Melee WHM's Unite!

I started the game out as a melee WHM. I'd have to say my greatest accomplishment would be soloing the leeches for the NIN quest as a WHM53/BLM26 and at one point, I even owned a Divine Breastplate. For certain activities, I'd go /PLD just for fun. Other times, I'd use the traditional /BLM (with appropriate INT+ gear for using what Black Magic I had) and try to see how high I could get Banish III. Then came the day I got Hexa Strike and then the day when Promathia areas became unrestricted. In only a single night I burned through Holla and Mea, enjoying every second.

I eventually switched to PLD as my main focus. However, I always sub WHM, keeping a bit of that part of me alive. I also still use clubs and staves, and I still love to spam Banish, Holy, and good ol' Curaga (good substitute for Provoke).

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Originally Posted by Economizer

What I mean is, could you offhand a Yagrush as a multihitter by activating the aftermath? Probably not, but I figured I'd ask on the offchance you could... Mjollnir/Yagrush would be a definite combo if you could.

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You do not. When you offhand a relic or mythic weapon you only get the damage/delay. All of the other stats on the weapon are ignored, including aftermath effects. They did this way back when dual wielding was the best, and allowing someone to dual wield good weapons was a huge advantage. They never went back and addressed this after the 2 handed update.

Went up against a Verethragna for the lulz had a blast!! 3957 was highest avg out of 27 was 3053.13 on golems in Uleguerand Range

Okay, update is going out, and the latest dat mines (thanks for everyone posting these, including those actually doing the research) from the test server are pretty consistent with previous ones. Assuming nothing big has changed:

Moepapa Mace Rare
Club
DMG:71 Delay:300
Additional effect: Flash
Lv94 WAR WHM PLD

I already posted this one earlier before it had a name in the files, but since it is more likely that we'll actually see it in action, some thoughts:

I'm not sure how I feel about WAR and PLD being on this thing (they've been significantly behind White Mage on Club for some time, something I'd like to stay that way) but with the Flash on it I guess I can't really complain.

Look at that thing's damage rating. Not quite even a Gambanteinn (90) even, but it comes real close. The stats on it could almost match Kingfury's Hardlight Hammer, but with a significantly lower delay.

First person to tell me how to get it gets a cookie.

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Already been posted, but I'll repost since this data is newer:

Mjollnir Rare Exclusive
Club
DMG:87 Delay:308 Attack+35
"Randgrith"
Additional effect: Recover MP
Lv95 WHM

Gambanteinn Rare Exclusive
Club
DMG:84 Delay:300 HP+80 MP+80
"Dagan"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Lv95 WHM

Yagrush Rare Exclusive
Club
DMG:69 Delay:267 Magic Accuracy+20
Augments "Divine Veil"
Enhances "Divine Benison" effect III
"Mystic Boon"
Aftermath: Increases Magic Acc./Acc.
Occasionally attacks twice or thrice
Lv95 WHM

The base Magian things:

Canne de Cbt. +3 Rare Exclusive
Club
DMG:76 Delay:310
"Dagan"
Lv95 WHM

Naboot +3 Rare Exclusive
Club
DMG:35 Delay:340
Lv95 WHM

Hoeroa +3 Exclusive
Club
DMG:50 Delay:210
Lv95 WHM

Makhila +3 Rare Exclusive
Club
DMG:59 Delay:288
Lv95 WHM

Also some armor with related stats, nothing major though:

Tyrant's Ring Rare
Ring
AGI-4 Attack+8 "Store TP"+4
Lv92 All Jobs

Tjukurrpa Annulet Rare Exclusive
Ring
MND+5 Sword skill +5
Club skill+5
Lv94 All Jobs

Portus Annulet Rare Exclusive
Ring
Accuracy+7 Guarding skill +5
Evasion skill +5 Shield skill +5
Parrying skill +5
Lv94 All Jobs

Psychist Shield Rare
Shield
DEF:17 MP+50 MND+4
Shield size 2
Lv92 WAR WHM RDM THF PLD BST SAM

Evergreen Earring Rare
Earring
Accuracy+3 Evasion+3 "Subtle Blow"+3
Lv92 All Jobs

Savateur's Gaiters Rare
Feet
DEF:20 Accuracy+8 "Kick Attacks"+3
"Subtle Blow"+8 Haste+2%
Lv92 MNK WHM RDM THF PLD BST BRD DRG SMN BLU COR PUP DNC

All said, nothing uprising. Between Boost-STR and the new club (if it isn't too hard to get) for those of us without one of the big three, a decent update.

