Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and WoE Weapons

An AR2 run a day alone should get you at least a stack of alexandrite, an easy 600k right there.

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Originally Posted by Tidis

An AR2 run a day alone should get you at least a stack of alexandrite, an easy 600k right there.

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Apart from that, you can run Dynamis, which should also net a nice amount of gil.
When there's no campaign going, Walk of Echoes makes an easy living farming coins, dies and residue as those are always in demand.
And even on a lower ilevel that one's very easilly doable, especially since it also allows trusts these days.

And apart from the WoE stuff, selling things shouldn't be too hard either, Dynamis currency and Alexandrite can be sold on AH since the november or december patch.

And sorry to be incredibly blunt here, Yogorock; But if you have so much trouble getting gil, how and why on Vana'diel did you make a legendary weapon?
If you haven't, this doesn't apply to you. (yet) ;)

Dynamis is a simple fast easy way to get gil

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

We can’t provide exact details other than letting you know that the hurdle to upgrade these weapons will be high. You’ll be able to complete the upgrade process by steadily working on your goal over the course of time. Also, not only will you be able to make progress through battle content, it will also be possible to use gil as a way to complete these upgrades.

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Any plans to address the concerns that multiple people have raised re: the lack of choice in creating an afterglow weapon that a significant proportion of players - likely most - don't actually want or need?

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

We can’t provide exact details other than letting you know that the hurdle to upgrade these weapons will be high. You’ll be able to complete the upgrade process by steadily working on your goal over the course of time. Also, not only will you be able to make progress through battle content, it will also be possible to use gil as a way to complete these upgrades.

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I realize that our worries have most likely fallen on deaf ears, but I guess I will ask one last thing. Does this mean straight gil or items you can buy from the ah? Either way, I see a lot of RMT's happening around February. While I appreciate the cryptic hints you have given us, I would like to ask why the devs think it is fair to subject REM holders to what appears to Aeonic level quests after all of the other quests they have to do just to get to 119. Battle content would appear to mean escha or unity, given the level of the weapon attained. It would then follow that the quest is something akin to the current Aeonic quest line. So REM's have to do everything to get to 119 to then do basically what an Aeonic has to do, while the aeonic only has to do the one quest? If the rem's became stronger by a good margin over aeonics, this would be fair, but you have said that they will be "on par" with Aeonics. Where is the justice here? Do the devs want only the aeonics used, while the original best weapons are sidelined due asinine unfairness?

As a side note, I will admit that maybe we of the player base may be thinking the worst, but quite frankly, the track record gives us little else to hold onto. If it is straight gil that can be used, I'm already calling the 100 million mark as the lowest start, and that is being conservative based on record.

I just don't understand why RME holders are subject to a large hurdle to get their weapons current again?
RMEs themselves already take a considerable amount of: time, money, or both, to be able to even get the base weapon. From there, they already take another hurdle to even get to 119. Why does it seem difficult to give players that already own RMEs to be able to easily upgrade to make their weapon equal to Aeonics?

It does not make sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Jerbob

Any plans to address the concerns that multiple people have raised re: the lack of choice in creating an afterglow weapon that a significant proportion of players - likely most - don't actually want or need?

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You do have a choice. Do or do not make the weapon.

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Originally Posted by Cblade

I realize that our worries have most likely fallen on deaf ears, but I guess I will ask one last thing. Does this mean straight gil or items you can buy from the ah? Either way, I see a lot of RMT's happening around February. While I appreciate the cryptic hints you have given us, I would like to ask why the devs think it is fair to subject REM holders to what appears to Aeonic level quests after all of the other quests they have to do just to get to 119. Battle content would appear to mean escha or unity, given the level of the weapon attained. It would then follow that the quest is something akin to the current Aeonic quest line. So REM's have to do everything to get to 119 to then do basically what an Aeonic has to do, while the aeonic only has to do the one quest? If the rem's became stronger by a good margin over aeonics, this would be fair, but you have said that they will be "on par" with Aeonics. Where is the justice here? Do the devs want only the aeonics used, while the original best weapons are sidelined due asinine unfairness?

As a side note, I will admit that maybe we of the player base may be thinking the worst, but quite frankly, the track record gives us little else to hold onto. If it is straight gil that can be used, I'm already calling the 100 million mark as the lowest start, and that is being conservative based on record.

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For you to say that it will be an aeonic level quest is ridiculous on your part. Grekumah said you can make progress steadily by battle content and also can make progress by gil. This is not aeonic. Aeonic does not allow steady progress by means of gil. It is get 50k beads, then kill all the pop NMs in each of the three zones. Considering how difficult the aeonic quest is (no one has been able to complete it because it is so difficult), the two quests can't even be compared.

