This game has been ruined...

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Originally Posted by Hayward

If the game's been ruined, then the players (past and current) ruined it by demanding only the absolute best in everything.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

You've seen the talking points an absurd amount of times:

*"Level a real job. <insert job here> isn't efficient in parties"
*"<insert job here> is worthless without <insert nigh impossible to get weapon/armor here>"

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You do realize that's not the players fault, but a product of bad game design?

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Originally Posted by RalphTheGalka

Here's a little history lesson for the people who are going to say FoV/GoV/Abyssea/whatever-content-I-don't-like ruined the game. Back in the WoTG days well before Abyssea was announced, I was trying to level BRD. And many a days there were only 4 people total looking for group on my server during prime time, most of which were 70+ and only wanted a meritpo.

Those days weren't exactly fun times and I sure as heck am glad things are more opened up now. Things had to be changed, it was the only way this game was going to survive. There simply isn't the population to support mandatory 6 person groups for xp.

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funny, I levelled RDM in the days of WotG and I would log in to tells for a party. after I was done XPing for the day and I needed to sell off trash before bed, I would have to go /anon because I would get tells without even having my flag up. seems to me that an in demand job like Bard should have had no issues getting XP. perhaps the problem wasn't your server.

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Originally Posted by fillerbunny9

funny, I levelled RDM in the days of WotG and I would log in to tells for a party. after I was done XPing for the day and I needed to sell off trash before bed, I would have to go /anon because I would get tells without even having my flag up. seems to me that an in demand job like Bard should have had no issues getting XP. perhaps the problem wasn't your server.

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He's got a point there. In the day, BRD and RDM were "princess" jobs- you had to screw up pretty good to NOT be wanted in PT's on a regular basis.

G

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Originally Posted by fillerbunny9

funny, I levelled RDM in the days of WotG and I would log in to tells for a party. after I was done XPing for the day and I needed to sell off trash before bed, I would have to go /anon because I would get tells without even having my flag up. seems to me that an in demand job like Bard should have had no issues getting XP. perhaps the problem wasn't your server.

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*yawn* You'd have impressed me if you mentioned BLM, SMN, BST, or PUP. As it stands, *yawn*.

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Originally Posted by Oakrest

You do realize that's not the players fault, but a product of bad game design?

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Dodge responsibility all you like but S-E isn't pointing a gun at these endgamers' heads, telling them to exclude 66~75% of the available jobs in the game. No, these folks needed 20-30K EXP/hr yesterday or the party was a failure (BTW, these are the same people complaining about the speed of EXP in Abyssea. Figure that).

The forum that shall not be named has had its share of responsibility for the state of FFXI before and after Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by fillerbunny9

funny, I levelled RDM in the days of WotG and I would log in to tells for a party. after I was done XPing for the day and I needed to sell off trash before bed, I would have to go /anon because I would get tells without even having my flag up. seems to me that an in demand job like Bard should have had no issues getting XP. perhaps the problem wasn't your server.

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Can't get invited into parties that don't exist. My point is that the xp scene on Carbuncle was pretty dead and there often weren't enough people to form one.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Dodge responsibility all you like but S-E isn't pointing a gun at these endgamers' heads, telling them to exclude 66~75% of the available jobs in the game. No, these folks needed 20-30K EXP/hr yesterday or the party was a failure (BTW, these are the same people complaining about the speed of EXP in Abyssea. Figure that).

The forum that shall not be named has had its share of responsibility for the state of FFXI before and after Abyssea.

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I'm sorry, But yes, They are holding the gun to our heads with some of this stuff. they design events that are impossible or very very improbable without the use of certain equipment, and no one likes wasting time. Events like NNI were already very luck based, without the best items, it was almost impossible to the point of useless to hit floor 100.

Delve and Skirmish further push this, as the are intentionally designed to be for the best, so while some people can get away with subpar, people don't like wasting time, and seeing how its their life, they have the right to do this.

