Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

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Originally Posted by Gunit

Well lets get back on topic what are the reasons to raise the level cap to enter abyssea?

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From what I can tell Krystal wants getting a job to cap to be a bragging right again because it would be hard to do for the majority of the grinding to cap.

Edit: Oops not hard but tedious, since it was never hard to EXP.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

no...i am asking it to be locked. because this thread is long overdue derailed.

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Asking it to be locked after threatening a cyber-attack on another website is unethical. It's almost like you're trying to hide your comments now.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

no...i am asking it to be locked. because this thread is long overdue derailed.

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Right. As long as you were able to get your flames and cyber threats in before the lock it's okay. Once you've joined in, you lose the right to request a lock. This thread survived 25 pages of Starcade. I doubt it's going anywhere.

None of your reasons have any merit.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

From what I can tell Krystal wants getting a job to cap to be a bragging right again because it would be hard to do for the majority of the grinding to cap.

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Is that why he wants an increase? Since when did leveling a job to cap ever give people bragging rights? Maybe in the first couple of months the game was released to North America...but that was almost eight years ago.

I think he has a very odd view of what gives him, or anyone, bragging rights. Mostly I think that bragging rights come from doing events after you've leveled to cap. Perhaps he only has one or two jobs to cap and he hasn't had the chance to do much besides leveling yet? I hope he gets into a good linkshell and can experience more of what the game has to offer him.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Right. As long as you were able to get your flames and cyber threats in before the lock it's okay. Once you've joined in, you lose the right to request a lock. This thread survived 25 pages of Starcade. I doubt it's going anywhere.

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already made the request for a lock.^^

/inb4locked

And so ends the rebellion against the Abyssea~

Im sorry to say none of us have room to talk about been able to only get your view or aka flames comments out. From what i've read so far is alot of im right your wrong it people opinions on stuff people take it to a whole different level then it should be.

An opinion is a subjective statement or thought about an issue or topic, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. An opinion may be supported by an argument, although people may draw opposing opinions from the same set of facts. Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented. However, it can be reasoned that one opinion is better supported by the facts than another by analysing the supporting arguments.

An opinion may be the result of a person's perspective, understanding, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. In casual use, the term opinion may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs

Wouldn't be so bad for it to be locked. That would just mean that the thread asking to lower the minimum would be the one people discuss this matter in. It's obviously the more sensible thread.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

i wonder...how long would it take a few friends of mine to crash that little website of yours you got going there.

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didn't read taht lame excuse since i stop chating on mIRC....

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Originally Posted by HFX7686

Wouldn't be so bad for it to be locked. That would just mean that the thread asking to lower the minimum would be the one people discuss this matter in. It's obviously the more sensible thread.

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I totally did not realize that. Yes, I dare say I don't mind if this thread gets locked. Of course, we know Krystal is already planning to make a new thread with lots of caps lock, bold, font size changes and font color changes in the OP to replace this thread; but it will probably just get locked by the GMs or deleted like 2 of his previous threads on the matter.

FACT: 30 cap for abyssea is fine.

FACT: if 30 cap is fine, 1 cap is fine too since both levels contribute the same for the event.

OPINION: Krystal is a troll and should be banned for threatening a cyber attack on a fansite because they disagree with him.

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

FACT: 30 cap for abyssea is fine.

FACT: if 30 cap is fine, 1 cap is fine too since both levels contribute the same for the event.

OPINION: Krystal is a troll and should be banned for threatening a cyber attack on a fansite because they disagree with him.

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banning me eh? might be a blessing them doing that...that way i don't have any reason to come back and see a bunch of lazy players who want easy exp everytime i check the forums...

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Originally Posted by Krystal

banning me eh? might be a blessing them doing that...that way i don't have any reason to come back and see a bunch of lazy players who want easy exp everytime i check the forums...

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Look who's resorted to name-calling now.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

banning me eh? might be a blessing them doing that...that way i don't have any reason to come back and see a bunch of lazy players who want easy exp everytime i check the forums...

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I thought we already established that I was a credible, non-lazy source.

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Originally Posted by Wojo

A low level abyssea would be cool. One specifically designed for lvl 10-30.

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That wont solve the problem, only make it worse, Abyssea is the new endgame, or it was supposed to be. It is one of the reasons Dynamis is getting it's update. SE needs to do one of two things, raise the cap of Abyssea to 65 or 70, or change the way EXP is earned outside Abyssea so that it is at least some what comparable.
As much as I don't like this crazy fast leveling, I would hate it even more if it became nothing but Abyssea Online. ;p

................on a side note... please do no lump Krystal in with others that have my opinion....... please -.-

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Originally Posted by HFX7686

Asking it to be locked after threatening a cyber-attack on another website is unethical. It's almost like you're trying to hide your comments now.

