[dev1049] New weapon skills

Now I will be honest, i figured the new WS's were going to suck, becuase SE loves to disappoint, but it just makes No sense that you need to put in 1 million EXP for a mediocre WS... What is even the point of unlocking them if they are not going to be better then WS we already have? It is Pretty much wasted effort to do that much work for WS that is going to sub par, and its not even going to be needed as a proc. Other then kick ass animations, where is the motivation to even bother?

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

It's not. It's the "PLD effect" or if you'd like, the "relic effect." Essentialy people with relic/mythic/empyrean have pissed and moaned like they have in the past untill SE caved. Leading them to nerf anything new so they can hold ontil thier oold outdated garbage so they can still feel accomplished. Simple realy.

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Not really. If that was the issue they could just add buffs to those weapons in the same update. It's also worth noting that the weaponskills could have been a boon to relics with weak weaponskills if implemented properly, in addition to buffing non-relic/mythic/emp weapons. Excal and Requiescat, Kikoku and Blade: Shun, etc. Spharai and Twashtar/Mandau will actually benefit in this manner, with the caveat that the daggers will still use their unique ws when stacked, but that's two of the handful of useful ws this update when it could have been a buff to many, many players.

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Originally Posted by Vold

Heh, I'll tell ya this much: They damn sure been providing me with unforgettable experiences for 8 years. I ain't ever going to forget what it's like to play a SE MMO. And I'm not talking positives here. Though, they're definitely there to give credit where it's due.

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Yup, most people who quit and come back, or still playing this game do it because of the time invested - and some put up with the negatives for years since it has become an "investment" and we do get attached to our characters. Hence to save you the pain and neglect - just don't bother subscribing to FF14. Knowing this company's history and their ways of handling customer's supports, let's just spare all of us the aggravation and enjoy FF11 while it last.

At this point, everything has been said several times I'm sure, but I guess my hope is that if people keep complaining the devs will have no choice but to listen.

I'm not concerned with the cost in exp to max out a ws, 100 merits isn't that bad really. What is upsetting is that even though we are limited to 3, they want to make them weaker than the weapon skills we've had for years.

Would it really be so bad to let us have a new ws that when fully merited, would be superior to all others for that weapon excluding relic/empyrean? No other weapon skills are limited like this. We can quest every quested ws, unlock every mythic ws, and get every relic and empyrean weapon, (technically, if not realistically); these should be special.

I'll repeat myself since I actually did go and check out the new weaponskill when I saw the test server got updated today and say again that. You did exactly what you said you were going to do and all hope was extinguished from my heart. I absolutely loathe the cock tease presentation axe and club got. So again I will say that it is monumentally unbalanced that you continually throw these weapon classes skills in the shitter. Club just went from being the first thing I wanted fully merited to the last thing I'll merit if I happen to have the points laying around. Absolutely and utterly disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

I think the point of these weapon skills are not to be the strongest, most damaging but rather to be utility weapon skills that either provide a unique enfeebling effect(Crit Evasion Down), restore MP(Entropy) or provide very good damage for jobs that don't have the unique weapon skills available to them(Realmizer for jobs that can't use Hexa Strike, Stardiver for jobs that can't use Drakesbane, Requiscat for jobs that can't use Vorpal Blade or Atonement). For the powerful/strong weapon skills, see: Relic/Mythic/Empyrean. Some of them are slight upgrades (Dagger/GS/GK) or are situationally useful like H2H.

Keep in mind these are not JOB SPECIFIC weapon skills so they were designed with the purpose of being broadly useful to all jobs who can use the weapon. The jobs that specialize in said weapon have more damaging weapon skills probably from above state Relic/Mythic/Empyrean. These were meant to give good WS to jobs that use the weapon but can't use those unique WS while at the same time providing something unique for the jobs that do specialize in the weapon.

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Mythic/empyeran axe WS arent made for damage not to beat rampage anyways, infact emperyan axe is widely considered to be the weakest DD emperyan.

This is the anti-claimax that FFXIV needs to build it's playerbase.
Anyone who believes that FFXI isn't being nerfed so that people will leave is naive.
Anyone from SE who believes that everyone who leaves FFXI will go to FFXIV is also naive!