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Originally Posted by Mithlas

I just don't understand why RME holders are subject to a large hurdle to get their weapons current again?
RMEs themselves already take a considerable amount of: time, money, or both, to be able to even get the base weapon. From there, they already take another hurdle to even get to 119. Why does it seem difficult to give players that already own RMEs to be able to easily upgrade to make their weapon equal to Aeonics?

It does not make sense to me.

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The quests to make aeonics are not easy, whereas REMs are easy but can require quite a bit of time. Why should you get upgraded to the best weapons in the game with little to no effort? By the sounds of Grekumah's post you will be able to get the upgraded REMs with effort and not almost impossibly difficult content like aeonic weapons making requires.

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Originally Posted by Daisansha

You do have a choice. Do or do not make the weapon.

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I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I was reflecting on the fact that SE have effectively revoked an existing, very significant choice that was fundamental to the nature of these special weapons. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to expect that a choice of that type would be taken forward in an upgrade path like this. After all, this isn't a case of making the weapons "even better" - it's actually returning them to their intended status as some of the best weapons in the entire game, which is a status they have lost.

"Do or do not make the weapon" is a bit of an oversimplification when we consider the motivation for this upgrade path being presented to us in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Daisansha

Aeonic does not allow steady progress by means of gil.

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There is NOTHING in FFXI that cannot be bought with gil.

Do these REM updates include shields(ochain/aegis)?

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Originally Posted by Jerbob

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I was reflecting on the fact that SE have effectively revoked an existing, very significant choice that was fundamental to the nature of these special weapons. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to expect that a choice of that type would be taken forward in an upgrade path like this. After all, this isn't a case of making the weapons "even better" - it's actually returning them to their intended status as some of the best weapons in the entire game, which is a status they have lost.

"Do or do not make the weapon" is a bit of an oversimplification when we consider the motivation for this upgrade path being presented to us in the first place.

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To be fair, many mythics/ergons are still useful even in their current state, as are emp and relic shields and instruments. That's not to say they can't be improved further, but it's really the non-shield/instrument relics and emps that are hurting the most right now. And as much as SE might want to cut them some slack and make the upgrade at about the same difficulty as the last few paths, what it ultimately comes down to is that they can't. Due to programming or personnel limitations, they can't (or won't) do separate paths for AG and not AG weapons any more. And so, because AG exists, everyone without one must now pay the consequences.

What I find unfair is that ergons have no AG to begin with, and still must be made to suffer through some ridiculous trial. :p

Guys, seriously, it's blatantly obvious what's going on here, come on. They're making it as annoying as humanly possible, to force you into having a goal for the foreseeable future.

By forcing you into an afterglow path it more or less ensures that you'll spend thousands more hours on the trials. None of you will quit, you'll never quit. You'll piss and moan and do the trials, then ask for more punishment.

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Originally Posted by Vae

Guys, seriously, it's blatantly obvious what's going on here, come on. They're making it as annoying as humanly possible, to force you into having a goal for the foreseeable future.

By forcing you into an afterglow path it more or less ensures that you'll spend thousands more hours on the trials. None of you will quit, you'll never quit. You'll piss and moan and do the trials, then ask for more punishment.

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No, what is obvious is that SE is making two types of ultimate weapons (SE specifically said they were making upgraded REMs comparable to Aeonics). They are making so there are two paths to obtain ultimate weapons. One path is for the greatly skilled (aeonics); the other path is for the greatly perseverant (REMs). This is a fairly common theme in anime btw: skill vs effort, and so I'm not too shocked to see it here. Make your choice: skill, effort, both, or neither. Anyone can choose to do 3/4 of those paths, the only one that can't be done by everyone is the skill path. Either you got it, or you don't. Inb4 someone says they are entitled to the skill path even though they lack skill.

Oh god. Are you serious? Are you really serious? Are you saying Aeonics are for the "greatly skilled"? Are you truthfully saying that?

I'm sorry. Previously I thought you merely didn't understand the viewpoint that myself and others were trying to make. Now I know you're incapable of understanding it at all.

There is absolutely no more skill involved in getting an Aeonic than in getting a Relic, Empyrean, or Mythic.