Thanks for posting that stuff Econ :D

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Moepapa Mace Rare
Club
DMG:71 Delay:300
Additional effect: Flash
Lv94 WAR WHM PLD

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Still trying to get or get info on how to get the new scrolls, but I found some info on this thing.

It is sortof still rumor-status but, the word on the street is:

Dynamis - Valkrum -> Nightmare Goobbue -> Nightmare Water (pop item) -> Lost Stcemqestcint -> Moepapa Mace

I believe the new scrolls come from the new KCNM battles. As for the equipment... it's a toss up between those new battles, and the new Voidwatch battles...

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Originally Posted by Retsujo

I believe the new scrolls come from the new KCNM battles.

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Many also come from Walk of Echoes (strong confirmation of Holy II from WoE, weaker one for Curaga V), but I still don't have a confirmation of where Boost-STR comes from.

I can't say I look forward to an era of expensive White Mage scrolls, let alone scrolls for other jobs.

Mjollnir(95) is awesome.

That is all.

Once I finish Yagrush and get it upgraded to Lv95, I may play with the aftermath a bit. Not too likely, because it's hard to beat such a huge base damage difference. Never really wanted it for meleeing anyway, but I'd mess with it sometimes.

Scrolls come from three sources:
- Voidwatch.
- WoE.
- New KCNM/HKCNM battles.

The only reason they're expensive is because they actually take effort to get. Every spell 76-90 for any job is cheap, because every spell could come from easy-mode Abyssea + they were all available from NPCs for those in a rush.

The new rings don't interest me other than -maybe- Tyrant's Ring (For the S-TP). I mostly say that because I have access to Mars's, which offers more than +5 club skill or +7 accuracy.

Feet could have potential for those with Zelus Tiara or higher haste on belt than Swift. Other than that, I'd prefer Blessed +1 - my haste gear is pre-76+, but as long as I'm capped at 26% (yet really 25%) it doesn't bother me too much.

That earring looks like another Heed Ring all over again, sounds useful in accuracy-needed situations. Otherwise, it's likely an Attack+ earring is a better option.

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Naboot +3 Rare Exclusive
Club
DMG:35 Delay:340
Lv95 WHM

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For the Kraken Club-less White Mages (like me, I still don't have one).
OAT - DMG:+27, OAT
OA2-4x - No increased DMG+ as an augment.
DA - DMG:+40, "Double Attack"+10

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Hoeroa +3 Exclusive
Club
DMG:50 Delay:210
Lv95 WHM

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Misc. augments:
STR/Attack path - STR+10/Attack+20
DEX/Accuracy path - DEX+10/Accuracy+15

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Makhila +3 Rare Exclusive
Club
DMG:59 Delay:288
Lv95 WHM

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This one... never really caught my interest, but:
WS DMG path augments- DMG:+5, WS DMG+10%
TP Bonus path augments- TP Bonus +100, as expected
Store TP path augments- DMG:+5, "Store TP"+15

OA2 Naboot is one of the highest-DPS clubs out there as well (it's behind Gamba and Mjollnir from 85+... and that's it), so it makes a very nice offhand weapon even if you're not generating ridiculous TP per round.

I'm in a number crunchy mood today.

Considering the aftermath of Gambanteinn, it might be competitive with Mjollnir. So, the question is, which is better?

I'm inclined to think Mjollnir would be better, but if you are sacrificing weapon skills for Mystic Boon, Dagan while activating the aftermath could match them up more, but I don't really know the proc rates on either so I can't really give a solid guess even.

Well...

Mjollnir's triple-damage procs somewhere around 12% (I think; just repeating something I may be remembering wrong) on the lv95 version. As a result, you'd need at least a 24% effective proc rate on ODD from Gamba (slightly higher, actually, to cover the difference in base damage) just assuming the same WS usage.

However, you're not using the same WSes - you're using Dagan on Gamba (and unless you've got a KClub to offhand, that's going to be the only WS you're using so you can keep the Aftermath up as much as possible), vs. whatever you want on Mjollnir. So you'd need an even higher effective proc rate on ODD - somewhere in the neighborhood of 30% if you're only using Mystic Boon, and much higher if you're throwing in Hexa Strike as desired.

