Getting RoE points would be much more productive in a group, but exping for job points wouldn't, to boot.
Job points = another form of merit points?
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03-07-2014, 10:01 PMSelindrile
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03-07-2014, 10:42 PMCamiiePeople have always fought over limited resources and camps. Six-man parties will do the same thing to each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calatilla
Then what's the point of limiting where people can earn Job Points? If people are just going to do what they want anyway then let them do what they want. Anything else is just insane.Quote:
Each with their own set of npc`s. Everyone in Wildskeeper Reive with their own personal trust party? These activities would be much more productive if people teamed up together but most choose to just stick with trust and I can't see it changing for job points.
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03-07-2014, 11:24 PMMefukiYou say that like it would be a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feary
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03-08-2014, 01:07 AMZiyyigo-TipyigoFor a lot of content numbers trump everything. For me and a friend recently, it was more realistic to disband our party and form two Trust parties to try to get through some annoying Colonization Reives than to try to duo it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calatilla
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03-08-2014, 01:55 AMMirage
They could just allow abyssea to give you job points, but at 1/4th the rate of normal abyssea exp.
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03-08-2014, 02:26 AMMDenhamExcept very rarely are people even leveling on things where status removal is an issue. But that's beside the point: I play WHM to do that stuff when it matters, not when I'm leveling (where it doesn't, because leveling should not be the majority of what you're doing).Quote:
Originally Posted by Feary
And as far as worm parties in particular: no, I'm the guy who's like "oh, Mikey's up, time to get rid of him so that he's not getting in the way" and proceeds to engage, CFH, and destroy Mikey in relatively short order, without help from everyone else usually. If I notice someone needs healing, and they're not mindlessly running around like a bozo being impossible to find, I'll heal them... but anymore, worms in Aby don't function like an actual alliance, they function like a pair of keyers supporting a mix of sixteen soloers and AFK idiots. It used to be different. (Not a lot different, but having one or two roaming healers and not splitting everyone up one person to a worm did make a small difference.) -
03-08-2014, 04:45 AMFaeQueenCory0_0Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaraixx
I swear... it's one step forward... and four steps back...
"Run needs to be realized as a Tank equal to PLD! Quick, give it's RF2 -DT... BUT ONLY AT 2/3 THE AMOUNT PLDs GET! AND make it cost them their auto-refresh too!"
....
And here I was looking at this thread again cause I was wondering the rate of these meritsV2... 1/kill? 1/10thexp? Insanetrollnumber?
But now... I learn... "trollololol it's EXACTLY like Merits... but you can't get them in Abyssea!! Sure was great how making them KIs Merit-based revived meritburn pts... Better kill them!"
I swear... I honestly can't comprehend this... people blew up everything over how RoE doesn't work in Abyssea... so now they kinda do. (I've stopped needing/doing the timed ones... and rarely go into Abyssea anymore... except for merits... so I have no real clue, but I remember how the xp RoE worked in Abyssea recently.)
Why would you after the response of "why you gotta gimp it like that" go back and do the exact same thing again?
I mean... it was a matter of 3 days before the UPDATE ANNOUNCEMENT that we learned of this... I don't think anyone would have complained about this being delayed so that the abyssea bugs could be worked out... namely because there was no word on this before a few days ago.
EDIT:
Ok... so... I honestly don't comprehend why you peoples be fighting over the inclusion of Abyssea areas... It should be for one simple reason: FREEDOM OF CHOICE
Also known as: Player Agency.
It's 100% your choice to burn a job from 30-99 in abyssea.
I don't do that. Even now where I have multiple jobs at 99 and geared.... I still refuse to set foot in abyssea before 75... and now I can't even argue that I do so to maintain my skills, what with so much overlap between jobs...
There's a whole mess of goldstanding about "oh yeah, back to the 6man pt days of 2005!"... but it's not gonna do that. And you know it won't.
Because Trust exists.
JPs.... >_> Job Points... not Japanese people... Is going to be a solo thing... And that's gonna SUCK.
I can't tell you how many times I've been leveling a job somewhere and someone shows up (or I'm the person who shows up) and there's someone doing the same page... and I say <<Team up?>>
And if I get a response at all.... it's usually <<no>>
This is what Trust has done for leveling... at least for 50-75, from my experience. (All my jobs are either 50, 99 or in the process of being 99'd)
Making JPs not accumulate in Abyssea will just see a rise in soloselfishness... because that's just humans.
Abyssea, currently, promotes full alliances for xp/merit burns because that's the most advantageous form for xp.
Ironically due to the demand in abyburn pts for multiple lights to be capped makes it so that humans will work together....