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Originally Posted by Daisansha

No, what is obvious is that SE is making two types of ultimate weapons (SE specifically said they were making upgraded REMs comparable to Aeonics). They are making so there are two paths to obtain ultimate weapons. One path is for the greatly skilled (aeonics); the other path is for the greatly perseverant (REMs). This is a fairly common theme in anime btw: skill vs effort, and so I'm not too shocked to see it here. Make your choice: skill, effort, both, or neither. Anyone can choose to do 3/4 of those paths, the only one that can't be done by everyone is the skill path. Either you got it, or you don't. Inb4 someone says they are entitled to the skill path even though they lack skill.

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Nothing in FFXI requires skill. Everything is Gil driven, and time based. There's nothing that cannot be obtained, while blindfolded, playing with your feet only. Provided you have the patience to earn gil.

(there USED to be some things that required a BIT of skill. Kiting Kirin for an hour without dying. Procing abyssea between tp moves/magics. that is the extent of "skill" within this game.)

FFXI consists of hitting 2-3 buttons, in a pattern, a monkey can do it. The only thing that exists is "the grind" and how hard you are on it.

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Originally Posted by machini

Oh god. Are you serious? Are you really serious? Are you saying Aeonics are for the "greatly skilled"? Are you truthfully saying that?

I'm sorry. Previously I thought you merely didn't understand the viewpoint that myself and others were trying to make. Now I know you're incapable of understanding it at all.

There is absolutely no more skill involved in getting an Aeonic than in getting a Relic, Empyrean, or Mythic.

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lololololololool. Ho, ho, I'm laughing so hard. Tell me, have you beaten Zerde? No? Has anyone? No? Didn't think so. Some of the other fights are incredibly difficult as well. Come back when you actually know what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Vae

Nothing in FFXI requires skill. Everything is Gil driven, and time based. There's nothing that cannot be obtained, while blindfolded, playing with your feet only. Provided you have the patience to earn gil.

(there USED to be some things that required a BIT of skill. Kiting Kirin for an hour without dying. Procing abyssea between tp moves/magics. that is the extent of "skill" within this game.)

FFXI consists of hitting 2-3 buttons, in a pattern, a monkey can do it. The only thing that exists is "the grind" and how hard you are on it.

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You, also, don't know what you are talking about. Actually learn what it takes to get an aeonic before coming back.

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Originally Posted by Daisansha

You, also, don't know what you are talking about. Actually learn what it takes to get an aeonic before coming back.

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You mean all those fights you can pay to have other people brew for you?

Lots of skill there.

Please stop now before you embarrass yourself further.

This dude Daisansha is absolutely clueless. There's no benefit to even replying to him. Just ignore and move on.

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Originally Posted by machini

You mean all those fights you can pay to have other people brew for you?

Lots of skill there.

Please stop now before you embarrass yourself further.

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Originally Posted by Vae

This dude Daisansha is absolutely clueless. There's no benefit to even replying to him. Just ignore and move on.

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Again, the two of you showing that you don't know what you are talking about. Seriously, actually do some research and apply logic before replying.

You can't brew aeonics. This has been known for over a month now.

And as for the "you can buy anything with gil" comment: it doesn't matter if you have 10 trillion gil.... since no one can beat the content, then it doesn't matter if you throw all that gil at someone, you're still not getting the aeonic.

You two are the ones that need to stop embarrassing yourselves.

Actually Dai sounds like he knows what he is talking about. The two of you are embarrassing yourselves. Did you really compare kiting Kirin for 2 hours to having skill? I hope that is a joke....

Your current argument is "noone knows how to beat it yet", yet being the key word here.
Give it time before the first people come with a sure way to beat the content, then others will follow and before long gil will buy you an Aeonic.

And as far as skill goes, please describe skill in a game where the core mechanic is gear and buff up to deal enough damage and kill the mob before it kills you or time runs out.
And no, doing damage is not skill, Patrick.

Oh, and neither do I count being fortunate enough to be in a good coordinated group as skill either.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

Your current argument is "noone knows how to beat it yet", yet being the key word here.
Give it time before the first people come with a sure way to beat the content, then others will follow and before long gil will buy you an Aeonic.

And as far as skill goes, please describe skill in a game where the core mechanic is gear and buff up to deal enough damage and kill the mob before it kills you or time runs out.
And no, doing damage is not skill, Patrick.

Oh, and neither do I count being fortunate enough to be in a good coordinated group as skill either.

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Yes, yet (or never, no one knows atm). Until such time that the conditions for buying an aeonic exist, that is a legitimate argument as to why one cannot buy an aeonic. It is ridiculous for someone to say you can buy an aeonic when it isn't even possible.