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If he was trying to hide it, he'd delete the post. Which he can't do if the thread is locked.

heh...i have just now noticed something..it's not that no one is agreeing with me..you guys are IGNORING their posts..i just scanned through this thread...nearly every single post that has sided with my opinion was not replied to and left in the dust.

Abyssea is not endgame. It is midgame content designed to give us something to do between 75 and 99.

Dynamis is being changed because people have been requesting that SE overhaul old content for *Months* now.

So much for intelligent discourse

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I thought we already established that I was a credible, non-lazy source.

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your creditability dropped when you began attacking me.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

your creditability dropped when you began attacking me.

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Actually it went up.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

heh...i have just now noticed something..it's not that no one is agreeing with me..you guys are IGNORING their posts..i just scanned through this thread...nearly every single post that has sided with my opinion was not replied to and left in the dust.

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No, I think most of the replies have been collectively responding to everyone's posts. Some people are just stating their opinion and reasons why very politely and sanely. Their opinions are worthwhile and should be taken into consideration. The people being directly responded to are the people, such as yourself, who are being trolls and a bit insane.

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Originally Posted by Chrianna

So much for intelligent discourse

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If you follow half the arguements going on in the forums they're:

A) A troll trying to get a rise out of everyone.
B) Genuinely that stupid.
C) Incredibly bored at work.

or a combination of the three. You either get a laugh out of it, or a massive headache.

Let them leech you know why no one ever look 4 the dd that goes afk. Only the mages and leeches so let there be cake.

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Originally Posted by rog

Actually it went up.

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Heehee that was good ^_^

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Originally Posted by Krystal

heh...i have just now noticed something..it's not that no one is agreeing with me..you guys are IGNORING their posts..i just scanned through this thread...nearly every single post that has sided with my opinion was not replied to and left in the dust.

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No we responded with alternatives for you. You in turned proceeded to yell the same arguments over and over in a loud voice.

Hey guys, let's try to stay on topic here. I know that this is a popular discussion and there are a lot of passionate opinions out there, so we really don't want to have to lock the thread due to off topic discussions or inflammatory comments. Remember that continued violations of the forum guidelines can also result in disciplinary action to your account.

Please refer to http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...la=1&tag=forum and http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...Discussion!for more information about the rules. Thank you for understanding!

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Originally Posted by Qeepel

Hey guys, let's try to stay on topic here. I know that this is a popular discussion and there are a lot of passionate opinions out there, so we really don't want to have to lock the thread due to off topic discussions or inflammatory comments. Remember that continued violations of the forum guidelines can also result in disciplinary action to your account.

Please refer to http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ral-Discussion! for more information about the rules. Thank you for understanding!

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Party pooper.... no cake for you

This is my second attempt, but just like Krystal said, the posts that side with him/her/it are mostly overlooked. I want to start by saying that I, more or less, am on team Krystal in this debate. I don't like how they're handling it. To be honest, even, I don't think the level cap should be changed, I just think the level cap should have been much higher to begin with.

I don't think anyone can disagree that the addition of Abyssea areas (including raising the level cap altogether) changed the game completely. It, in fact, made a very large percentage of players feel like they just wasted the last 5 or 7 years of their lives. In all honesty, something was going to happen eventually... I mean, either the game had to eventually end, or content needed to grow to spark interest, and obviously SE is going to try and keep it going, and they chose raising the level cap. Either way, players would and did have that mourning period over the pieces of their lives they've dedicated to a video game.

All the arguments that are stating "Nobody is stopping you from leveling the old way" are just silly. Any hint of "fun" that came with the old grinding style will be gone knowing theres an easier way now. Nobody liked the grinding, but I bet those that did can remember all the camps they used to use and at least 1 story from them that brought them and immersed them into this game. I know I do. And when you finally reach 75... There's a sense of accomplishment that comes with it, however, and it isn't just about feeling good about yourself. It's also not about "bragging rights". But you earned your spot in end-game, and everyone in the end-game around you also earned their spot. That brings trust, that brings partnership... A while back, character buying was a big thing, and a HUGE portion of the community hated it, and shunned the players who did. These days, you wouldn't even know the difference, and it wouldn't matter. It only takes a couple weeks to start from scratch and build up multiple 90's if you're dedicated.

And lets not forget that the old way of playing wasn't just boring leveling until end game... There was a ton of stuff to do even though you weren't 75 yet. Missions had level caps that grew as you went deeper into the storyline. Tons of quests, whose rewards were not yet useless, were available. And don't forget crafting.

On the same note as nobody enjoying grinding, nobody enjoyed losing at missions either. But EVERYONE had the same opportunity and EVERYONE had the ability to beat those missions, no matter how many times they failed. And once you beat that mission, ooooh... I remember how long CoP 2-5 took me back when... It felt SO GOOD to get that out of the way, finally! The difficulty gave me a reason to stay with it and keep trying, and if at any point I felt like I had accomplished all the content I wanted to... Then it was time to start building up another 75 to be more prepared for the next batch of content.

