November 2019 FINAL FANTASY XI Digest

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

you can just do that with one of those newfangled gaming keyboard things.

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No, thanks. I'd rather to pay the dev team more than that expensive keyboard. Not everyone has a super computer though.

I don't agree. It takes money to make money and what you mention on the part of the company not being able to do it is pure speculation. Fracture? Nah. People will make their own accounts. But look this game is meant to be played with others. I don't think you have read where SE said if the game gains popularity they would continue to support it. They said that, and one of the things they wanted to do was invest in newer servers--again not my words. They also said they have a decent size in that same year and that they set the goal for 2021 because they wanted to ease the tension and have their team not feel pressured. But as far as POL, trust me it can handle A LOT MORE traffic. This game at its peek had 500k subscribers. POL will be fine.

I have read what you talked about with regards to the "build". Instead of it being a build, what was said was they didn't save the source code. It is why they needed the PlayStation 2 Devkits to develop for this game to this day--because they do not have the existing source code. That is different than them not having access to the original game without updates.

As far as the private servers is concerned, SE can just make a C&D and be done with it. The game is SE's property and they are in it to make money. If they were to do it or not, that's on them and I am sure many who host private servers expect it and those that play on them know this is a strong possibility. Nothing wrong with SE protecting their IP either. I don't see where it can't be done. I see the disenfranchisement but this game doesn't stop people from having two characters. Now, one can have their opinion the matter, and that is a personal belief on splitting the community and a valid discussion to have. But I think for sure, the other points aren't a concern.

Let me interject; I realized that people are still unfamiliar with all of the accommodations within the menu interface. You can do this with your mouse if you wish or of 'course the proper way to play FFXI with your keyboard. Anyhow from the Menu -> 5th selection down is *Synthesis*. Click on that. Another menu will appear, click on *History*. This will display your recent synthesis actions. Click on the recipe you'd like to repeat from that history list. As long as you have the required materials in your inventory when you select *Ok* it will repeat that synthesis.

There is also a sub-menu to access from the synthesis history list that allows you to designate *Favorite* as you wish or *Unfavorite* (self-explanatory).

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Originally Posted by Zehira

No, thanks. I'd rather to pay the dev team more than that expensive keyboard. Not everyone has a super computer though.

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A basic gaming keyboard costs less today than the standard membrane keyboard I bought for my MS DOS machine like 25 years ago. You don't need a "super computer" to use one either. It is child's play to program your keyboard to automatically press enter every so often.

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This will display your recent synthesis actions. Click on the recipe you'd like to repeat from that history list. As long as you have the required materials in your inventory when you select *Ok* it will repeat that synthesis.

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For clarity to others, this is what I'm referring to, and it's how you can essentially press enter a bunch of times to repeat syntheses.

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Originally Posted by Seish

I don't agree. It takes money to make money and what you mention on the part of the company not being able to do it is pure speculation. Fracture? Nah. People will make their own accounts. But look this game is meant to be played with others. But I don't think you have read where SE said if the game gains popularity they would continue to support it. They said that, and one of the things they wanted to do was invest in newer servers--again not my words. They also said they have a decent size in that same year and that they set the goal for 2021 because they wanted to ease the tension and have their team not feel pressured. But as far as POL, trust me it can handle A LOT MORE traffic. This game at its peek had 500k subscribers. POL will be fine.

I have read what you talked about with regards to the "build". Instead of it being a build, what was said was they didn't save the source code. It is why they needed the PlayStation 2 Devkits to develop for this game to this day--because they do not have the existing source code. That is different than them not having access to the original game without updates.

As far as the private servers is concerned, SE can just make a C&D. That simple. The game is SE's property and they are in it to make money. That simple. If they were to do it or not, that's on them and I am sure many who host private servers expect it and those that play on them know this is a strong possibility. Nothing wrong with SE protecting their IP either. I don't see where it can't be done. I see the disenfranchisement but this game doesn't stop people from having two characters. Now, one can have their opinion the matter, and that is a personal belief on splitting the community and a valid discussion to have. But I think for sure, the other points aren't a concern.

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I mean, you can live in a fantasy land where this will happen all you want, but it's not going to happen.

And yes, it will fracture the community. Even if just a small number of people leave live for classic, it will cause harm. It will force the devs to divide resources- Something has to happen with "classic" or people will grow bored and stop playing. It can't just stay frozen in time forever.

Look, I will try to relocate the past discussion there was on it for you, but it is true- they don't have archives of the early builds of the game.

And as I said before- even if they can do it, the community needs to come ot an agreement about what they consider to be classic. The game didn't release globally at the same time like WoW did. For North America and the rest of the world outside Japan, Rise of the Zilart *is* the beginning. But for Japan, the game was out for a long time before it came to the US and the game was very different then from w hat most of us remember.. Then there are the people who just want to go back to before abyssea allegedly ruined the game (which is an argument I don't agree with but opinions vary wildly on this subject).