I'd provide numbers rather than a "painting with really broad strokes" gut-feeling picture here, but there isn't really a WHM damage spreadsheet I can plug stuff into. :D

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Originally Posted by MDenham

(and unless you've got a KClub to offhand, that's going to be the only WS you're using so you can keep the Aftermath up as much as possible)

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I don't have a Kraken Club, but I don't have Mjollnir or Gambateinn either, so I think it is safe to just assume the best gear possible.

My gut says Mjollnir would be the best at damage, but Gambateinn would be the best if White Mage was suddenly some tank job.

Eh, I'm still not too sure about that.

Keep in mind that, with Gamba, unless you have a time between WSes of 15 seconds or less, you're either letting Aftermath drop or you're using only Dagan. This is theoretically achievable (double March, /SAM, lots of Store TP gear; or a multihit weapon in your offhand), but it's a pain. A big pain.

Mjollnir, meanwhile, you don't have to worry about your WS selection. Aftermath is reasonably pointless to activate on it (for most things you'd be fighting), so you can stick with damaging WSes (and/or refilling your MP while doing damage) - and you're getting them at at least twice the pace of Gamba. This, combined with the occasional triple-damage procs, is what pushes Mjollnir over Gamba.

Gamba would be the better choice if you were being supplied with large amounts of TP - either through fighting a large number of trash mobs, or COR support for Tactician's Roll + Samurai Roll. There really isn't any getting around the fact that Empy weapons with a non-damaging WS (that is, club and staff) require one of those two situations to be able to take a lead over the corresponding relic.

By tank job I mean a situation where damage doesn't matter, and the White Mage has to tank something.

Alternately, using the Club like a gimpy emp staff and getting 100 TP for MP alone, but unlike the empyrean staff I have a hard time seeing where SE was coming from with Dagan. It doesn't remove status ailments, doesn't heal as much MP as the empyrean staff, and doesn't do AOE healing (like if the MP generation was self, but the HP generation was AOE) or anything really useful to White Mages commonly, beyond the MP return.

While I like the name Mjollnir better and I'm more then fine that it is still my final goal, I just don't get why SE decided to make Dagan.

I think whoever designed Dagan normally plays a RDM and is in charge of the calls for RDM to get Cure V. :D

Mjollnir destroys Gambanteinn in almost every situation I can think of. Then again, I can't really justify going after a WS that recovers less MP than Mystic Boon and I'd kinda prefer to heal my HP by curing than using a WS. In most situations, a cure is easy enough to get off, even moreso if Aquaveil is up. Dagan doesn't even do damage, so not only are you sacrificing damage to trigger the aftermath, it nets less MP than Mystic Boon. Even outside Abyssea, sticking to Mjollnir's usage of Hexa Strike/Mystic Boon will do more in the long run than Gambanteinn any day. If I had a Gambanteinn... I'd probably just use it as a high base damage club and treat it like anything else; Dagan simply doesn't appeal to me much and requires a strong HP+/MP+ setup to make the best use out of, similar to Myrkr requiring a strong MP+ build to get the most MP return.

But yeah,

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Mjollnir, meanwhile, you don't have to worry about your WS selection. Aftermath is reasonably pointless to activate on it (for most things you'd be fighting), so you can stick with damaging WSes (and/or refilling your MP while doing damage) - and you're getting them at at least twice the pace of Gamba. This, combined with the occasional triple-damage procs, is what pushes Mjollnir over Gamba.

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Pretty much sums it up.

Another math question.

I have a Brutal Earring and the Magian 2-4 hit club. I have a feeling that the Brutal Earring harms TP build - I know that this was a concern with the Kraken Club (I'm too poor to buy one though) - but the question is, is it a concern with the 2-4 hit club, or not, when using two clubs?

Priority is Quadruple Attack > Triple > Double normally. I know having double attack gear may possibly hurt those using KC since it takes priority over the 2-8 times but I might start using it since I'm main-handing an 87 damage weapon with a 12.5% triple damage rate.

If the 2-4 times counts as double/triple/quadruple attack then it should take priority over brutal earring in theory but would probably need some testing to see if this is the case.

In short, don't know lol.

Assuming it works like every other "occasionally attacks X times" weapon other than Jailer weapons, it hurts your TP under the following condition:

* Twice the chance of a 4-hit round, plus the chance of a three-hit round, is greater than the chance of a one-hit round.

