To all adventurers and pioneers!

Very well spoken, Xerius. So, back to the topic at hand then?

What the heck is this "mog gardens" stuff? I don't remember hearing anything about that from Vanafest...

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

And I know for a fact that angry criticisms and claiming you're quitting the game is as effective as talking LOUDER AND SLOWER to someone who doesn't speak English. You're not making things any better. In fact, your making them worse by inciting other people to join in. "Why yes! I too am also upset at these facts! /like" It's bad publicity for the game, so new players and prospective players get the feeling that there's nothing worth playing for. It reaffirms other peoples beliefs that the game is no longer worth playing. It's speeding the demise of the game to act like this.

If you really like the game, and you really want to slow its death knell, find some good things to say about it. Like some posts that highlight its good aspects. Like the posts the reps put up, even if it's disappointing news. Attempt to be courteous, even to people who do not deserve it, or these forums become a caustic environment.

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I cant honestly think about anything good the game has going for it currently myself, except the few people I like to play it with. Most events get boring in 3~5 runs, drop rates are terrible on most things worth getting, updates are put back constantly, even small convenience ones like Storage, updates are pushed back for years even when they could prove to be crucial to a jobs ability to perform. What good can I list off? There are a ton of events that are fun the first time around, there is a lot to do, you can play all of the jobs and play them decently but not well because of inventory problems, there are a lot of good people you can play with. Does the good outweigh the bad? In my opinion, yes, I can find very few things that are good enough to make the list that are not mixed with sarcasm and bad things, like how the drop rates on things are terrible so the game is sure to last you a while getting what you want.

In all honesty, saying something good is about as terrible as saying something bad. You say bad things you cut their money, making it harder to do things we want anyways. You say good things, they think your happy with what they are doing, and keep doing it, even if it is a false smile. Its kinda like if you want your kid to have a bright future doing what they want, while you are listening to them play an instrument, when all they want to do is play music, and they are horrible at it. Either you can tell them they suck at it and its making your ears bleed, in which case you crush their dreams, and they might give up on it, or you lie to them, they play it horribly, and think they are doing a good job, so they keep doing it even though they fail at it.

Basically, if we smile and accept it, we may give them more money, but they are doing to misuse it thinking they are doing what we want them to. If we yell at them for it, they have less money, and cant do what we want them to even if they wanted to in the first place. Its a no win situation, the best way it could go is for us to complain, them pay attention and do what we want, and then no one is leaving, rather we start saying were happy they listen, and that they add things we ask for. People think we have a highly pessimistic community here, cause we do, people think we are being screwed and ignored, cause it seem that we are a lot of the time, maybe if SE took more of our ideas, gave us more responses, didn't delete our feedback, and had more of an open channel with us, we wouldn't think that. Maybe then we would actually praise them for their service, but that isn't how things are around here, they keep using the money we give them to do the wrong things, and its getting worse. They should be using their decreasing paychecks to find out what is wrong, why its shrinking, and how to fix it, its not rocket science, they could do it fairly easy I believe, but instead, they use their smaller paycheck to keep pushing out the same stuff as normal, we keep complaining and leaving, and they simply ignore it, just like almost everything else we do.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Very well spoken, Xerius. So, back to the topic at hand then?

What the heck is this "mog gardens" stuff? I don't remember hearing anything about that from Vanafest...

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I am 90% sure they mean the personal island.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I cant honestly think about anything good the game has going for it currently myself, except the few people I like to play it with.

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Do they share your opinion regarding the state of the game? Do they have interests outside of FFXI which coincide with yours? Perhaps that's how you should keep in touch with your friends instead of the thing which you can honestly think of nothing it has good going for it.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

You say good things, they think your happy with what they are doing, and keep doing it, even if it is a false smile.

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How many of our complaints have reached SE? The only real victory I can remember was the whole clickandbuy mess where hundreds (thousands perhaps?) of players simply refused to conform and SE obliged us after a few months of complaints and added a method for direct pay. What else has all the bellyaching accomplished?

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

maybe if SE took more of our ideas, gave us more responses, didn't delete our feedback

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What is the paranoia with them deleting posts? Do you have an exact copy of the post which was deleted? Because there's still hundreds of slanderous posts they choose not to delete, yet when they delete one, suddenly they're trying to silence us? What most likely happened is it had a naughty word in it and some random player reported the post. A GM most likely responded to the report and deleted it because it did indeed contain salty language.

