What would make you return to ffxi? (if you left and came back for the free access)

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They had a steady cash flow but they didn't know nor want to keep it going and that is their mistake.

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That's not entirely true. The game had been gradually losing players over time for a long time. FFXI lasted far longer than they planned or intended. Just like any game studio making any other kind of game, they hoped to make more money with a new game (which, they probably will, though it certainly ended up taking a hell of a lot longer than they expected- but at least they learned you can't just spit a game out into the wild and expect it to perform) Wings and Audolin were both probably not originally planned in their early game planning- It's probable that their future plans at FFXI's launch went about as far as ToAU. It's pretty obvious in the large amount of recycling that started with Wings.

Every game has a lifespan, and perhaps at the time these decisions were made, they thought the lifespan was spent. (Obviously as the years went by, it's obvious that they were wrong)

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Just as long as the XIV players had to wait during 1.0? I was one of those players,

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I was one of those players as well. The difference is FFXI is long out of the media's eye, so there is far less potential for attention and recovery. Admittedly, part of the problem with SE has always been marketing, and if they really tried in this area, they could pull something off. The hardest part by far would simply be convincing the corporate bigwigs that this investment is worth their time (which it is, I want to always be able to come back to XI and relive the memories; I'm just cynical I suppose about anything really going somewhere.)

As I said early in the thread, the biggest thing stopping me from staying back is money. XIV costs me less to play (with a legacy account) and it's sitll fun (for me, at least). XI is fun too, but it costs more for me to play. A dual discount would likely put me at paying only a little more than the cost of one MMO. And then I'd happily be able to keep both subs active and bounce back and forth as I feel like it.

what would make me stay is a lower/better subcription model. but they already made it pretty clear we wont see that happen any time soon

my idea would be pretty simple
$9.99 USD(whatever this equates to in your own currency) per month and include the first 4 characters with that.
I'm certain that sub model/price change would get more subs and it would help SE get more money in the long run.

What would make me come back long term?

1.) reboot all old content to 99+ (Sky, Campaign, Besieged, Sea, etc. etc.)
a.)Create an NPC that gives the best rewards in the game. (THE BEST) and all the rewards require the same currency to buy. This currency can be acquired from doing all the rebooted content and from the new content as well. (Motivate players to do different things!!! instead of just what the latest update pushed out like every other MMO out there) And the most important part of all this is a necessary evil....you have to make EACH item cost a butt load of currency so that a large portion of the population doesn't get all the gear in just 3 months or less.

2.) Bridge the gap between veteran players and new/returning players. ( the cancer of this game )
a.) The death of any game is when there are no new players entering a game. You have to make it so old and new players can PLAY TOGETHER EASILY to ACHIEVE THE SAME GOAL. Find a balance so new players aren't turned away at the gates from doing any content because they haven't been playing for the past year. This problem is usually remedied by having enough people in the same situation group together to leap over this hurdle. But if your a very small minority then finding each other can (and will) lead to rage quitting the game because you can't DO anything unless a veteran player extends a helping hand.

b.)How do you fix this? Have to motivate people...thats how. Maybe a large currency bonus on completion of content if someone is in the group that has never done the content before. 5x the current rate. Could even make a 2x bonus rate if you go complete the content with someone who hasn't done the content in a week or two. I'm sure a professional game designer can come up with something even better just as long as people are motivated to play with everyone and not just their small list of friends....and you know play online with people at a massive level...

Okay story time. I left ffxi a long time ago and only came back some time around when artifact was being reforged. I left because i wasn't having any fun. Nobody wanted to do anything, and I couldn't solo anything. What I really wanted at the time was the thief relic hands so I could be more useful on thief, only I didn't have any dynamis clears. When I asked about getting them done I was more or less told to level bst and solo them like that. Last thing I did in the game was the level 95 limit break quest. I had worked hard and solo farmed the items to make the rarab tail, but in the end I didn't get to use it and instead some bsts from my linkshell did the fight. They had me stand below the stairs and wait. I didn't even see the fight, it was a rather pyrrhic victory. That was pretty much the nail in the coffin that made me quit.