It is not going to happen. There have been people coming here and elsewhere asking for it for years, and it was essentially shot down by SE a while back. It. Will. Not. Happen.

as an extra bonus:
A lot of people who ask for this suffer from the rose-tinted glasses effect. Even if you get to have a server from XYZ year in FFXI's past, you'll find that it isn't just the same:
-You've done it before, so you don't get the same feeling from completing it again.
-Many players will tell you, half of what made FFXI so fun was the community- grinding together, doing contents together, since FFXI made you group for almost everything. But only a certain subset of the population wants to do "classic server" in the first place, and some people are just done with the game entirely and a classic server won't bring them back. So the population will be much lower than any real FFXI server ever was- It will be harder to group and that sense of community will just not be there the same as it was originally.
-Many people who play on classic servers become discouraged when they discover they have to start over from the beginning (i.e. can't have your old character in the state it was at the time) and don't really want to go through the grind all over again. This is the exact reason I didn't bother with WoW classic. I did like vanilla better than anything that came after. But the only thing I was truly interested in was doing Alterac Valley (before they changed it from an epic ongoing battle to just a short thing) and maybe UBRS, which I never beat while it was current. But I didn't want to spend dozens of hours leveling up a new character from the beginning to do those two things.


Feel free to read the lengthy thread on the subject here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...Classic-Server

and as one of the later comments in that thread notes, you can play "classic" on any server on the live game already. All you have to do is not complete the limit break quest past level 75 (or level 50 if you want to limit yourself more to the content available at JP launch). If you want to play with others, just use the level sync feature or find friends willing to subject themselves to the same limitations. This is something you couldn't do in FFXIV btw, because it doesn't require any special quest or anything to raise the level limit, it's merely base don the expansions you have on your account.

Dude I was about to post but your edit to your shorter post to this longer one killed it. As you said in that post, it is the communities to descide. I agree and with the success of WOW classic, and looking at how many posts on here, and in other forums, asking and pleading for this to be a thing suggests there is enough die hard players who want it. So what if people are gonna redo it. Games have something called replay value. It's why the used game market is huge.

I have read the topics concerning the original build, but it wasn't called a build it was the source code. And as you said, that was heresay. You can have the original game history and run with that. But you cannot recreate the wheel easily outside of that without the source code. It's why they use the PlayStation 2 Devkits even when the PlayStation 2 is no longer supported.

But look it seems you are invested in your character. No one is telling you not to. But if a classic came out, people could have multiple. And you see this with people that play on here and in Eden and Nasomi. It's a thing, people will play both. And I think that at the end of the day that's enough for us. But you also need to remember a company is in it for the money too. They have people that they have to pay, and if a game doesn't make it gets cut out. So if Square could make money on this and make the game relevant, as to what you pointed out that it has been brought up a lot in the past, then there should be strong consideration, on both sides, the merit of it. But the game can handle it and the infrastructure is there and would be invested if there is potential. Nasomi doubled in size the moment Ninja went there, for example. And who isn't to say in the age of streamers and professional gaming that it wouldn't take? I think it would.

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But look it seems you are invested in your character. No one is telling you not to. But if a classic came out, people could have multiple.

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I think you'll find that most people are / were invested in their characters to a point that they wouldn't want to start over for a classic server. And as I added to the previous post- You can easily make the game "classic" already, minus job adjustments and QOL additions. Just don't complete the level 80 limit break quest, and bam. You're locked to doing content a level 75 can do. Find some like minded friends and you're all set. You don't need a special server or mode.

FFXI was just never a big enough game to begin with for a special server to be financially viable.

Tell that to the people who have asked and brought it up before me and the growth of private servers. Now you are speaking of how you personally feel about it. But SE needs to bring people in. That is the remedy for the problem.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

A basic gaming keyboard costs less today than the standard membrane keyboard I bought for my MS DOS machine like 25 years ago. You don't need a "super computer" to use one either. It is child's play to program your keyboard to automatically press enter every so often.




For clarity to others, this is what I'm referring to, and it's how you can essentially press enter a bunch of times to repeat syntheses.

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You're advocating for automation, that is against the rules actually. With the keyboard thing.

I consider CoP classic, because that's when I started playing with game getting released in the EU game, that's where the game was at.

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Originally Posted by Seish

Tell that to the people who have asked and brought it up before me and the growth of private servers. Now you are speaking of how you personally feel about it. But SE needs to bring people in. That is the remedy for the problem.

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Aren't those private servers free to play? They aren't a measure of how many people are willing to pay for a classic server.

