Wake up, "Seekers" is failing

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Originally Posted by Alpheus

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So cram 3 years worth of events in time to do Delve while Delve is still current? Are you insane? And GEO and RUN are a gimmie for players like you and me who have kept current these past 3 years we're 15/15 in NNI so most of the fun pieces from there are taken care of there's no AF yet so we haven't needed to run around doing that stuff on top of random VW bodies or gear we got while that event was still popping.

So yes I agree with Sparthos there is a slight hint of a disingenuous tone. You cant go from stuck to ready to do Delve with 5 other people who are in the same boat as you AND still be ready to jump into a group in a week from now (as an example). It might be possible if it was 1 person getting geared by 5 other established players (like say a buddy came back from break or w/e) but your whole "Well just go wrangle some friends and lets get this done" advice while still the correct piece of advice comes with the caveat: "You probably won't finish in time by August when Tojil and Co become Old Hat."

That said I do agree with you, yours is the correct answer but it has its downsides, it isn't applicable to everyone because I assume once the time required is mentioned most people will become demotivated and deflated. Matsui and company would have to make serious adjustments (in some cases again) to make VW and salvage and NNI more "crammable" by players who are stuck: make VW lowmannable for drops and for salvage and NNI remove the cooldowns on entry. If Matsui is serious about having 10 years worth of content be the foundation for Delve then changes have to be made where all that is spammable and the fun part is that they don't have the limitations they did back when they first made Neo-Dyna.

They had to balance making it accessible while not crashing the currency demand market cuz Relics and the like were still in vogue and they repeated that balanced approach with Salvage cuz again they didnt want a flood of Alex. Now that we have confirmation that Delve weapons will have the last laugh (remember he said RMEs will get only 1 mulligan and then that's it) then who gives a crap if you can spam Salvage multiple times a day or what have you.

So for the players who are stuck it's a matter of convenience rather than difficulty dealing with content that has many restrictions in place for reasons that have now been rendered void.

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Some jobs benefit hugely form +2 empy gear still, which easy doable by yourself + a mule

NNI is nerfed to the point where its easy to do, but if you dont have 5 friends to do, its not the events fault but yours. Besides NNI gear isnt the best anymore in each slot at all.

Some gear is replaced by normal delve gear (not boss gear). There are plenty of sidegrades options you can take if you cant do one event.

Not to mention that the new colo gear comeing out next version update will help and skirmish 2.0 too, which are both lowman events.

Relic +2 augments can be done solo on almost any melee job that is /dnc.

However the biggest problem is that people dont know how to gear properly, going out all haste with zero accuracy isnt gonna help you much.... neither going out all accuracy with no haste at all.

Even if you follow the shopping lists easily available on sites like FFXIAH or BG you're still stuck needing gear from events that few people give a shit about anymore.

Gonna gather up the band and just farm a Murasamemaru np?

Empyrean +2 gear isn't whats being debated here because Abyssea by and large makes it stupid easy to access to win and get loot even if you have to fight mobs, get no procs and gather up +2 items one by one.

Salvage II got double plans because by and large the event gets little interest from the base. You can shout a while and offer the plans you don't want but chances are unless you find people to static with you, you're boned for a while. Legion? Same problem multiplied by 17 in addition to the extended period of time it takes to get Relics and beat ADLs if you aren't going to just print gil.

If Matsui wanted the gear ladder to work then completely tear down the old walls.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Even if you follow the shopping lists easily available on sites like FFXIAH or BG you're still stuck needing gear from events that few people give a shit about anymore.

Gonna gather up the band and just farm a Murasamemaru np?

Empyrean +2 gear isn't whats being debated here because Abyssea by and large makes it stupid easy to access to win and get loot even if you have to fight mobs, get no procs and gather up +2 items one by one.

Salvage II got double plans because by and large the event gets little interest from the base. You can shout a while and offer the plans you don't want but chances are unless you find people to static with you, you're boned for a while. Legion? Same problem multiplied by 17 in addition to the extended period of time it takes to get Relics and beat ADLs if you aren't going to just print gil.

