How did they miss the message that the previous 2h idea double potency and increased duration? How hard was that to comprehend? How did they come back with a SP Ability that is not only identical to a previously existing sub-accessible Job Ability, but worse? How does one fail that badly?
Camate, please tell they developers that their new RDM SP Ability is absolute garbage and should be scrapped immediately. They must go back to the previous idea and grant double potency and duration. DOUBLE POTENCY AND DURATION.
Raptor jesus tap-dancing Christ, I really didn't want to call the developers complete fools, but this is ridiculous. Feedback with these yahoos is like talking with Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. This new producer doesn't seem to have improved much.
New 2-hour Abilities
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11-16-2012, 08:52 AMSunrider
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11-16-2012, 08:53 AMSiiri
As someone who always has loved white mage I admit I sort of have hated the red mage job for a long time. (Due to its obnoxiousness at 75) That being said, even I feel sorry for red mage at this point. This new ability makes it just about the worst job in the game to me. It's really bad. Please give them 60 seconds of it or something. I don't care it just needs to be made better.
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11-16-2012, 09:45 AMHeabea
thanks SE... for the fucking useless rdm 2hr... i dont miss debuffs... ever...
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11-16-2012, 11:08 AMRaksha
Maybe SE is using its massive powers of misdirection here, there's no way a room full of people looked at this RDM thing and signed off on it.
Keep your eyes open for a nerf, or something.
Maybe they wanted to take the heat off the embrava/pd nerf. -
11-16-2012, 11:31 AMSpankWustlerI read this post and imagine the world's most depressing confidence man beating his dog to death with a Saguaro cactus to distract the approaching law enforcement and lynch mob from the children's shower facilities he not-so-recently constructed in his basement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
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11-16-2012, 12:22 PMMerton9999This or there is a terrible mistranslation. Can anyone confirm from the Japanese? Why on earth would you make an SP ability that is worse than one that can be used more frequently from a subjob?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
Honestly, the dev posts are just a comedy show anymore. -
11-16-2012, 12:27 PMByrthIt was translated independently here. That's definitely what they meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merton9999
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11-16-2012, 12:37 PMbigdave
as a thief main i want to know about the new ja war and monk seem useless so far to me
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11-16-2012, 05:13 PMHashmalumDon't worry, you'll get your share of poop in your hat in a week or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdave
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11-16-2012, 07:19 PMhikoQuote:
Originally Posted by Camate
IMO it will be 0sec on a 5min recast because 5min abilities are not special abilitiesQuote:
Originally Posted by Motenten
else i agree
same answer for other JAs will do nothingQuote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
+ we don't know yet if merit delay reduction is static or %, we know you can lower it to 30 min but it can be -10% per merit
if its % and added in the same term than corsp2 it's also a full reset
the only thing i pretty sure about is that you won't be able to cap SPDR on every SP
I think people haven't looked enough into evoliths since SP delay reduction info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
1 min on 2hr was stupid, 1 min on 1h is not a lot better
but you can get stronger evolith, etch on on each visible armor slot=> maximum delay - (full ebur, max sized evo in each) is 12min
2hr-12min is still lol, 30-12 or (60-12)/2* isn't -
11-16-2012, 09:06 PMUrteil
Both DRK SP abilities are very lackluster and as it currently stands despite being on separate timers they can't even be used at the same time for dual benefit.
Just as you cannot have multiple additional effects proc on a weapon HP drain + TP Drain is not possible (it also renders Endark useless).
I really hope the new DRK ability will be revised. When every single one of these new SP abilities was pretty bad (save a couple) it seemed good by comparison, now it is very lackluster and not even compatible to be used at the same time.
Blood weapon hardly qualifies as an SP as it is, Soul Enslavement is looking pretty grim. -
11-16-2012, 09:07 PMOphannus
The fact that RDM's SP2 is still subject to Half Resists adds insult to injury. Let's look at the benefit of RDM's enfeebles in endgame(Legion), assuming 100% chance of landing.
Paralyze II -Paralyze doesn't block TP moves which is what cripples an alliance, not auto-attacks from the mob(which wouldn't be blocked anyway since auto-attacks are counted as frontal cone-aoe TP moves for most Legion mobs.
Slow II - Damage incurred by players during Legion comes from big AoE Spells or TP moves, very rarely do players get hit directly for very much damage due to stuns/Perfect Defense. Even with those two abilities gone, TP attacks are what kills players for the most part.
Poison II - Negligible if it lands, 10 damage/3 seconds is not worth wasting a 2hour on.
Dia III/Bio III- Lands always anyway.