Tanaka was pulling this kind of crap long before the he even started boiling up the shit stew that is FF14. There is no grand scheme. He is just a bad, out of touch, game producer and Ito is his lapdog. If they wanted to force people off of 11 they would just turn the servers off.

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/o...kafication.png

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I'm not sure exactly what that picture metaphorically represents or how, but that doesn't make it any less funny.

Resolution has a much more minor attack penalty and may actually suck less after the changes to it, so maybe there's one bit of hope left in the bottom of Pandora's Box after all? Of course, the changes to Ruinator are still lurking in shadow and it probably took up Resolution's 40% attack/cRatio/pDif/whatever penalty burden.

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Originally Posted by Kalilla

The simple fact is this: We lost 16 servers since Abyssea was released and our servers have the same average population per day before it came out.

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Umm no.

Server numbers were down long before Abyssea. SE took underpopulated servers and moved them to medium populated servers in two stages. No server has been stacked more then once. Membership was actually up shortly after the level 85 cap was raised and stayed up until after the 95 and Voidwatch v2 catastrophe. It's now going to be going down the toilet after reading SE's "interview" and seeing their new strategy for updates. Prior to abyssea and the official forums we figured SE dev's were just clueless and inexperienced with MMO's. Recently we've seen that it's not about them not knowing but them just not caring about their membership. Players would stick around for an incompetent dev team if they really like the game, they absolutely won't stick around for a dev team that gives them the flying finger.

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Originally Posted by Kalilla

The simple fact is this: We lost 16 servers since Abyssea was released and our servers have the same average population per day before it came out.

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I belive 8 of those servers got crunched just before abyssea came out, but you would not know that would you? And even before aby this game almost went belly up untill they added FOV. sqare ENIX has had major issues for along time its nothing new under the sun unlwss you were born yesterday. The biggest problem I have right now is everything is ToM, NPC quests should of never been under this system imo, it used to have a rich storyline with actual fun quests.. I really think Tanaka knows nothing of this and the proc system is evident of it.

Why do ws that we work hard on, and/or look really cool, have to be subpar?

I just got my empy polearm and that ws is such low damage that people in my ls prolly talk behind my back. DO you have any idea how demoralizing it is to put that much work into a videogame and still see penta thrust beat your new ws!?
why does chant du cynge do a steady 5-6k dmg then? even 2-4k dmg when im using MINKINS for utility? This ws camlanns maybe gets 2k if im lucky. It sets up aftermath? great. Maybe i could set up after math, then use some stardivers. I might be happy with that. But now people who spend all their time in this game (we need these people, b/c it shows how far the game can go) say with testing that this ws will not even beat drakesbane
No one gets 30k alexandrites anymore. And if they did that, they are tired of looking at that animation. think about it
It obvoius this update comes during the starwars release week. That is all good really, because i like ffxi a lot i have for years. People get what they want out of the game, granted. But it seems to me that even the people who are diehard hardcore are saying they are tired of drakesbane, or other wss, and would like to see something new.
The point is moot if you say empy ws should be better than these new ws. Look at my poor sad little camlann's. People that dont really play drg look at that and compare the dmg to their ws. Why not make them have to use an empy ws to proc aftermath, then use the new wss if it is indeed viable, in the same sort of manner? Why does it look so cool, but do less damage than skewer? the economy is not good right now, peopel have to work more and stuff, they come home to try to get a rise out of the game. If the veterans are like meh im tired of this animation, and the new people are all going to go try starwars anyway, and the people in between are trying to still enjoy the game, why continue to milk the same cow for 5 years? Animation has come such a long way since then, i think people will pay to play simply to look at them.
BUT ITS NOT FUN if everytime you want to enjoy the animation, people question your methods, call you gimp, because it simply is not as good as something like drakesbane.
Try being a drg lately anyway. short of being rediculously good at dealing damage, it is HARD to justify bringing this job anywhere inside abyessea, especially if you dont want to ruby mobs.; no native stuns, redundant weapon procs, 1 viable support job, /samurai always! (give store tp 1 to 99 drg? then maybe i can get a decent 5 hit without this 1 job? ). the defensive wyvern is so much better for cetain things, and i never get to use it with a 5 hit. it makes me a sad panda

Yeah drg empy ws blows we told our resident drg to understand we get his weapon but he still has to come whm to events lol.