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Originally Posted by Seish

Tell that to the people who have asked and brought it up before me and the growth of private servers. Now you are speaking of how you personally feel about it. But SE needs to bring people in. That is the remedy for the problem.

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Nothing is going to get people who already play on privates to start paying for the official release again.

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I consider CoP classic, because that's when I started playing with game getting released in the EU game, that's where the game was at.

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Well the NA release was Zilart and the JP release was the base game. Therein lies the problem.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Nothing is going to get people who already play on privates to start paying for the official release again.


Well the NA release was Zilart and the JP release was the base game. Therein lies the problem.

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I know a ton that play on private servers and they said they would if SE made it. And if a C&D was sent to these servers, people would have no other option but to. Which as I stated before is SE's right. As to your second point, I agree with you. But that is why the community should discuss what we should consider classic. The classic we commonly call it is known to those that play private servers as "Era". Era includes the base game all the way to ToAU--which is all content up til the end of 2005. Do we go with Era, or do we go to the base game itself? Those directions are honestly up to the community but it's worth floating around. But if SE played its cards right, people will come if those servers started to shut down and if a classic has been provided.

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Originally Posted by Typral

You're advocating for automation, that is against the rules actually. With the keyboard thing.

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What he is describing is a common feature in 3rd party controllers known as "Auto-Fire". No, using something like that which can only spam a single button/key is not against the rules.

The discussion about "Classic" and "Private" servers really does not belong here.
It also needs to die in general as a discussion topic.

In the hopes of killing it, I'll just point out that a few years ago, the devs went on record during a live event that there will never be "Classic" servers, so the entire argument is moot. (Due to legal/licensing reasons I believe, so this qualifies as a "can't" rather than "won't" issue even if the company wanted to do so.) In the same event, they also said that FFXI will never go F2P, that they won't/can't accept crowdfunding for FFXI, and that there won't/can't be any ports to new hardware platforms. It doesn't matter how hard you plead, or how pinpointed your desired content specs are, or anything else that you want to try to use to justify your desire, if it is a literal impossibility.

@Seish: If I were you, I'd be careful about any "Private" server discussion on the official forums in general beyond condemning the practice. It is straight-up stealing both IP and revenue from the company after all.

@DevTeam: Can we please get a response to this thread? I want to have reassurance that this is not all that you are planning for BST, and to stop feeling disgusted and insulted that you were hoping to get away with counting the addition of two types of ammo as a "job adjustment". :( If you are simply not sure about what adjustments the job actually needs or that players want, might I suggest opening a thread officially requesting player feedback for ideas? Most of the vocal BSTs in the community are very reasonable people and would be overjoyed at the opportunity to provide reasonable feedback for improvements that won't damage game balance. ^^

I am only bringing it up for the sake of what SE has to face going forward as a challenge for the game. I have even offered remedies to handle that and it is plain as day I am not condoning any sort of piracy. So your attempt to derail something that is going on and accusing me of supporting private server play is nefarious and is trying to derail the merit in the discussion. Now I see that you want a single player game. Are you aware how much money that would cost? Where would they start with? The UI, the mechanics, the engine. What quests to keep and gut? There's a lot there that they need to figure out, as this game is MASSIVE.

And SE said a lot of things they would never do and reversed their decision. The Limit Point system was supposed to kill any need to raise the cap to 99. But here we are. They mentioned Abby was the last main content, but we get SoA. And revisiting the classic, and restressing my point, is that there's a market and there's a need. SE can take swift action to control these pirate servers and create a classic server. But let's not think of hypotheticals. In the Blizzard community, they actually discuss in detail the difference between the two and why going to WOW Classic is better leading up to the release of the reboot. They discouraged private downloads, like I am, and explained the merits of playing a rebooted game with the support of Blizzard. The players have asked in our community, and I think it's fair to have the discussion.

So rather than accuse me of condoning piracy, please look carefully how I said SE should send a C&D. That is legal term for Cease and Decist. It's an action warning a party that company A will go after a person if the Organization B doesn't cease their actions. That is me condemning it completely and there's no way to twist it.

Edit: Nice including @devteam after my post. I'm glad we moved away from accusing people of falsehoods.

@Devteam I have explained the warrant for my initial post and I defend it as being, though a tangent, related and hope that any feedback would be seen and considered as this topic has been brought out countless times.

@Seish: Not one word of your last post has anything to do with the November 2019 update, so it has no place being in this thread. I also did not accuse you of anything, other than posting about an irrelevant topic to the thread, which also happens to be a dangerous topic on these forums to be discussing as a general rule, unless you are actively trying to get yourself banned from here. ^^;;

Back on topic, are there any SCH-main players who have any feedback about what they gave to /SCH? XD I don't really play the job, so I'm not that familiar with what would work as "good" adjustments and can't give any feedback beyond laughing at how /SCH benefits far more than SCH/ from the changes.

