73 Beitetsu

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Originally Posted by Camiie

Rather than asking for RME to be made more obtainable, it would be better for the game as a whole for SE to continue to produce viable alternatives. That way you and I don't have to worry about how difficult they are to make, because we won't NEED to make one.

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You mean like Eminent weapons? Or Delve weapons? Or Wildkeeper Reive weapons? There are plenty of RME alternatives, but SE can't do anything about a player who thinks he needs and intrinsically deserves these weapons.

The whole point of things like RME weapons is that it gives more serious players something to do and strive for. The point of thing like sparks gear is that it gives more casual players something to use without committing a huge amount of time to.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

This is not the case for some classes (Summoner, and from what I hear Puppetmaster as well). The weapons are far superior to anything else.

And why should someone be rewarded for grinding hundreds of hours solo, doing easy content? That's what player power is gauged by now? How many tedious, annoying, boring tasks you're willing to complete?

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What do you mean "now"? That's what it's always been. What do you want?

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Originally Posted by detlef

I can live with it. This niche content exists for a small, but dedicated group of players. I like that it gives you something big to work for. Mythics are only a tiny fraction of the game's content and aren't necessary to complete any event or defeat any enemy.

I know you as someone wants full access to everything immediately out of the box. What changes would you propose? Would you want it to be so easy that a player could reasonably obtain all 20 Mythic weapons?

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Looking at getting a Mythic weapon... it's not even worth trying. It's not a goal, it's an unfathomable dream. The problem with MYTHICS is that they take an exponential amount of time compared to the rest of these things, offer zero enjoyment while you do it (at least while doing Chains of Promathia, even though I was doing tons of annoying fetchquests, I got to see a nice story), and pretty much cost tons and tons of gil, unless you want to spend a year working on it.

That's simply just not happening. Even IF I did start, it is extremely unlikely that I would finish or even have the gil to finish it in a reasonable amount of time. Beyond that, I couldn't justify spending the gil on it either, as I would rather spend the gil helping and gearing my friends rather than going full selfish mode on a weapon I'm probably not even going to finish due to the ridiculous requirements. The worst part of it all is the time gated-ness of it; I can't just go hardcore and grind it out (though even if I did, it would still be absolutely ridiculous). Some of the steps I can't even do with friends without dragging them along and getting them absolutely nothing in return (if I take the items for the mythic, they get nothing). So, basically, I'm forced to play by myself, can't play with my friends, every day for months on end, to work on the strongest weapon in the game. Going further than that, none of that is even FUN to do, and yet I have to pay real money monthly to do it.

What's the point of a Mythic if only a couple people are going to bother doing it? You just want to keep it super special for those people only at this point? The weapons are cool, the lore behind them is cool, the weaponskills that come with them are cool, and most of all, some of them are EXTREMELY GOOD for their class. However, people don't go and get them. Why? Because, you're playing a game to work instead of having fun. All for a weapon.

What are my suggestions? Either reduce the requirements to get the Mythic drastically (lower the required item amounts, remove some of the other things like the assault, etc) or add a new way to obtain them. Something you can do with your friends. In an MMORPG. A goal, you can all work towards together. Something REASONABLE, something FUN to do. Something you can work on while you do OTHER THINGS. It can be a long term goal that isn't like this. The requirements are just stupid at this point in 2014.

There are actually a lot of people with Mythics now. Well, not a lot but many more than you would think. People just put in the work and finished, that's all there is to it.

Now, I agree that some of the requirements are terrible. The Beastmen King lairs should not be blocked by keys that need to be farmed, should not be tied in to Besieged, and should have much more favorable spawn conditions. It's the first step in a long quest, it shouldn't be the headache it is. Also, Assault tags should probably not be one per day anymore. Not unlimited, but 2 per day isn't that unreasonable. Einherjar should probably not require a 6-man PT in this day and age. But I'm totally okay with 30k Alex, 150k tokens, and 100k ampoules. I think this provides a suitable balance between Mythics and the other two legendary weapons in terms of effort/reward.

With all that said, as the quest currently stands, it's still doable. Completing one even to 75 is a significant accomplishment. It's definitely more work than play though, and if you're playing the game just for fun it's definitely not worth it. Other people play to accomplish things even if it's not fun the whole time, and for those people, the effort may be worth it.