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What most likely happened is it had a naughty word in it and some random player reported the post. A GM most likely responded to the report and deleted it because it did indeed contain salty language.

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I actually browsed over the first post before it got deleted, and I don't remember it being really any worse than most critical posts. Actually I don't recall any profanity in it at all, the worst word I remember from the post was the word "fleecing", which is why I'm still pretty confused as to why that particular post got deleted when there's plenty of worse posts all over the forum.

I do my best to refrain from profanity when among strangers, but when among people I know and trust, or when alone, there are things I say that would make a sailor blush. As such, I hardly bat an eye when I see even the most extreme of profanities, and I would be quite capable of reading an entire post rife with explitives, yet not recall it as such if someone asked me. Are you certain you are not the same way? (just the part about forgetting it had swear words in it because you honestly don't care about the s-word.)

That being said, tons of posts get away with words they should not get away with. Even if the scenario I describe in my previous post is true, either the person reporting it took exception to it for reasons beyond the profanity/defamation itself, or the forums mods made that call on their own for reasons we'll probably never learn.

So with all the changes that they are going to be doing with our systems, I really think it is fair to ask for Innin and Yonnin to be unlocked when doing /NIN.

Both are useful enmity tools and Shadows may become a lot more attractive of a feature for the general populace when we start taking increasing damage under the effects of defense down and buffs such as LR/Berserk. It also allows us to switch between accuracy and evasion while adding benefits to both.

It's seems to be very hard for a great deal of people to conceptualize what they will have to do to adapt to the changes to Defense and IMHO you would benefit from giving people a couple of small luxuries to rely on while they are adapting to what looks to be a more fair and balanced system. It's not like you can't easily design mobs that counter /NIN, we all know the many weaknesses of shadows. You can continue to design single Target TP moves that go directly through shadows.

If anything it might stop some of complaining that has devolved into whining.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

So with all the changes that they are going to be doing with our systems, I really think it is fair to ask for Innin and Yonnin to be unlocked when doing /NIN.

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I understand your point. However, locking those to nin main is one of the few of these type moves I actually agree with by SE. I'm a big fan of job relevance, and having extremely useful abilities tied solely to a job main is about the only way I see to do this these days. I can't imagine FT nins would be all that pleased to see these abilities available to anyone that /nin. and even with them toning down AoE TP moves in the future they still can strip all shadows instantly (that's actually how I solo mages and nins on my brd, Horde makes them laughable). That's why a few people that want to see x job become viable as a main are starting to advocate that new abilities be restricted to level 50 and above, to keep the other players from marginalizing them even more by being able to /x and do the same thing.

I'm sad to say this. But the worst part of FFXI is that it's hard to enjoy something because of other players never ending complaints. I won't talk about it here because it's a never ending discussion and I'm not looking for that. I understand why people feel a certain way. Just quit the game already.

I'm for one is really really excited about the expansion. I bought the game at day 1 of US release. And never really got into it until the later years. I mostly play for lore and to tackle hard content. And that's also where FFXI have it's strong points. Legion have been fun to play and I managed to get through all the missions. I even got all the achievements on the Xbox 360 version which only a handful of people have done. Now I'm going for 100% completion of Abyssea (damn you Fiat Lux fight...). ^^

I'm trying to say, play the game as it is now. There are a lot to do and focus on. Sure, things are not top notch in all categories, but you have to work with it. Look forward to updates, even vouch your opinions in the forums about new stuff. They love that. Don't be an elitist jerk, no one really likes those. Show some sportsmanship.

I'm on nails for this expansion. I've already been setting up guild events where we help each other do Reives to get a head start in gear from Colonization so we can move on to Skirmish as quickly as possible. This will be grand.

Keep up the good work Dev Team and Community Team!

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Originally Posted by Stan64

I'm sad to say this. But the worst part of FFXI is that it's hard to enjoy something because of other players never ending complaints.

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I am happy you can enjoy the game, I however am unable to enjoy the game because my favorite job is rejected from almost all events even though it is setup in some of the best gear in the game for it, and I play it very well.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I am happy you can enjoy the game, I however am unable to enjoy the game because my favorite job is rejected from almost all events even though it is setup in some of the best gear in the game for it, and I play it very well.

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I didn't want a discussion. And you clearly didn't understand the phrase "work with it".