I haven't the slightest idea what the distribution on the Magian 2-4x weapons is, though.

To quote someone on a different forum quoting something in a different thread:

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What's this? DD gear that WHM can use that isn't from 75 cap or mini-expansions? Madness!

Head:
HP+30 STR+5 INT+8 MND+8
Magic Accuracy+3
Set: Magic Accuracy+5
Lv.96 WHM/BLM/RDM/BLU/SMN/BRD/SCH

Legs:
STR+10 INT+13 MND+13
Evasion+10 Accuracy+10
Haste+3%
Set: Occasionally consumes no MP
Lv.98 WHM/BLM/RDM/SMN/BRD/SCH

Hands:
MP-15 STR+7 VIT+7 MND+7
Haste+5%
Lv.98 WHM

Feet:
MP-20 STR+5 Accuracy+5
"Store TP"+4 Haste+2%
Lv.99 WHM/BLM/RDM/BRD/SMN/PUP/SCH

Waist:
STR+9 Attack+25 Double Attack-5%
Lv.98 All Jobs

Back:
Attack+17
"Everyone's Rancor"
Lv.98 All Jobs

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Interesting implications for the Blessed gear's viability to 99, but I'm not sure the set is dead just yet. I really wonder if that 98 WHM piece will be part of a proper set, but even if it is, the Haste isn't quite up to an HQ blessed set just yet, at least not on the piece we see.

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I really wonder if that 98 WHM piece will be part of a proper set

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Unfortunately no, it's just a one-off.

Head:
MP+30 Magic crit rate+5%
"Magic Atk. Bonus"+5
Magic Accuracy+5
Set: Occasionally consumes no MP
Lv.98 WHM/BLM/RDM/SMN/BRD/SCH

Body:
MP+100 INT+13 MND+13 CHR+13
Magic Accuracy+10
Adds "Refresh" effect
Set: Occasionally consumes no MP
Lv.99 WHM/BLM/RDM/SMN/BRD/SCH

Hands:
Enfeebling magic skill+15
Magic Accuracy+10
Enmity-5
Set: Occasionally consumes no MP
Lv.97 WHM/BLM/RDM/SMN/BRD/SCH

Legs:
STR+10 INT+13 MND+13
Evasion+10 Accuracy+10
Haste+3%
Set: Occasionally consumes no MP
Lv.98 WHM/BLM/RDM/SMN/BRD/SCH

Feet:
Divine Magic Skill+10
Enhancing Magic Skill+10
Healing Magic Skill+10
Enfeebling Magic Skill+10
Elemental Magic Skill+10
Summoning Magic Skill+10
Set: Occasionally consumes no MP
Lv.96 WHM/BLM/RDM/SMN/BRD/SCH

dude i Melee with Fulcrum pole and the Dmg is amazing haha.

DD WHM does't get the love it deserves. :<

I've been thinking lately of dropping my AMK hat (STR+4 Weapon Skill Accuracy +15, Accuracy+10 Attack+5) so I can get the hat for a pet job and just WS in either the Rokugo Hachimaki (Accuracy+12 Club skill +5 "Conserve TP"+5) if I need accuracy or something with attack like a Khthonios Mask (Attack+14 "Store TP"+4).

I figure that this would might be better, considering that the skill scaling has changed, making it easier to hit stuff with slightly less accuracy, and I've been running more and more into attack being an issue rather then accuracy based on the mobs I tend to fight.

Thoughts?

I'd use the mask out of the two options.

The sad part is that I'd just be equipping the mask for weapon skills unless I had a better way to cap haste. Sadly, haste gear for White Mage seems to be sliding down instead of up in potency as it gets other stats... so we get sidegrades and inventory -1 instead of even the slightest of upgrades.

What I'd really like is a set with attack, accuracy and haste, and if we're really loved, other boosts like STR and crit rate/damage buffs, and if SE really, really loves us, some mage stats too. But at this point I'd probably settle for haste +1% on the pieces that I've seen them unload on us that have haste -1% vs. what we can equip now.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

The sad part is that I'd just be equipping the mask for weapon skills unless I had a better way to cap haste. Sadly, haste gear for White Mage seems to be sliding down instead of up in potency as it gets other stats... so we get sidegrades and inventory -1 instead of even the slightest of upgrades.