I used to farm Xarc but the math showed I'd take most of the year to get all the currency for a Relec, start to finish. So I only farmed it for relecs, relec exp trial, and Hope. With that said I also only recently soloed all the nightmare zones on pup last September.. Skirmish gear helped but it wont protect you from really bad breath. Treasure hunter is not needed unless your trying to farm, pops, relecs, accessories, -1, and forgoten parts. Even in Xarcabard you can duo/micro party the stronger demons on the cliff for more currency and upgrades or pet pull them to the ramps.

Between Relec/Mythic/Emp weapons.. Relec is generally the easier and cheaper of the three if you spend the time to farm the currency. Time spent is going to dynamis daily for about 3.5 months. In the end you could have about 50% of the currency left over to finish a second Relec or you could just sell the hundreds off for gil.

Mythic on the other hand, isnt just the 10k alex, theres: Duties Tasks and Deeds quest. Before that quest you need to have climed to floor 100 in nyzule, unlocked the weapon skill, and then make it to captain rank. Only then would you need to redo every assault mission once as captain (including rescue the impereal agent). Not to forget gaining titles by destroying all the chariots once, defeat Odins Chamber, Kill all three beastmen lords in Ahturgan, then buy really expensive items using special currency from Einerjar, Salvage and Assault. Only then you can begin trading 10k alexandrite, and hopefully you were collecting them while farming gear, currency and chariots in salvage. Finally you can take it to the BC and battle a NM in a story line battle to unlock the final lv 75 stage.

So apart from getting to captain rank and redoing every assault missions again. The Devs did recently make it so you can enter and solo Salvage, Nyzule, and Assault. Those mobs are still capped around lv 80 ish. In a way farming up a Mythic might take much longer than a Relec..

As for Emps, the only restriction was access to the nm's. You had to be in a alliance of some sort to farm pop sets then the NM's that droped the items needed. Then there was figuring out a way to split the loot in the end. This would require more friends helping each other than the previous two. Also they were increassing level caps at this time, so mobs were much stronger. That's why the weapons only started getting good once you got to lv 80 and the Emp gear started to really increase damage and the functions of various job abilities. Void Watch/Walk was all intergrated with with magian trials for Abyssea expansions.

In a way the weapons paths were reflective of the current gaming environment. When levels were increased to lv95, that's where many people just threw their hands up in the air with Emp weapons. The majority of emps were left at 90 as the universal average for their function. While the hard core bought, fought, and farmed for all 1500 Hmp despite the low drop rate. Then they did it again for the lv 99 upgrade and then afterglow/aftermath. Those who already had relecs went and upgraded them to 95 and many gil farmed so they could buy the marrow to go to lv 99... Infact one could say that by design its harder/restricted to farm 5 marrow for a lv 99 relec than it was to farm 1500 hmp in that game environment. Today its the reverse, farming ADL is more like farming Emp to lv90 than farming HMP to get Emp's to lv95. Hopefully all while farming hopes, currency, etc to fill in the down time in dynamis.. Meanwhile those who had mythics went and slowly farmed those up to 99..

Now with the iLev reforging: Plu,Rif, Beitsu are at the same drop rate. However more people had relecs at lv 99 than mythic and Emp. More people had lv 99 Mythics than lv 99 Emp. More people had Lv 90 Emp's than people with lv75 Mythics and Relecs. Farming HMP is slow and if you dont get max lights for loot it'll take even longer. That is why Plutons cost more, while the only folks buying Beitsu and Riftborn Boulders were those who already had Mythic and/or Emps at lv 99. Otherwise they're so saturated on the bazars. The M/E upgrades are starting to go for 10k and 20k and still move slowly.

Therefore the only work around on Emp's since Dynamis and Mythic requirements have already been re-adjusted, is to either lower the HMP/Riftdros cost or increas the means to aquire them. Considering the link of VoidWalk/Watch to Abyssea and Walk of Ecoes. One would assume HMP or Riftdross would be added to the higher teir walks. Like FLux 15 or the one with that one dragon. It would be efficent and a quick and repeatable means of farming with out the need to form large perfect parties. While expanding single HMP to Ironclads and Chariots in WoE and Abyssea, with Riffdross on the Cature's in aby and flux 15 in WoE. The drop rate could still be the same despite having more than one path to farming them. Then you can have pouches of hmp found only in VoidWalk/Watch (howabout making it easier remember which is which).

