Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

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Originally Posted by Byrth

You're either being sarcastic or need to look up the word succinctly.

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I don't think that word means what they think it means!

Please do not raise the minimum level to enter Abyssea.

I think it's great that new/returning players have a way to jump in and get their levels without taking forever to grind them out. I've seen a handful of new players over the past month or so and I think if they had to grind out the levels the old way, (like we've all done) it would be discouraging for them to continue playing. This way, they can get a job up and get to the fun stuff.

I've leeched 3 of my jobs in Abyssea - BRD and DNC from level 40ish, and SMN from level 57. While SMN and BRD were easy for me to "learn" since I've always had mage jobs, DNC was new to me. When I hit 60 I took DNC to Campaign and did quite a few battles to help me get familiar with my JA's, macros and the job itself. I had also read everything I could on proper gear sets and I asked ls members for advice. My dagger was already capped from my RDM, so I didn't have to worry about skill ups. Then, back to Abyssea for more exp. Ding, 90.

I'm lucky enough to be in a ls that will have one person invite people out to leech doing a few Dominion pages, or go as a small party when an AF item is needed from a chest. No one is judgmental about anyone leeching and we all have fun doing it.

I had only intended to level my DNC as a sub, because I was fond of saying that I only level jobs that keep me away from the mob. Now that I've leveled DNC, I find myself enjoying stabbing mobs up close and personal - and that will probably lead me to level another melee job. In my case, being able to leech opened up an entirely different direction with my character that I had intended.

I don't understand why some of you who want it increased are so rabid about it. How I get my exp doesn't affect you. You'll say it makes me a bad player, but in reality, there are bad players that leveled the "old way" as well. I take the time to research and gear my job. If by some slim-to-none chance we ever end up in a party together, and you don't want me there because I leeched my job, then that's your choice. People don't like being judged for what gear they do/don't wear, or if they don't gear swap or whatever. Those who have leeched shouldn't be judged either.

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It, in fact, made a very large percentage of players feel like they just wasted the last 5 or 7 years of their lives.

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That is because mindlessly grinding is essentially wasting your lives.

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Any hint of "fun" that came with the old grinding style will be gone knowing theres an easier way now. Nobody liked the grinding

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But we should re-enforce it just to cater to a small minority's nostalgia despite your acknowledgement that nobody likes it? I dunno about you, but putting a system in a game that nobody enjoys doesn't sound like a smart idea.

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But you earned your spot in end-game

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Earn your spot in endgame by not sucking and being good at playing rather than hitting a magical number and still being gimp as all hell (as a lot of people were).

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Missions had level caps that grew as you went deeper into the storyline. Tons of quests, whose rewards were not yet useless, were available. And don't forget crafting.

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Missions that often were extremely difficult if you didn't have specific setups (CoP) - I hope you're levelling the right kind of jobs. What quest rewards are useful? Crafting is (largely) level-independent also.

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Most gear from 1-30 and next to all gear from 30-75 is useless. Thats hundreds, maybe thousands, of item dat files gone to waste. Hundreds of nms that are useless to kill, and even if nostalgia brings you to hunt one down, nobody cares but you. Area's that are hardly ever visited. Endless hours spent crafting which is now a useless trade. Countless quests nobody will ever do, because the rewards are useless.

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Most gear from 1-30 and 30-75 was always useless. Most NMs were always useless to kill and it was often silly to camp an NM for a low drop rate item that you can outlevel faster than you can camp it. Most areas were hardly ever visited. Crafting is not useless, just don't suck at it. Most quests have always been useless.

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A couple weeks ago I went online and read through all the stone monuments for the Crawler's Nest map, followed that sad and heartfelt storyline, and it almost brought a tear to my eye. I won't be too surprised if not many of you have ever heard of that quest, and impressed if you have. Is there any reason to go to Crawler's Nest anymore? Are there people that don't even know that it is an area you can go to?

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Next to nobody was bothering to do those quests even before Abyssea.

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We think it will change this game back to the game we used to play. Unfortunately, that game is long gone.

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The game you used to play never existed. You're looking at it through rose-tinted glasses.

