SE's stance on buyers isn't the one time buyer. Or those that buy in small amounts. It's the ones that buy a ton for projects. Those that buy themselves are not so much the problem--though it accelerates it. Who is, however, are those that sell the product to them. Because its getting to the point that RMT's are starting to corner in the smaller services, the modes of production and can corner services and goods. That's not good for anyone at all. What we shouldn't do is alienate those that buy per se, we should discourage it and explain why. What we need to fix is this culture of blackballing people that report RMT. It's not good for anyone to discourage players from reporting a huge issue.
RMT everywhere
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12-03-2019, 02:57 PMSeish
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12-04-2019, 02:20 AMAlhanelemWe absolutely should alienate them. We need these people to understand that buying will come at a cost even if SE doesn't pick up on them and ban them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seish
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12-04-2019, 03:39 AMMikah
lul
ten characters -
12-04-2019, 03:43 AMAlhanelem
Sorry, but I'm just not going to stand behind the argument that "buying once" is okay. Buying even once is an endorsement of the behavior, and so is turning a blind eye to the people "buying once."
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12-04-2019, 03:46 AMMikah
Every (internet) game in existence has pay to win. Pay for more tries. Pay for more lives. Pay to skip this thing. Pay to skip this grind.
That's all it is. It will never not exist.
If you want to play games where people can't/don't buy the win stick to single player games. If there is any possible way to interact with another player, smart people are going to use money to get ahead. Every time. Always. Forever. And to be totally honest, they couldn't care less how you feel about it. -
12-04-2019, 04:27 AMAlhanelemQuote:
Originally Posted by Mikah
I've never played a paid retail game that let me just buy extra lives etc. The game I played that came closes to that is Bravely Default, but that's about the only time I've ever seen it.
And again, the problem with your argument is this is an MMO, and unlike your unspecified games that let you buy your way through the game, this MMO has rules against this sort of thing and those rules are being broken. Unless and until SE adds its own officially sanctioned pay to win mechanics, anyone buying gil will and should be treated as cheaters. You are tacitly endorsing cheating (that is, explicitly breaking the rules set forth here. You may have rolled over and accepted this but I won't and neither should anyone else.
Again: Using sanctioned ingame mechanics is different from breaking the rules with outside the game mechanics. I don't like those either, but it's not breaking the rules to use a built in feature of the game in a manner approved by the people who made it. -
12-04-2019, 07:34 AMSeishThere is truth here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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12-04-2019, 07:39 AMStompaI totally agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Buying Gil destroys the Role Playing Game RPG part of MMORPG.
When I joined FFXI in 2004, I was arriving from a background of playing Dungeons And Dragons table-top since the early 1980s, being an AD&D Dungeon Master for three decades, and also being a huge fan of the groundbreaking and wonderful Baldur's Gate PC games.
In RPG, you can't just say "my character suddenly obtains millions of gold coins from a Bank Account in an alternate dimension" and yet this is exactly what Buying Gil does.
In FFXI, your character starts out with nothing, just some level one pyjamas and an Adventurer's Coupon to obtain 50 Gil. Becoming rich took a lot of work, and sometimes luck, which is called RPG realism. Back in the original game, it also took ages to level up and to skill up, which again is RPG realism.
I always felt that it was wrong to make the acquisition of Gil, experience points, and skill-ups, so much faster, in recent years, because I felt that the original core FFXI's slow progress actually reflected the RPG realism of the hardships that an adventurer faces. Not everybody in life has the guts to be an adventurer, not everyone in life becomes a Master, and not everyone in life becomes a billionaire.
What I liked most about the original FFXI was the stratification, the structure, and the strict rules that made adventuring difficult from level one onwards. This added realism to the character's adventuring journey, it gave the character a history of overcoming obstacles and enduring hardships. This made the characters feel more rounded, more real.
There is nothing realistic about a character that sleepwalks AFK from level 1-99 and then uses sparks books to instantly skill up to Skill Master Status. Similarly there is nothing realistic about an RPG character that suddenly obtains millions of Gil from a Bank Account on planet Earth.
Realism is not about graphics. Realism is about atmosphere and lore, and emotional engagement, the fact that you believe in and relate to a RPG character. The NPCs and player characters in FFXI might look like toy soldiers and dolls, compared to new 2019 eye-candy games, but those FFXI NPCs and player characters exist in a world that has a lot of history and lore and memories, all of which create an atmosphere of realism and emotional engagement.
Being an adventurer is not for everybody. Adventuring is a hard life. This is why most NPCs chose to be shopkeepers and townspeople, instead of being adventurers. And if the hardship of adventuring is removed entirely, it is no longer an adventure. -
12-04-2019, 08:04 AMMikah
You can absolutely "suddenly obtain millions out of thin air"
Game Shark. Game Genie. Code breaker. Cheat Engine. Underflows. Programming errors. Glitches.
You can do it in D&D too, you just have to pass a roll check.
New mobs, do not give any kind of gil anymore. Anything created after adoulin gives zero gil on kill and cannot be mugged. And even old mobs aside from kings don't drop or mug more than a measly 15k ish. -
12-04-2019, 08:17 AMAlhanelemHacking/cheating devices are also breaking the rules, what's your point? It's not approved, if you used any of those things anything you did in the game would be discreded by any external source.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah
But even that's beside the point because in an offline/oldschool single player game, the only person affected by your cheating is you (unless you use a cheating device in a speedrun and try to pass it off as legit playing). This is all different from sanctioned, official helps included within a game. Those are considered to be within the rules, even if we don't like those features. That's a lot different than using game genie / action replay.
TL;DR yes the stuff you describe is a thing, but it's still cheating and it's still breaking the rules and it served no useful purpose for you to mention.