One new troll added but a surprising amount of interesting conversation.

EDIT:
BTW I now have over 100 of each 3. Thought about selling the Plutions but I think I'm going to hang on to them just to rage about how many I get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thbkc7Q1gEY <-- ARCH Dynamis Lord Solo

I've personally soloed many of them myself, I do imagine beaucedine could be tough but is totally easy to do with 2-3 people.

When you start to think everyone on the forum is trolling you, it's time to realize, you're the troll.

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Originally Posted by Selindrile

When you start to think everyone on the forum is trolling you, it's time to realize, you're the troll.

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LOL

But for reals, OP, Relics are pisseasy to get ahold of. There's only 2 real obstacles in the way currently: ADL for the 99, and Xarcabard access.
And if you think that PUGs = impossible to win Beaucedine.... um.... nope. Especially not now.
I was all by my lonesome for about a year... and in that year I joined every zone boss shout for the base dynamis areas... got all the wins 1x each.
As for currency... just farm the CoP areas' Nightmare mobs. They're better for currency anyways.
But thanks to iLv gear... these ZBs should be even more a cakewalk than they were at the 99 cap when I did them.

Empys suffer from the last 90>100 push.... those trials are just.... lame.
1500 HMP? Sure it's "doable".... but "ain't NOBODY got time for that."
And this is especially so given how Adoulin killed VW... which is probably WHY they allowed for the Empy WSs to be unlocked.... But maybe not. Just speculating.
But the base>90 version? Nah, even at the 99 cap... was petty easy. I helped a couple LSmates get theirs... and all I really did was just serve as a pop holder.

Mythics however....
It's like I always say:
"You buy a Relic.
You spend time for an Empy.
You sell your soul for a Mythic."
But.... these are supposed to be "the ultimate weapons for your job"... even though a bunch fall short of that... They still are super weapons.
Basically: a LOT of work, for a LOT of payoff. (Especially if you're a SMN.)
Sure, there's some things that's a bit redic when it comes to Mythics... buuuuut... I'm willing to put up with them... seeing as how these are supposed to be "godmode" weapons...
That being said, I wouldn't be opposed if they made the requirements a bit easier... at least in terms of the Beastmen leaders and the numerical values of the required items. (I mean, they've already removed the assault demand... so... they are a lot easier now... if only comparatively.)
And then there's that dark cloud on the horizon with RUN and GEO's "Mythic-equivalent weapon"... if the ease at which the "relic-equivalent" set was gotten is any indication.... the comparison to the effort and time the other jobs have to put in to make their Mythics is... gonna be sickening.

And here's the great news, OP....
You don't need a REM anymore.

Thanks to iLvs.... there's a plethora of iLv119 weapons that function as equivalent to a REM.
There's the soon-to-be-six Delve MegaBoss weapons. (Logic: March update has +1 to the other two relic slots. Each +1 relic slot requires a Delve MegaBoss item which was made to drop 100% now. Ergo: March update will contain at least 2/3 nakuaals in their Delve form.... and they'll be 119, since that's the cap for a while.)
There's the Ark Angel 119 weapons.
And now there's even the capability to make the 105 skimish weapons all the way up to 119!!
And before you say "bluh bluh bluh I need those to do that bluh bluh"... Everyone agrees that the 115s from the WKRs and the 117 RoE weapons are serviceable weapons until you get a 119. And certain jobs have 0 benefit from a 119 weapon. (WHM... um... ok. Just sorta WHM.)

And seeing as how you can unlock the Mythic and Empyrean WSs... AND do that solo.... The only benefits to having a REM these days is: 1) status and 2) +30% WS damage... which with the REMs generally having a slightly lower DPS than the other 119 weapons... it all balances out.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

How about Angra Mainyu?

One has to get to Dynamis - Xarcabard before one solos anything in there.

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soloable by SAM before the 99 cap: meikyo shisui skill chaining one shots it. Also, not sure what's the stress about xarcabard access. You will need it for your last stage, but xarcabard is not the best way to get coins, its dreamlands dynamis, which only require CoP diabolos clear.

Seriously, SE has released plenty of alternatives to RME even in the latest update... Why are people still complaining. Why do some people still think they deserve RME in their delivery box?

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Originally Posted by Inafking

Relics are unobtainable because of the ridiculous restrictions of dynamis that make it impossible to get enough zone wins/currency to make them.

