For those of us who still support the PS2 version of FFXI

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Originally Posted by rog

This has nothing to do with ps2 limitations.

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is all about it. Texture/wire mesh/music, they can't afford to do much anymore, so they recycle the current data.

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Originally Posted by Shewp

The PS2 is 11 years old, I find it absolutely ridiculous that SE is still supporting it. Simply give all PS2 players a free 360/PC client and drop it completely. Just imagine a what can be done without those limitations! Most PS2 players have a PC anyways.

If anyone wants this game to live longer, SE MUST drop support for the PS2 and move on to better things.

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No company is dumb enough to drop large sources of income.

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Originally Posted by JagerForrester

PS2 user can still access their accounts if they ever switch to PC or XBox. I'm proof of that cuz i didn't want to go through of the hassle of buying outdated hardware. I'm a believer that outdated hardware will soon disappear from FFXI

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Indeed you are correct. Accounts are for your POL ID, not which console or machine you play through.

However, on the subject that's been brought up about dropping the PS2 support I do have this to say: Without a doubt the limited hardware of the sadly long forgotten and unsupported PS2 HDD is hampering the progression and future development of Final Fantasy in a great and striking way. Given the unfortunate turn of events surrounding FFXIV and its horribly small and continually dwindling player base I imagine SE is all the more desperate and reliant on the income that FFXI provides.

Its no secret that SE made considerably less during the last year than they anticipated (about 12% of their projected financial gain). Cutting PS2 support would only cost them dearly given how popular the platform is for use in Japan. However, I could see a phasing out plan as being vastly useful in the long run.

Perhaps by setting a timeline, say a year, for a planned drop of PS2 support along with an offering of a free digital download of the PC version of FFXI to any and all players with valid registration codes would set up a proper standing for being able to truly increase the content and capabilities of Final Fantasy XI. Without a doubt, both from a visual standpoint and a content standpoint leaving behind the PS2 would open many many doors of expansion potential. Of course, with this change should also come about greater marketing to renew people's interest in FFXI.

Its simply not something that can be done quickly or without care, but eventually, for the sake of the game and given its age, not removing support for the outdated system will only damage FFXI's growth to the point that it will eventually fall to the low numbers FFXIV is now supporting (which is approximately a meager 15k users, supposedly).

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Originally Posted by Ilax

is all about it. Texture/wire mesh/music, they can't afford to do much anymore, so they recycle the current data.

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Recycling it uses the same resources as new data would. They remake the same zones because it's easier to do so with minimal effort. It has nothing to do with the ps2.

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Originally Posted by PizzaTheHut

No company is dumb enough to drop large sources of income.

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Out of all my time on FFXI, i've never run into a single PS2 player on FFXI.
I doubt it's a large source of income.

Speaking of income, they'd get so much more if they were capable of doing more advanced updates if it were not for the PS2's limitations.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

Out of all my time on FFXI, i've never run into a single PS2 player on FFXI.
I doubt it's a large source of income.

Speaking of income, they'd get so much more if they were capable of doing more advanced updates if it were not for the PS2's limitations.

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I agree completely, how many FFXI players use the PS2? How many of those players have a PC? The income gained by dropping the PS2 will probably be higher than the income if they simply rot with the PS2.

Of course, only SE knows the actual numbers, which is why we need a dev response! :)

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Originally Posted by PizzaTheHut

No company is dumb enough to drop large sources of income.

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Large sources of income?

Enhance the game and have more ready to join would increase they income.

Support the last 1200 player still on PS2, won't go anywhere, I would like to see a chart of how many still play on PS2.

Like i say i am in to Chip a dollar per month for 2yr just to upgrade these PS2 player lol.

Let them hit the ps2 limitation threshold and then just keep adding content for pc xbox360 and see the ps2 user's either quit or go out and get a cheap system the game still support's dail up for crying out loud. Just my 2 cent's :P

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Originally Posted by rog

Recycling it uses the same resources as new data would. They remake the same zones because it's easier to do so with minimal effort. It has nothing to do with the ps2.