Now, that said, its clear SE isn't holding the gun on all events, But on a few there are just no options for less than best if you wish to win. Something like Delve farming could invite a sub-par DD or two and still be successful, but again, I don't comprehend nor understand the hatred or butthurt at people who chose efficiency, its the 1-2 hours of their life being spent, I'm sure they want to spend it effectively, and you spend yours how you want.

If anythings killing the game its the attrocious "Gimme everything!" players who think that if you don't spoon feed them good gear you're an elitist prick, and therfor refuse to get better at anything because they'll always have something to scapegoat the blame for. Is this you? I really don't know, and am not accusing you of such, just the type of people i feel ruin or kill this game... its not the lack of gear, its the attitude problem.

Sorry OP game is better now not worse.
I don't miss waiting 3 weeks for an invite only not to catch it because I went to the bathroom ( true story )

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Originally Posted by Falseliberty

Sorry OP game is better now not worse.
I don't miss waiting 3 weeks for an invite only not to catch it because I went to the bathroom ( true story )

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I know that feel.

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Originally Posted by Rustic

He's got a point there. In the day, BRD and RDM were "princess" jobs- you had to screw up pretty good to NOT be wanted in PT's on a regular basis.

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In the ToAU and WotG days, only reason we wouldn't invite a certain BRD would be bad attitude or something, like one telling my friend that he hopes his family dies in a fire. (True Story, too.)

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Originally Posted by Hayward

G

*yawn* You'd have impressed me if you mentioned BLM, SMN, BST, or PUP. As it stands, *yawn*.

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if you needed a party to level BST you were doing it wrong. there were Pudding-burns going up until the level cap. PUP was levelled to ~62 in parties before I started soloing. SMN you were levelling in your level 18 Sync astral burns (and turning a profit as well) but hey, I was levelling jobs up in normal parties all the way until Abyssea, so what the hell do I know.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Dodge responsibility all you like but S-E isn't pointing a gun at these endgamers' heads, telling them to exclude 66~75% of the available jobs in the game. No, these folks needed 20-30K EXP/hr yesterday or the party was a failure (BTW, these are the same people complaining about the speed of EXP in Abyssea. Figure that).

The forum that shall not be named has had its share of responsibility for the state of FFXI before and after Abyssea.

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That's a bit ironic, and extreme - I don't think any guns are involved, except maybe with the Corsairs'. If gamers are making the decision to exclude other players based on the ability to complete content via job-specific advantages, why not? Doing stuff the hard way is only fun for so long. Why would you want to complete content slower, with more risk for failure? Your response is self-defeating.

Moreover, I always try to play to be inclusive of all players and jobs. The reality is that some things can't be done with certain setups. You're not gonna beat floor 100 on NNI with 6 white mages, that's not the players fault.

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Originally Posted by Falseliberty

Sorry OP game is better now not worse.
I don't miss waiting 3 weeks for an invite only not to catch it because I went to the bathroom ( true story )

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and who fault is that for waiting hours and hours for invite and not even trying to start your own party?

It's not that easy. You'd still be competing with every other PT for the same vital support and healing jobs except you have the added disadvantage of being whatever the unpopular job of that day is.

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Originally Posted by nyheen

and who fault is that for waiting hours and hours for invite and not even trying to start your own party?

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Considering that the supply of tanks and healers was far outweighed by DD/support/other and before level sync you had to be in a small level range to fairly get exp, it was the norm. That's why 75 used to be a big milestone. Unless you or a friend or both filled the core job(s) for a party or someone pl'ed you making a sea all showed you 2 DD's one afk, a rng 2 level too high and no healers

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Originally Posted by nyheen

and who fault is that for waiting hours and hours for invite and not even trying to start your own party?