Gear (DD perspective just to give an example):

1-30: gear doesn't really matter except in extreme cases. Bone => Beetle etc if you really care.
30-55: Acc rings, STR rings depending, some jobs get the odd nice piece (notably MNK/SAM/NIN) otherwise...
55-71: Haubergeon and Jaridah gear with the odd other piece here and there.
72-75: Dusk and endgame gear.

Even if you flesh out your job with loads of different sets early on, 95% of gear is absolutely useless. Always has been.

What NMs were useful to camp? LL, VE, Mee Deggi, Fuma Kyahan guy, Mysticmaker Profblix and maybe a couple of others? Most NMs have always been pretty much useless.

I'm not sure how to phrase this without coming across as pompous, but I've been on the sidelines of this conversation for a while and I'm finally succumbing to the urge to address or point out some things.

Before Abyssea content got released, I was running out of things to do. I was in a Dynamis shell, did some endgamey things not counting HNM, and basically my time was spent either logging on for an event or logging out and doing something else. I didn't so much "play" the game as I spent time there then left due to obligations. I had something like... six? Seven? Seventy-five jobs. They were all for the most part decently geared, though my ninja was probably lacking quite a bit. Regardless.

Level cap to ninety-nine got announced and I was simultaneously excited and worried. Grinding jobs to cap was a tedious process, and while they were all done the "hard" way (which is slang for "Get into a colibri party" with friends or level sync to colibri parties in Ronfaure or merit on colibri) I wasn't looking forward to those hours being sloughed through in order to bring my jobs back to usability.

Being allowed to quickly bring my jobs up from underleveled was a pleasant distraction before the real meat of the Abyssea expansion: Acquiring gear. Leveling became a formality before the actual lure. I think that's where we are disconnecting.

People who oppose leeching, to generalize and use a stereotype, so forgive me, are the sorts who end up in pick-up or shout parties, belonging to a social shell or a shell without a very dedicated core of work. Leveling a job for prestige now is a dead concept; it has been a dead concept for years now. Maat's Cap is no longer a status icon. Penalizing people who are trying to quickly get subjobs leveled, or hell, even take their ninety Red Mage and turn it into a ninety White Mage isn't a bad thing. People quickly bringing up Monk or Ninja to be able to tank/survive/experiment isn't a bad thing.

As long as people have their job skills (I mean this literally, referring to the numbers on their Status button) leveled there's no harm or no foul. People complaining about leeching are perhaps upset they're doing all the "work" in a party, then? I can understand that to a degree, but if those people don't like it, they are plenty capable of shouting for a party and not inviting a key mule.

I'm losing track of my points here because I've been sitting on this stuff for what feels like years now.

Removing the ability to enter Abyssea before level seventy won't fix anything. As I'm sure has been mentioned previously, taking the experience points and zones away will only lead back to what was the dilemma before: Sync to colibri at Ronfaure, in Wajoam, or in Bhaf. Those camps cannot support large numbers of people; Abyssea can. Those camps don't even prove anything as far as being "gimp" goes; I know plenty of people who got their Maat's Caps when seventy-five was the cap by syncing to Ronfaure. Gimped skills are gimped even if there's only ten levels of difference. To top this off, those camps don't bring in even a fifth of the experience an Abyssea party can rake in. Being supported by a single healer and puller, I was able to bring in something like ninety-two-thousand experience an hour while my shell, who had recently helped me complete my level eighty-five Ukonvasara relaxed on vent. They did me a kindness, I did them one. There's nothing wrong with give and take.

The level thirty cap works. People who want job levels with always take the path of least resistance, don't misjudge the proposed cap as anything other than a problem that will lead us back to overcrowded camps that are the most popular.

I'll try to think of anything I missed because I know I undoubtedly did. Also, Unaisis, while writing this, your banner kept unnerving me because of the horrific curve of the face. I lol'd all the same, though.

For the sake of civil discourse, let anyone commenting do so amicably.

Edit: I apologize for the walls of text.

Although, after I get a few more jobs to abyssea that I would like to try, I intend to; while I'm out skilling them and gearing them up properly, killing older NMs with friends. Just for fun.

This is possibly because getting the jobs I want/need are a week to two week adventure instead of two years. <.<

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Originally Posted by Byrth

You're either being sarcastic or need to look up the word succinctly.

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Thank you I looked up the word and found that I had used the wrong word - I have edited my post. I'm sure my meaning must have been clear however.

