Please don't nerf beastmaster

If you're suggesting other jobs need to be strengthened wouldn't that suggest you accept BST is stronger than other jobs atm despite all the protests and claims that it isn't. I'm not saying I disagree but it's not SEs way to strengthen other jobs, the whole Rudra's Storm fiasco is a testament to that.

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Originally Posted by Tidis

If you're suggesting other jobs need to be strengthened wouldn't that suggest you accept BST is stronger than other jobs atm despite all the protests and claims that it isn't. I'm not saying I disagree but it's not SEs way to strengthen other jobs, the whole Rudra's Storm fiasco is a testament to that.

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No. that's not what it means at all.

What it means is "I don't think there's anything wrong with X, but people who play far more powerful jobs are complaining that job X is suddenly popular. Job X is going to get nerfed, which I don't think it deserves, because of a loud but vocal minority who are upset something is stealing the limelight from their baby. Instead of nerfing a job which I think is perfectly fine, I would rather see jobs which I think already either fine as they are or OP get buffed to make them OP or even more OP, respectively, than see a decent job ground into the dust because of a few jealous BLUs."

And the "Rudra's Storm" fiasco was that THFs were doing really high spike damage (making really big numbers). Meanwhile, jobs like SAM, that do much total damage over time (lots of smaller numbers that add up to more than the one or two big numbers) saw THFs making really big numbers when properly buffed and employing job abilities and positioning, and got very, very upset. All a SAM needs to do to do good damage, assuming they and the THF are equally well geared, are buffs. The THF needs buffs, another party member, and job abilities to use that require that other party member. All a SAM has to do is "get buffed, spam Fudo every 3-4 seconds" and do more damage than a THF did holding 3kTP to do a SATA or SA or TA Rudra's Storm once a minute.

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Originally Posted by Draylo-

"Basically everyone responding on BG" is all BSTs that have their jimmies rustled because something negative about BST was said. Even in this new content they can toss pets at NMs and sit back and spam curing items and clear faster than DD oriented groups. You are the one downplaying their potential just to try and make it seem like it isn't as bad as it is. No I'm not doing any anti-BST movement, I've posted my opinion in this thread and a couple times on BG when someone tried to stop people from brainstorming strategies by saying "just toss pets at it!" Otherwise I don't even mention it. Then you bring your entire LS in here to rate your posts up and respond with silly comments about other jobs and wanting them nerfed, to retaliate against my opinion. Sounds like someone is scared and being really immature.

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More like they are tired of you're trying to stir up anti-bst sentiment. People mention throwing pet bodies at something to soak up dmg or have something left after that dumb 9999 dmg move but that actually using pet strategies can result in much longer kills if they aren't well geared and you go off the deep end with omg this means pet jobs are OP and everyone tells you to shut it to the point where you get warnings for it.

And I don't tell my ls to do anything and only 2 ever post (1 of which I thought was still banned) so yeah pretty sure it's more than that rating me up. But it's really cute that you actually think about this so much that you come up with this kind of stuff and have to actually try to attack my character.

And the stuff about other jobs is satire. I don't actually think these jobs should be nerfed... I'm merely pointing out how they can compare to and surpass jugs. If one job should be nerfed for 1 reason then other jobs that can do the same should also be. Or neither should. And I think that's what really scares you about comparing other jobs... because in reality other jobs actually do compare and when everyone sees other jobs can do similar things then they all need nerfs or none do

PS. You keep saying you are just stating your opinions about bst and such... but is that really it? I mean look back at your posts... half of them are about other players and not the game or bst. How many times have you said so and so is trying too hard, or trying to cover up how good bst really is, or only saying that because they use bst a lot, or just because they are a pet ls, or are immature and scared etc. You quite frequently talk about the players motives or character vice anything about the game. While admittedly some people including myself have stretched the topic some at least it was about the game. And yes I have recently stooped down some to also respond in kind in the heat of the moment. And I'm sorry. So could we start keeping the discussion about the actual game from now on?

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Originally Posted by Ulth

Well the thing with the pet DT- is actually another reason why people think bst needs a nerf. Since pets really don't have a need for tp, their damage isn't hindered as much from full timing a damage taken set. Where as if I were to use my pdt set on thf my accuracy would hit the floor as most of thf's dt set is skirmish 1 armor and emet harness which its accuracy varies based on if you are in the popular unity or not.

