PVP!

Hasn't Brenner, a form of PVP in which players reserve an arena and initiate combat at their will, been around since 2005?

A Card Game IS PVP! See my other thread. ;p (/wishes)

Thing is jobs in FFXI are created and balanced to work together, not against each other.
FFXI was never a PvP game. If you go back to Ballista or Brenner you'll easily see that some jobs simply didn't have any chance to win.
I personally wouldn't care if they revamped PvP, I'm just not interested in it :P

I'm for it now. ONLY because everyone who owns everything does nothing in the game but sit in town. Give them something to do. It's kind of sad the ultimate future seems to be sitting in town doing nothing or grinding out something else.

If you want to PvP, go play the other billion MMOs out there like WoW, Rift, and Aion.

Actually, they should add PVP. They should also make the following additions:

-- Some sort of delivery system so that items and gil can be sent between characters without them being in the same place.

-- A special zone, kind of like a house, which each player can customize to his or her specifications. You can change jobs, take delivery of items, access storage. Since this is a Final Fantasy game, I think it would be cool if you centered it around the ubiquitous moogle characters

-- A mount of some sort for travel over land. Again, since this is Final Fantasy, chocobos seem like a natural choice.

-- Airships, like in Final Fantasy 9, used for moving between major cities. For simplicity, route all this through a central transit hub, such as Jeuno.

-- Some sort of central clearing place, such as an auction house, where you can buy and sell items.

-- Instanced notorious monster fights that you can fight in exchange for treasure. In order to access these, have regular monsters drop some kind of token, and with enough of these tokens, you can buy something that will let you in to the instanced fight.

That's all I have for now. If anyone else wants to kick in some suggestions for adding things to the game that already exist, feel free to jump in.

Ok PvP does not equal WoW people. It will bring more exploration and things to do when playing the game.

I can definitely say for all us, I'd love a fast quick activity to do while standing around in Jeuno/Whitegate and PvP could be it.

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Originally Posted by Imakun

Thing is jobs in FFXI are created and balanced to work together, not against each other.
FFXI was never a PvP game.

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Pretty much this. There is simply no way to balance pvp to be fair, without destroying the balance in pve.

The best they could really do would be to remove the equipment change limitation in ballista. Beyond that, there simply isn't much they can possibly do, without completely redesigning the game.

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Originally Posted by Tyi

Ok PvP does not equal WoW people. It will bring more exploration and things to do when playing the game.

I can definitely say for all us, I'd love a fast quick activity to do while standing around in Jeuno/Whitegate and PvP could be it.

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So do synthesis. Or do quests. Or farm. Why are you waiting around in town anyway? If you're looking for a party, you can put your seek flag up and go anywhere. Just warp back when you get a /tell. Or if you're standing around listening to /shouts to see if anything exciting will come up, find some out of game activity to while away the time. The only way PVP would occupy your time in this scenario would be for open brawling on the streets of Jeuno.

Or if you *must* indulge in your desire to gank other players, do Brenner.

Again, also, PVP does not mean straight up fighting. Sports, mini-games, races & gambling etc...

Since it's already in the game as fighting that's likely all they'll expand on, so have at it.

As of current FFXI's job system, a working PvP is out of question. Jobs are way too unbalanced, PvP would be <insert best DD here> vs. <same job> leaving all other jobs out of it.

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Originally Posted by GoBs

When are we going to Make PVP Better! It Sucks atm :(
Linkshell Vs Linkshell would be great! 18 vs 18 Do Hold Land's get point's for how long you have it. What do you guys think?

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The problem with PvP in FFXI is not poor implementation, but a widespread lack of interest. You could do 18 v 18 in Brenner's LS Liga if you could only find 36 players on the same server with compatible playtimes.

Good luck with finding 36 players on the same server with compatible playtimes, though. You're gonna need it!

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Originally Posted by Tezz

Again, also, PVP does not mean straight up fighting. Sports, mini-games, races & gambling etc...

Since it's already in the game as fighting that's likely all they'll expand on, so have at it.

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Chocobo Racing, Pankration, and Game Tables all exist already for competition between players. Not to mention that players have made competitive events on their own, like lv.1 foot races from a starting nation to jeuno in the past.

Long time ago when I started this game i was busy doing PvE stuff in FF , the game is really fun with friends but sometimes the PvE stuff wont fill the urge of fighting sometimes , people want to test their abilities against other players . My major fun was when i used to play Ballista it was great fun but the requirement for the Ballista was somehow hard to meet , time , place , people and in the end the reward system ( basically there isn't ).

