Any new HNM coming?

Well if they locked the alliance from moment of claim given till all drops have dropped then there would be a lot less point in that...unless they really wanted to gear mules. Anyway having mules is something everyone shares these days, especially since Abyssea and I would rather this method and Square get more money from that to work on new FFXI content than some retarded bot maker get it.

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Originally Posted by Snaplin

This^^, lowering the re-spawn time won't make a difference but LS's who bot can claim more often. Poping once a day lets LS's be able to sit around and bot claim more then once. Suck it up and get better at claiming or don't camp is about all you can do.

Remember when Sandworm and Dark Ixion came out and everyone cheered SE on for such a good idea of a multi zone/Area pop NM? Hi2u Death spot scanner, no matter what SE comes up with there will always be a way to get an edge over the competition. ("???" Spawned HNM's?) There are bots that can trade a pop before your F8 Spam even clicks on it. Sorry but its one of those "Just deal with it situations. :/

On a Side note I do hope they bring HNM's back hell 30 min between each window means I can afk and get real life stuff done, I afk for 30 min in abyssea and my LS is on the opposite side of the zone while I'm getting face raped by some mob attacking me. I will agree tho windows like Tiamat, WTF was SE thinking?

Edit: To be honest SE prob. didn't think people would ally face camp HNM's who knows, Maybe they though LS's would mule there and race out. Can't be mad at them for other people having time on there hands. :/

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What I meant to say was if you want competition for mobs that drop the best gear in the game it's still there. It's just not your POS cockblock everyone for your giant epen competition.

At this point in the game's life anything that retains players, or brings back ones who are retired is a plus. For people who love abyssea for w/e reason there is plenty of that to go around. Have a blast in the 9 zones.

For people who like to camp HNM's give em a couple to go do what they do. Make them a true challenge, where claiming is not 96% of the difficulty. Make them a true challenge to a lvl 90 alliance. Toss in a couple seriously devastating tp moves that it does at random twice or so every 10 mins. PLEASE do not place them in an abyssea zone.

For people who want to PvP SE needs to revamp the system so it is easily accessible, and located at the very least in a major hub say WG. Place is damn near empty now. Make it completely optional with a feature to ignore all requests for PvP.

Those are 3 viable choices that appeal to a wide range of players both hard core, and casual. Engage in all three if that what makes you happy. If there is an option there you don't care for avoid it. This caters to everyone, and does not crush the life out of any one faction.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

New HNM should involve luck claiming AND intellect to kill it afterward. Now when i say intellect i mean something that requires every member of your party to be on the ball. A ??? NM like AV was a little extreme, everyone knew how to kill it but it required everyone to have a MDT set, be skilled at their job, ect. right now all most ppl are doing are crying because they scared of not claiming. Im sure the new BCNMs for KC/HKC will drop the stuff that the new HNM drop, only at a lower rate. But, this is only my speculation mind you.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

To me, yes it does, it means all my hard work keepin track of ToD/not giving up paid off. It took me years to get D ring, fighting against botters up till the day i got it. So yea its of much more value to me then an eponas ring.

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I'll have to say, of all the posts about 21 - 24 hour, single zone HNM's, yours seem the least informed as to what the HNM shells do. Even people in HNM's with bots pretty much wanted the old system to end. Because, it wasn't about luck. It was about who brought the most well-staggered set of bots to the zone. The only luck involved was when someone got lucky enough to beat out the bots. And, the HNM shells weren't impressed. They were chuckling because of someone's dumb luck. Honestly, taking years to get an item because you were losing to botters is as unimpressive as those who made all their claims through bots. So, if you're arguing to bring back that kind of HNM, you are in a true minority. Unless of course you're planning to run some bots this time. Otherwise, the bots will be back in force and you can lose to them for several more years.

p.s. - I never botted and even beat the bots on a couple occasions. But, I knew that it was dumb luck and laughed about it myself. The type of HNM you are arguing for should never return.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafein

For people who like to camp HNM's give em a couple to go do what they do. Make them a true challenge, where claiming is not 96% of the difficulty. Make them a true challenge to a lvl 90 alliance. Toss in a couple seriously devastating tp moves that it does at random twice or so every 10 mins. PLEASE do not place them in an abyssea zone.

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Oh please you sit there and say, "make it difficult" but fail to have any good or original ideas on how to do this. There 2 kinds of difficulty in games for the most part. First is gimmick and the second is attrition. Almost every encounter in a traditional RPG can be one or a combination of these 2 things.

For a gimmicky encounter it relies on it's surroundings, positioning, and other factors that are controlled usually by the player. Dark Ixion and Doomvoid versions of KA, Guirve, and Lambton are all gimmick based HNMs. Gimmick based encounters are as difficult as you want them to be. The problem is you learn the gimmick and the difficulty fades away.

Attrition was PW, literally inflict as much damage as possible on your players slowly killing them. This is very difficult to balance because as seen with PW players will just keep throwing PCs at the mob to hold it and slowly zerg it down. You make it too hard you end up with AV.