I did explain in my first post on this thread why it mattered, but your kind words are noted.

In that post, I said the following:

"I mention it on here, because it's related to the updates in general. Their hard work, and posting a video for us to see, is coming a long way to when the dev team was closed and barely told us what was going on. I think going forward, the game can grow. Please look into my suggestion."

As this was an update with respect to BST, while expressing how I felt about how many in the community felt about gameplay with Bst in "Era" and seeing I had a comment about gameplay in general, the post is at worst, a tangent but related. I didn't break a rule. Unless of course condemning it is wrong, which I highly doubt. But when you have Ninja play in Nasomi, who is a paid game influencer and sponsored by several gaming companies and merchants, it's hard NOT to say that it's a thing. Pretending it isn't is wrong, but encouraging SE taking swift legal action is absolutely correct. That's what I did.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

Back on topic, are there any SCH-main players who have any feedback about what they gave to /SCH? XD I don't really play the job, so I'm not that familiar with what would work as "good" adjustments and can't give any feedback beyond laughing at how /SCH benefits far more than SCH/ from the changes.

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My alt is a mastered SCH with its most expensive and well-geared equipment designed mainly for healing. I'd say this adjustment didn't help much even Sublimation helps more and you can use it as /SCH though.

I'd love to see SCH to get either Cure V or make Regen V duration longer with Perpetuance. Since SCH has more nuking spells from the Job Point system and everyone prefers SMN instead of BLM (weird right?). I'd probably drop it and go with WHM instead since everyone prefers WHM for healing. Therefore, multi-boxing with both GEO and SCH does a magic work. What I know SCH is only good for when they need SCH in order to MB (like in Omen). Just want something what SCH is good for. :(

It's a versatile job and is very difficult to enhance it too much without making it OP. A lot of jobs are having this issue honestly and is why I pointed in a previous thread that SE should point us to where they are taking the game. It seems a LOT of jobs are at this point it feels like.

Knowing that, would that change your mind? How would you enhance it without it intruding too much into what other jobs currently do?

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Originally Posted by Seish

It's a versatile job and is very difficult to enhance it too much without making it OP. A lot of jobs are having this issue honestly and is why I pointed in a previous thread that SE should point us to where they are taking the game. It seems a LOT of jobs are at this point it feels like.

Knowing that, would that change your mind? How would you enhance it without it intruding too much into what other jobs currently do?

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Currently, I am fine the way SCH is for now. It has its limited stratagem (5 charges) for using both accession and perpetuance (Regen V + Indi-Refresh FTW). It's just not as good as WHM, a reason is if you use Cure IV too much it builds more hate than Cure V can do. Cure V is not compatible with accession because SCH doesn't have that spell. What else can make it better? I don't know. This adjustments just gives /SCH more love while main SCH is happy with Sublimation improved so I don't need any Refresh. While SCH only has Cure that up to tier 4, I use my other GEO to balance healing enmity.

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Originally Posted by Typral

You're advocating for automation, that is against the rules actually. With the keyboard thing.

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It's not against the rules for me to use my hardware's built in functionality. And even if it was, to the PC it's just normal inputs. Gaming input devices today can do this at the hardware level. This isn't a bot or a script, it's just repeatedly mashing a key. Something any human being can do. And I do not advocate walking away and leaving the game unattended. I only advise it as a means to reduce the number of keys you have to press.

These devices do not interact with the game software in any way. This is no different than putting a clamp on a controller button to hold it down.

If you want to press the enter key 100 times to synth a couple stacks of items, be my guest. but my keyboard doesn't enable the game to play itself- it just saves me from carpal tunnel.

FFXIV now lets you synthesize repeatedly with a simple checkbox ingame. Until SE does that for FFXI, I see no reason not to leverage my PC's innate ability to make that easier without any third party programs.

(Disclaimer: I don't even craft much at all, much less actually use keyboard macros) but I don't appreciate the insinuation I'm some kind of cheater if I were to use my keyboard's built in features to ease a repetitive task.)

I mean really: are turbo buttons on controllers cheating? I don't agree that it is. Turbo buttons are doing something I can do already, just without injuring my hand.

By your logic, using in-game macro features to simplify tasks is against the rules, because it's no different- one ingame macro saves you from many dozens of keystrokes. You can in fact do *most* of this with ingame macros- it just doesn't reduce the number of keypresses by as large of a number.

It's no different having those gaming keyboards that have hotkeys. In a sense, it's kinda like automating, but the difference is that it's done with hardware and is a function that is not exploitatious. You aren't going to be able to do the same thing again and again and again of complex tasks like a bot. But it's like rapid-fire for a controller, which exists. Are they cheating? No.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

The discussion about "Classic" and "Private" servers really does not belong here.
It also needs to die in general as a discussion topic.