I used to play Ballista because its just plain fun though i agree the old days where players with certain jobs can own your other jobs but still the idea was good but SE did not continue the improve the PvP , they can do better.

like for example instead of making the country like Sandoria , Bastok taking control of some of the areas ( its funny they control it without fighting ???? how lol) make PvP open on those areas where players trying to take control of outpost. when they do that the players can get buff like exp buff or weapon buff or even job buff ! like adding more abilities that are only accessible from Ballista or PvP ( like Abyssea now , with the Atma system ). they done it PvE so why not PvP ?

for the balance now level 90 , jobs now have the freedom to built their jobs with any sub job they want , there is more free style now than ever, and if you add something like "Atma" system from Abyssea into ballista with loads of HP people will enjoy the PvP because now even mages can do some serious melee damage in Abyssea.

for the Job balance like job vs job well they can give items that can be used AND be "reused" if there is an space issue . in PvP , like WAR can get Dispelga ( just example i dont want WAR to get Dispelga ! ) .Or as job Abilities that can be used inside and outside PvP ! I think all of this is possible but if they really want to do it they will .

some rewards will be so nice like customs ?! or boots for movement speed , or even use a point system in the game from Signet . like PvP signet will give you capped haste ?!?! or double attack boost ? ( i think i am asking too much lol )

but this what i think if I am going to make a PvP game because now i playing Warhammer ONline which is only a PvP game guild vs guild and all kind of PvP is there but sometimes it nice to have both PvE and PvP in the game , it will give the game a unique taste.

thats all i want to say , hope if anyone can add some ideas it will be great ~

To the OP: There actually is an option for LS vs. LS Brenner. I have yet to see it used. In addition, teams in either Ballista or Brenner can actually go up to 72.

I think Brenner and Ballista could use a few adjustments. First off, please, for the love of Altana, allow us to remove Postens from Brenner. Those things wreck small matches. In addition, more people would be willing to host Diorama Abdhaljs-Ghelsba if it cost gil instead of Ballista Points. With the drought in official matches, those things are hard to come by now.

One thing I find most PvPers tend to focus on too much is the 1v1 aspect. FFXI is a team based game, and its PvP is too. Actual team matches give AoE using jobs like BRD, BLM, and SMN a chance to shine.

Also, if Ballista is the San d'Orian version of Conflict, and Brenner is the Bastokan version, what's the Windurstian version? Will we ever see it added?

Problem with XI and PvP is latency which doesn't make it fair at all for EU players, less fair for NA players and easy win for JP. Servers are in Japan. Average latency with a good DSL line from EU to SE servers is 270ms (and that's with a good DSL/Cable Line, which would gives you about 10-15ms locally). Now an average line with 50ms of latency raise that up to 300ms+.

Meanwhile, average JP player will have 50ms maximum, if not less. Knowing that a Stun is 500ms base cast time (and can be even lower now), that is simply unfair, if two mages start casting a spell at the same time, JP will always have the advantage.

Remember playing Quake when you had dial-up and your opponent had DSL? Well it's the same case here. Latency gap is as wide as the gap between DSL and dial-up.

Challenging PvP based solely on "frags" and not on "objectives" like Ballista is just out of question.

For people complaining about jobs balance, things can be adjusted for PvP only, just like it is at the moment, Mage damage are reduced, AoE spells aren't AoE etc.

i wouldn't mind PVP myself in FFXI..might give abit of spice back to the game. a new PVP system isn't a half bad idea...

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Originally Posted by Antipika

Problem with XI and PvP is latency which doesn't make it fair at all for EU players, less fair for NA players and easy win for JP. Servers are in Japan. Average latency with a good DSL line from EU to SE servers is 270ms (and that's with a good DSL/Cable Line, which would gives you about 10-15ms locally). Now an average line with 50ms of latency raise that up to 300ms+.

Meanwhile, average JP player will have 50ms maximum, if not less. Knowing that a Stun is 500ms base cast time (and can be even lower now), that is simply unfair, if two mages start casting a spell at the same time, JP will always have the advantage.

Remember playing Quake when you had dial-up and your opponent had DSL? Well it's the same case here. Latency gap is as wide as the gap between DSL and dial-up.

Challenging PvP based solely on "frags" and not on "objectives" like Ballista is just out of question.

For people complaining about jobs balance, things can be adjusted for PvP only, just like it is at the moment, Mage damage are reduced, AoE spells aren't AoE etc.

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latency isn't really that important in ffxi. Being off by .2-.3 seconds isn't really going to matter in ffxi. Obviously for some games a 300ms latency is unplayable, but ffxi is not one of those games. Absolutely nothing ever happens in <.3 seconds.