I only play White Mage. But for Nyzul Isle Uncharted (NNI) it wasn't viable. So I leveled and geared SCH, it took me a week (I realize it would take longer for the average person). Then we put months into NNI until we all got 15/15 in gear. I love WHM but sometimes you have to see that you can't bring every job to all events. You might think it's wrong that some bosses are zerged and there is virtually no time for a RDM to be useful really, and it might be. But that is the game and you have to take it from there. You should be glad you didn't career with BST at least.

As a RDM you are an extremly potent player who can solo a lot of content with ease. You should go watch upbeatglitch channel on youtube for inspiration and maybe start thinking about another bandwagon main job you can decently gear if needed. But you are free to not do anything about it and whine on the forums as well. It's your choice.

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Originally Posted by Stan64

As a RDM you are an extremly potent player who can solo a lot of content with ease. You should go watch upbeatglitch channel on youtube for inspiration and maybe start thinking about another bandwagon main job you can decently gear if needed. But you are free to not do anything about it and whine on the forums as well. It's your choice.

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I play DRK as well, but I still complain. You said you main WHM, WHM is good in almost everything, they have few events where another job is needed and WHM is not actually a good choice. My problem is when I join any group for any event, go with my LS to almost anything, and I am told to go on SCH, BLM, DRK, or BLU, but almost never go on my RDM. I do not want RDM to be the best ever, I want it to be used with other players. I know RDM can solo a ton of things, its been able to do that since back at 75, people still do amazing things today like soloing Azdaja without cruor buffs or atma in Abyssea. My problem is that I do not simply want to solo things, but I want to play with others as well, and right now thats not actually possible. Also I have many other problems with the game like Macros and Inventory. I agree there are good enough things to keep us here and maybe we should not complain so much, but in all honesty I think I have every right and reason to complain when my job is as worthless as it is in most events and people will not let me play my job.

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Originally Posted by Stan64

But you are free to not do anything about it and whine on the forums as well. It's your choice.

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Since when did wanting to get value for your money equate to whining? Although this post might get deleted, I'm going to speak my mind regardless. Look, it's obvious a certain (probably overwhelming) amount of our FFXI revenue is going towards improving FFXIV, and has been for quite a while now. It's blatantly obvious, anyone can see that. I'm personally totally apathetic about FFXIV as a game. But what I do care about, is my hard earned money NOT going towards the product that I'm paying for.

Let's say you're renovating your basement, how would you feel if the workers barely finished one room, then took YOUR remaining resources (that you paid for) to fix your neighbors house that they botched on the first attempt? All the while, they keep giving you the run-around saying they'll get around to you soon (but you see the freaking van parked nextdoor everyday). You'd be infuriated wouldn't you? Any sane person would.

Say what you want, but this is a terribly shady business practice, and I think lots of people are beginning to be fed up with it. I don't blame anyone for being frustrated, and I wouldn't dare have the audacity to accuse fellow patrons of "whining" for expecting an acceptable return on their investments.

Get used to the "whining". Because if SE doesn't change their philosophy on this, there's going to be plenty more in the future.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

WHM is good in almost everything

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

WHM is not actually a good choice

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Contradiction. Objection! There are two reasons I'm playing career White Mage. 1. It's fun. 2 It's needed.

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Originally Posted by Fermion

Since when did wanting to get value for your money equate to whining?

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I thought it was clearly an exaggeration when I wrote that, and was directed to a small amount of people. But there is a fine line for constructive feedback and complaints and a blatant mess of text that don't help anyone. I encouraged you to express your opinions in a graceful style. But when you read the forums many people don't do that. That's where my problems lie. And these people wont take up and answer to any outings as mine. It's you and Mr. Demon6324236, two fine chaps that easily know their way with words, that answers in stead and take criticism that was not directed at them and clearly aren't a part of the mob who can't write constructive posts.

I also don't think the money discussion really is worth it. I really do understand the concern. But it is a company. That said there are a tons of thing you should understand. They do it for the money. And it's not the FFXI dev team who do it for the money explicitly. It's their owners. Many of them are old farts who don't understand communities and stuff like that. There is a reason big companies can't do everything good most of the times while small studios can be awesome. If you want me to explain more just tell me. I got a lot of valid points. But you are right. They are using the revenue from FFXI and put it in their pockets or try to fuel other projects that don't bear fruition right now, it's only logical from a business perspective. And I'm sure the dev team do everything in their power to make the right decisions to make us stay. They are probably hard at work and have to put up with all the complaints and threats about quitting the game, because almost no one that is happy will go online and praise. Must feel really rewarding.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

WHM is good in almost everything, they have few events where another job is needed and WHM is not actually a good choice.