In the hopes of killing it, I'll just point out that a few years ago, the devs went on record during a live event that there will never be "Classic" servers, so the entire argument is moot. (Due to legal/licensing reasons I believe, so this qualifies as a "can't" rather than "won't" issue even if the company wanted to do so.) In the same event, they also said that FFXI will never go F2P, that they won't/can't accept crowdfunding for FFXI, and that there won't/can't be any ports to new hardware platforms. It doesn't matter how hard you plead, or how pinpointed your desired content specs are, or anything else that you want to try to use to justify your desire, if it is a literal impossibility.

@Seish: If I were you, I'd be careful about any "Private" server discussion on the official forums in general beyond condemning the practice. It is straight-up stealing both IP and revenue from the company after all.

@DevTeam: Can we please get a response to this thread? I want to have reassurance that this is not all that you are planning for BST, and to stop feeling disgusted and insulted that you were hoping to get away with counting the addition of two types of ammo as a "job adjustment". :( If you are simply not sure about what adjustments the job actually needs or that players want, might I suggest opening a thread officially requesting player feedback for ideas? Most of the vocal BSTs in the community are very reasonable people and would be overjoyed at the opportunity to provide reasonable feedback for improvements that won't damage game balance. ^^

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Thank you for doing what I wasn't capable of.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

@Seish: Not one word of your last post has anything to do with the November 2019 update, so it has no place being in this thread. I also did not accuse you of anything, other than posting about an irrelevant topic to the thread, which also happens to be a dangerous topic on these forums to be discussing as a general rule, unless you are actively trying to get yourself banned from here. ^^;;

Back on topic, are there any SCH-main players who have any feedback about what they gave to /SCH? XD I don't really play the job, so I'm not that familiar with what would work as "good" adjustments and can't give any feedback beyond laughing at how /SCH benefits far more than SCH/ from the changes.

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With all due respect though, you aren't a forum moderator and don't make the rules. Whilst I agree that the tangental discussion is better served in another thread (if at all) It isn't your place to tell people where they can and can't post things. If the community team/SE has a big enough problem with it, they'll take action. Don't be a backseat mod. As a moderator on various other forums it REALLY irritates me when users try to take moderation issues into their own hands.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

With all due respect though, you aren't a forum moderator and don't make the rules. Whilst I agree that the tangental discussion is better served in another thread (if at all) It isn't your place to tell people where they can and can't post things. If the community team/SE has a big enough problem with it, they'll take action. Don't be a backseat mod. As a moderator on various other forums it REALLY irritates me when users try to take moderation issues into their own hands.

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I've seen people get banned from here for less potentially-objectionable-to-the-devs posts, so my advice really was given in the spirit of a friendly warning to a fellow player. There are few enough of us who bother to type in these forums these days for me to just idly stand by and watch someone throw themselves face-first into a banhammer. :(

I will admit that I was probably getting a tiny bit irked at that point because I got a full screen rant in response to a two sentence warning to be careful, all of which had nothing to do with complaining about this update's "job adjusments". ^^;; Since I happen to play BST and can talk to the shortcomings it has currently, personally, I want to focus on the slap in the face that I received this month in the thread dedicated to this month's update. Can you really blame me for that? lol

BTW, I would be offended as a player if they did this with any job, even one that I don't personally enjoy. I just don't know what to really make of the SCH adjustment, (other than the obvious joke about it being a great update for /SCH,) and even the few people I know who do play SCH couldn't come up with any sane improvements, so I'm also curious what anyone else has to say about it.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

I just don't know what to really make of the SCH adjustment, (other than the obvious joke about it being a great update for /SCH,) and even the few people I know who do play SCH couldn't come up with any sane improvements, so I'm also curious what anyone else has to say about it.

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I just leave it to BLM vs SMN problems. It's their own problems. Not to try to use FFXIV jokes. I'd rather to balance WHM instead though.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

I will admit that I was probably getting a tiny bit irked at that point because I got a full screen rant in response to a two sentence warning to be careful, all of which had nothing to do with complaining about this update's "job adjusments". ^^;; Since I happen to play BST and can talk to the shortcomings it has currently, personally, I want to focus on the slap in the face that I received this month in the thread dedicated to this month's update. Can you really blame me for that? lol

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It doesn't matter if you had a bad day, or if you had whatever, you divest emotions and try to remain logical in a discussion that had no personal attacks thrown to anyone--at all. Bad grades, bad day, disagreements with others, or a job nerf on a video game, shouldn't be motivation to personally attack someone. And if you disagree with me, keep it with the topic not deviate and personally attack the indvidual. Don't try to scare me into submission. I read the rules and I posted what I did knowing that I won't get in trouble. I understand your frustration. When MNK got nerfed to the ground, my one and only job, that I honestly cared for the most, was not the same and my motivation for playing went away. It took my motivation to play. So seeing that you are passionate about a job that you are willing to defend it makes me happy. We need the community to continue that passion--no matter the opinion for that matter. Ergo, why I brought up trying to create a classic server, from a job mechanic perspective--to include BST which we can get into.