What I'd really like is a set with attack, accuracy and haste, and if we're really loved, other boosts like STR and crit rate/damage buffs, and if SE really, really loves us, some mage stats too. But at this point I'd probably settle for haste +1% on the pieces that I've seen them unload on us that have haste -1% vs. what we can equip now.

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Every update we see just disappoints me further as a DD WHM. SE gave us SOME things but then chooses to either give us pretty useless pieces or just nothing at all.

That aside, I don't seem to miss too terribly much(especially on weaponskills) so I don't focus too much on accuracy save for a PCC(I can't seem to get a Ziel Charm to drop for me) so I just go for the mods. I figure that there isn't enough actual attack(or STR) gear to work with for WHM so no sense in trying to gear for that and I just pound on as much MND as possible.

But I think the Sea Gorgets and the corresponding belts from Abyssea really make a difference. I would like to know if the gorgets give the accuracy to all hits or just the first for sure, it seems everyone is going back and forth on it again and as a WHM only... if I say anything all I get is "lolwhm trying to be dd!" :<

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Originally Posted by Kitheren

Every update we see just disappoints me further as a DD WHM. SE gave us SOME things but then chooses to either give us pretty useless pieces or just nothing at all.

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This has been my endless frustration. We got good and easy to get gear for cure casting (to the point where getting into Voidwatch as a White Mage is now hard if I'm trying to progress, I suppose I really should get into some sort of endgame shell instead of relying on shouts) they've totally ditched the damage dealing side (and it isn't like you can effectively do both at once so it wouldn't exactly be a balance issue to keep scaling up what we effectively had at 75 for years).

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Originally Posted by Kitheren

I figure that there isn't enough actual attack(or STR) gear to work with for WHM so no sense in trying to gear for that and I just pound on as much MND as possible

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This is actually why attack and STR are so important, or at least part of the reason.

There is quite a bit of attack gear you can get these days too, it is just harder to get for clerics then it is for many others. Also keep in mind that stuff that adds Club skill adds accuracy and attack, although that is also pretty rare.

I'll list out some attack gear, although this is also mostly/partly for my benefit in the future (so I'll be saying some obvious stuff, sorry). Afterwards I'll give some thoughts as to what SE could do better for us.

I'll start with weapons. Your signature says you have a Mjollnir, that's a major attack boost right there. On top of that you can offhand something with attack and STR, although due to our low amount of traits to boost it many White Mages offhand something that increases weapon skill frequency such as a Kraken Club or the Magian multihitter.

The previous headgear choices I stated, Rokugo Hachimaki (Accuracy+12 Club skill +5 "Conserve TP"+5) or the Khthonios Mask (Attack+14 "Store TP"+4) both give fair amounts of related stats, effectively 17 accuracy and 5 attack for the headband or 14 attack for the mask.

For the body piece we're pretty much limited to the augmented ACP piece unless you focus on accuracy instead.

For hands the best attack piece only gives +5 so it is better to either get the Healer Mitts +1 or the Iuvenalis Mittens, which are just about identical in stats as a macro piece. I'd say fulltime Iuvenalis but SE managed to screw that up by not giving it 1% more haste.

For pants, Rubeus Spats pretty much mop the floor. With stats like STR+10 INT+13 MND+13 Accuracy+10 Evasion+10 Haste+3% they are pretty much for everything, although once again SE managed to muck up the potential of these being the best in slot in everything melee related by having the haste value off of Blessed +1 by 1% again. They are also a Voidwatch drop which means good luck getting them, but you could probably get away with wearing Blessed Trousers (+1) until then.

For feet there aren't a lot of good choices, I'd imagine that the best choice will be gearing for Mind. You could go for Salvage gear but you'd probably save a slot by wearing the AF3+2 shoes for +8 MND.

For the neck slot you pretty much get to choose between the Backlash Torque (+8 attack), the WS gorget, accuracy gear, the Prudence Torque (+7 Club Skill), or gearing for a stat. I've also seen dat mines of the new legion gear that suggest there is a new skill piece for neck coming with something like +8 club skill.

For Waist I'm thinking either the WS belt or a Prosilio Belt (STR+9 Attack+25"Double Attack"-5%).

For ear, Aesir Ear Pendant (attack +7), Merman's Earring (+6) or something expensive like a Vulcan's Pearl (+4 attack), as well as MND based options.