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Originally Posted by Stan64

Contradiction. Objection! There are two reasons I'm playing career White Mage. 1. It's fun. 2 It's needed.

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Almost everything, means a large majority of things, but not all things, in this case, WHM is good in almost everything, there are very few events where WHM is not amazing, one of which you mentioned, NNI, that is one of the few events where WHM is not a good choice. So really, that was not a contradiction. As for why you are a career WHM. I never questioned why you are, I stated why I am, and the differences between your job and my job. As you said, your job is needed, my problem is, I do not have that same thing going for me. My list of reasons for being a career RDM are fairly similar to yours, but without one of the reasons you have, my list consists of... 1. It's fun. The end, I mean other than that I am good at it, but I think that is something that comes with maining a job for more than a few days.

My job is not needed basically, this is my point, that is why I complain. Others complain about their jobs for the same reason, like SMNs, who are allowed to join alliances for Perfect Defense, and are a near requirement right now, once thats taken down a notch, wheres SMN gonna go? They have been missing their latest Avatars which were announced more than two years ago, they have an extremely long timer on their most powerful moves which if lowered could make them somewhat respectable in damage.

I understand you did not come here and make your post in an attempt to get into a discussion, nor did you want or expect one I am sure. Fact is, I admit, I brought you into one, and the reason why I did so is because you basically said we should be happy with what we get, but in some cases, what we get really is not good enough. Updates put back for more than a year, problems and bugs never fixed, not helping players out with content we believe to be broken, not explaining things we do not understand even with our testing, refusing to update content which has ridiculous features to it.

In case you are at all curious of examples. Updates, Storage, Avatars, DRK Fast Cast, just to name a few. Problems and bugs, helping us with broken content, well go farm the Beastmen Kings in Aht for a Mythic, get back to me in two months when you finally get them all to spawn. Not explaining things we think are broken, look at the Emp DRG+2 legs, we still have no idea what "Enhances Soul Jump" does after its had years to test it, the player base finds out most things like this in less than a month, we have waited years, no success. Refusing to update content, look at VW and its .5% or lower drop rates on weapons and tell me what human being thinks that is in any way a sane drop rate for an item that drops in an event that requires 12~18 people to do it.

The point is, this player base complains because we see problems and flaws in this game. To you and may seem much better, you seem like you have done most content, you have all of the achievements, thats says something all on its own about your experience with the games content. So its completely possible you have done everything, and think overall its good. Then again, I have no idea what kind of player you are either, do you enjoy the story? Do you enjoy collecting gear? Do you strive to be the best and enjoy the climb to attain that power? I can not say, but it all effects your outlook on the game as well. I myself strive to be the best RDM there is, while I enjoy playing the game with friends and want to enjoy the game as my RDM, rather than being forced on to other jobs. This game as it is right now, does not support that for me, drop rates on many things are to low, like Ephemeron, my RDM is not accepted because it is too weak for most content even in the best of gear, and rather than voicing my complains, I am told on the very forums which were made for feedback, that I should be happy with the game how it is.

I am sorry for ranting, I am tired and I get like this when I am, but I also am speaking my mind, so I hope you take my words to heart and understand my point of view rather than misunderstanding it and taking it the wrong way as I believe you did last time.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Words, lots of them.

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Well spoken, Sir!

Now let's get back on track and use this thread for hyping up Adoulin and hope it's more RDM friendly!

I'm mostly curious how hard Skirmish is and how much gearing you need to do in Colonization before you can do it properly. And they even touched briefly that they are already planning a higher tier than Skirmish. Makes me giggly. =D

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Now let's get back on track and use this thread for hyping up Adoulin and hope it's more RDM friendly!

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I think a lot of people missed the points of complaints. I think the logic is simple at this point. Like it or not ALL things are eventually going to die. You can either stand up and fight for life, lay back and die without a fight or assist in its process. What side have you chosen when you see people tell others to "Just quit!", "Stop complaining" or "lets hype it anyway?"

You have people complaining about the loss of resources, that in turn causes a bigger negative impact. People get on that band wagon when others say "Just quit!" and "Stop whining!" that makes people want to leave more. When those people leave things don't get better. There are less resources and the cycle repeats until the system eventually collapses. I say this time and time again. PEOPLE COMPLAIN BECAUSE THEY CARE! If they didn't care they wouldn't complain. When they just leave without complaining they're letting nature take its course the same way people eventually react to terminal illnesses.