Also even with throwing all my kindred seals and login points at savory shanks I am still without a defending ring.

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While somewhat true part of that is being on light DD gear. But there are some ways to compensate like taking advantage of offensive/defensive buffs that pets don't get. Well except on those dispel spamming nms.

But yeah light DDs will have the hardest times and need some more hybrid sets. Heavy DDs will have better hybrid options, mages and ranged jobs will just stay away and pup/bst can put pet dt and acc together on a lot of pieces and smn only needs to keep their avatar alive for a few seconds a minute while it's in range and then doesn't care if it dies after.... well melee mages would have a hard time too but yeah...

Dring droprate is an issue as well but is somewhat comparable to tons of duskorbs. Both can cost a ton of money and you can still fail to improve your dt setup. Though a tad easier to buy stones than shanks last I checked

Well traditionally light DD is suppose to have their own way of negating damage. This would fall under the evasion skill, but that is so useless I don't even have any idea on where to start to make it useful. Adjusting every piece of light DD gear to what evasion should have been seems like too much work. Increasing the amount of evasion from the evasion bonus trait could be bad for players if monsters with it also get an increase. Then there are all the tp moves that just can't be dodged or parried.

Also I have to say I hate it that knockback moves knock me back even when they do miss.

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Originally Posted by Ulth

Well traditionally light DD is suppose to have their own way of negating damage. This would fall under the evasion skill, but that is so useless I don't even have any idea on where to start to make it useful. Adjusting every piece of light DD gear to what evasion should have been seems like too much work. Increasing the amount of evasion from the evasion bonus trait could be bad for players if monsters with it also get an increase. Then there are all the tp moves that just can't be dodged or parried.

Also I have to say I hate it that knockback moves knock me back even when they do miss.

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Even adjusting each armor wouldn't really be enough. I remember seeing a testing awhile back on I think it was the Wrathare or some other high lvl nm and even with tons of evasion gear and multiple evasion buffs and -acc debuffs it still capped hit rate on the players. More anecdotal but I play pld a lot and I tend to still get hit most the time even when flash is up. It seems like SE designs high lvl nms these days to be able to hit basically no matter what. Which I find rather sad.... I kind of miss evasion/blink tanking on thf and nin but seems SE is scared to death of it which I don't understand... I mean it still wont even come close to pld or run survivability even with capped evasion so why make evading so hard? While I understand maybe doing it for some nms as something special... I mean after all they make some unblockable or unparryable it seems like the massive accuracy has been applied to all high lvl content

As far as knockback yeah... apparently if anyone gets hit everyone gets knockedback and that is supposedly working as intended....

The thing is that person might have been on the threshold of actually being evasive. The difference between capped accuracy and floored accuracy is something like 150. which was a pretty sizable gap at level 75, but a very small window at 119. However if they were to do something about evasion so light DD could use it for survival you shouldn't need every buff and debuff to make it happen. Most of buffs that have a limit on which you could choose like brd, cor, and geo are already going towards attack and accuracy. It would be nice if a ninja could just cap evasion on a nm with Kurayami: Ni. Or maybe even make Blade: Kamu not the worst thing ever. One hit, 1 ftp, -10 accuracy, I can't believe it didn't see some sort of upgrade during the one hand update.

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Originally Posted by Tidis

If you're suggesting other jobs need to be strengthened wouldn't that suggest you accept BST is stronger than other jobs atm despite all the protests and claims that it isn't. I'm not saying I disagree but it's not SEs way to strengthen other jobs, the whole Rudra's Storm fiasco is a testament to that.

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BLU is incredibly powerful and just as popular as BST right now. Practically nothing get's done without a PLD while NIN and RUN sit in a corner. WHM is in every single party. SAM is still the king of front line Damage. Mages can still blow up everything from a safe distance. I've seen RNGs from your server brag about out damaging well geared BSTs in Escha and Sinister Reign.