People like Krystal and myself miss those days, and miss that game. I don't want to turn of FFVII and get myself to the end side quests in the amount of time it used to take me to get out of the first city. I don't expect or want that game to change, and I didn't expect or want FFXI to change either. But it did, and now we have to roll with it. Yes, our arguments are fueled by nostalgia 90% of the time... But can you blame us? Logging in is literally depressing for me now (which is why I stopped logging in for now).

The quests and the gear used to immerse us in the game. The combination of level sync and abyssea's mass exp made so much gear useless. Most gear from 1-30 and next to all gear from 30-75 is useless. Thats hundreds, maybe thousands, of item dat files gone to waste. Hundreds of nms that are useless to kill, and even if nostalgia brings you to hunt one down, nobody cares but you. Area's that are hardly ever visited. Endless hours spent crafting which is now a useless trade. Countless quests nobody will ever do, because the rewards are useless.

A couple weeks ago I went online and read through all the stone monuments for the Crawler's Nest map, followed that sad and heartfelt storyline, and it almost brought a tear to my eye. I won't be too surprised if not many of you have ever heard of that quest, and impressed if you have. Is there any reason to go to Crawler's Nest anymore? Are there people that don't even know that it is an area you can go to? You can call me weak, or sentimental, or a girl, or whatever, but its sad to me. I loved this game and the world it brought me into, and had some of the best times within it.

The two main reasons there is a lack of support on Krystals side are as follows...
1. It's a lot of bickering, on both ends.
2. Most people that agree with them already quit.

Level cap going to 99 and exp being so easy to come by just doesn't sit well with people that have been around a long time. That's just the way it is. There is no use arguing about it. SE had their reasons to do what they did and the people that enjoy it are playing an entirely different game that we used to love. That's all. I think I might start an online journal. I need an outlet and apparently I'm using this forum as one right now. Krystal... I'm sorry but you may need to quit FFXI, or you might never be happy.

Summed up:
Our reasons for wanted a higher level cap for Abyssea areas: We think it will change this game back to the game we used to play. Unfortunately, that game is long gone.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

Level cap going to 99 and exp being so easy to come by just doesn't sit well with people that have been around a long time. That's just the way it is. There is no use arguing about it. SE had their reasons to do what they did and the people that enjoy it are playing an entirely different game that we used to love.

Summed up:
Our reasons for wanted a higher level cap for Abyssea areas: We think it will change this game back to the game we used to play. Unfortunately, that game is long gone.

Thank you.

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Two things:

1. Not all people who leveled jobs before abyssea are against the way the game is now, many of us like the curent system.

2. You dont help your argument for "oldschool players" by having your most vocal supporter (Krystal) being a person whose first job is sch, therefore they never lvled the truly hard way before level sync.

Ugh in all seriousness the Damage is already done by abyssea~ if it were truly a problem SE would have changed it within the first week. its already been a few months~ changing it now wont mean a thing except ALOT of people upset at SE. To be honest~ SE wont want that headache. @.@

I haven't been playing since the NA release, but have been playing since about 2005; before level sync and before abyssea and I worked my way up to there to 75 without abyssea. But I'm all for the level cap staying where it is.

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

Two things:

1. Not all people who leveled jobs before abyssea are against the way the game is now, many of us like the curent system.

2. You dont help your argument for "oldschool players" by having your most vocal supporter (Krystal) being a person whose first job is sch, therefore they never lvled the truly hard way before level sync.

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^ Is one of those "oldschool players" who leveled the hard way and I could care less if they raise or lower the cap to abyssea. If I'm in a party and there are so many leechers that it's slowing things down, or they're so horrible they can't understand how to play their job, I just leave plain and simple. I think I said this before, raising the cap will do absolutely nothing. The people that leech now would just change tactics to lv sync'ing in the old camps and burns. The "hard way" of exp'ing has been dead for a long time now. A decent DD in abyssea should be shaving off most of the mobs hp in one weaponskill. Blackmage can kill most mobs in 2 nukes, a few leechers in the group never bothered me.

I'd rather have level 1s with keys than some of the 75+ "DDs" that I've seen in pickup parties. You know it's bad when the WAR skilling up with two augmented clubs is doing about half the alliance's damage.

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Originally Posted by Unaisis

Ugh in all seriousness the Damage is already done by abyssea~

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What damage?

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

This is my second attempt, but just like Krystal said, the posts that side with him/her/it are mostly overlooked. I want to start by saying that I, more or less, am on team Krystal in this debate. I don't like how they're handling it. To be honest, even, I don't think the level cap should be changed, I just think the level cap should have been much higher to begin with.