I'll just quote myself again:
Quote:
Again: Using sanctioned ingame mechanics is different from breaking the rules with outside the game mechanics. I don't like those either, but it's not breaking the rules to use a built in feature of the game in a manner approved by the people who made it.
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12-04-2019, 12:17 PMSeish
The comments she makes baffles me. She basically endorsed RMT in a post that was later removed by SE if that gives anyone here a idea of where she stands.
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12-08-2019, 08:26 AMZehiraHello Minamikun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minamikun
I am sorry, I don't speak Japanese so I can't post on your thread. I hope you understand that not every English player is on this official forum. For some reason, they prefer their alternative forums such as FFXIAH, Reddit, and Facebook to avoid the risk of account termination that is applied here. Obviously, they are not that stupid or you can say Asura is big enough to have our own in-game forum that manages the community using /yell.
Please ignore the GameShark joke, I don't agree with that either. Whether the STF has determined my account or not just because I wrote doesn't mean I actually buy/sell gil. I am one of multi-millionaires doing my own business like anyone else.
I have determined the Japanese forums and noticed some Japanese players have considered the merge of their servers but the main problem is their character names. I also noticed Japanese players want to see English players to get banned for breaking the rules just because there is nothing you want to help them to avoid buying gil. Is it true? I was on Bahamut before and saw the big picture. I think what to break the rules, a choice between two options...
A) Work to gain gil as much as you need.
B) Save your energy and buy gil.
Myself, I picked A. Unfortunately, if you have been on Asura you will realize how expensive stuff are on the AH compared to the minority servers. It's always mysterious for you. As long as you can't figure out how to fix then the rules will be broken constantly. Not many players who have moved to Asura want to go back to the minority servers where they belong. They feel blessed to be in the large community regardless of our reputation.
Thank you and have a wonderful day! -
12-08-2019, 09:40 AMAlhanelem
I don't believe that JP players are any more or less likely to be rule breakers as NA players are. Heck, most of the most egregious rule breakers are the chinese gil farm botters anyway.
Nationality or language shoujldn't even play a part in this discussion.
This is why, even with the declining population, piling on one server isn't a good idea. The experience is honestly better on the other servers even though the population is lower, which is the opposite of what most people would think- "There's more people on big servers therefore I can make more friends and do more stuff!" It's only half-true. More people do bring more opportunities, but they also bring more problems. I'll take my small circle of friends on Shiva than giant cliques that I can't relate to /identify with.Quote:
Myself, I picked A. Unfortunately, if you have been on Asura you will realize how expensive stuff are on the AH compared to the minority servers. It's always mysterious for you. As long as you can't figure out how to fix then the rules will be broken constantly. Not many players who have moved to Asura want to go back to the minority servers where they belong. They feel blessed to be in the large community regardless of our reputation.
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12-09-2019, 11:09 AMZehira
Just found the link from the Japanese thread. It is already happening. Only a temp-ban to warn the players.
https://jp.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/54...-thanksbanning -
12-09-2019, 01:38 PMSeish
The Japanese in general do not like cheaters. Their culture on playing is different than ours and honestly I agree with them. I think a suspension is a good start and warnings that aren't necessarily a strike on the account but I think after that if they are caught or anyone, a more strict punishment should be made. SE needs to take this stance and they need to send a message.
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12-09-2019, 03:02 PMAlhanelemIn general nobody that cheats likes cheaters. This isn't a cultural thing, it's just a fact. And don't think there aren't Japanese cheaters either. Possibly not as many but scummy behavior knows no borders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seish
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12-09-2019, 03:06 PMSeish
Obviously some do, but if you read the forums they are the most active of all of us I feel and are more vocal about cheating than we are. I don't have numbers, maybe SE can give us demographics as to who they ban. That would be cool bro but they would never in their lives do that.
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12-09-2019, 03:21 PMZehiraYou aren't on Asura though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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12-09-2019, 04:01 PMAlhanelemIt's basically irrelevant. Other servers aren't as bad as Asura on this front but that doesn't mean cheaters don't exist, and exist regardless of nationality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zehira
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12-09-2019, 10:51 PMZehira
People on Asura thought the STF and GMs don't do anything for the players. They basically tell the players, "We are aware. You have a wonderful day!"
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12-10-2019, 01:06 AMSeish
Well now they know.
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12-27-2019, 07:15 AMZehira
Hello! I hope you all are having a wonderful day during the Holidays! :)
Here is a new update!
Opinions from Japanese players:
A little long ago, I saw a cheater using an odd equipment back in 2017. Have it got fixed? I don't think so.
https://cdn.ffxipro.com/images/ss/mi...9dc2955a7d.jpg
I was also surprised how general players are aware of RMT being a part of the MMO world including FFXIV. Is the STF team investigating properly? I doubt it. Are third-party tools/scripts "currently" permitted? I think we should encourage the STF team to push general players to obey the rules. That's really a matter, of course.
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Opinions from English players after Matsui's recent post:
That would make too much sense to do stuff on the official forums. I'd rather not to mess with or read carefully here due to the fact this place has a full of sheep that must obey the rules. For real discussion, I'd recommend somewhere like http://www.bluegartr.com/ or FFXIAH would work fine.
FFXIAH: Please keep reporting any other concerns you have
(They are just some free-thinkers who are afraid of getting banned by forum moderators.)
We even thanked all bots, RMT, dupers, Chinese, American, Japanese, Mithra, Elvaan, Tarutaru, etc for supporting our undying game of FFXI.
Edited: Another update (2019/12/27). Director Fujito just commented a bit about the problems of bots, RMT, and others. They (Dev team) have been doing a little for each. Each has a small effect. If it makes sense, that will continue through the next year.