When I came back, I finished getting to 99, got myself the Espial set from RoE, and with that could solo all the stuff I couldn't before. I got all my dynamis clears, finished CoP and Zilart. Farmed sparks for chapters, and Sky for 109 reforged items to use and sell for gil. I made enough gil like that to buy the crafted artifact upgrade items, and then I had a set of 119 armor. Since then I've done all sorts of things finished WotG, ToAU, gotten all the delve clears, made a relic, made a mythic... I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not actually that hard to catch up, and they have added more to help since I did it.

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2.) Bridge the gap between veteran players and new/returning players. ( the cancer of this game )

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Which is why I thought it was asinine to give active players a permanent 150% cap bonus ring and not give players that return from being inactive the same thing.

Yes, I have no idea why they got rid of the discount for playing both games. The fact FFXI cost most is very silly, with the legacy discount that is.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Which is why I thought it was asinine to give active players a permanent 150% cap bonus ring and not give players that return from being inactive the same thing.

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This is exactly why I'm not playing right now. I was all set to pick up the expansion while it was discounted and start subbing again, but then I found out about all these temporarily available items with permanent cp bonuses (moghancement, kupofried trust, rings, etc). I'm far enough behind as it is without making a fraction of the cp active players get going forward. Just totally killed any motivation I had to play.

Uh that ring barely lasts one pull of anything. You can get the one from sparks and its just as good and you can keep rebuying them. That's a silly excuse.

The ring isn't so great that it should turn one off from even playing again. It lasts all of 10 minutes before it wears off and then you're waiting nearly 2 hours to use it again. It's a measly 30k exp. There's another 30k exp ring for capacity called capacity ring. It's got 7 charges 50% bonus and costs 5k sparks which are earned very easily with minimal effort. I wont bring up the one ring 11 charges that is only gotten once per year. There's bonuses to CP through RoE to boot. There's a mantle you can buy on the AH that provides 25-30% CP if you don't have a betterer mantle from incursion or whatever. You are upset over 1 extra measly JP every two hours, during double xp month. Just think about it for a bit and get back to us how terrible it is you missed out on it.

Right now this very second if coming back and earning exp is your thing, there is a double exp campaign going on. It seems to be a perma thing every 2 or 3 months or so. It's better than any ring bonus ever will be. I suggest you bring it and worry alittle bit less about 1 measly JP per two hours when each job has a 1200 JP cap. A 1 JP beef every 2 hours is an insignificant complaint compared to the 100+ you are sure to want. If you can find a group or form one then it's REALLY an insignificant complaint.

The ring is only one bonus among several that are no longer available.

And sheesh, apparently the community has degraded quite a bit as well. You people are sensitive.

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Originally Posted by Igi

The ring is only one bonus among several that are no longer available.

And sheesh, apparently the community has degraded quite a bit as well. You people are sensitive.

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Ha wow. You just got some good advice. Lighten up.

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The ring isn't so great that it should turn one off from even playing again. It lasts all of 10 minutes before it wears off and then you're waiting nearly 2 hours to use it again.

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If you got them on mules, you can swap them out to circumvent the 2 hour timer. that's also aside the fact that you can still use the Capacity Ring while the other ring is down. It's still a permanent advantage, and breaks with the prior trend of offering limited-use boost items for the appreciation campaign. I would have been less bothered if that was the case. It's a fairness issue- They have even in the past had return home campaigns that gave the returning players the EXP ring from the previous appreciation event. So why didn't they do it this time?

it might not seem like a big deal to you, but it's the principle of the thing- it's simply unfair to returning players. I don't even know if there will ever be another oppertunity to obtain this ring, because events may well cease with the major content updates (Perhaps a community rep could clarify if the seasonal events will continue?)

There was just a second opportunity to get one, and there will probably be more after. Basically any time you get a red pell you can get it.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

If you got them on mules, you can swap them out to circumvent the 2 hour timer. that's also aside the fact that you can still use the Capacity Ring while the other ring is down. It's still a permanent advantage, and breaks with the prior trend of offering limited-use boost items for the appreciation campaign. I would have been less bothered if that was the case. It's a fairness issue- They have even in the past had return home campaigns that gave the returning players the EXP ring from the previous appreciation event. So why didn't they do it this time?

it might not seem like a big deal to you, but it's the principle of the thing- it's simply unfair to returning players. I don't even know if there will ever be another oppertunity to obtain this ring, because events may well cease with the major content updates (Perhaps a community rep could clarify if the seasonal events will continue?)