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Do you remember how hard it was to find and keep healers and tanks? I loved the old parties but leveling sucked especially as a drg. I remember making parties and waiting hours for healers to get to us in yhutunga only to get 5 kills in before they dced or left for RL reasons. Then there where no more whom or even rdm seeking. Wasted nights where the norm.

dont know about you guys but around that time before the level sync it was possible to make lot of different odd pts and make it work well. sure pld and nin was mostly the main tanks & whm rdm was healers but it was lot others around as well. the pts i used to have was (war def gear),war, (smn me), blu rng blm. wars duo tank while the others blu blm smn mostly main heal. it better then waiting for hours for no exp and it was ok pt in Bibiki Bay 65+ or so i think.

these are some sets up i can remember back in the day
full smn pt on bombs in Uleguerand Range
mnk tank, thf,thf X3 drgs, 60+ Bhaflau Thickets birds
X5 rng, smn. King Ranperre's Tomb bats, 55+ i think
rdm tank, blu thf bst smn brd. GC 46+ down hole.

etc many many set up. had sam tanks, dnc tanks pup tanks or healers, blu healers, list goes on. and had lot of fun doing it. sometimes you need to think outside the box and be creative.

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Originally Posted by nyheen

dont know about you guys but around that time before the level sync it was possible to make lot of different odd pts and make it work well. sure pld and nin was mostly the main tanks & whm rdm was healers but it was lot others around as well. the pts i used to have was (war def gear),war, (smn me), blu rng blm. wars duo tank while the others blu blm smn mostly main heal. it better then waiting for hours for no exp and it was ok pt in Bibiki Bay 65+ or so i think.

these are some sets up i can remember back in the day
full smn pt on bombs in Uleguerand Range
mnk tank, thf,thf X3 drgs, 60+ Bhaflau Thickets birds
X5 rng, smn. King Ranperre's Tomb bats, 55+ i think
rdm tank, blu thf bst smn brd. GC 46+ down hole.

etc many many set up. had sam tanks, dnc tanks pup tanks or healers, blu healers, list goes on. and had lot of fun doing it. sometimes you need to think outside the box and be creative.

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And you're really stretching. The fact is the old way was inefficient and pretty stagnant. Unless you had a static waiting/shouting/searching for hours was more often than not the standard. This isn't a dick wagging contest. This is something you can pick any ffxi forum at any point before lvl sync and find the complaints, the stories, and the dramedy.

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Originally Posted by Omegablue

And you're really stretching. The fact is the old way was inefficient and pretty stagnant. Unless you had a static waiting/shouting/searching for hours was more often than not the standard. This isn't a dick wagging contest. This is something you can pick any ffxi forum at any point before lvl sync and find the complaints, the stories, and the dramedy.

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ok i dont get what you trying to say since i was only replying to the person talking about LFP all day back then and not aleast trying to start one. of course the old exp way before, exp boost, level sync, pages etc was slower. it not anymore with all the updates, it just people think 18/18 pt spamming 3 exp mobs is faster vs a 3-6 pt spamming 100-300+ exp mobs + pages. with double exp weekend coming up it will be way faster. but i forgot this is the new generation of kids

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Originally Posted by nyheen

ok i dont get what you trying to say since i was only replying to the person talking about LFP all day back then and not aleast trying to start one. of course the old exp way before, exp boost, level sync, pages etc was slower. it not anymore with all the updates, it just people think 18/18 pt spamming 3 exp mobs is faster vs a 3-6 pt spamming 100-300+ exp mobs + pages. with double exp weekend coming up it will be way faster. but i forgot this is the new generation of kids

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Who's to say they didn't try starting their own parties a few times? Though I know when I tried forming my own parties, if I could not get a healer and tank fairly quick, would put up a /seacom and flag before going to go farm something, sure beat sitting in town doing nothing.

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Originally Posted by Omegablue

Considering that the supply of tanks and healers was far outweighed by DD/support/other and before level sync you had to be in a small level range to fairly get exp, it was the norm. That's why 75 used to be a big milestone. Unless you or a friend or both filled the core job(s) for a party or someone pl'ed you making a sea all showed you 2 DD's one afk, a rng 2 level too high and no healers

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Yep. Pre level-sync + FoV/GoV, the party system rapidly broke down as level increased and population of that level decreased. Of course, then you had Abyssea and suddenly, people could easily do nothing at all for 69 levels of cleave leeching- at least your average GoV alliance tends to enjoy taking any leechers and dumping them in the nearest dark hole till they homepoint from being MPK'd.

It's a case where they "cured" the problem so strongly the patient was as bad off from the side effects of the treatment as they were the disease in the first place.