For ring, Rajas is always a decent gear/gil saving option, and there are lots of STR rings (and MND ones if you wanna save some space and use your caster options). You can also grab a Keen Ring (Accuracy+3 Attack+7), or a Tyrant's Ring (AGI-4 Attack+8 "Store TP"+4) for attack as well as a bit of sTP to edge out frequency. Also to consider is Tjukurrpa Annulet (MND+5 Sword skill +5 Club skill +5) if you can get it.

For back pieces the Rancorous Mantle is the piece to get. It has +17 attack and if you are willing to build tonberry hate it also has "Everyone's Rancor".

Honestly, many of these gear choices are all jobs gear or gear from the pre-75 days, something that is far worse a situation in terms of our haste gear, especially since SE has seemingly forgotten our Blessed set that made most of our melee exploits possible in the first place. Honestly all I want is a continuation on this. A few pieces have shown promise but there is far more SE could do for us.

For suggestions my ideas have mostly been drifting around a set that is also for Paladins that could be called something like a "Templar's Armor" set or something. Perhaps Red Mage could even be included. Maybe I'll workup a set idea sometime.

You know i actually am glad to see this thread revived, i been wracking my brain when it comes to hexastrike, and admittedly my whm gear isnt top of the line by any means, my issue is (and i know, being 6 hit with crit ability makes it random, as well as testing in abyssea, though i used refresh atmas with no other ws mods for control tests) I was unable to get a difinitive result for hexastrike Superiority. In 2 hours of testing (aprox) it seemed 40 str and 15 dex did as well as 72-ish mnd. And keeping the 40 str, 15 mnd, and adding 21 mnd (as slots allowed at the time) i saw virtually no increase. Im currently looking at using a somewhat unrelated set for hexa so far.

x x x Thunder satchet
Voyager sallet, light gorget, brutal earing, and either coral or minuet earing
+15 MND body, healers/blessed hands (Nq), Spiral ring, Raja Ring
Potentia cape, Light belt, Blessed legs (Nq), Marine M Boots (3+ str/+3 dex/-3 mnd) or Orison +2 boots (8 Mnd)

Problem, and i know my sample size is rather small, but i havent seen any other stats/gear pulling ahead, i am currently 96 whm, but have a decent degree of experience with rdm melee so this is truely confounding. If anyone can shed light on this, as well as offering other gear options (NO RUBEUS SPATS! Hard enough trying to get anything out of voidwatch)

I egarly await your answers!

WHM and RDM are mostly in the same boat melee wise. RDM has it slightly better due to us being put on a few pieces and having CDC, but that's about it.

I would think the new club WS would be better then hexa. WHM has many times more MND gear then STR / attack / DA gear. 100% MND WSC means you just load up on as much as you can. Hexa is only 20% MND / STR, meaning STR has more effect then MND (fSTR + WSC) and attack has more effect then both of them. Use what you can and don't forget Dia II.

Ofcourse, i was avoiding dia for sake of controlled tests. And in a perfect world, sure, id have that club ws, but it comes down to what jobs i have and even counting rdm, id be looking at extensiator, requiescat, and Realmarzer. But at the moment im going for Resolution, Shijin Spiral, and undecided on either Entropy, Requiescat, and a few other ws. So i dont know if its in the cards for me at the moment... Just looking for some solid hexa info, i did check the mods and 40 str did pull ahead of 40 mnd, but adding both str and mnd didnt do much of anything, hence me coming here. I do know attack being a problem though... But i also know for crit rate dex is important, so i was hoping there might be some more recent testing on key gear being better. Examples being something like 3 str/dex/-3mnd vs 8 mnd, which might come out higher on average, for me they are virtually the same, but it would seem like 8 mnd would pull out ahead.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Ofcourse, i was avoiding dia for sake of controlled tests. And in a perfect world, sure, id have that club ws, but it comes down to what jobs i have and even counting rdm, id be looking at extensiator, requiescat, and Realmarzer. But at the moment im going for Resolution, Shijin Spiral, and undecided on either Entropy, Requiescat, and a few other ws. So i dont know if its in the cards for me at the moment... Just looking for some solid hexa info, i did check the mods and 40 str did pull ahead of 40 mnd, but adding both str and mnd didnt do much of anything, hence me coming here. I do know attack being a problem though... But i also know for crit rate dex is important, so i was hoping there might be some more recent testing on key gear being better. Examples being something like 3 str/dex/-3mnd vs 8 mnd, which might come out higher on average, for me they are virtually the same, but it would seem like 8 mnd would pull out ahead.