In short difficulty is only temporary on anything that can be killed. Making something more difficult just raises the number of players needed to take it down. This makes it harder to reward everyone in a fair way. Just having single item drops is a bad idea you're better off with point systems.

You could argue that reaction time is part of the difficulty but that's more part of gimmick like stunning Cerb's GoHs. This game would have to overhaul their combat massively to allow true action/reaction based gameplay.

TLDR: Difficulty is usually a fleeting feeling in an MMO because everything is repeated so much it becomes easy.


Finally on the heart of issue. Having free spawn NMs are fine as long you have every single reward on them able to be obtained at the exact same rate from an instanced version at the player's convenience. Having to live with your schedule centered around a game just to have a chance at the best gear nuts and pretty pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Orson

Oh please you sit there and say, "make it difficult" but fail to have any good or original ideas on how to do this. There 2 kinds of difficulty in games for the most part. First is gimmick and the second is attrition. Almost every encounter in a traditional RPG can be one or a combination of these 2 things.

For a gimmicky encounter it relies on it's surroundings, positioning, and other factors that are controlled usually by the player. Dark Ixion and Doomvoid versions of KA, Guirve, and Lambton are all gimmick based HNMs. Gimmick based encounters are as difficult as you want them to be. The problem is you learn the gimmick and the difficulty fades away.

Attrition was PW, literally inflict as much damage as possible on your players slowly killing them. This is very difficult to balance because as seen with PW players will just keep throwing PCs at the mob to hold it and slowly zerg it down. You make it too hard you end up with AV.

In short difficulty is only temporary on anything that can be killed. Making something more difficult just raises the number of players needed to take it down. This makes it harder to reward everyone in a fair way. Just having single item drops is a bad idea you're better off with point systems.

You could argue that reaction time is part of the difficulty but that's more part of gimmick like stunning Cerb's GoHs. This game would have to overhaul their combat massively to allow true action/reaction based gameplay.

TLDR: Difficulty is usually a fleeting feeling in an MMO because everything is repeated so much it becomes easy.


Finally on the heart of issue. Having free spawn NMs are fine as long you have every single reward on them able to be obtained at the exact same rate from an instanced version at the player's convenience. Having to live with your schedule centered around a game just to have a chance at the best gear nuts and pretty pathetic.

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Well if you had an instance version of a mob that drop the same item them could solve alot of isues. Hnms just promote to much botting and is un fair if said gear only drops from them. Give some alternative, make the gear drop faster, or make it much lower then 21 to 24 hour pluss will solve alot of problem. Find a decent solution to get people off the mobs for good so other people have there fair chance at the nm. Everyone deserves there fair chance to get the gear not just people who want to bot.

Theres no real point putting HNM drops in another BC unless BC is way harder, the best gear should be rare, not everyone should have it, the only ppl debating this are those who won't claim/lazy. They wan't everything equal so they wont look bad running around in old content equip while ppl who are good at the endgame scene have the new/good stuff.

Don't badmouth us bc you don't wanna spend time getting claims.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Theres no real point putting HNM drops in another BC unless BC is way harder, the best gear should be rare, not everyone should have it, the only ppl debating this are those who won't claim/lazy. They wan't everything equal so they wont look bad running around in old content equip while ppl who are good at the endgame scene have the new/good stuff.

Don't badmouth us bc you don't wanna spend time getting claims.

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That can be played both ways though. like say

"The only people arguing for it are those who want their expensive bots to be useful and can hoard the good gear over more casual players and feel pretty in town. "

But Both sides have multiple reason, and both can be looked at in a negative light, But I'm pretty sure everyone has their own reasons. Not everyone would stand by that reason i listed on your side of the argument, and not everyone on the other side would agree to your interpretation.

Ppl think crying "bots bots bots" means HNM are bad, I never botted, i claimed. So world spawns are bad bc most ppl can't cut it? Thats not fair to the hardcoe base. SE gonna cater to everyone, not just 1 group of ppl.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Ppl think crying "bots bots bots" means HNM are bad, I never botted, i claimed. So world spawns are bad bc most ppl can't cut it? Thats not fair to the hardcoe base. SE gonna cater to everyone, not just 1 group of ppl.

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That's the problem free spawn HNMs don't allow you to cater to both groups. If they could no HMN enthusiast would care if the equivalent gear could be obtained from else
where. Why shouldn't the instanced version have the best gear? See the problem is it's not about having both. Free spawn HNMs are based around exclusion not challenge. If you really think it is, why not make a retarded strong HNM that has a special title that you only get at a 10% drop rate? Don't lie all you care about is the gear and doing your best to keep it from others.

I've said before too but I'll say it again. The supposed hardcore player that you refer to is largely gone and even the few that still are around are the worst players to try and please. If SE wants to keep making money they need to keep releasing accessible content. It doesn't have to be dumbed down or stupidly easy but it has to be able to be done at the players leisure and with smaller groups.