If Abyssea didn't have that limit, and you could pull out Trusts... do you honestly believe that there would be alliances?
No.
Adoulin has taught me that.
Current 50-75 has taught me that.
Humans will solo with Trusts over duoing with each other... because that's more advantageous. (2ppl pt vs 4ppl pt)
Maybe making Trusts useable with other humans... maybe that will bring back this mythical 6ppl pt nostalgia goggled form of xp... (I remember Valkrum... it was no different than GoV burn or Abyssea burn)
But in all honesty.... it won't.
What I foresee happening... is 18man alliances killing birds/mandies/raptors/whatever wherever for these new merits...
Because I know human nature.
And that is what humans will do. -
03-08-2014, 05:05 AMOlor
Eh. I actually don't dislike the idea of restricting from Abyssea. It will spread out parties a bit - though it's not a bad thing to have people in Abyssea since it can be a bit harder to level jobs through that final stretch from 70-99 these days than it used to be ... but really it's not the end of the world.
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03-08-2014, 05:16 AMFearyyes i do. there was a good balance of content. there were also better players and more than double the population. People progressed at better pace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mefuki
of course there were many needs for improvements. there were some content idea that needed to go like 24 hours respawn times. those issues have been fixed.
leveling past 99 is the only thing that is changed and it didnt exist before this update. this is same game with a whole lot of stuff to do that favors different type of content. the "your choice" content factor has not been removed.
again, its a game. you always have a choice. -
03-08-2014, 05:30 AMRavenmoreSadly that is what the dev have been hearing since aby came out is "Bring back 6 man grind parties" so can you really blame them for giving people what they want. It's utter BS but when the morons are load enough this is what you get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
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03-08-2014, 05:32 AMCamate
Greetings!
We’re happy to see many of you are looking forward to this new system. :)
As some have already mentioned, it will not be possible to earn capacity points in Abyssea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feary
In the March version update it will not be possible to earn capacity points from Records of Eminence; however, we will be looking into addressing this in the future.
Please also keep in mind that the screenshot that was released for this content is still in development, and it’s possible that changes are made. According to the latest information we’ve received, it will be possible to upgrade each category up to 10 times initially for the March version update, not 30 as shown in the screenshot. Moving forward we will be increasing the cap on each category as well adding new categories.
As capacity points can only be earned while on a job that is level 99 and through defeating monsters that are level 96 and above, capacity points cannot be earned while level synced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo
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03-08-2014, 05:36 AMFearyyes, leveling in abyssea on worm are a different function than an actual alliance. however. your job role is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDenham
your priority is to save players and enhance them with haste and in this case removing rasp. people are doing well and topped off and you want to engage. sure why not. once in a while wont hurt anyone.
just dont sit there and tell me having a different leveling method that requires attention and use of job skill is a bad thing. -
03-08-2014, 05:52 AMFearyQuote:
Originally Posted by Ravenmore
i can say the same about 95% percent of content. there are many different types and in some cases,useless content based on half thought out idea posted by casual players.
For example Delve. 70k plasm per win with unlimited amount of times you can enter created and magnified the huge player skill gap. where anyone who was remotely decent earned wins and won a regular basis. vs those who werent and never got any of the content done. when the players winning finished, they moved on and no longer could/would carry and show those newer player how its done. which lead to the many posts in this forum.
its now scaled, yet the same issues that those players have still apply. if you couldnt win it in alliance you still cant win. in fact the to "easing" content doesnt do any thing for casual who dont put in the time to gear appropriately. they complain and whine about its difficult and time and time again the only player benefiting are the players who already got off their laziness and put time in their job. basically you all complained about the difficulty of delve for months and they ease the content which lead you to find out you still still dont make the cut. (like most alliance leader were saying). Ironically, that update only benefited decent players who no longder to wait on players to form an alliance or have subpar players who dont "get it" try to join and mess stuff up.