What I'm seeing is this mentality "as long as we can get money out of it we'll keep it going" as stated in a past interview. This means that if people keep playing they don't really care as long as the money keeps flowing. If the money stops flowing they do care about the money but, instead of gaining customer confidence, they might choose to cut more resources or just flat out cancel the game.

I think they realize the game has seen better days and investing money in promotion isn't worth it. The expansion did help a little but even in it's hay day at the peek of profits it was underachieving from the corporate standpoint. This was stated officially by a high level SE staff.

What's this mean? it means that the seekers expansion might be the last invested large scale project for this version. When people complain it's more likely pointless aside from the satisfaction of saying "I told you so." or "I'm upset the direction things are headed and the way we feel abandon."

I can tell from what I'm seeing they aren't promoting player/popularity base growth. It's like the money from the loyal players is keeping this game alive but not allowed to make it grow. When people complain it isn't very important if the agenda isn't GROW the player base and it's public popularity. Obviously if these loyal customers leave and they can't cut enough corners to make a respectable profit they'll just shut it down entirely.

This is just like if you stop paying or the credit card issues a charge back. They won't call you to say hay why did you stop paying? They'll just suspend your account until you come back asking about it with money in hand. In most cases you'll need to jump through hoops to get back into the game if your account becomes delinquent. They also don't usually send people questionnaires unless you directly ask them to email you one. So when people quit they don't get a "please tell us why you left." It's more like when you stop payment business is finalized then and there without regard to the loss of loyal customers.

It's not like you still see worldwide commercials when the game was first launched "Final Fantasy 11 a massive online MMO etc. etc. I don't think there is much care publicly if it shuts down at this point because they're putting the promotional efforts into moving customers into FFXIV. This gives the impression that FFXI is being used to simply maintain the extremely loyal customers in it for the re-lauch of FFXIV. This way when they eventually shut down FFXI they'll have a better chance of moving the loyal players to FFXIV.

The issues players are seeing may only get worse as time go's along. Less happy customers = less profit. Less profit = less resources sent to support and/or development. In this case it'll probability cause less development resources that result in even more issues. Make people happy and the profits increase or stabilize. If you keep taking away the resources needed to keep people happy or become oblivious to their wants/needs there is only one direction things can go.

Look at them recently dropping XP support. Sure it's an old OS but the game is also 10 years old and their FFXIV is supporting XP! The costumers who have the outdated OS are sort of being thrown away. Even though the game runs better on XP for most players. It's announcements like this that give customers the impression that "we don't really care." You can't disagree if you aren't affected by the outcome.

I also don't think it's the guy making these game changes choice. They're probably being pushed into a corner and doing their best to survive with resources being taken away to promote more lucrative investments. If you read the wiki the CEO stated that FFXI was the most profitable title SE has ever launched. He said this around the same time they announced this latest expansion. In reality contradictory financial statement was made elsewhere about how they STILL wasn't satisfied with the turn around profits.

For the record I didn't mention any names of staff members or other posters when I wrote this. If you want your stuff deleted quick just say the names of company staff when complaining it'll get your message deleted really quick. Also on side not if you think your post is going to get deleted keep a backup and post it offsite outside this forums general control. Then unless you receive a cease and desist letter or become banned you should have something people can read still if someone decides to nuke it.

I could go on about this. But would rather get back to the topic. I think the developers can learn from the "Tales of X" this games have jobs that are unique classes with stronger functionality in balanced aspects of combat. They can also run on AI that is fully configurable like FF12 characters with the multi-character AI. The Tales characters didn't even have MP yet still managed to make mages and DD's balanced because their casting times kept things in check. They also don't even have a hate system the monster chooses a target based on what it thinks will make it win or survive the longest dynamically.

If you can't get new customers you can at least make it so the customers who wish it can buy accounts that are server AI NPC characters. At least you'll get multiple money from a single customer because the people who are quitting where loyal and actually helpful.

On a final note I like to see the announcements in advance. I doubt complaining will affect the direction they take but still at least we know what to expect in the future.

First off, even though I'm directly quoting you, most if not all of the below does not apply directly to you, i want to make that clear, allrighty?

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Originally Posted by Sarick

I think a lot of people missed the points of complaints. I think the logic is simple at this point. Like it or not ALL things are eventually going to die. You can either stand up and fight for life, lay back and die without a fight or assist in its process. What side have you chosen when you see people tell others to "Just quit!", "Stop complaining" or "lets hype it anyway?"