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i am not going to explain it again :) just a duped zone (mean they reused the same data + added 9~10 sound track) made PS2 HDD too full.... imagine if they add a new zone now... I agree it made easier for SE too, but no way it cost that much to SE to create a new zone >< Is actually what they did before reach limitation of PS2 (Zilard, CoP, Aht Urhgan)

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Originally Posted by Ilax

i am not going to explain it again :) just a duped zone (mean they reused the same data + added 9~10 sound track) made PS2 HDD too full.... imagine if they add a new zone now... I agree it made easier for SE too, but no way it cost that much to SE to create a new zone >< Is actually what they did before reach limitation of PS2 (Zilard, CoP, Aht Urhgan)

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The HDD is not actually full, it's still got tons of space. The problem with the ps2 was that the partition used by ffxi was too small, so it couldn't use the rest of the HDD.

If they release a new version of the client with a better GUI for new platforms I would be happy to let my ps2 version die. As long as they are going to continue officially supporting a dead platform and not even update the the windows version for newer operating systems/directx10, I should be able to find discs for my ps2 and right now I can't. I still don't have Wings of the Goddess on my ps2 :mad: Luckily I have both ps2 and pc, but the times I am stuck using my ps2 I can't enter any zones that need WotG.

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Keep in mind dropping ps2 doesn't necessarily mean making the current ps2 version unable to log in, just means no new stuff for it. Ever failed to register an expansion and tried to zone to that expansions zones? Something like that.

Thank you everyone willing to chip in money to a pot to upgrade all the PS2 players! lol Change is good and I'm all for SE dropping PS2 if it ment more expansion for FFXI. It would be nice if SE offered easy transition to PC or Xbox. I don't see SE buying all the PS2 players an Xbox or a PC but its a nice thought. I do think there are more PS2 players then everyone thinks, but I'm just guessing. I mean how often do you ask people you meet on FFXI what they play it on? Along with that how often do you get to ask a Japanese player what they play on? A chart showing the percentages of all the players and what they play on would be awesome but I'm not sure if we'll get a copy of it to scheme changes that major for SE. If it did happen warning in advance would be wonderful to give all the PS2 users time to get ready for the change. Making a PS3 version of the game is also always welcome. :)

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

Out of all my time on FFXI, i've never run into a single PS2 player on FFXI.

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Soooo what a couple months? Also I'd like to see your research on that. Screenshot of every single /tell you've sent to every single player that's replied as proof. I need server name to.

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Originally Posted by rog

The HDD is not actually full, it's still got tons of space. The problem with the ps2 was that the partition used by ffxi was too small, so it couldn't use the rest of the HDD.

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yes and because the HDD and PS2 is not only use for FFXI >< Don't SE had to ask Sony to take more space? Anyway, is limited, 11 yr old, and can get something 10x better for 100~200$ :(

I really wan see a chart* of how many still playing FFXI on PS2 :P

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Originally Posted by Ilax

yes and because the HDD and PS2 is not only use for FFXI >< Don't SE had to ask Sony to take more space? Anyway, is limited, 11 yr old, and can get something 10x better for 100~200$ :(

I really wan see a chat of how many still playing FFXI on PS2 :P

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Pretty much. It's what? 40 gb, iirc? Unless you're using it to store pirated games or something, there's no possible way to fill that. They could have made the ffxi partition 30 gb, and no one would ever need more than the remaining 10 gb, and they'd never fill 30 gb for ffxi either. And no, they don't need sony's permission to use the hdd.

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Originally Posted by Gadanae

Sadly, PS players are slowly getting da boots from FFXI. It seems that way anyhow. They are slowly phasing out support for Playstation (i.e. not being able to get the expansion packs easily) not to mention all the freeze ups, download, and graphic problems that playing on PS systems have experienced as of late.

One just hopes that they don't mean to get rid of PS players, but technology moves on.

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Until the bulk of Japanese players don't play with PS2 versions anymore, we'll always have to deal with "PS2 limitations".