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There are thousands of relic weapons, according to the last vanadiel census... I'm not sure what "ridiculous requirements" you're talking about. Dynamis wins, lol? They were cokblockers at 75, but I did them NP for mules, you just need 1 DD 1 healer, and several jobs can solo them, including beaucedine.

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Mythics are unobtainable because of all of the ridiculous restrictions of assault that make it impossible to climb nyzul isle and get enough materials to make them.

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you can do all of that solo now.... well except einherjar. Yeah ok good weapons can take time to get. I know we are in the "Everything now" generation, but in RL rewards still require lots of work. and it's fun too. If you want everything now, go play FFXIV or WOW. Its more suited to players like you.


I made 4 mythics in the last 2 months, on my own (one 4-different characters obviously). The alexandrite part is the quick part actually, 10 dynamis runs iis enough to gather the money.

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Emps are unobtainable because to get through abyssea content you still need at least 3 people to properly proc/kill something.

I think I'm going to take these 73 Beitetsu and feed them to a moogle. I hope he chokes on them.

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The hell? Ninja can get 14/15 of the red procs..... Empyrean used to be the #1 popular weapon, but voidwatch requirement maade them rare at lv 95+.

Let me welcome Monchat to Inafking "troll club". I think we need to start charging to this club admission.

For the record I want to say a Blue Mage with a Buramenk'ah can 2-shot every dynamis zone boss besides shadow lord (not exaggerating).

If you can't solo a relic nowadays (and at least get 1 or 2 friends to get a dyna win), mean you just don't deserve it, it's as simple as that

And when i see your general attitude in this thread I want to thanks SE for that minimum requirement

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Originally Posted by Inafking

One new troll added

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Just leave the forums. Everyone is a troll to you here anyways, no one agrees with you, so what in the hell is the point in even being here?

serious people, I'm starting to take admission fee to join this elite 'troll club'. for the special introductory period time only, it'll be 1gil per person. Now, pay up!

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Originally Posted by Vivivivi

For the record I want to say a Blue Mage with a Buramenk'ah can 2-shot every dynamis zone boss besides shadow lord (not exaggerating).

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Well to be fair... that DOES require a Delve win....
On the other hand... SMN's been able to do that for forever now... (One time I got a max Blood Boon proc from the 99 era... 1shot the bastok ZB... I was helping a friend with his wins... and he was speechless at it lol...)
And with the advent of iLv gear... it's even easier to beat the 4 ZBs needed for making relics. (though that ahriman in Beaucedine is still "difficult")
So it's not just BLU that can solo ZBs... most jobs can now.

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Originally Posted by Hercule

If you can't solo a relic nowadays (and at least get 1 or 2 friends to get a dyna win), mean you just don't deserve it, it's as simple as that

And when i see your general attitude in this thread I want to thanks SE for that minimum requirement

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While I find your statement.... a bit rude...
I can't help but agree with the principle: if you don't want to put in the work for something, you should be content without the reward.

I don't have any relics, but it's because I don't want any atm... when I get off my butt being lazy/busy with other content, I'll probably go and make an Aegis, Apocalypse, and a Claustrum. (Because I want to be one of the 40ish people who have one! ... Claustrum is soooooo baaaaaaaaad... 99.99% vanity weapon...)

And the best part of Matsui's current design setup... which Vivivivi indirectly pointed out:
You too lazy to make a REM?
You too busy?
You just don't care for the look/feel of those weapons?
Well good news!
You don't need one anymore!
REMs: iLv119
Delve: iLv119
Skirmish: iLv119

This is the era of the DREMS: more "the best weapons" for more people.
(there's also the AA and Bowie and bro's 119 weapons too! .... but I haven't made that acronym yet... DREMSA? DAREMS? What will the Zilartian Brothers' junk be? Z? J for Jeuno? bluh! There's so many options now!)

(II know it seems like it, but I'm not really talking directly to you Fae, but more to the general public, just saying it before hand. :D)

I don't find Hercule's statement rude, more blunt. Its perfectly accurate as you pointed out. Its like that in the real world as much as it is in the gaming world. Worlds need rules, using "Its just a game" doesn't displace the fact that game or not, it needs rules, otherwise we get chaos, mostly boring unrewarding chaos. Except in the game world its much more fair than real life most times. I won't cite any examples cause you know in you brain its true, rather you chose to acknowledge or accept it is another point entirely. The reason these large challenges exist is because of the rules of that world, challenge and reward, effort to accomplishment. REM Systems are one of the few things that have a steady ratio of effort to reward, mostly Relics anyway.