tldr learn the play the game, enjoy it for what it is and stop trying to take hte easy way out through adjustments. -
03-08-2014, 06:01 AMFearyQuote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Excellent, thank you for clearing this up Camate. i look forward to the change of pace. -
03-08-2014, 07:08 AMCamiieCan you tell us what the reasoning is for this? I mean, I and others can speculate but it'd be nice to know where the devs are actually coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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03-08-2014, 07:22 AMOlorI am assuming that it has to do with the level restriction of mobs. Are any mobs in abyssea over level 95?Quote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
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03-08-2014, 07:24 AMCamiieI meant why the whole idea of not letting any and all forms of XP count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olor
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03-08-2014, 07:34 AMleorezprobably because they knew it would just be another thing everyone plowed through it all in a day because abysea XP is broken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
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03-08-2014, 07:35 AMOlorAh, sorry. I'm assuming it's because they want to encourage a certain form of play. Would love to hear the rationale straight from the Behemoth's mouth, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
I personally think it is smart of them to restrict it, as it will create a specific kind of party outside of the ones we see currently... -
03-08-2014, 08:30 AMFearyLogically, not matter how convenient all other forms of XP are, there must be progression. Leveling on level 80 worms or any content similar to that shouldn't be continued for content created for progression above 99.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
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03-08-2014, 08:41 AMdetlefThis is fair, but then the burden lies with the developer to provide suitable camps that encourage and support the play style and progression they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feary
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03-08-2014, 10:08 AMLyandraI was going to post my take on the Abyssea exclusion subjectivity, but Camate did confirm the sad news. Even if there was a penalty in the amount of Capacitance™ earned in Abyssea, it would have been nice to get at least some form of credit while farming mobs or killing NMs there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaraixx
I like this limitation, given how Abyssea zones were designed around gradually increasing level caps, probably only "Heroes" zones would have counted towards earning points at best, if it were allowed of course. And it knocks some regular areas out, so at least people won't be crowding Zeruhn Mines or The Boyahda Tree like they have been in the past. :) (Experience points party behind the Moon Gate? Count me in!) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Camate
As I mentioned above, I figured "award EXP" from RoE, GoV, FoV and such wouldn't (and shouldn't) apply towards capacity points, since the bonus EXP itself isn't actually earned from killing monsters. If they do address it, then hopefully only the Eminence trials from the Seekers zones will count, since they're completed by specifically killing capacity-qualifying monsters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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03-08-2014, 11:11 AMCamiieI wonder how many viable camps there actually are in Adoulin areas? I know I haven't hit every single nook and cranny, but as is it doesn't really look that promising. I know there are level 96+ monsters shoehorned into some of the older areas, but most of those I've seen don't seem that great. Is there an equivalent to Mamool Ja Staging point or Colibri camp other than maybe the area with frogs and pugs in Marjami Ravine? Where's the obligatory crab area? (Not that anyone would actually tell where their super double top secret XP camps are)Quote:
Originally Posted by detlef
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03-08-2014, 12:32 PMMDenhamYou're the one telling me that having a different leveling method is a bad thing, when soloing on WHM requires paying a lot more attention to things and being on top of most of the skills you'd need in an event than being in EXP parties has since people stopped leveling in Onzozo on Toramas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feary
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03-08-2014, 05:27 PMXantaviaI suspect it has something to do with the way experience is earned in abyssea. I think they've mentioned in the past that the way the battle system is set up in those is different than the rest of the game. Likely the same reason mob/family kills for RoE don't register while in abyssea either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
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03-08-2014, 07:03 PMPeepiopi
In my opinion, anything to encourage people to leave those horribly mind numbing worm parties is huge improvement. With that said, I'm sure that it just means hordes of 99s are going to start doing book burns on 95+ mobs instead of aby worms. Or maybe reives if capacity points work there. That'll leave just lowbies doing the aby parties, which will slow down the exp considerably without 99s one shotting everything. So that probably means people will start doing bostineaux Ouiblette book burns again, if it turns out to be faster. Not that it's any more fun than the stinking worm parties >.>
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03-08-2014, 08:37 PMMirage
That's why I earlier suggested for it to be doable in abyssea, but reduce the amount of job points you get compared to how much exp they give, perhaps to something like 1/4th. This way, people can join to cap merits, then transition to gaining job points before leaving the party, and boost lower level characters in the process.
Of course, it would also have to be on lv96 or higher enemies, so worms will be out of the question as they cap at 92 or something. Perhaps sand sweepers or bluffaloes would be high enough level.
If this isn't done, they need to introduce more easily obtainable gear for the stretch between lv50 and lv99. Currently, there is no gear obtainable from RoE for that level range, and you can't realistically expect newbies to fight in abyssea with lv50 weapons. The auction house is mostly empty for that level range as well, and even if there are some weapons and armor available, that might not even be something that's suitable for your job.
RoE needs at the very least lv 60, 70, 80 and 90 weapons for all the jobs, as well as some armor for lv60-lv70 that people can use in their maat fight, and until they reach 78 and can wear the abyssea cruor stuff. That'll *probably* be fine to wear until they can use eminent armor. With a level 90 weapon, they can also kill the abyssea enemies reasonably fast, even if there isn't a lot of lv99s around.