The PS2 version is going nowhere.

The HDD is 40 GB, FF11 including all expansions isn't above 20 GB.

I think it's pretty obvious that the FF11 dev team hasn't been given as much funding as they had at first, leaving them with no choice but to reuse a lot of data. It's a pretty sad situation, and I hope they get more money to develop stuff with again. I do suspect that the huge investment that FF14 was (and continues to be) is much of the reason. I think FF11 earnings are more or less poured right into FF14 development.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

The HDD is 40 GB, FF11 including all expansions isn't above 20 GB.

I think it's pretty obvious that the FF11 dev team hasn't been given as much funding as they had at first, leaving them with no choice but to reuse a lot of data. It's a pretty sad situation, and I hope they get more money to develop stuff with again. I do suspect that the huge investment that FF14 was (and continues to be) is much of the reason. I think FF11 earnings are more or less poured right into FF14 development.

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Sad when you see 14... They should have probably keep it into 11 lol

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Originally Posted by Starcade

Until the bulk of Japanese players don't play with PS2 versions anymore, we'll always have to deal with "PS2 limitations".

The PS2 version is going nowhere.

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It's 2011! I don't know how it is in Japan, but here in California everyone has a computer (mac,pc, laptop, whatever). And since it is 2011, every modern computer in existence can run FFXI flawlessly. SE could easily pull this off as long as they offer a transition with minimal cost for the few remaining PS2 players.

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Originally Posted by PizzaTheHut

Soooo what a couple months? Also I'd like to see your research on that. Screenshot of every single /tell you've sent to every single player that's replied as proof. I need server name to.

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So defensive..
And since 2009 i've been on FFXI and by the way, the second thing you mentioned is absolutely hilarious. I take it you're a PS2 player.

It's quite hilarious to see how childish people can be on a forum, everyone seems so nice in-game..

Im pretty sure it the system not the HDD for the limitation's. Can have all the memory in the world but if the system can't support the upgrade they have in mind well...______________

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Originally Posted by Shewp

It's 2011! I don't know how it is in Japan, but here in California everyone has a computer (mac,pc, laptop, whatever). And since it is 2011, every modern computer in existence can run FFXI flawlessly. SE could easily pull this off as long as they offer a transition with minimal cost for the few remaining PS2 players.

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And guess what!!! lmao, almost all these mac, computer etc come from japan >< ironic.

You can already download FFXI for free on PC, i can't see any cost.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

So defensive..
And since 2009 i've been on FFXI and by the way, the second thing you mentioned is absolutely hilarious. I take it you're a PS2 player.

It's quite hilarious to see how childish people can be on a forum, everyone seems so nice in-game..

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Crushed your research huh? Actually I play on PC also I just prefer PS2. I'm also tired of the "drop PS2" replies just because you think you'll get a better game from it. Give it up already you know it's not going anywhere and try contributing a reply/topic worthwhile for the game.

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Originally Posted by PizzaTheHut

Crushed your reserch huh? Actually I play on PC also I just prefer PS2. I'm also tired of the "drop PS2" replies just because you think you'll get a better game from it. Give it up already you know it's not going anywhere and try contributing a reply/topic worthwhile for the game.

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Research? It wasn't research it was my experience in FFXI and, I was sharing that experience in this thread.

If Square-Enix has constantly said they couldn't do certain updates because of the PS2 Hardware limitation. I'm pretty sure that means the PS2 is holding us back.

I bet they're spending countless man-hours just trying to figure out how to get even the smallest new feature to fit into the PS2's 32 MB of RAM.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

I think SE should reevaluate it's PS2 userbase and think about moving them to their own dedicated servers then. It seems IMHO, XI is doing better than XIV atm. I logged into XIV yesterday during XI maintenance to find 3ppl in Gridana. I understand they are working on a new battle system for Spring. However if XIV continues the way it is, they might be better off using its resources for a XI 2.0 while keeping a XI 1.0 server(s) for PS2 userbase.