Now, Empyreans and Mythics? They need adjusting bad. Empyreans were given a break now that SE is trying to shove us into Voidwatch with their stupid Synth mat grab for Relic, but 1,500 Plates is still a ludicrous goal when most server populations are under between 500~1.5k and voidwatch, even with 119 relics, makes up a small portion of the player-bases time.

I'd normally have gone on a rant about the generation of "Participation medals" being lead to believe everything in the world is achievable for them and if its not then its the thing thats wrong no them or the effort they're putting into it, or lack there-of, but I'm sure you've all thought the same thing when reading many MMO official forums.

Regardless, wanting something made easier in itself is okay if the task is truly unreasonable, but the sheer amount of relic weapons in existent show that the task is accomplishable, and even if you're like me and hate dynamis, can still be done... it'll just take half a year of on and off playing :D which isn't a long time if you consider the games 12+ year old age.

Yes, the HMP and Dross is ridiculous... even with the "revival" SE wants for VW...
And the Beastmen Leaders spawn times are.... well... they're just plain stupid. "We don't want you to stop work/school/friends/family"... Except that's a bold lie, SE... you TOTES want that with the dumb spawn times for the Aht Urghan leaders...

But these are problems that are actual problems...

Relics on the other hand....
You can buy a relic.
100% no work other than whatever you did to get gil.
Just buy all the currency, all the random items, all the whatever...
And you're gold up until you need to actually go kill a NM or whatever.

But even that is made HELLA easy now with all the iLv shenanigans.

The only barrier is getting zone wins.... and.... that takes nothing nowadays.
If you can't solo it, shout for a bit, and I'm sure you'll get SOMEONE who either needs it too or will help you with it.

And if the 95 and 99 trials for empys weren't so.... redic...
They too would have 0 problems.

Heck, even if the Beastmen Leaders has a 100% 1hr respawn time... the sheer amount of work that Mythics entail would still make them "high effort, high reward"... while being just a touch easier on people...

The REMs are easier than ever to not only make the base 75, but also bring it up to 99 and 119.
(And if I were in charge, I'd drop the HMP and dross requirements down to something like 150 and 30 or something like that... something reasonable. Relics need only 5 marrows... why do empys need SO MANY things when Mythics don't even need that much! And I'd have the leaders 100% pop EVERY 24hr EXACTLY after their death. Why not 1hr? Because with 24hrs there's at least a bit of "epicness" to the encounter... especially if you're just there randomly for something else.)

Everyone who disagrees with you is a troll, apparently.

You're complaining about how hard it is to solo 75/99 content with access to easily obtained 117 and 119 gear.
You can solo relic easily, you've been given many options that you've ignored without a valid reason for why they wouldn't work.
Mythic can be mostly solo'd. Yeah, you need a few people now and then. The biggest one is Einherjar. Ein is not difficult with ilvl gear. I've never joined a T3 Ein shout that didn't wipe the floor with all of the mobs in mere minutes.
Empy can be solo'd as well. I've done many. I've sold many.

You also do not need any of these. Most people do not have 119 RME. Pre-item level, a ton of people required Empy to join events because they were easy as hell to get and increased your power a ton. Not many get past the HMP stage, so they aren't flooded anymore because ilvl weapons will beat them.

New Trolls added. Keep 'em coming.

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Originally Posted by Inafking

New Trolls added. Keep 'em coming.

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Seriously just get the fuck outta here.

Aww, only 1 old troll, I am disappoint.

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Originally Posted by Inafking

Aww, only 1 old troll, I am disappoint.

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Inafking is right about there being only one troll, only time will tell how long it takes for him to realize that it's him.

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Originally Posted by Selindrile

Inafking is right about there being only one troll, only time will tell how long it takes for him to realize that it's him.

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What's funny is his post about there being only 1 troll was in itself a trolling post, not just his actions overall, but that very post itself just specifically sticks out.

The way I see it, its that there wasn't any real balance considered with the stone to weapon ratio. the stones are just too common.

Do you want some cheese with your whine?