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At that point you will say that anything is unfair since you've been gone. Sorry but people who subscribed come first over people who hop on for freebie time and then quit fast when its over.

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Originally Posted by Draylo-

At that point you will say that anything is unfair since you've been gone. Sorry but people who subscribed come first over people who hop on for freebie time and then quit fast when its over.

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I might stay longer than freebie time if SE was fair to its playerbase. And I'm saying it's unfair because it IS. They're giving rather poor incentive for players to return.

So what you're telling me is, "#(%# you all non-currently-subscribing players, we don't want you here!"

My complaint is legitimate and I stand by it. Players who come back should be on a level playing field.

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There was just a second opportunity to get one, and there will probably be more after. Basically any time you get a red pell you can get it.

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Didn't know about the red pell thing til after it happened and I didn't even know what the ring was until after I started the game up.

How is it unfair? It's been like that since this game started, seasonal events which is where the ring came from (the anniversary.) The red mog pell included it but also included a lot of other items that were desirable. It was most likely a ploy to get people to sub just for the eligibility to get it, just like any other game or company does to bring in revenue. I don't see whats unfair here, especially considering this ring isn't that special. Yes you could have stored a bunch but that means you would have to keep going back to a dbox to get it, which would drastically lower your exp/hr considering how fast you get it now.

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Originally Posted by Draylo-

How is it unfair? It's been like that since this game started, seasonal events which is where the ring came from (the anniversary.) The red mog pell included it but also included a lot of other items that were desirable. It was most likely a ploy to get people to sub just for the eligibility to get it, just like any other game or company does to bring in revenue. I don't see whats unfair here, especially considering this ring isn't that special. Yes you could have stored a bunch but that means you would have to keep going back to a dbox to get it, which would drastically lower your exp/hr considering how fast you get it now.

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It actually hasn't been like that since the game started- As I stated previously, there have been cases where returning players were given the anniversary rings after the fact. They could have easily done that this time as well.

The ploy wasn't all that strong considering they listed a bunch of rings and items and didn't tell you what they did. some of the items were familiar but not all.

It irks me because the previous rings have all been temporary while this one is permanent and doesnt run out of charges.

Them rings with unlimited charges that give you exp and job points where gotten during one of the free weeks, I have both of them I don't know what you guys are arguing about.

Free weeks always seem to happen during major updates. Which is kinda nice cause even though we don't pay a sub anymore a lot of us old players still did pay them a lot of money in subs in the past and bought all those expansions so its nice that they less us play to do the new content.

Since half way through Seekers I pretty much only played during the free weeks, which is enough time to get all the story missions done in a couple hours and then you really have no other content to do that is the problem with FFXI. I got 1 set of 119 armor by soloing some ark angles I have no desire to grind more 119 sets that have pretty much the same stats more or less.

I think SE did a good job with 14 I can't seem to run out of stuff to do on there. With the Legacy sub on the 6 month plan its only $7.99 a month for 40 character slots. Compare that to FFXI which is still $12.99 + $1 per each additional slot. So why does FFXI cost more again? My whole FC on FFXIV pretty much are all former FFXI players we had the same linkshell so obviously SE did something right to get back their former FFXI players to play 14. They actually have the #2 sub mmo with 14 behind wow so they are doing something right. Seems to be a lot of hate toward the game from a lot of FFXI only players. If you play it a lot with your friends 14 can be a really fun game.

Except it isn't fun for everyone, its pretty much a WoW clone with FF skin. It has 0 similarities to how FFXI plays or how the item progression was (and is for most things.) I don't know how you run out of things to do when there's 22 jobs and no not all equipment is more or less the same. There are very nice pieces of gear that can make a difference between winning something and not. XIV there's a lot to do? Spam the same 4 dungeons each week to cap tokens using the same combo over and over(at least in XI you can vary it with SC's and spells), then do alex if you can find a competent group and then... what? Do PvP? ha!