Wow, I left earlier in the morning for a doctor's appointment then come back for 15~ pages of fun. Pretty much my conclusion about Krystal:

A player who hasn't actually done any endgame activities and doesn't know how to cope when tons of people have much easier access to it. Probably was also going for Maat's cap too until it became lolz. I bet she doesn't gear swap either.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

I don't think anyone can disagree that the addition of Abyssea areas (including raising the level cap altogether) changed the game completely. It, in fact, made a very large percentage of players feel like they just wasted the last 5 or 7 years of their lives.

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As someone who has played since the NA release and has spent a lot of time doing sky, Dynamis, kings, sea, and Salvage I have to tell you that I do not feel my time has been wasted. I enjoyed those things when I did them and I enjoyed working on and receiving the gear that I did. It was time, however, for something new, especially with the level cap increase. I will happily work on all the new gear that has made my old, hard earned gear obsolete and be happy that I have the opprotunity to work on new things.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

All the arguments that are stating "Nobody is stopping you from leveling the old way" are just silly. Any hint of "fun" that came with the old grinding style will be gone knowing theres an easier way now.

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No one is stopping you from leveling the old way if you want. Find people who are of a like mind and go for it. Just don't try to stop other people leveling a different way if they so choose.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

And when you finally reach 75... There's a sense of accomplishment that comes with it, however, and it isn't just about feeling good about yourself. It's also not about "bragging rights". But you earned your spot in end-game, and everyone in the end-game around you also earned their spot. That brings trust, that brings partnership...

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You never earnt a spot in an endgame shell because you had a level 75, at least not a good one. You generally had to prove that you could play your job, or at least were willing to learn how to play your job.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

And lets not forget that the old way of playing wasn't just boring leveling until end game... There was a ton of stuff to do even though you weren't 75 yet. Missions had level caps that grew as you went deeper into the storyline. Tons of quests, whose rewards were not yet useless, were available. And don't forget crafting.

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Most people I talk to hate doing quests and missions. Personally, I do as many as possible. I keep a list of the ones I've done and the ones I've yet to do. Leveling to cap slow or fast really has no bearing on whether or not you do these things.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

On the same note as nobody enjoying grinding, nobody enjoyed losing at missions either. But EVERYONE had the same opportunity and EVERYONE had the ability to beat those missions, no matter how many times they failed. And once you beat that mission, ooooh... I remember how long CoP 2-5 took me back when... It felt SO GOOD to get that out of the way, finally! The difficulty gave me a reason to stay with it and keep trying, and if at any point I felt like I had accomplished all the content I wanted to... Then it was time to start building up another 75 to be more prepared for the next batch of content.

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Everyone still has the same opprotunity to do them.

The changes to things like CoP don't really have anything to do with the topic of the level minimum in Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

People like Krystal and myself miss those days, and miss that game. I don't want to turn of FFVII and get myself to the end side quests in the amount of time it used to take me to get out of the first city. I don't expect or want that game to change, and I didn't expect or want FFXI to change either. But it did, and now we have to roll with it. Yes, our arguments are fueled by nostalgia 90% of the time... But can you blame us? Logging in is literally depressing for me now (which is why I stopped logging in for now).

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I like that the game keeps evolving and changing. If it stayed stale and never changed I would probably stop playing because it would be boring. I like the curve balls SE throws at us. It's either adapt or die basically.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

The quests and the gear used to immerse us in the game. The combination of level sync and abyssea's mass exp made so much gear useless. Most gear from 1-30 and next to all gear from 30-75 is useless. Thats hundreds, maybe thousands, of item dat files gone to waste. Hundreds of nms that are useless to kill, and even if nostalgia brings you to hunt one down, nobody cares but you. Area's that are hardly ever visited. Endless hours spent crafting which is now a useless trade. Countless quests nobody will ever do, because the rewards are useless.

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As I mentioned above, I have a lot of pre-Abyssea gear. I like being able to go for new stuff. I still even go for old stuff just cause it's there to be gotten.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

A couple weeks ago I went online and read through all the stone monuments for the Crawler's Nest map, followed that sad and heartfelt storyline, and it almost brought a tear to my eye. I won't be too surprised if not many of you have ever heard of that quest, and impressed if you have. Is there any reason to go to Crawler's Nest anymore? Are there people that don't even know that it is an area you can go to? You can call me weak, or sentimental, or a girl, or whatever, but its sad to me. I loved this game and the world it brought me into, and had some of the best times within it.