Also, they need access to a few of the atmas, like we were given in teh abyssea extravaganza a while ago. I'm proposing a miniquest that can let you acquire 4 atmas from a choice of the 15 most common ones. The quest could use some items gained by records of eminence, perhaps?
Make some flavor text like "so many adventurers have used these atmas that we're starting to feel their prescense in the very air that surrounds us. If I only had SuperduperItem (which you get with sparks), I could probably capture and condense it in order to infuse you with it.
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OR! Instead of adding more weapons and armor to Eminence, you can lower the CP requirements for the various ranks, and add some weapons to that. Whatever weapons that are available at rank 7+ is mostly unrealistic for lv70+ guys to get a hold of because rank 7 costs twice as much CP as they have at that point.
In fact, I think all the CP rank tiers should be looked into. As there are 10 ranks, and 99 levels, it seems to me like it would be perfect to have weapons and armor for each 10 levels available for each rank. Rank 7 should offer lv70+ gear, rank 8 80+ gear, and of course rank 9 90+ gear. Between the three nations, weapons and armor for *every* job should be available, not "almost every job", but actually every job.
As you can see from this list: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Wi...t_Points_Items (nation chosen entirely on random, no bias towards my first nation whatsoever, no sir!)
it progresses like I suggest from rank 1 to 5, but after that it starts to slow down. Furthermore, the number of different weapons goes down as well. Rework rank 6-10 items so that all currently lv75 items end up at rank 7, and add a few more weapon types. After that, cut CP cost for all ranks by 25-50%. There's the leveling gear newbies need. Just remember to teach the newbies to always put on signet. Mention it in a RoE quest or something, under the tutorial category. -
03-09-2014, 02:59 AMMefukiWhat exactly is less "mind numbing" about killing EXP mobs in Adoulin than killing EXP mobs in Abyssea?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peepiopi
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03-09-2014, 04:00 AMAldersyde
The system honestly sounds absolutely horrible for people who want JP for less popular jobs. Remember during ToAU, when you were a drg, bst, pup, pld, blm, or sch you could at least console yourself with the thought you could cap merits by whoring out your rdm or brd?
That won't happen this time around. If you love your job, have fun waiting hours for an invite or trying to build parties when everyone you ask "What jobs do have so far?" and when you answer "lesspopularjob" get the reply of "lol" or complete silence thereafter. And woe to all those party leaders who don't choose the super-perfect maximally optimal ginormous JP camp, woe!
I think people have forgotten how much building merit parties actually sucked. Combine the suckage of building six-man parties with the suckage of a system where you can't even transfer points between jobs and you have system of super suckage.
What were they thinking? -
03-09-2014, 04:09 AMCamiieAs usual they ignore past history and human nature when implementing content. Just when you think they'd learned their lesson by implementing point systems and the like, they backslide hard for no apparent reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldersyde
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03-09-2014, 04:18 AMRifaran
this is a terrible idea for it to not be able to get job points in aby, now it will mean even less people with lv 99 jobs on certain jobs. so now instead of someone who could have lvled up a dd,healer,tank or support or such job, they won't because they won't be able to get exp parties in aby, because no one will want to do them because you don't get job points there. as usual Square Enix takes 1 step forward and 5000 steps backwards..........
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03-09-2014, 04:55 AMPeepiopiI don't know.. It's not like aby parties are the only way to get experience these days. Sure they're the fastest and the easiest (you can literally semi-afk to 99 while other people do the work). But Trusts + FoV + SoE is really good exp for soloing in all sorts of different locations, and there are still GoV book burns and level sync for folks that want the fast exp. So assuming this kills Aby worm parties (which it might, or might not.. but it will certainly slow them down) then there are still plenty of options for people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifaran
Also, I'm not really seeing how the fact that you can't get job points from Aby burns will have any influence on peoples' job selections.
Hey, some people probably have a blast in aby worm parties, but for me it's near vomit inducing. In Adoulin areas, not only do you get a bunch of bonuses from Ionis for skillups and stuff, there are also reives, and wildskeeper reives updates in the zones. So there are more dynamic and fun things to do there, rather than running around and killing worms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mefuki
I doubt thats where all the 99s are going to run to for farming Job points, since I predict that lvl 95+ GoV camps are going to be more of a faster option for exp burners (Kuftal, Boyahda, Bostaneau Oiblette, etc..). But in my opinion, just about anything in the game is more fun than worm parties. -
03-09-2014, 04:58 AMRavenmore
I really hope every one of the people that have been begging to have this brought back are stuck on their mage jobs cause they can't get invites on their DDs other then mnk that would be pure justice. The brds and healers are not going to put up with less then perfect parties, since they can drop and get another invite in 5 mins or less. Even worse it could turn out to be trust NPC hell every where with the jobs that didn't get invited to the dance. In the true SE spirit they took a wet dream and some how messed it up so hard.