Doing this can break these so called limitations and keep it's stronger userbase going with new content and jobs while keeping the PS2 userbase happy.

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They can't do that because some people play the same character on multiple platforms. I play on PC when I need to, but PS2 primarily. Also, if your console dies and you switch to PC or Xbox 360, you'd lose access to your character. The whole point of the system they did is interoperability between multiple platforms. There is no country or platform discrimination on the servers, from the point of the software.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

The HDD is 40 GB, FF11 including all expansions isn't above 20 GB.

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FFXI's partition is 8 GB, and the data files for the game use a bit over 4 GB of that. However, temporary patch files aren't always deleted, and you have to use homebrew on the PS2 to manually delete them. This led to the patch error saying there wasn't enough free hard drive space (meaning on the FFXI partition). FFXI's original partition size at JP launch was 5 GB, and they increased it to 8 GB when Zilart released. They could increase it again unless: 1) the PS2's file systemhas a limitation of 8 GB (no idea, haven't tried to create a larger partition); or 2) there have been so many changes in the development staff that nobody remembers how to change the partition size anymore.

If 1 is the problem, they could try to change the game to use a seperate partition for each expansion, thus bypassing the limit, but they'd have to have the updater create new partitions and copy files, which may not be possible inside POL. That could also possibly fix situation 2, but the current dev staff may not know much about the PS2 file system at all to do this.

After 9 years since JP PS2 beta, there's probably no original development programmers on the staff anymore.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

Research? It wasn't research it was my experience in FFXI and, I was sharing that experience in this thread.

If Square-Enix has constantly said they couldn't do certain updates because of the PS2 Hardware limitation. I'm pretty sure that means the PS2 is holding us back.

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That's great, and as someone who's been playing since release my experience has met with lots of friends including Japanese ones who still prefer PS2 today and would rather use PC for something better. Just lay off the PS2 flames.

Also "couldn't" can also translate to "we're just lazy" or "it's not cost effective" excuse.

The only way I'd support a terminated PS2 service would be a graphics(at least FF13 level) over haul and release for PS3(I'd pay as much as $5 to download it to!)

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Originally Posted by thefinalrune

Perhaps by setting a timeline, say a year, for a planned drop of PS2 support along with an offering of a free digital download of the PC version of FFXI to any and all players with valid registration codes would set up a proper standing for being able to truly increase the content and capabilities of Final Fantasy XI. Without a doubt, both from a visual standpoint and a content standpoint leaving behind the PS2 would open many many doors of expansion potential. Of course, with this change should also come about greater marketing to renew people's interest in FFXI.

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It's not a problem of giving the PC client away, it's easy enough to find the installer for free, as there's no copy protection on the PC version. The problem is having the hardware to run the game. I don't have a 360, and a new computer is something I don't have the money for all at once very often. I generally go 8 years between computers. I don't know a lot of Japanese people with gaming computers, they don't update unless they have to, and consoles are more popular for gaming.

They could easily start an official torrent for the PC version installer, and let people download it, then just start paying the fee to get a registration code and an account. Giving every PS2 user a computer capable of the game is a more expensive issue. Paying the monthly fee for a year is less expensive than getting a new machine. We may be able to pay to play the game, but not to get a current computer.

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Originally Posted by DuoMaxwell007

As for borrowing an install disc from a ps2 player sure that would be easy if said ppl existed or werent rare.. i mean if you got a ps2 CoP disc (or collection 2008 ps2 disc) I can borrow and you wanna mail it to me so I can reinstall Id very much be greatful :p

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My issue with that would be wanting a deposit, to be returned upon return of the disc. The last person I loaned a disc to for research purposes (my PSBBN install disc and a few games with HDD support before NA PS2 HDD release), cut off communication with me and posted my items up for auction on another site. One of the discs I didn't get back because he sold it. With me being in Alaska, I couldn't just drive to the address I mailed it to, so I made our chat logs public (including the mailing instructions he gave me) after finding out he blocked my IM accounts from seeing him online and he refused communication with me. I don't want to have to try to repeat that again if someone pulls that on me.