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I think a lot of people are rather delusional in believing their unfounded crybabying is some how this "BRAVEHEART" level justice they're fighting for against an evil dictator who laughs at their misfortune and abuses them for the lulz. But, then again, thats an opinion, as is the entirety of the above quote.

Don't get me wrong, If Diablo 3 and Sim City 5, two latest examples, taught me anything, its that the consumer NEEDS to be vocal about all the bullsh*t developers do today... But whats being shown here isn't a DRM shoved up our A**, or features being removed because their servers suck... or countless Nickle/diming... Whats happening here is real time constraints forcing content to be pushed back because they don't want to release unfinished content.

I'd personally rather wait for Moogle resort to come out, than to get it in 4 easy installments of an update each, with it being glitchy and unusable for the majority of its release time (See: Sim City 5).

But back more the point, There's a fine line between standing up for an obvious slap in the face to consumers (Always online DRM, releasing a sh*tty half finished product, RMAH integration), and crying because content got pushed back due to time restraints. If some of the complainers can't see this, this is where the problem comes up.

You're not swinging a sword leading an army to victory against a tyrannical "SE Overlord" by smashing your keyboard "WHERZ MY MOG HOWSE RESORT, YOU DEMONS".

Oh and please note, I'm not using you specifically for the examples above, just some of what I've read on here. I mean, you are really ranty and kinda like, 13% Tinfoil Hat, but you're a fair step above the basic complainers. - Also don't get me wrong, I'm ranty as sh*t when it comes to THF, and I'm probably 17% Tinfoil hat.

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You have people complaining about the loss of resources, that in turn causes a bigger negative impact.

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I'm upset as any FFXI Pl ayer about the loss of resources. But lets get real honest here for a moment. Its an 11 year old game. Even if they advertized, ain't no one wanting to play an 11 year old game. It can't do what modern MMOs can, and SE knows this... its why FFXIV Exists.

I'm not wanting to accept it, but from a practical business, and even logical standpoint, Increasing staff and money into this game is >Not< going to increase their revenue in the long run. This game is old, maybe not dying, but very old. The limitations on staff were to be expected. I'm not saying "JUST BE LUCKY WERE GETTING ANYTHING", i'm just asking you to accept the reality that with age, MMOs will slowly lose staff, as the playerbase dwindles.

Though I admit i would like to see a bit more staff, I can't blame them for their business choices, and a few of us huffing and puffing isn't going to give them more staff, if anything, enough quitting and they'll turn off the game and bring the rest of the dev team to other projects or to FFXIV, and they wont look back.

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People get on that band wagon when others say "Just quit!" and "Stop whining!" that makes people want to leave more.

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I notice we're kinda going in a circle here, but as pointed out above, theres a fine line between standing up for BS, and crying because its not as >Perfect< as you want it. Not accusing you of such, just, most posters here fall into the second category. Whinning cause its not perfect. (God knows I have done this before when it comes to THF updates, so i know where they're coming from, but i also know its unproductive and will not help)

... I won't quote you on the rest since i'd likely be talking in circles, But to make a long story short, i want you to walk away knowing this. I do believe legitimate complaints should be made, but 99% of what i read on these forums are either completely asinine, or presented so dumbly that it makes an asinine. Even the Community reps have said countless times, its easier to present complaints/issues if they can understand why you're complaining. going "I AINT PLAY NO JOB CAUSE BELLS" ... means what? Remove the bells? Recolor them? Make the animation different?

This is just an example, but the more clear and defined your complaint is, the easier it is to convey to the dev team.

Again, most of these examples likely don't apply to you.

I for one like the game,i also understand some of the frustrations ppl have for the game.That being said i really don't like the rants,if your that mad just let it go and move on,imo. I for one am excited for this release,just hope like most of us,that it will be fun,and add more excitement back in the game i play...just sayin.

Sarick, you raise some excellent points in your previous post, but (and forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you) I believe our definitions of "stand up and fight for it" may be different.

There is a big difference between constructive criticism and just spilling negative emotions. A real hero doesn't blindly slay every person near him in a battle. A real hero knows when to stay his hand. And this can be quite difficult while lost in the fog of war and riding a huge adrenaline rush.

Someone who stands up for FFXI should also know when to stay their hand and ignore the urges of their emotion. I know I've been guilty of ranting several times... I'm not perfect. But if you really do care about FFXI, find constructive ways to harness your negative emotions and use them for something positive. That's what it really means to stand up and fight.

Keep in mind that if we create an environment which unanimously hates what SE is doing to the game, we create an environment which kills the game faster than anything the devs have done.