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03-09-2014, 05:19 AMsaevel
Currently there aren't nearly enough camps for a traditional system. None of the newer zones were designed around 6-man parties so they don't have centrally located fast repops and instead are spread out with sparse mobs sprinkled around. This will make everyone concentrate in the handful of viable area's and it'll be bird merit camp all over again.
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03-09-2014, 05:29 AMAldersydeThe people who are championing this as some kind six-man party resurgence don't seem to realize is that once the brds and whms are capped on JP, they aren't going to continue to party for others simply out of the goodness of their hearts. After the initial rush to cap JP, its actually going to be harder to build parties with fewer and fewer healers and brds in the pool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenmore
The lack of some kind of JP transfer is just complete insanity.
I totally agree you, with the mindset that the playerbase has with "optimal setup or gtfo" Adoulin areas are going to be a complete mess with parties and trust soloers competing with each other over mobs. I do hope everyone trumpeting the "right on, can't get the points in Abyssea-high five!" enjoys the "healthy competition" that is going to exist for trash mobs for next past two months or so. -
03-09-2014, 06:03 AMKrashport
My question is; Can we work/accumulate them both at the same time or do we have to switch between Merit points and Job points?
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03-09-2014, 09:44 PMDragoy€°(((><
Indeed, it seems a bit unfortunate to me that they will only come off of monsters at level 96 or higher.
I generally do older content still, Salvage and the likes, and would have not minded if I could have gained a tiny bit towards those points from there.
If only players could enjoy this content no matter what their play-style is like...
Oh. Well crud!Quote:
Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui
I guess I'm just not that kind of a player. True enough, I can probably pick one of the few monsters over that level in the original areas, and have at it. Will I want to go defeat monsters like that with the only purpose being job points, or will I rather use that time gallivanting in Salvage, Dynamis, Campaign, or somewhere else? Probably.
Yes, I only mentioned areas that existed before Adōulin, since I still don't have that expansion. So yeah, I guess I'm not part of the community that is being talked about in the quote (not that I had the opportunity to participate in the survey that was mentioned either, or at least I don't think the one 'we' got had that kind of a question in it, but that is what it is).
What I'm trying to say, I maybe guess, is that, while I don't like the most popular levelUP methods (big Abyssea/Grounds of Valor groups), I do think it seems a bit too restricted. I never really complained though. It was easy enough for me to simply avoid such 'parties' and level up how I chose to level up.
I do like to be able to multi-task. It does seem rather difficult to come up with another reason to go play with, say, the skeletons in the Labyrinth of Onzozo.
Nevertheless, I do think it's cool that they finally decided to do something like this. I have been sort of waiting for them to go fer it, as it seemed something was missing from the character development. It's not that I feel completely excluded, either.
It does feel like something that I should be able to have more options to go with. For. Over.
Oh well. I guess I can just go fishing. After seeing the huge arrows on the screen, however, I've been a bit scared of it, while I was positively giddy before about them finally revamping the system. Now, scared...
Meh, just some thoughts~ -
03-09-2014, 10:16 PMFeary
do you play on ps2?
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03-09-2014, 11:29 PMAyinDygra
They should implement RoE objectives that can be fulfilled by doing each job's job, to get job points, regardless of what content a person is doing.
I know I'll most likely just end up solo'ing these things, while fighting over the few spawns of monsters in Ulbuka areas that are convenient to get to. I'll probably get fed up with the competition and go back to my mog house, then log out most nights, until the rush for everyone's main job's job points is over. Doesn't sound like a very fun future for me, but it is what it is. -
03-09-2014, 11:57 PMDragoy
Feary,
Assuming you're asking me, or everyone in general, I do not. They actually never released FFXI for the PS2 around here, and even if they did, I'm not sure if the on-line services are available (I don't remember any friends even who would have their PS2 connected to the internet).
I had to check if my slim and silver PS2 even has a port for its NIC, as I never paid any attention to the thought of having it connected to anything. Didn't go as far as to plug anything into it, however. :E
Had I the option, I would at most use the PS2 for 'dual-boxing'. I can not imagine myself full-timing it.
Furthermore, if from that you're going for 'why not get access to Adōulin then', well, I just don't see anything attractive enough for me around there. I may consider getting it when/if the story is more finished, or if they reduce the monthly fee (or/when there is a cheap-o release of it).
Maybe.