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Originally Posted by Camate

With today’s test server update we have implemented all the aforementioned adjustments.

We plan on making adjustments as necessary after the version update takes place, so please try out the weapon skills with these adjustments and let us know your feedback.

Also, with this update, you will need to place merit points into the new weapon skills you would like to use and you will need to fulfill the below requirements:

-Level 96+
Talk to the Mog House Moogle and set your level to 96+

-Completion of the quest "Martial Mastery"
1. Talk to the Mog House Moogle and obtain merit points
2. Receive the quest “Martial Mastery“ from the Nomad Moogle in Ru’Lude Gardens
3. Talk to the Nomad Moogle again and complete the quest.

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we have already given AMPLE feedback on the adverse effects of altering any of the current weaponskills in an adverse nature. you have continued to ignore the feed back we have given you, or the dev team has ignored it. Prepare for alot of canceled accounts in the near future. you guys are making the mistake of going back to 2005 tactics. this is a ginormous mistake. you will be shooting yourself in the proverbial Foot in profits if you continue to let down the player base like this.

you guys go so far as to call one of your most successfull periods of this game ( the abyssea period) a failure. i GAURENTEE you that your account reactivation numbers and new accounts created went up by a whole hell of alot compared to any other expansion set.

i for one will be dropping this game for WOW once the pandarea update comes out. its been my life long dream to be a pandaren brewmaster.

Pandas ftw!
Altough I hate posts like "OMG I'm dropping game X for game Y if you really put patch Z on live servers!!11!one!"
Like they care what me or you will do lol
Now if it was 50% of the FFXI population quitting things it would be different, but they're not THAT stupid, they're well aware that's not happening and that it's just a minority of us whining (put me in the group of whiners!)

To be fair to Entropy, BLM, WAR, and BST will now have a weapon skill on scythe comparable to Guillotine. And it restores BLM MP? Sounds great for soloing or for BLM to try out being a physical DD, for whatever it's worth.

I know that there are others out there like me who play jobs the way few others play them. I go into cruor parties as BRD/DNC and am allowed to be a main DD because I can keep up with the Empyrean holders (part in thanks to solo skillchaining darkness and distortion). There are so many ways to play a job. If they didnmt want BRD to be able to do this, they wouldn't have given it the ability to cap gear haste, possess loads of attack gear, and the ability to wield daggers (Mandau/Twash).

It's like BLU/WHM: an amazing healer and those who do play that style probably excel at it.

oh dont get me wrong, ive been playing this game for nearly a damn decade, ive never quit this game over anything. ive been playing wow for just about as long. most people dont actualy realize how poorly theyre treated in this game untill they go and play a diffrent game. if you run into a broken quest in this game what is step one for the gm's?

FF11 GM : Response time 2-4 Hours ( 10 minutes for auto response.)
Step 1: Question to determine if the player knows how the basic mechanics of the game works.
Hidden step 1.5: Never actualy look into the issue.
Step 2: refer them to a community Site (lol)
Step 3: Tell them to re install
Step 4: Tell them you cant help them any further and to have a nice day.

Wow GM (1-2 Hours some times less, depends on quest issues)
Step 1: Ask what part of the quest is broken
Step 2: try for yourself, if its broken proceed to 3A If its a playerside bug Proceed to 3b
Step 3A: Provide charachter with quest completion and all related rewards for the quest.
Step 3B: Reset the charachters quest to the begining and provide all related quest items that were lost due to reset.
step 4: Apologise for the inconvience and restore them to playability.

when wow playerbase says " hey guys, great game, but XXX is dumb, or XXX is too difficult, or XXX is broken" 9/10 their Development team will fix the problem or reach a middle ground with the player base expediently.

when final fantasy's player base says " hey guys, great game, but XXX is dumb, or XXX is too difficult, or XXX is broken" .02%/10 their dev team will fix the problem or reach a middle ground... eventually.