Pets are better at one thing. Staying alive. That is a symptom of bad HP / Def scaling and bad enemy attack scaling. If they nerf BST, people will use SMN or RNG or SCH instead (I posted videos of SCH and SMN soloing all kinds of things like Delve, AA fights and Escha NMs in this thread and received a 10 day ban for it. gotta love the OF. ) and those jobs will (according to your logic) be overpowered and need to be nerfed because other jobs will still suck at staying alive. Eventually, as the nerf train continues, all jobs have an equal chance of getting one shotted because no job is allowed to have better defensive techniques and then nothing get's played any more but whatever job does the most damage (let's be honest, it'll be SAM).

I've done every piece of content in the game without BSTs just fine. I have people in my LS who flat out refuse to bring a BST to anything because they are butthurt like the other posters here. I just switch to RNG, SAM, THF, DNC, MNK, BLU, BLM or GEO and laugh at the banality of it all. Someone is always butt hurt because their favorite job isn't automatically given a spot in every single piece of content and they have to Job Change once in a while.

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Originally Posted by Ulth

Well the thing with the pet DT- is actually another reason why people think bst needs a nerf. Since pets really don't have a need for tp, their damage isn't hindered as much from full timing a damage taken set. Where as if I were to use my pdt set on thf my accuracy would hit the floor as most of thf's dt set is skirmish 1 armor and emet harness which its accuracy varies based on if you are in the popular unity or not.

Also even with throwing all my kindred seals and login points at savory shanks I am still without a defending ring.

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Just based on Skirmish gear, my pet gives up 8% crit rate on axes and 35 strength or 25% haste to get DT- on those armor pieces. Or another 20 ACC and 20 ATT if I used the anwig salade instead of despair helm. I lose another 5% double attack for the DT- earrings. Contrary to what you believe, TP does matter. Which is why you see BSTs spending millions on TP bonus axes.

Physical:
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ipetam -4%
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Lithelimb_Cap -3%
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Twilight_Torque -5%
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Emet_Harness_%2B1 -6%
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Qaaxo_Mitaines -3%
https://www.bg-wiki.com/index.php/Buremte_Gloves Phys-4% M - 2%
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Defending_Ring DT-10%
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Patricius_Ring -5%
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Kaabnax_Trousers -4%
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Qaaxo_Leggings -3%

A magical set is easier to build, but could be harder to make use of depending what you're fighting.

D. Ring: I did about 5 mil a day (about 7 hours total per day) in salvage runs and bought shanks for my mule. It took me about 10 days (@50 shanks) to get him one. I was unlucky. Based on 5% drop rate, it should take most people less than half that time. Even if you do one salvage run a day, it should take less than a month. If you don't have one, you should drop what you're doing and work on it. It's should be in your end game gear sets for literally every job in the game. If you are incredibly unlucky and never get one despite trying all these years, that sucks and I feel for you, but the game shouldn't be balanced around your bad luck.

With the exception of the D. Ring, pretty much every item on that list can be obtained in roughly an hour (Give or take, depending on luck). That's about 44% PDT- with very minimal loss of Acc. Even with a dark ring in place of the D ring, it's 40%. Is it the best damage output gear? No. But it's still good enough to hit just about anything that you would hit in your regular TP set using the appropriate buffs and food for that level of content and an alive DD does 100% more damage than a Dead one.

And other jobs like SAM etc. have even better options for mixing DT- with TP sets.


Like I said and keep saying, other jobs are better than BST at everything in the game except soaking damage. A simple change to defense or HP scaling could even that out to where front line jobs wouldn't die all the time and BST would be back on equal footing in the events where it is used.

DDs not understanding -DT gear is something that has made me literally slam my head into a wall over because nothing else, even though there was no one to see, could express my sheer frustration with the situation. It doesn't matter how much theoretical damage you can do if you're eating dirt because you got hit once and died, while the person in DT gear who "only" has 80% of your theoretical damage output does two orders of magnitude more damage than you do -- because you're eating dirt.

I understand BST has more problems with this than other jobs, due to needing to gear both the pet and the master, but one can pretty easily get 21 DT between a good Dark Ring, a D Ring, and Twilight Torque, which increases your 'effective' HP by ~26%. Which doesn't sound like much, but that's the difference between a 1500 damage move killing you at 1400 HP, or surviving with 215 HP and getting healed or backing out until you're healed. Too many people have problems understanding that. And now, to stop derailing the thread.