If Matsui wanted the gear ladder to work then completely tear down the old walls.

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again for salvage II and Nyzul isle if you dont have 2-5 friends at hands that are willing to help you or gear along with you, its your own fault, thats what LSs are there for, and if your social LS cant provide that it fails honestly.

Legion can be done with like 12 people now with the new delve weapons (and no you dont need megaboss weapons). you would probably have the kill speed of pre legion nerf. So the option is there, make a shell!

18 people with new delve weapons and getting decked out on delve pritty much murder Legion now.

Voidwatch:
Sandy bastok and windurst can be done with as low as 6 people. you dont even need procs but you can bother if you want

Zilart and jeuno and upwards can be done with 12 people if you keep the NM at full strenght, EVEN LESS if you weaken them. Considering all you have additional is previous empy +2 gear etc and NQ delve weapons (non boss weapons).

This is of course assuming you have people that dont suck at their jobs

Damane as I said in my earlier post I agree with you on the course of action players who are stuck should take. I was just pointing out that that road has a lot of limitations placed on it arbitrarily to prevent flooding of in game items needed for legendary weapons. Those limitations at the same time hamper people being able to gear themselves up to contribute to delve bosses and the like and its a problem that'll hurt XI if it doesn't get fixed because right now if players are stuck in limbo between Delve Boss attempts or heck even coming up with a group for Delve Boss attempts then their only recourse is to unsub until SE nerfs the fights as SE has mentioned was their intention to do and losing players is never a good thing for a MMO because if that direction is taken to its logical end point then it will be a game populated only with the best of the best which while it sounds nice it'll leave the game barren and that'll be a damn shame.

Damane is spot on in all her post, she even goes as far as giving basic strategies... I have 2 good freinds that i constantly do salvageII/meebles/limbus/sky/aby and I recently joined a linkshell where members alos off to help when they can. My Linkshell has cleared all 3 delve fractures and spams 5/5 Tojil for points and gear. 1 clear tojil run is roughly 70k plasm... and we win 90 percent of the time.

Sparthos, I have only seen you talk about melle jobs, ever think about gearing up a mage job? Lvling geo and capping skill? making a stun set with ToM magic acc staff for stun? One of the reasons this game has lived for so long is that one character can lvl any job. I personally think everyone should have both mage and melle jobs as it makes them a well rounded player. I have great DD jobs and lvl'd rdm and sch because I found an ls that was needing those jobs, geared them above par and now I, schute, am vital player.

I'm gonna repeat it because it seems to be going over your heads still:

It doesn't matter how many guides you post.
It doesn't matter if you think people should have had the right jobs by now.
It doesn't matter if you think people should have had their gear up to snuff by now.
It doesn't matter if NNI is "Super Easy".
It doesn't matter if getting +2 gear for the new "Flavor of the week" job is Duoable.
It doesn't matter if "Anyone can build a relic in a few weeks".
It doesn't matter if VW is super easy with a PUG.
It doesn't matter if "some of the reive / skirmish gear is really good".
It doesn't matter if "This game should be all about 18 man content".
It doesn't matter if "Anyone can participate in delve".
It doesn't matter...

All that matters is that people either feel like they can't, or they just plain don't want to. Everyone here knows why they feel that way. Sitting around telling them to suck less or make more friends or writing a guide isn't going to change that fact because they know what they have to do and they don't want to do it. The game has to be changed to accommodate them or the game will die.

If your goal is to be the last guy left standing around scratching his head going "Pssshhhh... I don't know why all those noobs cancelled. This game is suuuuper easy. Psshhh whatever...".

Then by all means, keep telling the producer it is fine and telling the other players to suck it up. Otherwise, almost every event needs to be retooled to get people up to snuff for delve and delve itself needs to be retooled as well.

*and I have access to all that crap so save the personal attacks.