I said it requires great skill to make an aeonic, so here is the description of great skill: accomplishing something that only a very few (or no one in this case) can do out of the entire population of the game. After many, many attempts, the entire population of this game is unable to make them. That means it requires skill that no one has. Part of skill is doing the right things at the right moment. Also part of skill is figuring out the right things to do at the right moment. Since no one has the skill to make them, it is ridiculous for someone to say that making aeonics does not require great skill (or that it is easy like the other person said).

I take it from your post that you most likely have not attempted to complete an aeonic. Go try killing Zerde and some of the other latest NMs then come back and say it doesn't require skill.

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Originally Posted by Daisansha

Again, the two of you showing that you don't know what you are talking about. Seriously, actually do some research and apply logic before replying.

You can't brew aeonics. This has been known for over a month now.

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Can you show where this is "known". The only thing I remember seeing about it about a month ago was a very vague jp help text on fighting them that literally just says "primeval brew bad. It's power is unstable. " with the English saying 0 about brews. Which could mean any number of things namely the fact that it doesn't last nearly long to even just the get hard stuff in reseinjima and you can easily still die or get doomed charmed etc during it (maybe even something super crazy like it wearing off at the start of a pop so you can only do 1 nm per brew). I haven't seen anything seen anything about anyone actually testing it or any clear message about not using brews.

I'd also kind wonder just what it would take for SE to successful make the game be able to recognize that the kill you got on a monster occurred with someone in the alliance having had the brew buff up at anytime during the fight. Without messing up a bunch of other stuff that is

Also completely unrelated but brewing wont be as easy as people remember. With the way brew works a player brewing right now wont be too terribly stronger than when we brewed in abyssea. All the huge stat vomit we've gotten since then means nothing. The all the new mab we have will somewhat matter but is somewhat overshadowed by just how much brew already gives. New ws bonus or adjustments or spell adjustments help but on the other hand no atmas etc. Not to mention the dmg caps really. Meanwhile the monsters you are going to want to use this on are much much stronger. So like in abyssea there wasn't much that a cor or rng couldn't 1-2 shot with wildfire... now even if you managed to hit 99,999 for random ws x and same for the skillchain it's still going to take you multiple skillchains and most these mobs have some pretty mean gimmicks that could still kill, hurt or at least slow you down

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Originally Posted by Shirai

please describe skill in a game where the core mechanic is gear and buff up to deal enough damage and kill the mob before it kills you or time runs out.
And no, doing damage is not skill, Patrick.

Oh, and neither do I count being fortunate enough to be in a good coordinated group as skill either.

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"I don't consider needing to be grouped with skilled players as something requiring skill". Come on now. Coordination is a skill. You're technically correct that everything in the game can be bought, but you're not going to convince anyone by using what's essentially the XI equivalent of the one-thousand-monkeys-at-typewriters scenario.

Gearing characters properly and formulating/executing strategies is exactly what an RPG is about. The fact that people can look up a strategy doesn't mean it doesn't require skill, unless you think you can't be good at Checkers because it's a solved game.

It's something people say to look cool, Kincard. This game does require skill, and people always say that in any game to make things look easier than they are. If that were the case people would be face rolling all the highest tier Escha fights, and they aren't so yeah.

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Originally Posted by dasva

Can you show where this is "known".

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Sure. Here are the ones I found with a minimal search:

OF: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th....?daysprune=60

FFXIAH: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/47...-aeonic-quest/ pretty much the whole page, but specifically the 5th post from the bottom by Essylt.

BGWiki: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Aeonic_Weapons

BG Forum: https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...-Thread/page16 post#301
https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...-Thread/page18 post#355


I'm sure there is probably more to be found (especially on the japanese forums), I just did a quick search.

No, I stand by my point, nothing in this game requires skill.
In the end it's getting strong enough yourself while weakening the mob and dealing enough damage so that its HP hits 0 before your own HP and MP reach that point.
Or time runs out.

You can call teamwork a skill, if you want, but I don't. Though observation might be getting close.

And no, I haven't started making an Aeonic, I simply have no interest in such a weapon.

Looking at the jobs I really like(d) to play.
I have a pair of Spharai for my monk, for which I worked the greater part of a year making them.
I don't have to tell any of you what the state of those weapons is right now, or monk for that matter.

Summoner, my real pride and joy, has a Nirvana.
I've looked at the Aeonic weapon for it, nah.

As for other jobs, I simply don't have enough interest in any of them to even bother. Not even for the sense of accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by Angemon

If that were the case people would be face rolling all the highest tier Escha fights, and they aren't so yeah.

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I have lost track of the amount of times I have heard and read this.
Just give it time, be it a day, a week or maybe even a year. At one point people will be face rolling this content too. Be it because people figured out the mechanics, getting too overgeared for the content or SE nerfing the crap out of it.