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If we're talking WHM and Hexa, don't bother with +DEX. It's not a flat % crit but a steeply curved slop. You need 35~40 dex over the targets AGI before you start to see the really good gains, and it caps at 50 over the targets AGI. For something with 120 AGI, you'd need 170 DEX to cap and 155~160 before you start seeing solid returns. Ultimately you just go straight for the WSC (Club merit WS) or for Atk / STR / MND (Hexa). fSTR caps at ((WDMG/9)+8), that would be 15 for the Mopedia Mace (DMG70 one). 15 fSTR is about ~60 STR over the monsters VIT, your not hitting that on a WHM. fSTR can be treated as a ~25% STR WSC for purposes of gear, and with Hexa having a 20% STR 20% MND mod, you end up with more then a 2:1 ratio between them.

EX:
+10 STR would be +1.72 from WSC and +2.5 from fSTR while +10 MND would only be +1.72 from the WSC. So stack STR whenever you can't get Atk / DA in the slot for Hexa.

For your WS selection, use what you need the most. The Scythe (Entropy) one is crap though, the INT mod makes it less then useless for DRKs, but the GSWD (Resolution) one is amazing. Req is kinda ~meh~ but it beats DB and ends up being even with Vorpal most of the time (very situation and gear dependent). Exten is decent if you can get tons of AGI, so DNC and THF can get good use out of it, RDM and BRD are kinda shafted though. I went Shoha, Resolution and Stardiver.

Im aware entropy isnt great, but there isnt much for scythe that is, and even leaving 1 merit into it for mp recovery isnt really that beneficial cause it limits my other ws. However i was considering it because with it i can recover decent mp (Drk gets quite a bit of int gear afterall...) which inturn i can use (with a select gear build) with impact for a combination of magical and physical damage. Hence the reason im looking at. Resolution is brilliant, i could tell from day 1, but Shijin i dont know much about, though ive heard a lot of good things from fellow mnks with vere 90+ so im inclined to believe it, and am following suit, if my revan fists +2 (when i finish making them) equal nearly as much or more damage in most situations, ill likely unmerit it and go with entropy and requiescat, or realmarzer.

But thats good to know, try to whore str and att where possible, dex shouldnt be bothered with unless it comes tied to one of the other two. Which do you say matters more, str or att? Also in slots i have neither i should stack mnd correct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saevel

I would think the new club WS would be better then hexa.

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They nerfed it hard. The only thing I've heard about it being good is one case of word of mouth about some Mjollnir holder having it outperform Hexa Strike in very, very select circumstances. Even then I haven't seen the numbers first hand and until I get a good amount of information about that my opinion is that Realmrazer got nerfed to the point of uselessness and I will never merit it.

Edit: I'd really like someone to sell me on this if they have better numbers.

Moten might show up and do up some numbers. Req ends up beating out Vorpal when you have really high MND, I can see Relm working out the same way. Honestly Realm is just for non-WHM's to have a decent club WS, why should you waste one of your picks for something that ~might~ be marginally better then what you already have, and most likely will be worse.

Go with as much attack as you can cram in with Hexa. The 20% STR / MND WSC really makes those stats suck over all.

Roger that, see thats exactly why i didnt get the new axe ws, or the club ws, or dagger for that matter, for the jobs i have, exten would work best for nin. I dont have sam/drg/war so stardiver and shoha dont do much for me. Working on mock emps for bow, scythe, sword, katana, and hand to hand, but dunno if Victory beats shijin so ill have both and if its close enough, shijin will be demerited. As for whm club, i currently have 2 pretty poor clubs, Molva and an auged Vodun with 6 str. Considering doing a str club for offhand and a ws for mainhand or a mock emp there too maybe as i think it beats the ws club's base dmg. But dunno. But it comes down to a lot of the new ws dont really fit me. And while i understood WSC (drk for example used to be better whoring attack and acc for Guillotine but that has changed due to drk's base attack coming up so sharply) but i knew whm had an attack defficiency. And that said i also knew trying to mash attack into whm slots is even harder than trying to fit str into them!

Does present me with some troubles... But atleast i know what im looking at now!