Blind II- Accuracy isn't an issue since these NMs are such high level that decreasing their accuracy by 30-40 would barely make an impact in their hit rate. Also most NM's TP attacks are magical based, so Blind II does nothing against them.
Addle- Addle has extremely high accuracy already and I've almost never seen it resisted. Additionally its usefulness is small as even with mobs that cast, they're often stunned anyway.
Bind/Sleep/Sleep II/Gravity/Gravity II/Break/Silence - Worthless since 99% of NMs are immune.
Am I missing any enfeebles? Basically we have a 2hr that gives us a 100% chance to land Paralyze/Slow/Blind/Addle/Poison(still subject to half-resists).
Quote:
Camate Wrote:
you will be able to greatly impair and neutralize monsters.
Please tell me how Slow/Paralyze/Poison/Blind 'greatly impairs and neutralizes monsters', unless we're talking about Even Matches or Decent Challenges, none of RDM's spells are capable of impairing anything. In fact the only spells that would actually neutralize or impair a monster would be spells that NMs are oft immune to i.e Break/Sleep/Bind/Silence/Gravity.Quote:
Neutralize: To put out of action or make incapable of action
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11-16-2012, 09:16 PMCalatilla
You know how sometimes you get hit with a tp move that paralyzes you or a mob casts paralyze on you and all you see in the chat log is "player is paralyzed" until it either wears off or someone casts paralyna? That's what RDM`s new SP should add to enfeebles, increased potency so they actually do something.
When a mob casts paralyze 1 on me I often can't do anything because it procs so much, when I cast paralyze II on a mob it does nothing. You seem to like the word Balance SE, try using some here. -
11-16-2012, 09:31 PMByrth
Honestly, maxing enfeebling potency while still being able to land them on almost anything isn't that hard. You just make a MAcc magian staff and stack MND everywhere else. Even without that (using Chatoyant), I'm able to Blind non-immune Legion monsters on Scholar without even specifically gearing for it when I pull them.
Soaring Dvergr - Resist
Soaring Naraka - Immunobreak
Veiled Ixion - Blinded x4
Veiled Alicorn - Blinded
Veiled Ironclad - Immunobreak x4
Mired Mantis - Blinded x3
Lofty Harpeia - Blinded
Lofty Zilant - Immunobreak
Veiled Sanguiptere - Immunobreak
Veiled Gigaworm - Blinded
Paramount Harpeia - Blinded, Resist
Paramount Mantis - Blinded x2, Resist
Paramount Naraka - Resist, Immunobreak
If I had a real set / was on Red Mage, I'd doubtlessly see even fewer resists. So I don't know what monster SE is imagining that we need this SP ability for. Is it just for landing Paralyze on Ganaub? RDM's SP ability shouldn't be a substitute for a MAcc staff, let alone Elemental Seal.
Slow is kind of useful against Legion monsters because it does delay their attack rounds, but I'm pretty sure Paralyze literally doesn't work on them. Like, you can Paralyze their magic but never their attacks. -
11-16-2012, 09:40 PMOphannus
Most of these SP abilities just seem like they should have been regular 5-10min abilities learned by jobs 96-99, since many jobs actually gained no new job abilities,spells or traits after the last level cap. Like I'm fairly sure DRG gained no new JAs or traits after level 95.
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11-16-2012, 10:58 PMHeabea
if were gonna have an ability like this for rdm, why not add spells like embrava/kaustra that can only be used during it... like doom, terror, strong plague?
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11-16-2012, 11:19 PMCalatilla
Im not talking about making them land, im talking about them actually doing something, which 99% of the time they don't do anything for their whole duration, specifically paralyze.
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11-17-2012, 02:19 AMLuvbunny
You know, a simple solution for RDM is to copy what they already did with Blue Mage. The new 2 hours will give them access to special spells, and all of them will have 100% accuracy to land. Plague, Terror, Reduce Mob Tp by 20%, etc... Make it so that it requires charges, meaning make 10 new spells available, but you can only choose 3 to use. So alliance will need at least 2-3 rdm to strategize. Half of those spells should be enfeeble or DoT based. The other half can be self enhanced or party buffs, which can be AOE using scholar abilities. Problem solved. Rdm suddenly is WANTED and must have for end game.
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11-17-2012, 02:52 AMtyrantsyn
Yea but the problem is if they work, there unbalanced. And if they don't work, their balance and useless.
This new SP for RDM is a bad joke, we need enfeebling magic to work properly especially against mobs that it makes sense too. Not a SP that has a chance to get the job done if condition are met. We already have that on top of ton's of gear and A+ skill. -
11-17-2012, 04:00 AMCamate
Happy Friday everyone!