Karbuncle and Yinnyth I've read your post and liked them. I simply can't disagree with what either of you have stated. In fact there are similarities in your comments to what I've been saying or already said in different wording. I truly want to thank you for responding. A lot of what you said backs up some of the points I made or wanted to make. I also felt the need to respond to the both of you out of respect. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable with you thinking your responses to my post went blowing to the wind.

I myself rant a lot as you probably figured out already. If you look at my post history a lot of what I say is created to envision outside the box views or create new ideas. I do try and constructively figure things out when I make complaints. To me I believe that when you have a problem before you can complain look for solutions to fix it first. If you think of something then you've invested enough thought into it you either offer a solution or explain what is upsetting you.

Sometimes this style isn't enough or is the passion behind it. It's truly in the best interest if communication reaches the movers and shakers who manage things behind the red tape. The only way to get this attention sometimes is to capture it with logical rants. As Yinnyth stated about true heros staying their hand. I agree. There can be a downside to this logic though in most situations. You see, if the hero and the defenders eyes meet face to face they'll notice each other. If the defender doesn't see the hero swinging his sword for a just cause then he/she has no reason to make a treaty or even acknowledge the heroes cause.

Karbuncle when you commented about the asinine complaints I laughed hard. I agree some of these complaints can be a bit off the loop end. I also see you acknowledge the recent trends in developers making critical mistakes or creating problems. You seem to understand that you're the customer and have a right to complain if it's a valid reason.

The situation is sort of like this... Imagine you are 8 years old. it's Christmas and you have no idea what is under the tree. You open your present and it's a set of rims and tires for your old bike. You got a new set of rims and tires and life is good.

Now imagine that instead of that surprise, your parents told you a year ahead of time that you were getting a brand new aluminum race bike for Christmas (Yay! Exciting). But then throughout the year whenever you asked for something, they would tell you they couldn't do it because they were working on getting your new bike (Slightly disappointing but probably still worth it). Then they told you that you will also have to fork out some money of your own for the bike (Okay, now I'm not so sure I want the bike). Then a week before Christmas, they tell you that you that they didn't actually get the whole bike for you. they only got the rims and tires. But, if you keep putting up with the lack of attention and the scaled back meals, they should have the whole bike for you by summer maybe. Now imagine that you desperately want to believe them, but the lingering odor in the house keeps reminding you that they still haven't come through with the indoor plumbing that they promised you by last summer so you have all been taking washcloth baths and going to the bathroom in 5 gallon buckets.


I think that strange analogy probably sums up how a lot of people feel. Knowing that someone is doing a lot of stuff that you really don't like with something that you really enjoy is bad enough. Paying them to do it really bites though. I doubt that the developers are hateful or apathetic towards their players. I doubt that they are stupid or inept. At this point I am at a complete loss as to what the disconnect is. All I know is that it can't continue like this forever. At some point someone needs to really explain to them what their decisions do to the community. Unfortunately this site is our only means of communication and so far as I can tell, the only time anyone pays attention to us is when we either have some horrible discussion that pisses them off to the point where they feel the need to moderate and / or post a response telling us to knock it off, or when they have something to say and need to post it in a place where it will be just a tad relevant.

I'm sorry that SE makes you feel like an 8-year-old. I'm sorry that 8-year-old version of yourself had to pay his own parents money. I'm sorry that the Christmas gift your parents promised you a year in advance was not delivered on time.

I'm sorry that the company you currently choose to pay makes you feel like the child of delinquent parents whom you have no choice whether or not they're your parents.

Don't worry though. Everything will be alright. Because according to your analogy, I'm your brother, and I'm ok with the Christmas gift I'm receiving, even though it's exactly the same as yours.

SE's answer to my legitimate criticisms was to delete them and ban me from the forums until now. In hindsight, I have to give them kudos for a bold and unconventional customer service technique.

The good news is I'll be saving some money not buying the expansion for my wife and myself. Great job!

Hello everyone!

Below is a follow-up from Producer Matsui in regards to questions about how relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons will be handled moving forward after Seekers of Adoulin.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Hello,

Matsui here.

We've been receiving some questions in regards to what we will be doing with relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons moving forward, so I would like to address what I can at the moment.

We are not planning to enhance relic, mythic, or empyrean weapons via Trial of the Magians or through other methods.

However, in regards to these weapons that you have enhanced up to level 99, we are formulating plans so that they do not go to waste. (Including the weapons that do not yet have their afterglows.)