Edit-
With the info presented i put together this, assuming someone like me who lacks AMKD, ACP, ASA addons, i used flora (Was considering tabin jupon but think flora might be better, but its likely really close)

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/249827

It seems white mage, like redmage has trouble in the body/leg slots, and is only provided with 1 good melee leg slot (Damn you rubeus spats) so aside from cramming dex/crit/mnd (if any exist) in the legs/body slots, i opted for max str, this is by no means an everyman's build (its pricy as hell on my server coming in at around 4-5 mil, and i substituted in free gear where possible, see rings). Feet presented a problem with no attack options, str limited to RSE gear, i decided to go with 11 mnd as a potentially better increase over 3 str/dex and - mnd. Very hard to obtain, but if someone can manage all of this im sure their hexastrikes would begin to hit quite impressively, especially if they also swap the body for an appropriately augmented Royal redingnote. Feel free to check and critique it.

A good part of this game is effort/reward. Sometimes if you don't care about top of the line you need to care about stuff like inventory space, cost to get, and other considerations.

For example, the WoE weapons (fake Empyreans) are not worth getting because they are all outdone by their 85 counterparts and take a bunch of effort.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Feel free to check and critique it.

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You have to have a reasonable amount of effort/reward as well when making a set. For example, due to inventory issues or if you never did Salvage then you might find the WHM AF3+2 leggings have MND+8.

The WS gorget/belt are more impressive for Realmrazer then they are for Hexa Strike but are okay options. You may want to consider the Prosilio Belt however.

For hands you will probably be better with Healer Mitts +1 or Iuvenalis Mittens for MND/STR+7.

For the body you will probably want to use something else. Augur's Jaseran or the Rubeus Jacket comes to mind with MND+13, or the Praeco Doublet with MND+15. Or you could gear for accuracy with either the Reverend Mail (DEF:50 MP-25 MND-5 Accuracy+10 Evasion+10) or the Hydra Doublet (DEF:43 MP+40 Accuracy+10 Evasion+10 Enmity-9).

As a note, i already have the +2 orison duckbills, as well as hydra doublet, and praeco doublet. These are all things i had considered though, the procilio belt i had wondered about but i had thought that the benefits of the gorget/belt (which i own both of already actually!) would be more consistent and overall better, but dont have the belt and thus cant test. I did adhere to the rule that attack should improve whm's numbers more because as a rdm also i felt that a little str is also important but can be somewhat equalized with a propper boost spell. As for inventory issues, its a woe i am all too familiar with, but i constantly make sacrafices and find things that i had used for one task before that i dont need urgently for it later (Auger body over praeco for example). So if the ws set was something i wanted bad enough, id make sacrafices to have it. The only thing i didnt take into account was obtainability, because i was simply trying my hand at a "great" or "very good" whitemage weaponskill build based on information presented to me.

As for woe weapons over empyreans, i have friends who could help me obtain the empyreans, but most are on hiatus from ffxi, and i am literally sitting on the coins/crests/high crests for the woe weapons, and some nms (Chloris, Bukhis, ulhuadashi) are not worth my time to make multiple sets and pop for weeks on end. If i were making a greatsword/gun/greatkatana on the other hand, i would honestly just solo those, but as it is right now i am neither in the position to buy, nor make any other empyrean weapon until my friends return, while i already have the coins and materials to make the others. So for my time investment, the WOE weapons which i will have done to 90 the day i finish each's VNM path will provide me adequate performance over what i have for high-tier weaponskill linked weapons (Nothing). And to be totally clear, the coins i actually obtained in a rather timely manner while just enjoying myself in WOE, there was no effort to obtaining them for me so much as i simply got pouches and the only effort on my part was unbagging and not throwing them away.

I do appreciate the sentiment, and am well aware with which is better, but at the moment, i either take a WOE or go without for an undisclosed amount of time, and i cant be bothered to start a shout group to make the weapons either as i still have oh so much more to do (two jobs still 95+ but under 99 to level, skilling, missions, other key magian equipment, +2 items to collect for relic and emp gear...)

Im just working with the tools on hand is all.

Did some dynamis a few weeks back, mostly messing around with friends on EP orcs. Did about equal amount of both Hexa and Realmrazer and found RR to come out about 10% ahead on average. Hexa can spike higher though.

Setup I used for both:
Hexa Strike: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/139083
Realmrazer: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/242092

Obviously in Abyssea Hexa will stomp all over everything though.