All of that grinding and then in the new few major patches its all reset and you can restart on that treadmill. You can't even play multiple jobs to end game things like Alex savage or you gimp your team because you must be forced into one job you spend your tokens on. In FFXI you can play any of the 22 jobs and its much easier to gear them and just play them. You can do things unconventionally (low man delve, soloing certain BCNMs, crazy builds to mess around with like NIN MAB or WHM holy sets, different setups for content) whereas in FFXIV you are stuck to the holy trinity of tank DPS healer.

You pretty much sound like a XIV purist so I won't bother getting into a huge debate with you but your post is so wrong. Most XI players went to XIV because its popular and has pretty graphics with FF related nostalgia, and also because SE gave up on XI. Also just because something is popular doesn't make it "good." Look at how many people bashed WoW when FFXI was in its glory days, those same players are playing a clone of it lol. A lot of people quit all the time in XIV, and regardless if theres people to play with (can't do much with them unless they are in your savage group, no FC content etc.) the community is horrid in there.

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Originally Posted by Billnes

Would it make sense to do a cost-benefit analysis on buying broken PS2 Dev Tools in order make an attempt to have some spare parts on hand? In the YT video I saw, the voice over said that a lot of Dev Tools break because they were handled improperly during shipping. I don't know myself: How hard would it be to repair a cracked circuit board? I was under the impression that if the pathways aren't too tiny, there are methods for removing small areas of varnish from a circuit board, re-soldering the circuit and putting back new varnish. What about removing existing components from a broken board, manufacturing a new board and re-soldering the components to the recreated board?

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Old single-layer double-sided breadboards, maybe. Current circuit boards, no. A cracked board is dead. They are multiple layers, and cannot be repairs, just melted down and remade by the robot that makes them in the factory, if one was still in operation, which they aren't. Components are much to small to desolder and resolder by hand quickly or reliably without a robot built to do so. Even that would assume you could diagnose which component was dead from a non-booting board, and that it was worth the time to pay someone to do so. Humans don't do this work anymore, it's at too small of a size.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

Frankly, I think they should make it so anyone with an active FF14 sub should be able to play FFXI free of charge. Lets face it, FFXI is awesome but its also seriously outdated and not nearly as popular as it once was. By giving this feature to active FF14 players, it allows players who love both MMOs but don't want to pay for both to be able to enjoy both.

Or at the very least give active ff14 subscribers a discounted rate. Whose gonna want to fork out 14 some odd bucks for an older MMO when they are already paying as much for the better looking one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that FFXI isn't great but its still one thing no one can deny: OLD and not worth the 14 bucks a month anymore.

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Pretty much this in a nutshell.

I think the biggest factor to change is the subscription fee IF they want to encourage people to return on a more permanant basis. Would anything make ffxi really popular again?..imo no, its simply too late and the game was left unchanged for too long.

New players also come into the game knowing darn well its on its last legs...not a real big seller there is it.

Even though a fresh player would have oodles of things to do for quite a long time...they know its not gonna last and potentially they may even be on their own (the community is NOT what it used to be) Most times if you arent part of a long term established niche..you are SoL. Ppl will say hello sure, IF you initiate it every single time but thats as far as it goes. (thats the internet in general though and all gaming)
Many issues will deter people.

Sadly, what should of happened is a complete upgrade to the current game many many moons ago!!!!! , and equally as important, if SE would have stopped being so stagnant and stubborn for ANY QoL changes.

QoL changes should of started 6-7 years ago...at least!!!! The major decline would have not started in the first place. I saw a huge loss of players long before Abyssea and rightfully so.

Regarding a complete upgrade: Reading others ppl posts I understand that may not have been really too possible? im NO techie so I cant say but that could have been of one the biggest saviours for ffxi if it was possible.

We have ffxiv now , some adore it, others will hate it, so what? lol Ffxi was indeed their best bread winner, lets see 12 yrs from now if it still was before we trash any other game on the market.

I love aspects of ffxiv as much as some in ffxi. Im not so rigid and "stagnant" to be unable to enjoy a few games, each for their own strengths and weaknesses.
They all can be enjoyable but none are the best. not ffxi, not wow, ffxiv, rift or any others I dabble in. I dont think any are superior to any other , certain aspects may have an edge over another which is why I play a few at any one time.