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Abyssea is not stopping you from doing quests.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

Level cap going to 99 and exp being so easy to come by just doesn't sit well with people that have been around a long time. That's just the way it is. There is no use arguing about it. SE had their reasons to do what they did and the people that enjoy it are playing an entirely different game that we used to love. That's all. I think I might start an online journal. I need an outlet and apparently I'm using this forum as one right now. Krystal... I'm sorry but you may need to quit FFXI, or you might never be happy.

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I have found that most old timer players welcome the Abyssea changes to the game because they freshen up the game. There are a few people who dislike it, but in my experience they are few and far between. Most of the protest seems to come from casual post-PS2 release players who don't seem to realise that Abyssea was designed to help casuals be able to participate in more events and get more things done.

Inflammatory insights into someone's character's...erm... character aside, that was something I forgot to comment on.

A lot of the game's population, at least as far as I know, didn't do much "endgame" outside of the entry-level stuff, like Dynamis and Sea/Sky. When experience and current-endgame crashed into the same zones together with Abyssea, I think a lot of people didn't know how to handle that. On one hand, experience! On the other, competition with the allegedly-elitist endgamers!

There's nothing wrong or bad about high-end play, and suddenly having to share playgrounds made a lot of ruckus between the different crowds.

i dont think the old way is bad. plus they double exp in the old places so people would start to lvl up there again. i wouldnt put it pass SE to change abyssea enter to 75. i would totally lol if they did

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Originally Posted by Lyall

A lot of the game's population, at least as far as I know, didn't do much "endgame" outside of the entry-level stuff, like Dynamis and Sea/Sky. When experience and current-endgame crashed into the same zones together with Abyssea, I think a lot of people didn't know how to handle that. On one hand, experience! On the other, competition with the allegedly-elitist endgamers!

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I think you're right. I even knew some end game people who were upset about Abyssea cutting into the traditional end game linkshell schedule when Abyssea first came out. They couldn't understand why no one wanted to go "help" at Dynamis or Einherjar anymore. It took a few weeks but they're all on the bandwagon now.

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Originally Posted by Chrianna

Thank you I looked up the word and found that I had used the wrong word - I have edited my post. I'm sure my meaning must have been clear however.

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Sorry, sarcasm doesn't come through well on the internet so I couldn't be sure.

Double exp at colibri north / MMJ would still only be 50k, 60k an hour. As might have been missed in Lyall's gigantic post, 92k an hour with just a WAR and WHM for DD, on my leeching DRK and several others. Would be double that if we actually had a full party killing.

Point is, nothing SE can ever do to raw exp gain will change the fact that abyssea is the best source of exp in this game. Not because mobs give 600, 650 exp a kill, but because they respawn in 30 seconds, instead of 5-15 minutes. Doubling exp will make the 1-30 grind much less painful, but again, if the level restriction was raised to X in abyssea, that would just mean people grind level sync'd lesser colibri/colibri/greater colibri until X level.

I, for one, have been sick of colibri since about halfway through WotG, having leveled 2 entire jobs on them and merited 4 others. But I guess all these people arguing for Abyssea to be high-capped have more fun grinding colibri for weeks to get to 75 (90), instead of 4-7 abyssea sessions, some skillups, and then playing the actual meat of the game with a shiny new job.

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Originally Posted by Ikari

Point is, nothing SE can ever do to raw exp gain will change the fact that abyssea is the best source of exp in this game.

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50x exp outside abyssea would more than do it.

Well yea, but then you would kill a level 0 bunny in ronfaure and ding level 5, and I don't think that's quite something SE would do. That kind of exp gain and the question of "Why even have levels below cap?" becomes worth asking.

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Originally Posted by Ikari

Well yea, but then you would kill a level 0 bunny in ronfaure and ding level 5, and I don't think that's quite something SE would do. That kind of exp gain and the question of "Why even have levels below cap?" becomes worth asking.

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Those rabbits are level -1 actually. And i already asked thatg question.

