The importance of job points

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

I'd like to point out that many jobs actually benefit a decent (not decent, but can take advantage of a lot of JPs) amount from JPs,

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Now, they are an event in and of themselves and they make a considerable difference for some jobs.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

though they have never been NEEDED and considering the only content to come with feb patch is Aluvion Skirmish, they will probably still not be needed.

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Well since they aren't needed, I guess you have no reason to be arguing one way or the other. Seeing as you don't need the job points, I guess what happens with job points won't matter to you at all. You can just go out and kill things mindlessly forever....

That is unless you actually want job points. In which case you have no business telling someone else that they shouldn't have them.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

Can we stop creating fallacies to support whatever is being complained about. If most of you complaining went and spent time JPing instead of complaing you would probably have more JPs. Time is money, stop wasting it.

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I can farm JP and do this at the same time. That's how boring it is. I'm also watching netflix.

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Originally Posted by Roja323

I have 8mp idle refresh and cannot maintain t4 nukes, so your math is off. I guess if your a blm who doesnt swap weapons and can use a staff ws to refill mp, sure..... but as a geo who is constantly using indi/geo spells, if i do anything other than t1's i will be out of mp after 1 boss and might not be able to keep up indi/geo on the next boss.

Numbers are great on paper, but go out and try to prove it before you open your mouth.

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blm isn't geo which was precisely what his numbers. The whole 2% convert thing is friggin huge and game changing. To the point where a blm can spam T2 with 0 refresh gear and never run out. Not to mention you aren't spamming 250 mp buff/debuffs on blm. But yes in that very specific situation no geo it might not be quite as good. Especially if you aren't getting any refresh buffs.

Now back to all things blm and any situation where on geo where either you aren't constantly having to recast indi/geo (though I can't see any reason you would constantly cast indi) or ones where you can full circle your loupan your mp is a lot better. Alternatively you could take advantage of that same 2% brokenness with Seidr Cotehardie. Sure your nukes wont be as much dmg as with normal nuking body but as you've already said continued nuking is better than a little bit of dmg

And I might suggest that before you try to "prove" someone's numbers are wrong with an anecdote to make sure you read what he actually wrote so you don't end up arguing against a completely different situation especially if you want to be so antagonistic about it

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

There were virtually no consequences when they were introduced. They were introduced as something that would have little to no bearing on how well the job performed. A small bonus that could be acquired through normal participation in events people were already doing. Now, they are an event in and of themselves and they make a considerable difference for some jobs. Not only that, but they are an event where a lot of people / jobs have to solo. If what they say now is true, that difference will only get bigger and bigger.

It's fine if you just want to keep them how they are, but it's pretty silly to pretend that you don't know why people are upset.

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What are these considerable differences? How are any of them so considerable that they become an absolute requirement? Some of them are GOOD, yes. I love the extra 500 HP curing I get from Chakra from having 10/10 Chakra job points on Monk. I did that because I enjoyed farming the job points and I enjoy maximizing the strength of Chakra. But if I hadn't done this, I'd still be a functioning Monk.

In Spring of 2012, they added Arise and Meteor scrolls for WHM and BLM. Arise is a great spell: 3 minute weakness, full HP raise, and reraise effect. Meteor is kinda crummy unless you can get other Black Mages to chain cast with you. Because of the scarcity, they cost 25 million gil. I like my WHM and put a lot of pride into being a good WHM, but I wasn't going to spend 25 million on a single spell. But on your reasoning, because Arise existed, and was actually good, it was now "required", and I was obligated to farm gil to raise the 25 million. I didn't do that. I didn't get the spell until about a year later when the price came down under 5 million (now it's even cheaper). I still functioned as a WHM just fine.

This is what infuriates me about this thread. People are saying "I don't want to farm job points and I thought I wouldn't have to but now Square Enix is changing the system to make it so I have to!!!!".... but nobody provides any actual evidence of how the job points are required. It's all just "job points exist, and I want them, so they are required". You still didn't answer my question. I asked "what are the consequences of not having job points"? Instead you acted all huffy and dodged the question by pretending it was rhetorical.

Job points are no more "required" than something like Ginsen or Tinhaspa or Jugo Kukri or any Mythic weapon. They're pretty much just like merit points only harder to get.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Well since they aren't needed, I guess you have no reason to be arguing one way or the other. Seeing as you don't need the job points, I guess what happens with job points won't matter to you at all. You can just go out and kill things mindlessly forever....

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Your guess would be wrong. Just because one doesn't need something doesn't mean one shouldn't be concerned with it. I will give you an example: I don't need to eat New York Strawberry Cheesecake, but I like the way it tastes and so it would concern me if suddenly people tried to have the taste of it changed. The same thing goes with JP, you don't need them, but they provide a benefit and so even though one doesn't need them, one can be concerned with them.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

That is unless you actually want job points. In which case you have no business telling someone else that they shouldn't have them.

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Him saying not needing does not equal not wanting. Nor did he say anything of not wanting them. And nowhere did he say that people shouldn't have them. This is just more of you making up falsehoods and stating it as if it is fact.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

What are these considerable differences? How are any of them so considerable that they become an absolute requirement? Some of them are GOOD, yes. I love the extra 500 HP curing I get from Chakra from having 10/10 Chakra job points on Monk. I did that because I enjoyed farming the job points and I enjoy maximizing the strength of Chakra. But if I hadn't done this, I'd still be a functioning Monk.