Sub cost is certainly not a complete solution however, the game IS old, it looks old, it feels old, it plays old. (Thats just reality, and for some thats not reason enough to unsub <--- me included...but dont be blind, step back and look at the whole picture, thats is how it will be seen by new ppl) So se cant expect to appeal to vast numbers ever again. Its not going to happen in ffxi.

"come on back to this 10+ yr old game, yes yes its that old, no you may not get help, oh and more then likely there wont be any further content errr....sorry but nope it still costs the same, yes endgame community is as segregated as any other game yup, come on back ok?" :rolleyes:

Basically the most effective way to get return players : Appeal to nostalgia for vet returns, appeal to less $ for new people. A mix of both is the only solution thats probable

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Except it isn't fun for everyone, its pretty much a WoW clone with FF skin. It has 0 similarities to how FFXI plays or how the item progression was (and is for most things.)

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If it was similar to XI, then they may as well have just made an XI-2. But they didn't want to do that, they wanted to make a new game. Also, FFXI is very different from the rest of the series, and other than part of the bestiary and the jobs, it has comparatively little connection to the rest of the series, whereas in XIV they've been putting in a lot of familiar things from the series' history.

Also the fact that they are dissimilar is what allows me to enjoy both, for different reasons. Which is why there should be a combo discount, to make this more financially feasible.

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All of that grinding and then in the new few major patches its all reset and you can restart on that treadmill. You can't even play multiple jobs to end game things like Alex savage or you gimp your team because you must be forced into one job you spend your tokens on.

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This is full of crap, you can play all the jobs you want. You will have sufficicent gear for the jobs you play long before a new update comes. I'm already unintentionally capping out law and building up alex because I'm not in any big rush to spend them. Some people also make multiple characters, which don't cost extra in XIV, to circumvent those limits if they're that hardcore about playing every job.

FFXI has the same treadmills, they just work in a different way. Every MMO has to have some means of keeping you playing. We can say "just make more/better content" but that only gets you so far by itself. in XI you might not be constantly chasing higher item levels, but instead oyu're constantly chasing niche sidegrade pieces that people will call you gimp if you dont have, and then when you do get them, it just creates an inventory and macro swapping nightmare. So both systems have their pitfalls.

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If it was similar to XI, then they may as well have just made an XI-2. But they didn't want to do that, they wanted to make a new game. Also, FFXI is very different from the rest of the series, and other than part of the bestiary and the jobs, it has comparatively little connection to the rest of the series, whereas in XIV they've been putting in a lot of familiar things from the series' history.

Also the fact that they are dissimilar is what allows me to enjoy both, for different reasons. Which is why there should be a combo discount, to make this more financially feasible.

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I know they didn't want it similar, which is why I don't get why someone would post "just play XIV." Why would anyone who likes XI instantly love XIV, when they are completely different was my point. FFXI has the same connections to the rest of the series like every other FF game. FF11 is also very similar to FF12. FF14 is similar to FF9 where it is overloaded with nostalgia but I find XIV to force most of it in my opinion.

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This is full of crap, you can play all the jobs you want. You will have sufficicent gear for the jobs you play long before a new update comes. I'm already unintentionally capping out law and building up alex because I'm not in any big rush to spend them. Some people also make multiple characters, which don't cost extra in XIV, to circumvent those limits if they're that hardcore about playing every job.

FFXI has the same treadmills, they just work in a different way. Every MMO has to have some means of keeping you playing. We can say "just make more/better content" but that only gets you so far by itself. in XI you might not be constantly chasing higher item levels, but instead oyu're constantly chasing niche sidegrade pieces that people will call you gimp if you dont have, and then when you do get them, it just creates an inventory and macro swapping nightmare. So both systems have their pitfalls.

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You must be a casual in that game and not play the highest tier, nobody is taking a gimped job into savage alex that you spent 0 tokens on. At this point there is no way you have multiple token gear for multiple jobs... Also lol at multiple characters, its the exact reason theres a job system in place, so that you can play everything on one character. Except that they lock you left and right, so my point still stands and is even confirmed by you saying to have another character.