There's still a certain amount of work that goes into a job, especially the first 30 levels to get to abyssea, and having a halfway competent abyssea group so you don't gouge your own eyeballs out. A full-bore abyssea cleave party can pull 200k+ an hour, which most certainly makes levels meaningless, but the average pickup group isn't anywhere near that speed. I think that's the reason why SE isn't just handing levels out like candy, because there's still a huge difference between a competent, geared party, and the proverbial doonz pickup (that happens to be inside abyssea).

That's why I don't think it's a question worth asking yet, low-end exp is still slow. There's still a 'penalty' to having an incompetent group, and until that's gone, level progression has meaning.

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Originally Posted by Kuishen

Oh look another thread with the exact same thing in it...

Raen and Rog are entirely correct. This whole "RETURN TO THE OLD WAYS" attitude needs to go away, the old ways sucked, stop asking for them back.

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I half agree, I never did like old EXP parties, but as I posted on BST, I loved it when people would fight over HNM's via MPK. It was hectic and exciting!
I loved the old mechanics of the game, just not the whole 5k an hour thing.

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Originally Posted by Nattack

I half agree, I never did like old EXP parties, but as I posted on BST, I loved it when people would fight over HNM's via MPK. It was hectic and exciting!
I loved the old mechanics of the game, just not the whole 5k an hour thing.

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I think most of us say that we loved the old mechanics. I too look back on those times fondly. I'm not upset, however, about the changes. I'm looking forward to more.

It seems the only people who want the level cap raised are people that have been playing for a long time and are /pout. It's time to get over it. "This took me forever to get and they got it in one day". In my opinion you can either play a job well or you can't. It doesn't matter if you have been playing a job for 4 years and someone got it in 1 day to 75. If you are a good player it only takes 1 day to realize what needs to be done. And

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If people loved levelling the old way so much, they would.

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this ^

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Originally Posted by Cyx

It seems the only people who want the level cap raised are people that have been playing for a long time and are /pout. It's time to get over it. "This took me forever to get and they got it in one day". In my opinion you can either play a job well or you can't. It doesn't matter if you have been playing a job for 4 years and someone got it in 1 day to 75. If you are a good player it only takes 1 day to realize what needs to be done. And

this ^

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I agree with everything in this post. My only problem is pointing out that the OP of this thread and the ringleader of this "raise the abyssea cap" nonsense is a guy that started playing this game after WoG release. So its not only oldschool players who are complaining, but also noobs who think that lvling in the lvl-sync generation makes them "oldschool".

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Originally Posted by Cyx

It doesn't matter if you have been playing a job for 4 years and someone got it in 1 day to 75. If you are a good player it only takes 1 day to realize what needs to be done.

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False.

I began playing back in '06 and I started off leveling DRK as my main. Throughout parties I didn't know much so I simply assumed my job was to do as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time possible regardless of how much MP it took to keep me alive. This, of course, meant Souleater + Last resort whenever it was up. I also had absolutely NO knowledge of gear swaps, haste builds, etc and I simply distributed attack, accuracy, and strength evenly throughout all of my gear. It wasn't until about level 45 when I realized how wrong I was playing my job.

Now how did I figure out what I was doing was wrong? Was it through sitting around and leeching till I was 75? Hell no. I learned solely through partying with other people the do's and don'ts of this game.

If I began playing this game during this Abyssea era, then I have no doubt that I would be level 90 within a week and would still be spamming souleater, last resort, and blood weapon at every opportunity. I would still have one set of armor and I would be missing, attacking slowly, and whiffing weapon skills often.

70 is perfect because it's around the level where exp begins slowing down as most 70 camps are the same places as 75 meripo camps except much slower. It gives people ample time to learn how to play their classes effectively, shows mages how to use their MP efficiently instead of spamming the highest cure they have available (what I'm seeing nowadays from mages) and prevents nubs like Nature from ending up reaching max level because back when I played, if you "had your own playstyle" and decided to never gearswap, you'd be infamous and there would be no parties easily. This would essentially force those kinds of players to begin playing efficiently and stop hindering parties.

Tl;DR version: I support this.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

False.