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Originally Posted by Schrute

Sparthos, I have only seen you talk about melle jobs, ever think about gearing up a mage job? Lvling geo and capping skill? making a stun set with ToM magic acc staff for stun? One of the reasons this game has lived for so long is that one character can lvl any job. I personally think everyone should have both mage and melle jobs as it makes them a well rounded player. I have great DD jobs and lvl'd rdm and sch because I found an ls that was needing those jobs, geared them above par and now I, schute, am vital player.

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http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9832/mhg3.jpg

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Originally Posted by Damane

Legion can be done with like 12 people now with the new delve weapons (and no you dont need megaboss weapons). you would probably have the kill speed of pre legion nerf. So the option is there, make a shell!

18 people with new delve weapons and getting decked out on delve pritty much murder Legion now.

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So what you're saying is use Delve weapons to clear Legion so you have the gear to get Delve weapons?

(This Post is not directed specifically at you, Any points that may be taken as such are coincidental :3)

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Then by all means, keep telling the producer it is fine and telling the other players to suck it up. Otherwise, almost every event needs to be retooled to get people up to snuff for delve and delve itself needs to be retooled as well..

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I agree with a lot of what you say, But saddly theres two sides to the gravy train with MMOs.

If we turn the flip side and make the game super dooper easy, Almost every one of the hardcore players will likely up and leave within in a few months due to having everything or being unsatisfied with the level of content they are receiving, because theres no challenge, and with no challenge there is no accomplishment. No one enjoys a victory when you've basically had god mode on the entire time... At least most players do not, i certainly feel it cheapens the experience.

Now, after that, with content bogged down to Mario levels, people who remain will breeze through and complete it at record speeds, which means SE will either have to pump out content much quicker, which is impossible, or you'll have periods of time where theres stagnation due to events being easy enough to clear and now theres nothing left to do. That or lower drops rates to match the difficulty, which in turn will cause people to complain, and blah blah you see the pattern.

Without Content difficulty, and with things being too easy, you create a rather mediocre game with no reward-feel that most gamers over the age of 8-14 want. Delve is designed to be for the more seasoned players, the ones who have gotten the good stuff and are looking for the gooder stuff. Its not suppose to be something you can step out of Abyssea after a Exp burn to 99 and win. The Producer has already said the Strategy we're using now, while workable, probably wont work on the next two, and that these mobs have behaviors you can learn and use different set ups to win.

And the thing is, with a lot of those types of people who "don't want too" or "feel like they can't", they aren't ignoring it cause of any reason the devs can fix, Its because they're lazy. They're comfortable being Lazy and will make excuses to support their laziness, rather it be blaming difficulty or "elitists", you can make the event accessible to Perle DD and people will still want it to be easier, and the proof is in the pudding, See: demands/Wants to make Abyssea easier.

In reality most people have no idea what they want, and I bet if they made the game easier and easier will find a new reason to complain or a new excuse to simply not do anything cause its too much effort to move their fingers across a keyboard and turn the gears in their head to form cognizant patterns of thought.

Theres enough mid-tier gear thats acceptable for players and could get them in a spot, the problem isn't the content, its the community and their demands for perfection, While this is acceptable as its entirely their choice how they spend their time and not yours, its not something the Devs can rightly fix, cause no matter how easy they make Delve, people will still shout for RMED DD, and Devs cannot fix that... Outside of maybe adding some easily craftable/obtainable "Level ~105" weapons that are weaker than Delve weapons but only slightly so.

Frankly, the jump between Reive/RME and Delve weapons are f**king stupid... Going from D:~60 dagger to DMG:90~100+ Is gd retarded, They need to add DMG:75~85 Weapons in there for mid-range. But that being said even if they do that, Its still unlikely the Playerbase will accept less than RMED... Which is pitiful but true, Almost all the blame falls on the community, not the Devs. (outside of them creating these weapons out of the blue)

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Originally Posted by Xantavia

So what you're saying is use Delve weapons to clear Legion so you have the gear to get Delve weapons?

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Do you read what I write? I said NON-megaboss delve weapons, which imho should be achievable by most people.... they dont even need to be maxed out on aguments or have any augments on them

with a little bit effort everyone can get the KI and farm the plasm to buy a delve weapon from the NPC.