I don't take offense personally what you said, knowing that your passion is what drives this. But the biggest takeaway is try to divest emotions from it. There is a ignore list if you really dislike what I say and I would encourage you to utilize that resource if you feel any ill emotions towards me. But we are all in the same community, and like you I want to see it grow.

I have serious question for the devs. I am not trolling or flaming. This is a serious question.

Why do you insist on releasing repeat jug pets instead of actual new ones? I would really appreciate an answer. There has to be a reason, right?

Hoping this thread receives an official response from the DEV team. It has been years since an update received such an overwhelming response on these forums.

Thank you for the large number of feedback responses.
We understand that there are many requests to increase the range of beastmaster abilities, such as Ready.
However, upon careful discussion with the Lead Job Designer, we have decided that the range of these abilities will not be adjusted.

▼ Beastmaster is designed as a frontline job.
I’d like to provide a brief history of beastmaster from a developer perspective.
Some points may greatly differ from player opinion, but please give it a read.

The original concept of beastmaster was a frontline job based around Charming monsters to turn the tide of battle.
The process of Charming would sometimes result in direct combat with the monster, so beastmaster was given the equipment and damage output to thrive until they succeeded in gaining control over a monster.

As time went on, Battlefield content became the main focus of the game.
This was difficult to enjoy as a beastmaster as many BFs do not feature monsters that can be Charmed.
Our solution was the addition of Call Beast and broth items, which allowed players to call out monsters as obedient pets.
These pets always obeyed commands, providing a sort of consumable battle resource for beastmaster and stabilized the state of the job.
Things were good up until this point.

▼ Balance Issues caused by Pet Adjustments
As stronger enemies were introduced over time, it became apparent that beastmaster and their pets weren’t keeping up.
Unlike other jobs, pet-based jobs had to be balanced around both the player character and pet, which in turn made it difficult to implement powerful new equipment or pets.

In order to resolve this situation, we made major changes in the very first version update in 2015.
Monsters were now able to participate in skillchains and magic burst, making them an overwhelmingly powerful source of damage.
While this method required some preparation, the changes allowed beastmaster to easily catch up and deal high damage more effectively than any other job.

Ultimately, this allowed beastmaster to issue commands from a safe distance, while pets that were far stronger than the beastmaster themselves would continuously fire off powerful abilities.
Pets also had decent survivability, and even if they were defeated, they could be called out again at full power after a five minute cooldown.
At this point, beastmaster was capable of battling with almost no risk to themselves.

Player skill was not involved in this version of beastmaster, since no matter what attacks enemies had, they could be defeated by endlessly sending out powerful pets.
This was even more effective in parties with multiple beastmasters, which created some extreme cases where pets did all the fighting and players didn’t battle at all.
Battles were streamlined into a monotonous process, and enemy mechanics became meaningless.

▼ Corrective Measures and the Future
To address this, we kept beastmaster’s strength while making sure its equipment and traits were used to fulfill a frontline role, and shortened the range of commands to bring back a sense of risk to the job.
While these adjustments lowered beastmaster’s capabilities, it was compensated for with the continued implementation of various meals and equipment, and that brings us to today.

With this history in mind, we don’t have plans to alter the job’s design as a frontline role and would like this source of damage to be accompanied by some risk.

As we’ve often mentioned, these job adjustments aren’t final, and we’ll continue making adjustments to improve its frontline capabilities.

If possible, we’d like to create a final stage for Chocobo Racing, but we haven’t had the time or resources and the idea keeps getting pushed back.
We’re hoping to implement it at some point in the future, so we ask you to please wait until then.

If we made scales shareable account-wide, there will be players who want them for secondary characters, or those who don’t need them right now but want more for later.
This may result in a situation where those who actually want them right now would be unable to obtain them.
It would also allow players to simply create one powerful character with the necessary equipment to make scales easier to obtain for the rest of their characters.
Since this is relevant to the final stage of artifact enhancement, and we’d like to maintain a difficulty appropriate for capabilities, we currently aren’t considering making scales shareable account-wide.

Um, if that's the problem with BST, how about SMN? I edited your post for SMN. It's identical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yoji_Fujito

At this point, SMN was capable of battling with almost no risk to themselves.