The new special abilities mentioned in my post from yesterday have been implemented on to the Test Server. In order to make it easier to test all of these new special abilities, we have set the cool down timers to 10 seconds. (However, since I’m sure you all would like to test out the new special ability for corsair, we left all of the original special ability cool down timers at 1 hour.)
*Monk's new special ability effect duration has been set to 30 seconds, but we will be making changes and testing it with effect duration set to 60 seconds, 45 seconds, and 30 seconds, so there is a possibility that this time is adjusted.
With that said please make sure to test it out as we would love to hear your feedback!
Now then, I have a couple of responses in regards to feedback for the new special abilities announced for monk and red mage.
First, I'd like to give a bit more of an explanation about the decision for monk, as there were comments floating around that the revamp special ability did not fit the original job concept. The counter effect for the new special ability, no matter how we adjusted it to deal with AoE attacks, we just couldn't solve the problem with the current battle specs, so we decided to change direction.
There was also a request to add a counter/guard rate increase when using the new special ability. While this would become the main effect, there is a possibility that we can add an increased guard rate as something that can be done via merit points. (However, please keep in mind guard cannot mitigate AoE attacks.)
Next, on to red mage's new special ability, which is being heavily discussed.
Many people are commenting that the effect is no different than Elemental Seal. While Elemental Seal greatly increases the accuracy of spells, its effect is still limited by resistances, so there are cases where highly resistant monsters will still resist a spell used in conjunction with Elemental Seal. On the other hand, red mage's new special ability will guarantee the spell to land ignoring resistance, so the effect is stronger than Elemental Seal.
The development team has been working on adjustments to greatly reduce monsters with immunity, and nearly all of the monsters that have immunities have been adjusted for Voidwatch, Legion, and the higher-tier Limbus/Einherjar. We will continue to address other monsters for each content. (The ability cannot be used on monsters with immunity; however, the effect will not wear off in these cases and you can use the effect in conjunction with your next spell.)
There have been suggestions to change the ability so you can use it for the entire effect duration, instead of just for a single spell. While we will not rule out this possibility, we would like to make adjustments carefully, since it would then be possible to completely immobilize monsters with enfeebling effects, on top of Chain Spell Stun.
On another note, as there has been a lot of feedback mentioning that there is a problem with enfeebling effects being too weak, we would like to make it so the effects are more apparent, and will be adjusting this moving forward separately from the topic at hand. -
11-17-2012, 04:44 AMsaevelNO just f*cking NO, STOP ITQuote:
Many people are commenting that the effect is no different than Elemental Seal. While Elemental Seal greatly increases the accuracy of spells, its effect is still limited by resistances, so there are cases where highly resistant monsters will still resist a spell used in conjunction with Elemental Seal. On the other hand, red mage's new special ability will guarantee the spell to land ignoring resistance, so the effect is stronger than Elemental Sea
The playerbase is telling you it's a stupid idea.
It's just elemental seal. It cranks up your magic accuracy to obscene levels and allows you to land any spell you have provided the monster isn't stupidly resistant to it.
Tell the developers BAD F*CKING IDEA. Go back to the first one and make it a 3min duration ability. -
11-17-2012, 04:50 AMDemon6324236Sorry Camate, I still don't care, you asked for feedback, the RDMs gave you a response, nearly everyone said they wanted what you offered, but with a larger increase to potency, and a duration increase to allow more spells cast as well. As I said, the original idea had its heart in the right place, it was a great idea, just not powerful enough to really work. What your offering now is not really acceptable, its just not worth it, I would much rather the other ability with the increased potency your players asked for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
What is the point in asking for feedback, especially asking for more detailed feedback, when you simply seem to take it as a "no, go back & make something else" anyways? I feel as though our voice was ignored, you changed it as we asked, but in a vastly different way, one which ruined it, and turned it away from what we really wanted. I am sure your players would have little problem giving you details on how they would like to see things changed, but you have to do your part by actually listening to them from time to time rather than going in a completely different direction. -
11-17-2012, 05:01 AMCowardlybabooon
Maybe instead of a duration just make it more than one spell using a charge system like finishing moves. 3 perfect enfeebles could be very relevant to today's endgame content.
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11-17-2012, 05:01 AMKitkat
Never thought I'd see the day Saevel lost his cool >.>
I agree however. The current direction of the ability, and in practice thus far, is that it is absolutely not worth a 30min to 1 hour recast. If you wanted to make this seem even remotely viable it needs to have a prolonged duration over multiple spells and not have any potency resistance. Potency resistance in and of itself already proves this is nothing more than an elaborate Elemental Seal on too long a cast.