FFXI does not have the same treadmills, only last patch was a LEVEL 30 ring dethroned for multiple jobs as the best TP ring. Gear is not outdated in FFXI like it is in FFXIV, you can grind hours and hours of your life for alex/coil/token gear and then its completely useless outside of glamor from the next major patch. Inventory nightmares only exist when you try to gear multiple jobs, but its part of the fun when you have a working setup for different jobs. At least you can keep that gear and enjoy it instead of just tossing it away or on a retainer forever. I'd rather have inventory issues than having to constantly be grinding gear over and over doing the same treadmill, smash face against 4 dungeons for tokens > do coil type event, maybe a crystal tower type > don't log in for a week.

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You must be a casual in that game and not play the highest tier,

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I love the conclusions people jump to. No, I'm not a "casual." I've played and beaten every piece of content in the game other than savage alexander (which I've not started on just yet).

You're also oversimplifying your routine to the extreme and it doesn't sound much like you've played in a long time, but we can say pretty much the same thing about FFXI, since it has roughly the same amount of content that's currently relevant for endgame. Except instead of weekly limits, its 0.1% drop rates- Which might be better for people that are lucky, but I'm not one of those people.

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FFXI does not have the same treadmills,

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Every MMO including XI has treadmills, just some games disguise them better. Every game including XI has players seeking things out that will make them more powerful- its the natural progression of an MMO character. The difference is in XI you have to keep everything, rarely do you outright replace a piece of gear, leading to inventory shenanigans. Horizontal progression isn't perfect, nor is vertical. Vertical progression hinders attachment to gear, but at least you don't need 87326483274 inventory space to store all your stuff. Conversely, in a more horizontal system you find a lot of things you can keep as useful, but it also makes true upgrades even harder to find and you have the inventory nightmare (and macro swapping nightmare) XI has treadmills, you can't say it doesn't, they just don't stick out as much.

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Why would anyone who likes XI instantly love XIV, when they are completely different was my point.

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Because some people like a variety of different things? Just about everyone I know enjoys a wide range of different games in different styles even within the same genre. Just like I might enjoy both arcade racing games like Mario Kart and also enjoy racing sims- same base genre, but totally different play style. I'm honestly sick of the game bashing here. I don't scan through the FFXIV forums and see all this XI hating, so its evident to me there's a stronger bias on this side. I love both games, and I'd love to continue to play both games, though I wish they'd make it easier for me to do so, because 2 subscription MMOs = a lot of money. I feel like a troll target just for (gasp) admitting that I even play the game at all.

I've played both games, I enjoy them both, and I'm proud of it, I won't stand for being crapped on for it. The community here is incredibly hostile to the mere mention of ffxiv and it's shameful. Just because someone likes XIV doesn't mean they don't like XI, and it doesn't mean they're bad people.

"Because some people like a variety of different things? Just about everyone I know enjoys a wide range of different games in different styles even within the same genre. Just like I might enjoy both arcade racing games like Mario Kart and also enjoy racing sims- same base genre, but totally different play style. I'm honestly sick of the game bashing here. I don't scan through the FFXIV forums and see all this XI hating, so its evident to me there's a stronger bias on this side. I love both games, and I'd love to continue to play both games, though I wish they'd make it easier for me to do so, because 2 subscription MMOs = a lot of money. I feel like a troll target just for (gasp) admitting that I even play the game at all."

Post a thread on the general discussion saying how awesome it would be to see a feature from XI be added to XIV :) I can promise you'll see a flood of it then.

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I don't scan through the FFXIV forums and see all this XI hating, so its evident to me there's a stronger bias on this side. I love both games, and I'd love to continue to play both games, though I wish they'd make it easier for me to do so, because 2 subscription MMOs = a lot of money. I feel like a troll target just for (gasp) admitting that I even play the game at all.

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HA, no XIV players bash XI? Dude, have you been living in a cave? Go post anything XI related on GW feed and look at all the trolls surface, same thing if you post on the XIV official forums or any XIV related video. You must be dreaming on that one.

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Except instead of weekly limits, its 0.1% drop rates- Which might be better for people that are lucky, but I'm not one of those people.

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FFXI hasn't had 0.1 drop rates as a standard in the longest time, its YOU who hasn't played in a long time lol. The only drop like that is tartarus mail and some escha bodies, the rest is easily obtainable. Quite funny you mention XIV having no inventory issues, I seem to recall that being an issue over there with people needing multiple retainers.