Player skill was not involved in this version of SMN, since no matter what attacks enemies had, they could be defeated by endlessly sending out powerful pets.
This was even more effective in parties with multiple SMNs, which created some extreme cases where pets did all the fighting and players didn’t battle at all.
Battles were streamlined into a monotonous process, and enemy mechanics became meaningless.

---

Oh. And, adjust Final Heaven. K thanks.

You do really need to slap some sense into the designer. BST commands REALLY need some amount of range increase, not to keep them "danger free" but to make them functional. There is a LARGE area between where commands used to work and where they work now. It doesn't have to be either or, you've got 19 yalms to play with. There is no safety difference between 1 yalm and 8 yalms. There are times you can literally be standing on top of your pet and the commands will fail to activate, in what world is that acceptable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yoji_Fujito

Thank you for the large number of feedback responses.
We understand that there are many requests to increase the range of beastmaster abilities, such as Ready.
However, upon careful discussion with the Lead Job Designer, we have decided that the range of these abilities will not be adjusted.

▼ Beastmaster is designed as a frontline job.
I’d like to provide a brief history of beastmaster from a developer perspective.
Some points may greatly differ from player opinion, but please give it a read.

The original concept of beastmaster was a frontline job based around Charming monsters to turn the tide of battle.
The process of Charming would sometimes result in direct combat with the monster, so beastmaster was given the equipment and damage output to thrive until they succeeded in gaining control over a monster.

As time went on, Battlefield content became the main focus of the game.
This was difficult to enjoy as a beastmaster as many BFs do not feature monsters that can be Charmed.
Our solution was the addition of Call Beast and broth items, which allowed players to call out monsters as obedient pets.
These pets always obeyed commands, providing a sort of consumable battle resource for beastmaster and stabilized the state of the job.
Things were good up until this point.

▼ Balance Issues caused by Pet Adjustments
As stronger enemies were introduced over time, it became apparent that beastmaster and their pets weren’t keeping up.
Unlike other jobs, pet-based jobs had to be balanced around both the player character and pet, which in turn made it difficult to implement powerful new equipment or pets.

In order to resolve this situation, we made major changes in the very first version update in 2015.
Monsters were now able to participate in skillchains and magic burst, making them an overwhelmingly powerful source of damage.
While this method required some preparation, the changes allowed beastmaster to easily catch up and deal high damage more effectively than any other job.

Ultimately, this allowed beastmaster to issue commands from a safe distance, while pets that were far stronger than the beastmaster themselves would continuously fire off powerful abilities.
Pets also had decent survivability, and even if they were defeated, they could be called out again at full power after a five minute cooldown.
At this point, beastmaster was capable of battling with almost no risk to themselves.

Player skill was not involved in this version of beastmaster, since no matter what attacks enemies had, they could be defeated by endlessly sending out powerful pets.
This was even more effective in parties with multiple beastmasters, which created some extreme cases where pets did all the fighting and players didn’t battle at all.
Battles were streamlined into a monotonous process, and enemy mechanics became meaningless.

▼ Corrective Measures and the Future
To address this, we kept beastmaster’s strength while making sure its equipment and traits were used to fulfill a frontline role, and shortened the range of commands to bring back a sense of risk to the job.
While these adjustments lowered beastmaster’s capabilities, it was compensated for with the continued implementation of various meals and equipment, and that brings us to today.

With this history in mind, we don’t have plans to alter the job’s design as a frontline role and would like this source of damage to be accompanied by some risk.

As we’ve often mentioned, these job adjustments aren’t final, and we’ll continue making adjustments to improve its frontline capabilities.

---

This is a terrible response. Terrible.

Summoner avatars can skillchain. From a safe distance. And do powerful abilities, stronger than beastmaster while under the effects of Astral Flow and Astral Conduit. Their pets don't have a recast cooldown and are totally disposable. And parties of summoners can take down powerful enemies faster than a balanced party, trivializing Reisenjima HELMs and Warder of Courage.

The logic of this does not follow. Not at all.


The result of your design decisions for beastmaster is that we can't be easily used in fights where summoner and puppetmaster flourish, like the new Odin high-tier battlefield, or any of the many Ambuscade fights where SMN can burst it down from distance. And we do not have strong melee damage, either. We do less melee damage with the master than support jobs like corsair or bard.

Please rethink beastmaster's current design. It is not working in the current game environment.

Quote:

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Some points may greatly differ from player opinion, but please give it a read.

---

What I just said is not player opinion. It's fact. Stacking Astral Flow and Astral Conduit, summoners can outdamage beastmaster, safely from a distance, and the effect is that fights which should be challenging are trivialized. So that's balanced, and beastmaster doing a lesser version of the same thing is imbalanced?