Secondly, your counter argument about it being used in conjunction with Chainspell Stun is unfounded, especially when Stun at its roots is governed by Dark Magic skill meaning this ability (based on description) would have no baring on it if the rdm also used this tactic while still in effect. The description dictates it only works on enfeebling magic. Alternatively, rdm has an abysmal rating in dark magic skill since increase from 75 to 99. It is 300 Skill, we can't boost it via Sch to B+ and still use Stun thus Chainspell Stun on things of harder persuasion is no longer viable due to another patch made years and years and years ago called Accumulative Resistance build-up (you know, the thing SE added to the game to deter the use of multiple blm for manaburning Dynamis Lord in the old day?).
I highly suggest the Devs go back and do the enfeebling overhaul before deciding on this as an SP ability. Currently as it stands, and even after the proposed enfeebling overhaul, this ability is entirely inadequate to be on a 30~60min timer. -
11-17-2012, 05:02 AMSunriderFirst, I thank and salute you, Camate, for the storms you continually walk through. It can't be easy and we appreciate your delivery of feedback.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
But, I don't know how many different ways it can be communicated to the developers that the players do not need or want this new idea.
In general, we hate it, and it is an otherwise superfluous addition to an issue (enfeebling) that the devs have been exponentially over-complicating since the release of Treasures of Aht Urgan. If the developers want to address enfeebling, address the resistances and immunities that have reduced enfeebling magic to obsolescence. If they do that, there will be no need for a new enfeebling-related ability. No explanation of the thoughts behind it will change the fact that it is a horrible idea.
What the players wanted was Increased Enhancing Magic potency, at DOUBLE (2X) strength and DOUBLE (2X) duration. Or, simply include Composure's effect with the increased potency, on the 1-hour cooldown timer.
This is pretty much what everyone thought would work best, what everyone agreed would be useful... this new idea is simply unacceptable.
There just aren't any other ways to say it; nobody cares what they intend with the new ability, nobody wants it. -
11-17-2012, 05:04 AMTattsWhile we're on the topic on the new special abilities, I would like to bring attention to DRGs recent change on the unlimited jump timer. There has been a lot of negative feedback regarding the recast timer jumping to 15 seconds and I would be inclined to agree. Maybe the no recast did feel excessive but it was the perfect way to invite more Dragoons into zerg events. Dragoon never had much in terms of fast raw power, not like warrior, dark knight or samurai.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
I ask you if you would speak to the Dev team about removing the recast again or at least reducing the timer to 5 seconds per jump.
If that cannot be done can Dragoons at least receive a attack boost like Berserk and Last Resort?
Maybe an attack boost for the dragoon while the wyvern's attack is reduced, could that be possible? -
11-17-2012, 05:13 AMMarkovChain
Elemental seal can resist ? What did the devs smoke ? ES cannot resist unless a job trait procs or the resist roll exceeds 95%. I mean If I cast ES blizzard 4 I'm going to get full damage 95% of the time every 10 minutes.
ES is 100% better than this ability, I think the dev are on drugs atm, seriously, after completely destroying RDM, they are now explaining us that a 30min JA that is inferior to ES (as it can still resist) is superior to ES. Sometimes I wonder if they actually play their jobs. -
11-17-2012, 05:15 AMDemon6324236
Really all we need is more potency, I can understand getting no extra duration on our spells. We do however need the extra duration of the ability itself for casting the spells. Think of Embrava, its duration is being nuked to hell, and it lasts 12.5 minutes. RDM can get 3 minute duration spells like Haste to last roughly 12.5 minutes. So I can see why a 25 minute Double Potency Haste would be over powered when we will be able to make the recast only 30 minutes. All I ask for is a simple +50~100% potency bonus for our Enhancing Magic with 3 minutes to cast spells, with that I am perfectly happy. If nothing else, start it at 50%, and increase it to 100% via merits, 10%/Merit Level.
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11-17-2012, 05:23 AMMarkovChain
I'm going to illustrate the effect of the new SP2 on sleep2 :
with ES
95% of the time you get 1:30 duration sleep
4.75% of the time you get 45s duration (the devs seem to think it's either 1:30 or full resist)
0.25% the time you get a full resist
with the new SP2
95% of the time you get 1:30 duration sleep
5% of the time you get 45s duration.
I mean it is a frigging elemental seal. -
11-17-2012, 05:38 AMPlasticleg
Unless your RDM is chain-stunning, no reason for them to /BLM. They'll generally benefit from /SCH, on average. Not going to defend how fucktarded this 2-hour is, just trying to see their (lol) reasoning.