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FFXI hasn't had 0.1 drop rates as a standard in the longest time

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So that thread that a dev resoponded to about that item people want from vagary that has a .1% drop rate, that was just a figiment of my imagination? The major HNMs had their drop rates buffed? Last I checked, low drop rates are still a thing across most of the game. Sometimes supplanted with alternative methods (delve having probably one of the better ones)

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HA, no XIV players bash XI? Dude, have you been living in a cave? Go post anything XI related on GW feed and look at all the trolls surface, same thing if you post on the XIV official forums or any XIV related video. You must be dreaming on that one.

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I didn't say there was none. There's definitely a lot less than there is here though. And in fact some XI related threads are sometimes received well.

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I seem to recall that being an issue over there with people needing multiple retainers.

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If you keep every pebble, vegtable and ore you ever come across, yes you need extra retainers. You defintiely don't need them if you're a normal person who knows when to get rid of things they aren't going to need. The point here is that the most minimum amount of inventory and effort of mananagement (macros, etc) needed in XI is MASSIVE compared to XIV. Few jobs have any need for more than one gear set (Tanks typically have a set for +vitality and +strength, summoners might have a +vitality set in addition to a +int set), so there is little need to go home and move gear in and out of inventory. your base inventory is 100 slots, plus 25 slots per equipment category (25*13=325). Retainers hold 175 items each, and crystals don't take up normal inventory space. Even if you play every job and class in the game, you're far less likely to be having inventory issues in XIV.

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I didn't say there was none. There's definitely a lot less than there is here though. And in fact some XI related threads are sometimes received well.

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Proof? I haven't seen anything XIV related on this site in a while and I frequent it, unlike you. You only post during free periods.

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So that thread that a dev resoponded to about that item people want from vagary that has a .1% drop rate, that was just a figiment of my imagination? The major HNMs had their drop rates buffed? Last I checked, low drop rates are still a thing across most of the game. Sometimes supplanted with alternative methods (delve having probably one of the better ones)

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I already said Tartarus Platemail, its one of like 5 items in the game with a very low drop rate. None of those items are so game breaking that you absolutely need them, they are more like trophies or slight upgrades to current easily obtainable gear. The major HNMs? wat.. If you mean Tiamat, herald gaiters was placed in a BCNM that is easy to get, can even drop two from one fight. Low drop rates are NOT a thing across the game, you need to go recheck whatever place you check for information.

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Proof? I haven't seen anything XIV related on this site in a while and I frequent it, unlike you. You only post during free periods.

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I'm only allowed to post during this time. I'd very likely be posting all the time if I could. As soon as the free period ends I can't log in. That also doesn't mean that I haven't been subscribed for most of the game's history prior to this year. Apparently that doesn't count for anything?

Also, you're naive to assume that not posting is the same thing as not frequenting. I at least glance at these forums nearly every single day, even when I can't post. So no, it's not "unlike me."

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I already said Tartarus Platemail, its one of like 5 items in the game with a very low drop rate.

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. There are only "like 5" items in the game with a very low drop rate? Have you ever done voidwatch? fought an HNM? Done any BCNMs? Mined or logged anything? Opened any chests in escha? What game are you playing? It's certainly not the same one I spent the better part of 10 years playing.

Certainly not because you would have noticed the game has changed within the last few years, or maybe not since you have XIV blinders on. Hardly any VW items are useful these days, the ones that are you can buy the cells right off the AH. HNM aren't done anymore aside from KB... BCNMs today aren't the same as back then. What game are you even talking about at this point?

lol now you edit your post and add more silly examples, chests from escha? haha Mining and logging? LOL

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Certainly not because you would have noticed the game has changed within the last few years, or maybe not since you have XIV blinders on.

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Oh, so you're name calling now. That's the foundation of a solid argument...

Yes, I've noticed the game has changed. However, most of the low drop rate items are still low drop rate items. No, I don't have blinders on, unlike some people posting in this thread. I haven't demonstrated any blindness to anything here. I've said repeatedly, many times I love XI. I still do. So why are you branding me an XIV worhispper with blinders on?

I have limited funds. I can't afford to subscribe to both. XIV is cheaper because I have a legacy account. That's pretty much the whole of it. It's part of what brought me to this thread in the first place.