I began playing back in '06 and I started off leveling DRK as my main. Throughout parties I didn't know much so I simply assumed my job was to do as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time possible regardless of how much MP it took to keep me alive. This, of course, meant Souleater + Last resort whenever it was up. I also had absolutely NO knowledge of gear swaps, haste builds, etc and I simply distributed attack, accuracy, and strength evenly throughout all of my gear. It wasn't until about level 45 when I realized how wrong I was playing my job.

Now how did I figure out what I was doing was wrong? Was it through sitting around and leeching till I was 75? Hell no. I learned solely through partying with other people the do's and don'ts of this game.

If I began playing this game during this Abyssea era, then I have no doubt that I would be level 90 within a week and would still be spamming souleater, last resort, and blood weapon at every opportunity. I would still have one set of armor and I would be missing, attacking slowly, and whiffing weapon skills often.

70 is perfect because it's around the level where exp begins slowing down as most 70 camps are the same places as 75 meripo camps except much slower. It gives people ample time to learn how to play their classes effectively, shows mages how to use their MP efficiently instead of spamming the highest cure they have available (what I'm seeing nowadays from mages) and prevents nubs like Nature from ending up reaching max level because back when I played, if you "had your own playstyle" and decided to never gearswap, you'd be infamous and there would be no parties easily. This would essentially force those kinds of players to begin playing efficiently and stop hindering parties.

Tl;DR version: I support this.

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There aren't many new players and most new players are people coming back from quitting and didn't get their char back.

Your entire argument is this: Well it took me a while to figure out what I was doing wrong, that must mean it will take everybody else a while, exping fast is bad.

Assuming everybody doesn't do the research you didn't do is a stupid thing to base your argument on.

I wonder if this thread will become as popular as the cheesecake.

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Originally Posted by Kuishen

Assuming everybody doesn't do the research you didn't do is a stupid thing to base your argument on.

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this ^

AND you took a section out of my comment and replied based on that. If you notice I was only talking about players that have been around for a while. I was not talking about players that started 2 months ago. I said

"It seems the only people who want the level cap raised are people that have been playing for a long time and are /pout. It's time to get over it. "This took me forever to get and they got it in one day"."

ggthough~

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

False.

I began playing back in '06 and I started off leveling DRK as my main. Throughout parties I didn't know much so I simply assumed my job was to do as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time possible regardless of how much MP it took to keep me alive. This, of course, meant Souleater + Last resort whenever it was up. I also had absolutely NO knowledge of gear swaps, haste builds, etc and I simply distributed attack, accuracy, and strength evenly throughout all of my gear. It wasn't until about level 45 when I realized how wrong I was playing my job.

Now how did I figure out what I was doing was wrong? Was it through sitting around and leeching till I was 75? Hell no. I learned solely through partying with other people the do's and don'ts of this game.

If I began playing this game during this Abyssea era, then I have no doubt that I would be level 90 within a week and would still be spamming souleater, last resort, and blood weapon at every opportunity. I would still have one set of armor and I would be missing, attacking slowly, and whiffing weapon skills often.

70 is perfect because it's around the level where exp begins slowing down as most 70 camps are the same places as 75 meripo camps except much slower. It gives people ample time to learn how to play their classes effectively, shows mages how to use their MP efficiently instead of spamming the highest cure they have available (what I'm seeing nowadays from mages) and prevents nubs like Nature from ending up reaching max level because back when I played, if you "had your own playstyle" and decided to never gearswap, you'd be infamous and there would be no parties easily. This would essentially force those kinds of players to begin playing efficiently and stop hindering parties.

Tl;DR version: I support this.

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Or you could have taken a couple hours and done some research on the job. If you jump into anything with no forethought, chances are you're going to do the wrong thing. Spending 3-4 hours reading through DRK forums and talking to players that already have experience would have had the same effect that countless days of trial and error taught you.

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Originally Posted by Kuishen

There aren't many new players and most new players are people coming back from quitting and didn't get their char back.

Your entire argument is this: Well it took me a while to figure out what I was doing wrong, that must mean it will take everybody else a while, exping fast is bad.

Assuming everybody doesn't do the research you didn't do is a stupid thing to base your argument on.

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Again, false. On Valefor I have a friend list of about 20~ brand new players and I've only been back for about 2 weeks. What do they all have in common? They're all level 65+ with god awful gear (I.E DRKs wearing Scorpion Harness). What do most of them have in common? They have no idea how to beat maat.