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11-17-2012, 05:47 AMKalilla
Camate, could you fix the spelling of Invincible? They keep saying Invisible instead of Invincible :| It's just a little annoying, nothing major.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26302 -
11-17-2012, 06:05 AMSpankWustlerThis is like saying Grandpa's naked jaunts through the assisted living facility are being heavily discussed by the staff. Everybody is discussing how awful and wrinkly the new ability is, and how it is ineffectual and makes them painfully aware of human mortality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Let's say I own two army tanks. One is normal tank and one is a haunted tank, inhabited by the patriotic (and racist) spirit of J.E.B. Stuart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
My goal is to run over the neighbor's toddler, because I am deranged. Either tank will work, because in both cases, tons and tons of metal stuck on caterpillar treads are capable of crushing the life out of a small human.
The relationship between the new new Red Mage SP and Elemental Seal is exactly like this. The special benefit of the new new SP is statistically near-identical compared to a simple massive Magic Accuracy bonus. The fact that it does something special matters every bit as much as the fact that there's a racist ghost rolling over my neighbor's kid's face; the end effect is the same.
These two situations have one more thing in common. Both are totally nuts. -
11-17-2012, 06:40 AMtyrantsyn
I'm in tears after that, Thanx Spanky.
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11-17-2012, 06:52 AMNeboThe fact that you even have to try and explain this....Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Yeah. No. This ability should be given to rdm on a 10 minute timer (just like Elemental Seal), and a REAL SP2 ability given to them.
This ability is not worthy of being an SP2 ability. The fact that you need to have this explained to you is absurd.
I am so scared by all the nonesense that is coming out of the dev camp lately. Things are not looking good for the future :( -
11-17-2012, 07:27 AMMindi
wtf RDM? Is the dev team serious? really? Why the hell would RDM, the job with highest enfeebling skill and probably best enfeebling gear would need THIS? RDM was allways the job that could land anything, aslong as its not full resistant.
Redo RDM.
Either, get back to Idea 1 and improve it. Give Rdm an enhancing Buff- Special Ability. That last like 2 min, dont wear off after 1 spell and where enhancing spells can be either
a) made from self target only to party target
b) double duration
c) or both of them :3
or redo your new.. special ability to not limit it for one spell. Hold on the 60 sec duration, keep the 100% Accuracy if you want, but you have it back. Give those enfeeblings cast while the special ability is on a strong effect+ and double duration, not just normal effect. Rdm dont need help to land 1 spell 100% Rdm really dont need. If he does, he /blm and has the ability every 10 min
Mnk seems ok, nin aswell, Cor is lol aswell, especially 1
Cor should be atleast like this 1=10, 2=20, 3=30, 4=40, 5=50 6=60. 1 still sucks, but not that bad. -
11-17-2012, 07:28 AMMonchatCan you go back to the dev to explain what the RDM ability actually do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
What will be in practice the difference between elemental seal and RDM SP2?
Players believe both do the exact same, ie bypass the magic evasion checks -
11-17-2012, 07:40 AMFrankReynoldsUp next: a new 2 hour ability for thief that lowers the chances of an item NOT dropping. This is totally different from treasure hunter which increases the chances of an item dropping...Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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11-17-2012, 08:02 AMhidekaDear camate,Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Genome, proved that gaurding can activate on all physical weaponskills about 4-6 YEARS ago. however since the game does not have a guarding message, it will display as a "Miss" if zero damage is recieved. i have PERSONNALLY recieved guard skillups while taking damage from AOE (and im not the primary target, so no chance of invisible melee causing this) on Spike flail, Whirl of rage, spinning claw, Wind shear, Benthic Typoon, Whirl claws..... please learn how your games mechanics work before making a post about them.
Love Hideka. -
11-17-2012, 08:23 AMZuidar
To be honest, I liked some of the new two hour abilities. I see some new 2 hours Job abilities such as SMN, DRG, WHM, BLU, BRD, SAM really nicely. However, what I don't understand is why is it that Corsair is not getting the ability to do 3 rolls, or Red Mage isn't getting that ability that enhances the potency enhancing magic?
I'm really sorry for asking to the Dev Team, but Is there really an actual balance problem with corsairs being able to do 3 rolls, or RDMs with increased potency and duration to Enhancing Magic with their new abilities? -
11-17-2012, 08:40 AMCalintzpsoMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
http://www.waffles-production.com/pu...h31m12s127.png
Less Talk, Make it happen.