Case and point: when new summoner blood pacts were released on test server, all the pacts were displayed as "." and unusable. instead of adressing the issue, the community/gm/dev staff INSISTED that it was a user based error, when in fact it was a server side error. took them weeks to realize "whoops".

im by no means promoting another game here, its just seriously; we had a GREAT dev team for abyssea. it was this games GREATEST SUCCESS. Square enix has the balls to take that dev team away and put LOLtanaka back in charge so we can go back to the days of 1% drop rates and spending 2-3 years to try getting an item, or 30000 alexandrite. or half a year to farm ichor/nyzul points. i mean SERIOUSLY. get a goddarn clue, and PLEASE pass this message along to the development team:

YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG, YOU WILL KILL THIS GAME. YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO PLAYERS BEFORE YOU LISTEN TO YOUR OWN EGO'S. THIS IS NOT YOUR GAME, IT IS OUR GAME; WITHOUT US YOU ARE NOTHING. WITHOUT YOU, WE MOVE ON. THE SOONER YOU REALIZE THIS, THE SOONER FF11 GETS MORE SUBSCRIBERS, AND THE SOONER 14 STOPS SUCKING.

oh and we are LONG over due for a legitimate Expansion pack. not this mini Xpac crap.

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Originally Posted by JiltedValkyrie

To be fair to Entropy, BLM, WAR, and BST will now have a weapon skill on scythe comparable to Guillotine. And it restores BLM MP? Sounds great for soloing or for BLM to try out being a physical DD, for whatever it's worth.

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Black Mage can not learn Entropy.

Wait till the patch notes. I bet they use wording like, new powerful weaponskills to unlock, or something along those lines.

i am excited acutally to see how the new 99 stuff works out. Things can change, weapon skills tweaked. keep in mind that players in this game have all sorts of different status, and have only done so many things. What may have seemed easy to you in earlier years of the game, can be more difficult to other players now.

perhaps the dev team sort of goes for a ws that is relatively close, but less damage than some of the higher hitting wss (like drakesbane from nyzule isle or some good empy weaponskills like ukku fury). someone without drakesbane would benefit from stardiver ( i would think anyway ).

This is understandable, and this applies to an empy user without drakesbane too, its not like camlann is the ukko fury of polearms..... (as much as someone with camlann wants the ws itself to do more dmg and uses it for aftermath, once you get this weapon, you quickly see this ws is no jishnu's radiance)

but something else to consider is that the main majority of drgs DO have drakesbane, and that they want to use the new weapon skill too. looking at that ws all this time gets old. and these people are what makes up a very large chunk of long time ffxi players

MY SOLUTION? what about something along these lines? possibly:

quests, or rediculous amount of merits, or items, or target mobs, something, to make it possible to increase the damage of the new weaponskill, on a regular basis. some sort of enhancment bonus added to the damage, so that players can improve the new weaponskills that they like. Its only fair that the player must have all weapon skills for that job in order to be able to improve the new one.



So for example, you could have a regular, and more HQ versions of stardiver, that could eventually beat out drakesbane, even if its not by much. Inside abyessea the super amounts of crit, drakesbane ftw, ok. But outside it would be nice to see some stardiving! But only if you really work at it (like it is with everything in this game) its the same for something like strining pummel and pup as well (cept victory smite actaully does some damage, unlike *ahem camlann's........)

This keeps newer players occupied at getting drakesbane or whatever else so as not to skip the hard earned step other players had to take, first having to get that ws before being able to get the full potential of stardiver, (or whatever weapon skill on whichever job).

if i want to impulse drive, i should be able too!!! na, jk, but yea, that would be sad imo to see starpulse drive (as in never see stardiver used over drakesbane) it looks so awesome

I have what I hope is a very simple question. I play this game in most of my free time, but I have a job, do play other Final Fantasies, and have only had a laptop capable of playing Final Fantasy XI for a little over a year. There is a lot to do in this game, and a lot of barriers, so as a result yes I do not have an Empy.