Putting aside our viewpoints on the drop rates, what point are you even making? None of that gear is necessary to play and do the content at all. You could complete like 75% of the content in this game simply using a standard 119 set gotten in a few hours. Compare that to FFXIV where you can't even step foot into some content w/o a certain ilevel.

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Putting aside our viewpoints on the drop rates, what point are you even making? None of that gear is necessary to play and do the content at all. You could complete like 75% of the content in this game simply using a standard 119 set gotten in a few hours. Compare that to FFXIV where you can't even step foot into some content w/o a certain ilevel.

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Well, I knid of wonder what point you're trying to make as well... The point I made was that there are pros and cons to both vertical and horizontal progression. Everyone here touts XI's horizontal progression, but it's not without its flaws. Said people also tend to bash XIV saying it's a treadmill and you cant get attached to your gear. But it also has benefits, like easier inventory management and less set-up required before you can actually play. typically in XI when I join a group for whatever content, they'll tell me they want X job. I go to my mog house, and like 10 to 15 minutes later my gear is moved over and I'm ready. And I'm one of the faster people. A lot of people need multiple mules to manage their gear and it can take them like 20 mins or more to get ready for content. In XIV I press one button and I'm ready. And I can press that button anywhere. The cost is that gear tends to be less interesting as there's less diversity of stats. Which is a fair complaint, but it doesn't bother me that much.

The ilvl restrictions on XIV content are easy to meet. You don't need weekly gated content to meet them. You can complete them using a standard tomestone set of gear gotten in a few hours. Hell, you can buy gear off NPCs to enter the "Expert" dungeons.

In preformed groups, many of those requirements can be removed, as well. The limits are there to help ensure a less-than-horrendous experience using the Duty Finder, so that people don't ruin your day by queueing up naked and dancing around like an idiot. In XI, those limits aren't really needed because there is no matching system. Again, there's pros and cons. I'm not wearing blinders. XI does some things better and XIV does other things better. What people like and don't like is subjective.

The only thing that would get me back to play this game would be to start a classic progression server like EQ and EQ2 have.

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Originally Posted by Herpaderp

The only thing that would get me back to play this game would be to start a classic progression server like EQ and EQ2 have.

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The one thing that would be least likely to get me back, personally,but I won't fight it as long as I don't have to play on it, even though it has great potential to divide and damage the playerbase.

I accept that games (Not even just MMOs) evolve and change over time, and I also accept that even if you bring old ways back, they're not the same as when you did them the first time, so other than to put on my rose colored glasses, I can't think of a reason to play on such a server.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The one thing that would be least likely to get me back, personally,but I won't fight it as long as I don't have to play on it, even though it has great potential to divide and damage the playerbase.

I accept that games (Not even just MMOs) evolve and change over time, and I also accept that even if you bring old ways back, they're not the same as when you did them the first time, so other than to put on my rose colored glasses, I can't think of a reason to play on such a server.

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Pretty sure the people who would play on a classic server have no interest in the current game, especially one that is about to end updates.

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Originally Posted by Herpaderp

Pretty sure the people who would play on a classic server have no interest in the current game, especially one that is about to end updates.

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The progression server game wouldn't have updates either. So it would eventually end up just as stale as the current game getting no updates, making your point moot. People might come back for a few months or a year and then quit again because there's no new content updates. Because of that, I don't really see the benefit.

My reasons for not subbing right now are almost entirely money related.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The progression server game wouldn't have updates either. So it would eventually end up just as stale as the current game getting no updates, making your point moot. People might come back for a few months or a year and then quit again because there's no new content updates. Because of that, I don't really see the benefit.

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Preferably, they would start the game at 50 cap pre-zilart, raise cap to 75, release zilart, release cop, etc.

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Originally Posted by Herpaderp

Preferably, they would start the game at 50 cap pre-zilart, raise cap to 75, release zilart, release cop, etc.

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Unlocking content as you go doesn't make that content suddenly new.

There's nothing wrong with it, it's just not going to be as wonderful as you envision it will be. I just don't see many old players coming back to re-beat everything they already beat before.

Makes me shake my head every time. People overglorify the 75 days too much, theres still plenty of grinding if thats what you want. The only thing missing is the community (which admittedly I do miss having a lot of people) and waiting a month in a line for gear like homam and HNM drops...