In the end this content too will be face rolled.

And "look cool", really now? I am cool. :)

So what exactly requires skill, according to you? In what game in the RPG genre. Because you just gave the most generic answer ever, oh all you need to do is reduce their defenses, increase your offenses and get their HP to 0 before yours. Which describes like every single RPG ever.

Exactly. RPGs don't require skill at all, ffxi is no exception in this.
It all comes down to effort, and Aeonics are really no exception in this either.

In the 12 years I have played this game, and the 14 years of its existence "only for the most skilled" is one of the biggest lies told.
Patient and/or devoted? Yes. Skilled? nah.

What about proper timing of stuns? Timing of weaponskills? Moving out of AoE?

Maybe you don't know what "skill" means?

RPG require no skill, ok thanks now we know to not take you seriously.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

What about proper timing of stuns? Timing of weaponskills? Moving out of AoE?

Maybe you don't know what "skill" means?

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Definitely do, but still, skill is not needed to "win" at this game, it just makes things easier. But as others also point out, so does having a big bag of gil.

Which was the whole point of this argument.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

What about proper timing of stuns?

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People use programs, the progammer had some skill (not in ffxi) writing up the program to react to actions, but not the user.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

Timing of weaponskills?

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Srsly? 1000% go.
The only "skill" weaponskill timing requires, is not losing your shit when the other guy screws up.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

Moving out of AoE?

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Mage all the things. Mages stand stationary as far away as possible. When one mage pulls enmity, they all die. Rarely does anyone bother to get out of the way. That's not skill, it's common sense.

It USED to be an issue with SAMs not having the common sense to move away from conal/breath/etc due to overwhelm, but that's since been solved with the melee nothing strategy.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

Maybe you don't know what "skill" means?

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Based on the things you said were skill related, one would argue that it is you who do not know what it means.

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Originally Posted by Daisansha

Sure. Here are the ones I found with a minimal search:

OF: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th....?daysprune=60

FFXIAH: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/47...-aeonic-quest/ pretty much the whole page, but specifically the 5th post from the bottom by Essylt.

BGWiki: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Aeonic_Weapons

BG Forum: https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...-Thread/page16 post#301
https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...-Thread/page18 post#355


I'm sure there is probably more to be found (especially on the japanese forums), I just did a quick search.

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Let's see that OF was exactly what I said the whole is bad which is incredibly unclear asking for clarification that SE hasn't given . That BGwiki entry comes from the bg forum entry that again is the same brew is bad. And the ffxiah again is saying the same thing except the one post you want to single out because it says what you want it to but later posts show that isn't entirely correct. Specifically dame like most words in any language have multiple related meanings which is even more evident when translating between languages

So 4 links that basically just repeat the brew is bad I already mentioned.... So while it could mean you can't do it, it could mean you shouldn't or it's bad to use it. All of it only on the Japanese client which makes it somewhat suspect to begin with as being an actual requirement instead of some kind of general warning or flavor. Like perhaps SE is trying to give a mild reproach for doing it the easy way with a tsk tsk that's bad player-chan. So we don't "know" it wont work we suspect it wont work. We will know soon enough though with these crazy campaigns letting us get tons of slit

For Relic, Mythic, Empyrean and Ergon weapons, players will be able to upgrade these weapons even if you have not unlocked their afterglows. If a weapon has had its afterglow unlocked, the amount of resources required to upgrade these weapons in the future will be eased.

Players can choose to complete the afterglow step now and then complete the additional new quests, or complete the new quests without unlocking the afterglow for a weapon to upgrade it. All the upgraded legendary arms, except for Ergon weapons, will have an afterglow effect.

The reason for adding afterglow to all these weapons is that we want to use the space allotted to the Trial of the Magians system to allow for the possibility of expansion in the future.

Gremukah,

Why is the dev team so insistent on punishing the majority of the R/E/M wielders for choosing to not to get something that was supposed to be a trophy fmeant for the most dedicated?
I find it a bit hard to swallow that it's just for the sake of giving the dev team an easier time.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

Gremukah,

Why is the dev team so insistent on punishing the majority of the R/E/M wielders for choosing to not to get something that was supposed to be a trophy fmeant for the most dedicated?
I find it a bit hard to swallow that it's just for the sake of giving the dev team an easier time.

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I don't view it as punishment. If you look at the stats of the new weapons (well the 4 they teased to us) they put the newly upgraded weapons right back at the very top of the weapon hierarchy again. I don't mind putting in some further effort to obtain this latest upgrade. In fact I'm looking forward to it.