I don't think anyone can disagree that the addition of Abyssea areas (including raising the level cap altogether) changed the game completely. It, in fact, made a very large percentage of players feel like they just wasted the last 5 or 7 years of their lives. In all honesty, something was going to happen eventually... I mean, either the game had to eventually end, or content needed to grow to spark interest, and obviously SE is going to try and keep it going, and they chose raising the level cap. Either way, players would and did have that mourning period over the pieces of their lives they've dedicated to a video game.

All the arguments that are stating "Nobody is stopping you from leveling the old way" are just silly. Any hint of "fun" that came with the old grinding style will be gone knowing theres an easier way now. Nobody liked the grinding, but I bet those that did can remember all the camps they used to use and at least 1 story from them that brought them and immersed them into this game. I know I do. And when you finally reach 75... There's a sense of accomplishment that comes with it, however, and it isn't just about feeling good about yourself. It's also not about "bragging rights". But you earned your spot in end-game, and everyone in the end-game around you also earned their spot. That brings trust, that brings partnership... A while back, character buying was a big thing, and a HUGE portion of the community hated it, and shunned the players who did. These days, you wouldn't even know the difference, and it wouldn't matter. It only takes a couple weeks to start from scratch and build up multiple 90's if you're dedicated.

And lets not forget that the old way of playing wasn't just boring leveling until end game... There was a ton of stuff to do even though you weren't 75 yet. Missions had level caps that grew as you went deeper into the storyline. Tons of quests, whose rewards were not yet useless, were available. And don't forget crafting.

On the same note as nobody enjoying grinding, nobody enjoyed losing at missions either. But EVERYONE had the same opportunity and EVERYONE had the ability to beat those missions, no matter how many times they failed. And once you beat that mission, ooooh... I remember how long CoP 2-5 took me back when... It felt SO GOOD to get that out of the way, finally! The difficulty gave me a reason to stay with it and keep trying, and if at any point I felt like I had accomplished all the content I wanted to... Then it was time to start building up another 75 to be more prepared for the next batch of content.

People like Krystal and myself miss those days, and miss that game. I don't want to turn of FFVII and get myself to the end side quests in the amount of time it used to take me to get out of the first city. I don't expect or want that game to change, and I didn't expect or want FFXI to change either. But it did, and now we have to roll with it. Yes, our arguments are fueled by nostalgia 90% of the time... But can you blame us? Logging in is literally depressing for me now (which is why I stopped logging in for now).

The quests and the gear used to immerse us in the game. The combination of level sync and abyssea's mass exp made so much gear useless. Most gear from 1-30 and next to all gear from 30-75 is useless. Thats hundreds, maybe thousands, of item dat files gone to waste. Hundreds of nms that are useless to kill, and even if nostalgia brings you to hunt one down, nobody cares but you. Area's that are hardly ever visited. Endless hours spent crafting which is now a useless trade. Countless quests nobody will ever do, because the rewards are useless.

A couple weeks ago I went online and read through all the stone monuments for the Crawler's Nest map, followed that sad and heartfelt storyline, and it almost brought a tear to my eye. I won't be too surprised if not many of you have ever heard of that quest, and impressed if you have. Is there any reason to go to Crawler's Nest anymore? Are there people that don't even know that it is an area you can go to? You can call me weak, or sentimental, or a girl, or whatever, but its sad to me. I loved this game and the world it brought me into, and had some of the best times within it.

The two main reasons there is a lack of support on Krystals side are as follows...
1. It's a lot of bickering, on both ends.
2. Most people that agree with them already quit.

Level cap going to 99 and exp being so easy to come by just doesn't sit well with people that have been around a long time. That's just the way it is. There is no use arguing about it. SE had their reasons to do what they did and the people that enjoy it are playing an entirely different game that we used to love. That's all. I think I might start an online journal. I need an outlet and apparently I'm using this forum as one right now. Krystal... I'm sorry but you may need to quit FFXI, or you might never be happy.

Summed up:
Our reasons for wanted a higher level cap for Abyssea areas: We think it will change this game back to the game we used to play. Unfortunately, that game is long gone.

Thank you.

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You express my feelings exactly. Thank you for taking the time to clarify these thoughts.

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Originally Posted by rog

What damage?

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ugh, what abyssea haters consider damage~ lol

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Originally Posted by Chrianna

You express my feelings exactly. Thank you for taking the time to put things so succinctly.

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You're either being sarcastic or need to look up the word succinctly.

I think SE intended for Abyssea to be this way because they know that FFXI isn't going to last forever. No new player is going to want to spend all that time grinding and trying to do the missions over and over again til they win when the game might not be running in a couple years. This way new players have a chance to catch up and enjoy the game. I can't really see SE changing the min lvl for abyssea, and i for one hope that they don't. I got my first 2 75's before abyssea, and am glad i have an easier way to do it. that and i find keying chests more fun that just sitting there mindlessly attacking things :D