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But you wouldn't have done it without the job points. Because getting something good for your monk is fun and wacking monsters endlessly is not.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

This is what infuriates me about this thread. People are saying "I don't want to farm job points and I thought I wouldn't have to but now Square Enix is changing the system to make it so I have to!!!!".... but nobody provides any actual evidence of how the job points are required. It's all just "job points exist, and I want them, so they are required". You still didn't answer my question. I asked "what are the consequences of not having job points"? Instead you acted all huffy and dodged the question by pretending it was rhetorical.

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Nothing is required. You can stand around a starter zone wacking level one mobs for all eternity because you don't actually NEED to level up or gear or anything. Saying people don't need them is meaningless. If you don't need them then you shouldn't care how I get them.

This all boils down to people wanting things. You want job points to remain the same. Other people want to max out their characters without having to farm (as much) JP to do it.

The only difference is that you can wack monsters until they shut down the servers if that's what you like, regardless of the existence of job points or any changes to them. There are no consequences for you either way. Even if they make every monster give 1,000,000 JP, The monsters remain and you are free to kill them as much as you want. Or if you wanted, you could just take off some gear to make them harder again.

People who don't want to kill the same monsters for ever and a day don't have that freedom. They have to give up on maximizing their character if they don't like it.

If they were to make JP far easier to obtain, the only downside for you would be that you couldn't come on here and call people lazy for not having them.

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Originally Posted by Protey

Your guess would be wrong. Just because one doesn't need something doesn't mean one shouldn't be concerned with it. I will give you an example: I don't need to eat New York Strawberry Cheesecake, but I like the way it tastes and so it would concern me if suddenly people tried to have the taste of it changed. The same thing goes with JP, you don't need them, but they provide a benefit and so even though one doesn't need them, one can be concerned with them.

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And if that cheesecake suddenly cost $10,000 a slice would that make it taste any better? No. The only purpose it would serve for you would be keeping other people from having cake.

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Originally Posted by Protey

Him saying not needing does not equal not wanting. Nor did he say anything of not wanting them. And nowhere did he say that people shouldn't have them. This is just more of you making up falsehoods and stating it as if it is fact.

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Next time your parents / significant other / boss ask you for something, tell them "You don't need that" and see how that works out for you.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

But you wouldn't have done it without the job points. Because getting something good for your monk is fun and wacking monsters endlessly is not.



Nothing is required. You can stand around a starter zone wacking level one mobs for all eternity because you don't actually NEED to level up or gear or anything. Saying people don't need them is meaningless. If you don't need them then you shouldn't care how I get them.

This all boils down to people wanting things. You want job points to remain the same. Other people want to max out their characters without having to farm (as much) JP to do it.

The only difference is that you can wack monsters until they shut down the servers if that's what you like, regardless of the existence of job points or any changes to them. There are no consequences for you either way. Even if they make every monster give 1,000,000 JP, The monsters remain and you are free to kill them as much as you want. Or if you wanted, you could just take off some gear to make them harder again.

People who don't want to kill the same monsters for ever and a day don't have that freedom. They have to give up on maximizing their character if they don't like it.

If they were to make JP far easier to obtain, the only downside for you would be that you couldn't come on here and call people lazy for not having them.




And if that cheesecake suddenly cost $10,000 a slice would that make it taste any better? No. The only purpose it would serve for you would be keeping other people from having cake.



Next time your parents / significant other / boss ask you for something, tell them "You don't need that" and see how that works out for you.

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Stop taking things out of context to support your fallacies some more. Lvling up in the game is essential to basically play the game since the majority of content revolves around end game. JPs are not needed have not been needed and still are not needed to play your jobs for ALL END GAME.

EDIT: Removed some stupid stuff as to hopefully not create tensions though you don't make any sense and your analogies are awful.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

And if that cheesecake suddenly cost $10,000 a slice would that make it taste any better? No. The only purpose it would serve for you would be keeping other people from having cake.

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Thank you for digging down to the core of the argument.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

Cool story. Stop trying to derail the topic.

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What are you so afraid of? Just tell how many hours you play a day so we can have a better context for what you are saying about this topic.

I think the core issue that is dividing people here seems to be the disparity between "casual easy content / box-ticking content" and "achievement-based advanced content."

Currently there are a lot more things that fall into the former category. Just about everything outside Seekers areas can now be solo'd with ilvl gear and trusts, including former mega boss HNM etc. and formerly difficult missions. Almost all mobs outside SoA are too weak or incredibly easy prey. 99.9% of NMs outside SoA present no challenge at all for a solo player with ilvl gear and trusts. RME can be pretty much solo'd with a few stages requiring groups (HMP etc.) but the vast majority is easy and soloable. WKR, skirmish and most delve are also not overly difficult.

There is actually very little content that falls into the second category, the "devotion-based advanced content." I would argue that attaining high levels of Job-Points is intended to, and succeeds in, providing an advanced long-term building process for people who want something they can achieve and feel proud of. Not so much now with the current Job-Points maximum brackets, but in the future when Su2 Su3 Su4 gear arrive and the brackets are expanded and require mindboggling amounts of CAP to max out. Those future expansions to the Job Points group brackets, could pose a serious and advanced long-term challenge for those that want it.

And I can only see this as a very good thing. Because if you like super easy short-term content, you've got just about everything in the world that falls into that category lol. Don't complain because other people who have long wanted an advanced long-term character development process, and a sense of pride in their job accomplishments, have now got that option.

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Originally Posted by Raydeus

What are you so afraid of? Just tell how many hours you play a day so we can have a better context for what you are saying about this topic.

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