There are WHMs and RDMs meleeing in parties BLM just spamming nukes and Nins maining GK's. It's ridiculous.

Your attempt to oversimplify my post is noted, but you're doing it wrong. Most new players have no clue about resources such as ffxiclopedia, bluegartr, etc. until told told about it by higher ups and many of them have to learn things on the fly. If you spend all your time leeching in an Abyssea party, you're going to be the same noob you were when you began playing the game, you're just going to be level 90.

I'm not a cranky vet who thinks that everyone should have it as hard as I did, I just think that lowbies should have to learn how to play their classes properly before being able to leech and that people who don't want to level in Abyssea and want to party the old school way should be able to. This suggestion addresses both of those problems.

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Originally Posted by Cyx

this ^

AND you took a section out of my comment and replied based on that. If you notice I was only talking about players that have been around for a while. I was not talking about players that started 2 months ago. I said

"It seems the only people who want the level cap raised are people that have been playing for a long time and are /pout. It's time to get over it. "This took me forever to get and they got it in one day"."

ggthough~

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And what I'm saying is that not everyone is a returning vet, and everyone should not be treated as such.

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Originally Posted by Ezikiel

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<Congratulations!>

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

False.

...

Wall o text.

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You assume that everyone is going to take as long as you to get the hang of things.

It doesn't work that way.

P.S. bind sysrq screenshot bmp hide

Says in a voice sounding like the Grinch from the Grinch who stole Christmas movie: Is this thread STILL LIVING?!

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Originally Posted by Ica

You assume that everyone is going to take as long as you to get the hang of things.

It doesn't work that way.

P.S. bind sysrq screenshot bmp hide

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I take it you take pride in your ignorance by not reading my post and replying to it with something that I already covered in said post?

Yeah, you're cool.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

I take it you take pride in your ignorance by not reading my post and replying to it with something that I already covered in said post?

Yeah, you're cool.

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Orrrrrrrrr you could have posted your reply while I was replying.

Way to look like a tool.

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Originally Posted by Ica

Orrrrrrrrr you could have posted your reply while I was replying.

Way to look like a tool.

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You posted about 7~ minutes after I posted mine so I assumed you didn't.

You are correct, though.

Can anyone recap whats going on in this thread? this last page has nothing but people trolling each other.

The previous page has a bunch of false info in it. This thread seems like its still full of people afraid of change.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

You posted about 7~ minutes after I posted mine so I assumed you didn't.

You are correct, though.

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I ran to get my dinner, and left the window open to reply and didn't submit it until after. lolz

To address a point of yours though, if these newbies have no idea how to use the wiki, bg, etc, are they really going to find themselves in a leech party? If they're as helpless as you're making them out to be, chances are they're not starting their own abyssea parties or friends with the type of people who'd let them afk leech.

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Originally Posted by Ica

I ran to get my dinner, and left the window open to reply and didn't submit it until after. lolz

To address a point of yours though, if these newbies have no idea how to use the wiki, bg, etc, are they really going to find themselves in a leech party? If they're as helpless as you're making them out to be, chances are they're not starting their own abyssea parties or friends with the type of people who'd let them afk leech.

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Hopefully they don't use the wiki job guides, those are junk.

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Originally Posted by Nepharite

Can anyone recap whats going on in this thread? this last page has nothing but people trolling each other.

The previous page has a bunch of false info in it. This thread seems like its still full of people afraid of change.

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OP claims they are a butthurt oldschool player who doesnt like abyssea. Wants people to go back to the way exp used to work. After page after page of trolling people, OP admits to being a noob who only started playing after WoG release and has no idea what he is talking about. OP complains about being repeatedly trolled and dissapears to make their 6th or so thread on this same topic, thinking that people wont follow.

I hate it when people use the term "old school player." It usually means they sucked back in the day and suck more now that the game has progressed past their archaic ways.

Yeah cause lets start exping again in moon, that was fun. Better yet sky was awesome exp. Do you guys remember how kick ass Bibiki Bay was? Love killing me some dhamels and goblins all day. [/sarcasm]

Idk. When I ran into new players and when they don't know how to gear their jobs, they usually ask. There are always people who are willing to help players that ask for help on gearing for a job.