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Originally Posted by bungiefan

It's not a problem of giving the PC client away, it's easy enough to find the installer for free, as there's no copy protection on the PC version. The problem is having the hardware to run the game. I don't have a 360, and a new computer is something I don't have the money for all at once very often. I generally go 8 years between computers. I don't know a lot of Japanese people with gaming computers, they don't update unless they have to, and consoles are more popular for gaming.

They could easily start an official torrent for the PC version installer, and let people download it, then just start paying the fee to get a registration code and an account. Giving every PS2 user a computer capable of the game is a more expensive issue. Paying the monthly fee for a year is less expensive than getting a new machine. We may be able to pay to play the game, but not to get a current computer.

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Any PC, gaming-spec or not, made within the last 5 years, is going to be able to run FF11 at PS2-level graphics or better. I do not believe that most japanese players do not have a PC that meets the requirements. Even my laptop from early 2005 can run this game.

I wouldnt do something like that, especially over a ps2 installation disc, and even if i were to do something like that youd have my mailing address plus chat log proof that would prove is owned by you and me keeping it would be theft.. thus youd know exactly where to send the cops, trust me "stealing" a cop disc wouldnt be worth the hassle or risk it would take to do that even if there was a chance I could get away with it... the risk/effort wouldnt be worth the reward

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Originally Posted by PizzaTheHut

That's great, and as someone who's been playing since release my experience has met with lots of friends including Japanese ones who still prefer PS2 today and would rather use PC for something better. Just lay off the PS2 flames.

Also "couldn't" can also translate to "we're just lazy" or "it's not cost effective" excuse.

The only way I'd support a terminated PS2 service would be a graphics(at least FF13 level) over haul and release for PS3(I'd pay as much as $5 to download it to!)

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So this isn't even about what's beneficial to the game.

It's about you wanting to play FFXI on a Sony system.

I am willing to spend $30 + s/h for a new PS2 install disc of FFXI which alleviates some of the PS2 limitations (like the amount of PS2 HDD space apportioned to FFXI) such that we can have more expansions.

Who's with me?

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Originally Posted by DuoMaxwell007

I wouldnt do something like that, especially over a ps2 installation disc, and even if i were to do something like that youd have my mailing address plus chat log proof that would prove is owned by you and me keeping it would be theft.. thus youd know exactly where to send the cops, trust me "stealing" a cop disc wouldnt be worth the hassle or risk it would take to do that even if there was a chance I could get away with it... the risk/effort wouldnt be worth the reward

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Well, I have an American 2008 disc. I'm in Alaska, and I won't ship outside the US or Canada. Take the discussion off the forums with me if you wish to discuss it. I'm not hard to find.

Are we allowed to post links on these forums? I see some Off-Lease computers on the Tiger direct web site for $110 that'll probably run FFXI flawlessly at the same resolution as the PS2, but they don't come with monitors.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

So this isn't even about what's beneficial to the game.

It's about you wanting to play FFXI on a Sony system.

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So this isn't even about what's beneficial to the game. It's about you in denial thinking dropping a large portion of the player base will actually benefit the games time frame.

Given that the new engine for 14 is to work with the ps3, then they already have ability to add 11 to the ps3, they just need to make 11 work with the new engine.

For those they have a ps3 but not the discs, they could offer the game as dl from the sony store.

I agree. If it won't cost SE a ton of development time & money to port FF11 to ps3, i think they should go for it. Hell they should go for it regardless and update a bunch of stuff they never could before. Even something like upping the graphics might draw-in quite a few people who are obsessed with graphics only.

It seems it would benefit SE to come up with a Ps3 verson of ffxi. On the Playstation boards people are constantly asking if fffxi can be installed on a ps3 slim. If SE came up with a ps3 version, it would out sell the 360 version easily. I have a 60 gig ps3, and I would buy an updated ps3 version in a heartbeat.