I personally think they should make a server w/ only the ballista zones.

You would be able to Carbon copy your character w/ current gear/items (but no AH, gil etc since this is just a ballista zone) where people from all servers who want to play can play.

Basically take your char, put him in a lobby, get in a match.

While on individual servers, there is not a great demand for ballista, between all the servers, there will be guaranteed matches at pretty much all times between the JP and NA players.

this game first off does not lend itself to PvP in combat style, secondly it doesnt fit in with the story line

and finally PvP is horrible in games that do have it, WoW made me want to pull my hair out, Everquest had to make buffer zones

PvP leads to douchebaggery

And this is why it's OPTIONAL.

Just because you don't enjoy Ballista doesn't mean they can't update it for those of us who do. How often are you even in the ballista zones? Chances are that if you're not directly involved, you won't even see a match, so it doesn't really affect you in any way shape or form.

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Originally Posted by Sureal

and finally PvP is horrible in games that do have it, WoW made me want to pull my hair out, Everquest had to make buffer zones

PvP leads to douchebaggery

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This depends on what you're looking for in a game. If you just want to play by yourself and not have to worry about anyone, then obviously open pvp wouldn't be fun for you. However many others enjoy the constant risk of someone coming to kill them. It adds a certain thrill to the game to know any of those 10 people standing near you might decide to attack you at any time. Needing to constantly be alert, and ready to fight back with no warning. Obviously there are pros and cons, and some players will like such a setting, and others will hate it.

Obviously closed pvp is much different, since no one can just attack without warning, and those that aren't interested in pvp don't have to participate.

It's all a matter of preference. Some will love the open pvp games, some will hate them, and that's fine. In this case ffxi is not really balanced for any kind of pvp.

being lvl 5 and having some lvl 80 come by and slaughter you just cause your there is dumb no matter what type of game your playing or how you want to play

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Originally Posted by Sureal

being lvl 5 and having some lvl 80 come by and slaughter you just cause your there is dumb no matter what type of game your playing or how you want to play

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Of course, which is why any decent game will prevent that, by not allowing players much higher level to attack much lower level players, or disabling pvp in starting areas, etc.

i loved PvP back when ppl actually did it. was fun to test your skills against others, play around with gear and sub job set ups to maximize killing or survival. using 2hr for laughs.... there is a long overdue update for ballista/brenner if you ask me.

just a few suggestions
-different game type for PvP. like free for all and/or team deathmatch,

-good gear rewards. purchased with points perhaps. worthwhile stats that may or may not be ballista only. fast cast, movement speed, - damage taken, haste.

- PvP "atma" - can start off with 1 effect via key item and purchase another 1 or 2 with points, much like lunar abbysites. with such buffs as 100% aquaveil, - 50% damage taken, regen/refresh/haste, hp/mp , status resistance, auras.no crazy stat boosts though, such things could level the playing field for jobs that have a hard time surviving, mages were often the walking dead.

-having the conflict status would change some things around. -75% damage when attacked from behind except from sneak attack like JA (everyone would run around in circles so they can attack and not be attacked). a large increase in melee/ws range??

-other rewards that arent junk, extra ballista points for winning/mvp/best job. huge xp bonuses. job seals? 1 free skill up!!

I agree PVP would be a nice if they fixed it or even added new game modes only because ballista and benner are so so.

I'd like Vanilla fights for 1v1 3v3 and maybe 6v6 then maybe have thing like winner stays on but gains a random debuff/buff and can stay in for a max of 10 battles.

Either way SE has added some PVP and tbh they should adjust it at least so it can be more fun.

I do think the rewards should be PVP only or Comedy items since like it's been said FFXI is a PVE game

We have Ballista and Brenner, you don't wanna use it as a football camp?, just reserve teh area, and kill one-one battles, that's what i do with my friends to test my skills against them

Make PvP have tangible rewards that are equal to AF3+1 or maybe slightly better. Remove the complicated mechanics found in Brenner and Ballista. Have one zone dedicated to it 24/7. Make it effortless to get there. That's the way to give PVP even a small amount of success.

Honestly, I am really put off by the idea of gear rewards for PvP because that just opens itself to people exploiting the system even more than they already do (Example: running circles around melee enemies). You'd have people only caring about the gear and not the competition. Depending on how it's implemented, this might even end with players just letting them wail on each other until they got the reward.

