SE, Temper Activation Rate

Rather you start the insults or someone else does, Two wrongs don't make a right.

Best thing you can do is continue to keep it civil. Let them fly off the deep end. If you're talking civil/calmly, The only thing they accomplish by raging is making themselves look childish and foolish.

Which is a magnificent way to discredit someone.

While i can agree to that Karbuncle, its also a great way to strengthen your cause, because while you show your fanatical lack of civility, you show that there are individuals whom feel very strongly about the subject, if everyone handled everything in a bureaucratic manner, then we would all be talking like Ben Stein and showing virtually no emotion. Additionally, lack of retaliation against an assault on something we feel strongly about could send off messages that we dont care enough and will just roll over and take it, which is not the case clearly. Two wrongs may not make a right, but there are very few cases where something is completely wrong, and those shades of gray do have bright sides afterall.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

While i can agree to that Karbuncle, its also a great way to strengthen your cause, because while you show your fanatical lack of civility, you show that there are individuals whom feel very strongly about the subject

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Perhaps, but it still undermines your position in the long run. It stifles constructive discussion and simply makes you look like someone who isn't really worth listening to because you're too busy being angry to take the time to actually sit down and discuss things.

When all you have to offer is rage and confrontation, you aren't worth listening to. That goes for both sides of the debate.

Deleted. Too late to the party to matter.

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

Temper on BLU would be absolutely shit-faced overpowered and you know it.

/slowclap

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Hahaha you think adding some DA to a job would overpower it hahahah

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

You guys can pop that BS all day, but the fact is that when you are on the front line poking and taking damage, you are not curing, hasting, slowing, paralyzing, blinding, diaing, addling, poisoning, refreshing etc. like you are supposed to be. Hell if you cast any of that shit you completely lose all dd efficiency and purpose on the front line due to constant casting. and thats not even taking into account that you are casting in swords now. Give it up and request that SE give us something that helps us with our enfeebling and buffs like they said they would. Quit being childish and trying to act like everyone needs to be doing that crap.

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SE has already made a stance that they are bulking up our melee. Talk about "give it up" and "acting childish." It's not a theory anymore, RDM melee is a play style preference for many Red Mages. If the numbers were so small and niche as you try to paint "us" out to be, there would be no melee boost. Period. The fact that they went as far as to give us gear, self-only spells, JA's, etc, should be more than enough for you mage-only fascists to take your heads out of your rears and leave the rest of us alone. It's a preference for crying out loud. Don't like it? Don't do it.

Some of us find RDM melee fun. Wow, let's fight about it.

Nobody is taking your staff away from you.

And really, I've been on the front lines melee'ing, curing, hasting, refreshing, dia'ing all day, just fine. Just because you put zero effort into something, if you don't lift a finger to make something out of it, of course it's going to be worthless to you.

Sorry Ray, but I gotta pick your post apart and reel you back in before you go over the deep end.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

SE has already made a stance that they are bulking up our melee. Talk about "give it up" and "acting childish."

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Valid

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Originally Posted by Rayik

It's not a theory anymore, RDM melee is a play style preference for many Red Mages. If the numbers were so small and niche as you try to paint "us" out to be, there would be no melee boost. Period.

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I challenge you(or the mage enthusiasts) to present evidence of these numbers. It's all hearsay and personal experiences with nothing substantive that we can point to and say "here is the exact divide within the community and X is clearly more popular than Y across all servers". Until we have that data, that argument cannot be made.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

The fact that they went as far as to give us gear, self-only spells, JA's, etc, should be more than enough for you mage-only fascists to take your heads out of your rears and leave the rest of us alone. It's a preference for crying out loud. Don't like it? Don't do it.

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Uncalled for.

Preference is a personal choice, it carries no weight of correctness or superiority or even viability. Someone could have a preference for wielding staves on Paladin but that doesn't mean that preference should be cultivated at the expense of development man-hours.

Asking people to stop heckling you, that I'm ok with. There's too much resentment and bitterness surrounding these discussions.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

Some of us find RDM melee fun. Wow, let's fight about it.

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Yes let's. On other forums this might be acceptable, but here we know the devs are listening and both camps have good reason to fear the other side getting the dev's ear because then the job will evolve with their input influencing the devs.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

Nobody is taking your staff away from you.

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No, but with the limited man-hours of a reduced development staff working on an old game, there is the very real fear of neglect, which is just as crippling.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

And really, I've been on the front lines melee'ing, curing, hasting, refreshing, dia'ing all day, just fine. Just because you put zero effort into something, if you don't lift a finger to make something out of it, of course it's going to be worthless to you.

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The problem is that aside from damage, Red Mage doesn't add much by being on the front lines and they can already add that damage in the form of nukes. Additionally to melee competently you have to give up a large chunk of inventory. Nukes provide respectable damage the same as melee, but do not suffer from the opportunity cost since a lot of the gear for nuking also functions for the rest of what Red Mage is already providing, thus offering more flexibility in gearing. The more flexibility you have in your gear, the more you can accomplish while on Red Mage.

Dangit Cid, I was on a roll! lol

I can't provide the numbers on exactly how many RDM's wanted melee boosts, but considering the absolute lethargy the dev team has had involving anything RDM related since before even Abyssea, the fact that they have taken the time to do something should show there was at least enough demand to grab their attention. Even the JP playerbase has been clamoring for it from what I hear(can't quote it, I can't read japanese). So, it's sort of just saying the existence of a sizable boost says how much of a demand there is. Getting new self-only spells that are specifically for melee(Temp, Gain-STR, DEX, etc) should tell you that there is indeed a sizable demand. Far more than some of the mage-only enthusiasts would lead you to believe.

And yes, nuking can provide a sizeable amount of damage, but how many nukes are you getting off while cycling through spells? And this just brings us back to the question of why even have a RDM in the party; if I want someone standing in the back nuking, I can think of a job I'd rather have, that can still provide cures and buffs /whm(BLM, anyone?).

It's situational; some mobs, magic damage from nuking is ineffective. Some mobs are weak to weapons(qutrubs, for example), so weapon damage would be more ideal I would think. Also, consider melee doesn't carry the casting time and mp cost that nuking does; I can still cure, buff, and enfeeble, with melee attacks slipping through in between(and during) the spells being cast.

Melee 100% of the time is not optimal, and isn't even what a lot of us are asking for.

And again, SE is already working on new and fixing old enfeebles. So again, nobody is taking your staff away from you.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

While i can agree to that Karbuncle, its also a great way to strengthen your cause, because while you show your fanatical lack of civility, you show that there are individuals whom feel very strongly about the subject, if everyone handled everything in a bureaucratic manner, then we would all be talking like Ben Stein and showing virtually no emotion. Additionally, lack of retaliation against an assault on something we feel strongly about could send off messages that we dont care enough and will just roll over and take it, which is not the case clearly. Two wrongs may not make a right, but there are very few cases where something is completely wrong, and those shades of gray do have bright sides afterall.

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Entirely too pessimistic point of view in my opinion, and a little unimaginative.

You can have a passionate, interesting, and serious discussion without dropping F-bombs, Calling eachother idiots, and raging like someone with Intermittent Explosive Disorder coming off their meds.

Theres a right way to debate your topic, and theres a wrong way. Needless anger? The wrong way. Just because you don't crack wise about someones mother during an argument doesn't mean your argument loses validity.

some times idiots just need to be told they are idiots.