Temper info

the LATENT effect on the chimeric (the double attack) works on any hand, regardless.

the additional enspell damage however, only effects it. wether you mainhand it or offhand it.

so no, there is no reason to ever offhand the chimeric in favor of mainhanding the joyeuse. ever. at all.






ever.

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Originally Posted by Doombringer

eh... death blossom IS better than savage blade, but evisceration SHOULD be even better than that, and if your in aby it's not even close. if your evisceration is under performing it prolly has something to do with your personal dagger vs. your personal sword. rdm does have a pretty short and sad list of daggers. i was stuck with blau dolch all the way until twilight knife, whereas anyone can put together a respectable sword through the magian trial elemental paths.

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It would be an interesting set of numbers. 5+1 hit Evis with a D40 dagger at 30% DEX WSC vs 3+1 hit DB with a D57 Sword at 50% MND 30% STR. Back at 75 both DB and Evis averaged out the same for me, I think now it would be in favor of DB outside aby (absolute no contest inside due to RR madness). I blame our lack of dagger options for it. If we had the Magian daggers then we could create a set of DEX / STR daggers and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Back at 75 both DB and Evis averaged out the same for me

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In my experience, damage rating has little to no effect on Aeolian Edge, so I think the thing to compare to Death Blossom would be that (basically assuming a sub without advanced Sword WS access). So, if it isn't too troublesome, what has been your experience between the damage of AE and DB?

Edit: While I was under the impression Death Blossom was magical (apparently I can't read the description on the wiki despite looking at it a dozen times :() the point I originally wanted to make still stands - when deciding on sword vs. dagger for weapon skill access when you are /NIN or /DNC, which is the better weapon skill, AE or DB?

DB is a physical weaponskill. It's Savage blade with an extra hit and better ftp mostly, and a fairly weak -magic evasion effect which varies by TP.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

In my experience, damage rating has little to no effect on Aeolian Edge, so I think the thing to compare to Death Blossom would be that (basically assuming a sub without advanced Sword WS access). So, if it isn't too troublesome, what has been your experience between the damage of AE and DB?

Edit: While I was under the impression Death Blossom was magical (apparently I can't read the description on the wiki despite looking at it a dozen times :() the point I originally wanted to make still stands - when deciding on sword vs. dagger for weapon skill access when you are /NIN or /DNC, which is the better weapon skill, AE or DB?

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Yeah lol, its ok we all do it sometimes.

Death Blossom is slightly weaker then Swift Blade but otherwise the same. 50% MND 30% STR 1.25 fTP and three hits.

Aeolian Edge is aoe wind damage, and the "D" value on your weapon has absolutely zero effect on it. A Onion dagger will produce the same AE damage as a Mandau.

Base D is LV+2, then add WSC, multiply by fTP and tack on fINT.

fINT = 8 + (ΔINT*M) were M=.5

For all the older WS's fINT capped at 32 (24+8), but the newer ones with bigger M values don't seem to cap, or it's ridiculously high.

Many of the newer ones have a different M value. Sang Blade is 2.0, Primal Rend and True Flight both are 2.0 and use a different stat (PR is CHR vs INT, TF is AGI vs INT). The rest are unknown.

Multiply by all the percentage multiplies in sequence.

Damage = (( Lv+2+WSC ) * fTP + fINT ) * Resist * Elemental Staves * Weather * MDIF * Magic Damage Adjustment

Typically physical WS's will do more damage then magical ones, as we have no ammo equitable staves. BUT there is a catch, physical WS's attack values cap at a relatively low amount vs magical ones. We haven't found a cap for MDIF yet, even under brews adding more MAB seems to add more damage. Still resists factor heavily in reducing magic WS viability, and while adding accuracy helps in your melee hits for TP it doesn't help in landing magic WS's without resists.

That was beyond helpful, considering all the information. I hate to sound ungrateful though, but you didn't really answer what your experience has been between the two. I know anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much when comparing numbers, but it is pretty much what I was looking for in this case.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Still resists factor heavily in reducing magic WS viability, and while adding accuracy helps in your melee hits for TP it doesn't help in landing magic WS's without resists.

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I think the question here is if Magic Accuracy can lower the resist rates on magical weapon skills (I would guess that it can). If that was the case, short of SE finally releasing the magic affinity shield for all jobs I've been wanting, or increasing damage and hoping for no resists (like wearing a Magic Attack Bonus sword or shield, or off-handing something that works in the offhand with TP Bonus - not sure there are any for Red Mage though), the best option might be to offhand a weapon that gives a ton of Magic Accuracy.

Murgleis (mACC+25) comes to mind, although getting a Mythic weapon just to offhand it is pretty silly (plus it would probably do more in the main). After that you have stuff like the Magian Trail sword with mACC+15, and other gear. Considering that some mixing of stats would probably be better, an Antares might help more (mACC+10, MAB+10), but how much resist rates could (possibly) be affected by Magic Accuracy is a bit of a toss up while having more TP generation (like from the OAT weapon, or a Joyeuse) seems to be a solid option in comparison.

I think it's stripped of all stats in the offhand like relics anyway.

Personal Experience is for Daggers, Evis > Aeolian Edge by far. @85 I was able to get 450~500 outside abyssea with AE in my nuking set. If I used Martials Dagger then I can make it go higher, but your TP damage will suck. Evis I can hit 700+ easily, higher if its a T or below monster. DB I haven't tested in a long time, I'll probably do some of that later. CDC is by far my best WS though, every RDM should making getting access to that a priority. And honestly short of SE giving us access to the EX weapons skills (Vorpal) our sword WS really takes a hit. Evis would beat out DB if we had access to better daggers.

Also to answer your question, yes magic accuracy helps magic WS. It's a generic stat, it effects all spells cast, enspells, and even any additional effects from ammo / weapons you have. This is why I full time the Mag Acc +8 chakram.

My best DB outside was like 1.1k, but it was a EP mob iirc. Inside I think I did 1.2kish on a golem in uleg.

I've done like 1400 with Joyeuse main-hand, but definitely some DA procs afoot. Either way, a good DB should beat AE on individual mobs, while fighting 2+ would likely favor AE.