I main DRG and macro Penta Thrust. Is Stardiver better than Penta Thrust?

Also if its not as simple as that any advice on situational use of WSs that would be welcome too.

from what i hear it will be better than penta.

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Originally Posted by Jackstin

I have what I hope is a very simple question. I play this game in most of my free time, but I have a job, do play other Final Fantasies, and have only had a laptop capable of playing Final Fantasy XI for a little over a year. There is a lot to do in this game, and a lot of barriers, so as a result yes I do not have an Empy.

I main DRG and macro Penta Thrust. Is Stardiver better than Penta Thrust?

Also if its not as simple as that any advice on situational use of WSs that would be welcome too.

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start climbing nyzul isle now, theyre gonna be revamping it soon and adding in 100+ new floors, so get your 1-100 cleared out now while you have the chance. get drakes bane unlocked and never look back.

i heard a rumor that they will change it soon so u can solo it pretty far. im unsure tho

So far, this thread has ether confirmed beyond doubt, or pointed out for the first time:

[SIZE=5]1) The devs DO NOT LISTEN to the player feedback they asked for [/SIZE]

- Ex: The general consensus among players, baring a few bright-eyed fools who refuse to see the reality of the situation, is that, while these ws have beautiful animations, these ws themselves were HORRIBLY designed an implemented. 100 merits, or 1,000,000 exp for each WS to even compete with a ws the player got 39 levels earlier is outrageous, and limiting these ws to only 3 per character is kicking us when we're down.

[SIZE=5]2) Instead of listening to player complaints, they look for things players LIKE and remove them![/SIZE]
- Ex: Realmrazer was, perhaps, a touch to strong. However that does not mean that it should suddenly be relegated to being weaker than hexastrike. Ruinator was PERFECT, but they decided that it was to strong.

[SIZE=5]3) The Devs favorite job is samurai.[/SIZE]
- Ex: I am NOT going to say tachi: shoha needs a nerf. I'm pointing out that Tachi: Shoha is the strongest ws of this bunch and completely ignores their apparent desire to make all of these WS sidegrades to level 60 ws by completely trouncing every other gkatana ws. But ruinator was stronger than rampage, on axe, which only bsts and bored wars use. And realmrazer was to strong for club, which only rare melee whm and really, really bored wars and plds use (now, anyway, since they stopped giving blus melee clubs).

[SIZE=5]4) The devs have no grasp on how we play this game. [/SIZE]
- Ex: It's obvious due to their insistence on balancing everything for super rare situations that never ever ever ever ever ever happen. "Stardiver has to be weak because jobs other than drg can use it!" Except drg is the only one that uses polearm for serious DD. Sams do occasionally, yes, but that doesn't mean stardiver should be so weak. I've never used polearm for DD purposes on my warrior.

[SIZE=5]5) [/SIZE][SIZE=6][SIZE=5]The devs don't understand the meaning of the word "Balance"[/SIZE] [/SIZE](or when they say "Balance" they're saying some obscure Japanese word that means something different but doesn't translate even remotely well in to English and no one has pointed out this fact)

- Ex: The devs release the FINAL ws, the ultimate non-relic/mythic/empyrean WS based on skill for each weapon to achieve. Of course, to get these weapon skills, the player must first reach level 96 and 357 skill, then complete a quest that requires them to sacrifice 150,000 exp to be allowed to begin the work to access them. Upon doing this, the player will be presented with an apparent option of either having them all but weaker versions, or selecting only three to share between all of their jobs.

Except the "weaker" versions are so weak that they can only compete with ws gained around player level 25 or 30... and the full versions are almost all designed only to be the same strength as the weapon skills available at player level 60 (exceptions being Tachi: Shoha, Last Stand, and Exenterator until they nerf those too. Resolution may apply. Shattersoul is excluded because all other staff weaponskills were just awful, and improving on them was easier than blinking)... and to achieve that, each ws requires a 1,000,000 exp investment.