I suggested this back in the old day of HNM Fafnir, Nidhogg, King Behemoth, Aspid camping. Everyone was complaining about the bots, easiest way to solve the problem of bot claiming is make the zones those nms spawn in PVP zones. Now that eveyone is complaining about botting in abyssea zones it'd be just as easy to make abyssea zones pvp. Or we could add a WoE zone that was PvP, normal mobs would drop dyanmis singles, alexandrite, and empyrean +1 and +2 items, the NMs in those zones would drop high level gear or dynamis 100s, or even empyrean nm items. Also, it'd be nice if we could loot one piece of equiped gear off someone we defeated. I also like the colosseum idea where we kept track of high ranking players and linkshells.

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Originally Posted by sandman

I suggested this back in the old day of HNM Fafnir, Nidhogg, King Behemoth, Aspid camping. Everyone was complaining about the bots, easiest way to solve the problem of bot claiming is make the zones those nms spawn in PVP zones. Now that eveyone is complaining about botting in abyssea zones it'd be just as easy to make abyssea zones pvp. Or we could add a WoE zone that was PvP, normal mobs would drop dyanmis singles, alexandrite, and empyrean +1 and +2 items, the NMs in those zones would drop high level gear or dynamis 100s, or even empyrean nm items. Also, it'd be nice if we could loot one piece of equiped gear off someone we defeated. I also like the colosseum idea where we kept track of high ranking players and linkshells.

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That totally wouldn't kill the game off in a month.

LOL so what your saying is, you want to (at least in the botting days) to have some newb ls claim fafhogg only to have 300 people beat the hell out of them to get claim themselves, i could honestly see fafhogg never dieing, just constant pvp while fafhogg runs around like "WTF IS GOING ON, HAY GUYS IM OVER HERE" /SPIKEFLAIL

cause we all know how well that would end up working out

Why is open PvP even being suggested? Sure, it might help alleviate your frustration at someone outclaiming you, but it's not actually going to solve anything here. Keep PvP as it is, as a sport and completely optional.

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Originally Posted by Sureal

LOL so what your saying is, you want to (at least in the botting days) to have some newb ls claim fafhogg only to have 300 people beat the hell out of them to get claim themselves, i could honestly see fafhogg never dieing, just constant pvp while fafhogg runs around like "WTF IS GOING ON, HAY GUYS IM OVER HERE" /SPIKEFLAIL

cause we all know how well that would end up working out

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Nah, it'd die eventually. Probably after about 5-10 hours each.

PvP outside of events such as Ballista or Brenner is not going to happen in FFXI. FFXI is first and foremost a game about people working together to achieve common goals, not beating the stuffing out of each other. This is a core value of the game, and a key difference between it and many other MMOs such as WoW or WAR or City of Heroes/Villains or Dark Age of Camelot or Everquest or Planetside or, well, the list goes on.

PvP in FFXI is a team-building exercise. That's why Ballista is a team-based event, why Brenner came out even more team-focused instead of less team-focused, why there's LS Liga (which as far as I know nobody actually takes part in.) It's about friendly competition.

If you want to beat the stuffing out of your fellow players for the sake of beating the stuffing out of your fellow players, FFXI is probably not the game for you.

It seems to me that people who have something negative to say about Ballista have never really experienced it the way it was meant to be, like back in the day when you could find 18+ people per team in Jugner/Pashhow/Meriph. Also, those who suggest that there isn't PVP at all just don't know what they are talking about. This isn't your topic, stay out of it.

I, for one, am a total Ballista fanatic, and would love to see it's glory days again. No one job is superior to another if you're prepared to fight them. My favorite job to play in Ballista was DRK mainly, and I would tear up all the BLUs and PLDs etc. Ballista isn't only about utilizing your own knowledge and skills to its fullest capabilities, but also knowing your opponents as well as the jobs they are playing, and how they play them. It's much much more than simple beat-'em-up, especially in a 1vs1 duel. Those of you who have participated in the real Ballista and got rocked by 10 opposing players have reason to be skeptical about it, it can be annoying (I've experienced this many times). But that's also part of the learning experience you gain. The lesson learned is "Don't do whatever it is you just did to get yourself killed!"

Again, to all you nay-sayers: don't get your panties in a knot because you have no interest in a certain aspect of the game that has been around much longer than most of you began playing. If you don't want to participate, then don't. But don't talk trash about it.

The one and only thing that I would love to see changed to Ballista is the accessibility. Since no one participates in the official matches anymore, literally everyone I ever knew to do Ballista (that still plays) has run dry of Ballista points to enter the Diorama. If we have to pay to play, I'd rather just spend a little gil, or perhaps create a new purpose for the hundreds of Beastman's/Kindred's seals/crests that are collecting dust. I also like the idea of implementing more zones available for combat, as well as the idea to request a duel with someone any time.