Quote:

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▼ Corrective Measures and the Future
To address this, we kept beastmaster’s strength while making sure its equipment and traits were used to fulfill a frontline role, and shortened the range of commands to bring back a sense of risk to the job.
While these adjustments lowered beastmaster’s capabilities, it was compensated for with the continued implementation of various meals and equipment, and that brings us to today.

With this history in mind, we don’t have plans to alter the job’s design as a frontline role and would like this source of damage to be accompanied by some risk.

As we’ve often mentioned, these job adjustments aren’t final, and we’ll continue making adjustments to improve its frontline capabilities.

---

You guys continue to miss the point. This isn't about whether beastmaster is a front line job or not. It's about the fact that your changes intended to force BST to play on the front line actually hinders players that ALREADY ARE on the front line. You can modestly increase the range of pet commands to a value between what it used to be and what it is now to reduce frustration without allowing the player to performe actions completely safely. Since the BST hast to literally almost be standing on top of their pet to issue commands, if you're not willing you may as well just get rid of the pet entirely and move all its features into the player.

I understand that Summoner was designed to be played at range while BST was not. However, BST was never substantially more powerful than summoner as a provider of safe damage, especially in that capacity. BST has a cooldown to call a new pet while SMN does not.

There are many potential ways for you to promote your vision of the job without making it so immensely frustrating for the player. Instead of limiting command range, why not add a trait which enhances the power of both master and pet when they are close to each other? This would make battling alongside the pet preferable for higher DPS without essentially physically chaining the player to the pet monster.

Playing BST in its current state feels a bit like playing the NES Classic Edition with those controller wires that are too short.

(That said, unless you're a really bizarre player like me, SMN doesn't have the survivability to be anywhere near a dangerous foe, so they have every right and need to be doing DPS from afar under normal circumstances, so please make BST great again, but not at SMN's expense <3 )

Next thing you know, the Fun Police are going to give summoner pet commands a MINIMUM range so I can't do solo darkness with my own pet using Clausturm. It isn't really better than the way most people summoner but knowing SE I half expect them to dump on my playstyle just for the sake of doing so....

A BST pet is not stronger than a SMN's pet. A BST at distance are not using their axes. So, if your argument is "A BST master has higher damage potential than the SMN master," you are correct. However, A BST standing a mile away eating popcorn are not using his/her damage potential, because they are not DDing.

So, the BST standing back are weaker than a SMN because they are not using their axes. Thus, changing BST ready range was null & void.

Therefore, forcing people to be at close range is null & void. If BST pets had higher dd potential than a SMN's pet, you would have a point. However, that is not the case.

& I am a guy whom got into an argument with nearly everyone in the BST community, You can check the BST section for proof. As a close range BST, this aint it chief....

Oh, & you still didn't answer why you constantly release duplicate jugs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yoji_Fujito

Thank you for the large number of feedback responses.
We understand that there are many requests to increase the range of beastmaster abilities, such as Ready.
However, upon careful discussion with the Lead Job Designer, we have decided that the range of these abilities will not be adjusted.
....
As we’ve often mentioned, these job adjustments aren’t final, and we’ll continue making adjustments to improve its frontline capabilities.

---

"Not final"?!...but Beastmasters have waited almost 4 years for an adjustment! To receive duplicate pets is very insulting!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yoji_Fujito

Thank you for the large number of feedback responses.
We understand that there are many requests to increase the range of beastmaster abilities, such as Ready.
However, upon careful discussion with the Lead Job Designer, we have decided that the range of these abilities will not be adjusted.
...
▼ Corrective Measures and the Future
To address this, we kept beastmaster’s strength while making sure its equipment and traits were used to fulfill a frontline role, and shortened the range of commands to bring back a sense of risk to the job.
While these adjustments lowered beastmaster’s capabilities, it was compensated for with the continued implementation of various meals and equipment, and that brings us to today.

With this history in mind, we don’t have plans to alter the job’s design as a frontline role and would like this source of damage to be accompanied by some risk.

As we’ve often mentioned, these job adjustments aren’t final, and we’ll continue making adjustments to improve its frontline capabilities.

---

Dear Director Yoji Fujito,
Thank you for providing a detailed response on the current status of Beastmaster. You have made it clear that for better or worse, Beastmaster simply is not a development priority and over the past 3 years, have made no new frontline capabilities or otherwise meaningful adjustments to the Beastmaster job. Similarly, adding new jug pets with only cosmetic differences and calling it a "job adjustment" is dishonest and dubious. It serves as an unfair disservice to the players with whom, Square-Enix has built a relationship with over the past 18 years. The sporadic updates and lack of meaningful change to the Beastmaster job have left me with no other choice but to retire. Due to limited inventory constraints, I have decided to remove Beastmaster-specific items from my inventory. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

https://i.imgur.com/UsZdCsQ.png