To point out how absurd this is; a warrior grinds his job all the way to 99. This staggering feat has required the player to gather over 2,000,000 exp, plus an additional 220,000 exp for the 22 merits required by the limit break quests, and more for any deaths along the way. The reward awaiting this warrior, the master of weapons, at the end of his trek is another trek. He must gather another 1,150,000 exp, asking him to completely start over and gather the same amount of exp required for him to go from level 1 to level 82, and almost 83 (12,350 exp less). And his reward for leveling warrior from level 1 to level 82, twice? A flashy looking attack that is absolutely no better than the ability he learned at level 55 (ruinator is rampage II), or even more insulting, is actually weaker than the ability he learned at 60 (upheavel is weaker than raging rush)

That the devs consider giving these ws a 1,000,000 exp prerequisite to be usable, and even then intentionally designing the weapon skills to give absolutely no modicum of improvement over weapon skills that the player gained thirty to forty levels prior is just insulting.

Either make these merited weaponskills a LOT stronger, or remove the prerequisites and requirements to obtaining them. The amount of work required and the severe limitation on choice REQUIRES the ws be amazing. The ws as they are now, however, WOULD BE PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE if they were learned naturally at a skill level with out any quests or merits or anything else.

Right now, you're asking us to level our jobs over from scratch in order to receive shiny balls of garbage.

Camate, Bayohne, I realize that there are a significantly large number of feedback posts, and they you guys cannot possibly translate and send them all through, but we really need to know, are you guys giving the devs the correct feedback that we're giving?

There are only two explanations for this currently: explanation 1 is that there is something getting lost in translation of "THESE NEW WEAPON SKILLS ARE HORRIBLE AND NOT WORTH THE EFFORT, STOP MAKING THEM EVEN WORSE", or explanation 2, the devs are receiving our feedback, but are outright ignoring it because they think we they know more about how players play this game than the players themselves, which could not be further from the truth.

I really don't want to blame our awesome community moogles, because they do a lot of great work, but if the latter is the case, then there is no reason for these forums to even exist.

I was just realizing... Ninja gets Great Katana skill of 357 naturally: why can't NIN use Tachi: Shoha?

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Originally Posted by JiltedValkyrie

I was just realizing... Ninja gets Great Katana skill of 357 naturally: why can't NIN use Tachi: Shoha?

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I don't remember them being skill based, or am I wrong? Maybe in the sense that only jobs with C+ or higher skill rating have access to those WS, which NIN doesn't (C- for Great Katana). It's still not based on any particular skill level, from what I understand.

Well...on the bright side, Resolution HAS to be the best Great Sword weaponskill, right? I mean....you can't screw away a WS and make a 5 hitter on part with Spinning Slash...


Right?

Just unlocked Resolution and am tinkering with it now. At 100% TP and 1/5 merits, it does exactly the same damage as Spinning Slash. At 300% TP, it does roughly 1300 damage.

Witholding judgement until I have more merits into it, but since it's base is at least on par with Spinning Slash, I'm cautiously optimistic.

(In Abyssea as a PLD)

It's going to be better than Spinning Slash. It rivals or surpasses Torcleaver in many situations.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

It's going to be better than Spinning Slash. It rivals or surpasses Torcleaver in many situations.

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Aye, I saw those videos, but that was before SE "Balanced" them... I'm just making sure Resolution didn't get a huge breakoff like the rest did.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Aye, I saw those videos, but that was before SE "Balanced" them... I'm just making sure Resolution didn't get a huge breakoff like the rest did.

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they all have a huge break off at 1/5, 2/5 and 3/5. almost all of them have one at 4/5 too. By this I mean they all completely suck until 5/5

So it's at a spinning slash level until 5/5 where it becomes a 5 hit torcleaver? o.o

Dear SE,

...Who the hell designs this shit?

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Originally Posted by Alerith

So it's at a spinning slash level until 5/5 where it becomes a 5 hit torcleaver? o.o

Dear SE,

...Who the hell designs this shit?

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have you been following the last week of people testing these ws at all?

So where do you start these Weapon skills? I couldn't find the guy on widescan , was the data mining wrong?

Talk to the moogle again after you have completed genkai 10.