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Originally Posted by rog

latency isn't really that important in ffxi. Being off by .2-.3 seconds isn't really going to matter in ffxi. Obviously for some games a 300ms latency is unplayable, but ffxi is not one of those games. Absolutely nothing ever happens in <.3 seconds.

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I disagree. If i have a 250 ms lag from japan and see a move being readied, it has already been in progress for 250 ms on the server, add 250 ms for my reaction command to get back to the server, and we're at 500 ms already. Assuming the player has a reaction time of 150 ms (not actually sure what most people are at, 150 sounds fast for a human) a JP player will have a 750 ms window to stun this action, while an EU player will have 350 ms. This results in the jp player being much m ore likely to stun the action in time than the eu player.

This doesn't affect an enormous part of the game, but it can be pretty annoying especially with gaze attacks. I can sit with my eyes glued to the monitor, looking for a gaze attack to be prepared, turn away within 200 ms, and still get hit by the attack even if I see the attack actually being done almost a second after i (on my own screen) turned away.

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Originally Posted by Amanie

i loved PvP back when ppl actually did it. was fun to test your skills against others, play around with gear and sub job set ups to maximize killing or survival. using 2hr for laughs.... there is a long overdue update for ballista/brenner if you ask me.

just a few suggestions
-different game type for PvP. like free for all and/or team deathmatch,

-good gear rewards. purchased with points perhaps. worthwhile stats that may or may not be ballista only. fast cast, movement speed, - damage taken, haste.

- PvP "atma" - can start off with 1 effect via key item and purchase another 1 or 2 with points, much like lunar abbysites. with such buffs as 100% aquaveil, - 50% damage taken, regen/refresh/haste, hp/mp , status resistance, auras.no crazy stat boosts though, such things could level the playing field for jobs that have a hard time surviving, mages were often the walking dead.

-having the conflict status would change some things around. -75% damage when attacked from behind except from sneak attack like JA (everyone would run around in circles so they can attack and not be attacked). a large increase in melee/ws range??

-other rewards that arent junk, extra ballista points for winning/mvp/best job. huge xp bonuses. job seals? 1 free skill up!!

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good stuff <3 !!! keep it up people

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

It seems to me that people who have something negative to say about Ballista have never really experienced it the way it was meant to be, like back in the day when you could find 18+ people per team in Jugner/Pashhow/Meriph. Also, those who suggest that there isn't PVP at all just don't know what they are talking about. This isn't your topic, stay out of it.

I, for one, am a total Ballista fanatic, and would love to see it's glory days again. No one job is superior to another if you're prepared to fight them. My favorite job to play in Ballista was DRK mainly, and I would tear up all the BLUs and PLDs etc. Ballista isn't only about utilizing your own knowledge and skills to its fullest capabilities, but also knowing your opponents as well as the jobs they are playing, and how they play them. It's much much more than simple beat-'em-up, especially in a 1vs1 duel. Those of you who have participated in the real Ballista and got rocked by 10 opposing players have reason to be skeptical about it, it can be annoying (I've experienced this many times). But that's also part of the learning experience you gain. The lesson learned is "Don't do whatever it is you just did to get yourself killed!"

Again, to all you nay-sayers: don't get your panties in a knot because you have no interest in a certain aspect of the game that has been around much longer than most of you began playing. If you don't want to participate, then don't. But don't talk trash about it.

The one and only thing that I would love to see changed to Ballista is the accessibility. Since no one participates in the official matches anymore, literally everyone I ever knew to do Ballista (that still plays) has run dry of Ballista points to enter the Diorama. If we have to pay to play, I'd rather just spend a little gil, or perhaps create a new purpose for the hundreds of Beastman's/Kindred's seals/crests that are collecting dust. I also like the idea of implementing more zones available for combat, as well as the idea to request a duel with someone any time.

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I would like to have ballista glory days back too, and yeah, like many old ballista players I ran out of Ballista points a time ago.

I say leave the PVP that is in the game as is. It is the one of the main resions I'm still playing FF 11 the other is friends. I have tried other games that was PvP all I have come back from them is the same if you are new you are nothing more then a walking target for the higher lvl's to kill for there laughs so I no longer even consider buying any of the new games that have come out because of this. If you want to do the stuff that is PvP in FF 11 thats fine just find others and make a LS for it no need to add more that well not see any more use then what is all ready in the game.

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Originally Posted by GoBs

When are we going to Make PVP Better! It Sucks atm :(
Linkshell Vs Linkshell would be great! 18 vs 18 Do Hold Land's get point's for how long you have it. What do you guys think?

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Might be safe to say GoBs is Feiwong? He's the only one that cares about Ballista. lol