In regards to the shields and instruments, even in light of the growth that will take place for characters with Adoulin equipment, these in particular are still at the highest caliber and will not be addressed in the plans mentioned above.

While I'm unable to talk about the specifics at this point in time, as soon as the time comes where I can, I will be sure to let you all know.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello everyone!

Below is a follow-up from Producer Matsui in regards to questions about how relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons will be handled moving forward after Seekers of Adoulin.

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Magian Animators, <Can I Have It?>

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While I'm unable to talk about the specifics at this point in time, as soon as the time comes where I can, I will be sure to let you all know.

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So you are going forward with the ethereal weapons? Do we need to do other things to keep the emps comparable to those new pure magic based weapons? I know your making new content but after all the work that was done to create some of these trial weapons those balances best be useful or you'll make a lot of players very unhappy.

I know there is an advantage to having magic based weapons that do 90% pure magic damage over physical attack power. Please keep the relics, mythics and empys relevant to players. I assume that we should be able to equip attachments or other gear in either a ring, earring, grip or ranged slot to empower/convert them into comparable magic damage. This way they can still compete with the new weapons.

I don't want to be forced to get a new END GAME weapon just so I can do a fight with a pickup group. You see If I only have empy they'll say YOU NEED an ethereal weapon to be a DD in this fight because this enemy resist physical damage. All our melees must have level 90+ ethereal weapons that are fully charged or we won't be able to kill it! If we can't find enough DD's with ethereals we'll replace them with mages SORRY!

Man why do I have a sick feeling in my tummy atm itemization without a real plan makes me a sad panda.....

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Originally Posted by Sarick

So you are going forward with the ethereal weapons? Do we need to do other things to keep the emps comparable to those new pure magic based weapons? I know your making new content but after all the work that was done to create some of these trial weapons those balances best be useful.

I know there is an advantage to having magic based weapons that do 90% pure magic damage over physical attack power but please keep the relics, mythics and empys relevant. I assume that we'll be able to equip attachments or other gear in either a ring, earring, grip or ranged slot to empower/convert them to magic damage. This way they can compete with the new weapons.

I don't want to be forced to get a new END GAME weapon just so I can do a fight with a pickup group. You see If I only have empy they'll say YOU NEED and ethereal weapon to be a DD in this fight because this enemy resist physical damage. All our melees must have level 90+ ethereal weapons that are fully charged or we won't be able to kill it!

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The odds of anyone else requiring you to own a line of weapons that, as far as I can tell, have been announced only in your own mind seem extremely low.

Additionally, one major reason given for Twilight Scythe's conversion into a paperweight is that Broducer Matsui wakes up each new day and hates sources of non-attribute damage more than the day before. Seeing a ton of new non-attribute damage weapons after hearing that seems unlikely.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

The odds of anyone else requiring you to own a line of weapons that, as far as I can tell, have been announced only in your own mind seem extremely low.

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They didn't announce it right, so it's still sarcastic. There is some truth here as this has been happening for a while in yells for pickup groups. Based on his quote what do you think is being planned for future gear if he was talking about other weapons not going to waste as they moved forward with new gear? Humm, he can't say yet. As noted he made changes to the twilight scythe for balance in this expansion. Anyway, that comment I made caught your attention didn't it? Maybe that was the whole point of it or maybe it wasn't. :p

Everyone thought the game would never go above the level 75 cap.
Everyone thought Blinkers would always be available for side cash.
No one imagined that they'd make it so players could sync with party members at any level.
I'm sure there are plenty of shocks in the history of this game.

Gonna have to see what the specifics of what he's planning are but this makes me pretty sad. There's a lot of REM weapons that are ALREADY useless in their current state so I don't see how he can possibly fix them without introducing some way to actually improve the stats on them.

Adjusting how some of them work (Ex Gungnir's DEF Down etc) might help some of them but it's not going to be enough to save most of the weapons that are currently useless.

Since SE are adding a DMG:140 GK with STR+8 and WSD, you damn well better enhance R/M/E GKs

It's actually skillchain damage, but if that weapon is an indication of what they're giving us right now, one can only imagine what kind of items they'll be giving to us down the road.

Shame about the SC dmg, but it still beats most variants of Amano/Koga/Masa and is more than likely much easier to get.

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Originally Posted by Beeraga

My pre-order has been cancelled and I'm about to cancel my account. I have been playing this game for over 9 years.

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Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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I find it ridiculous that people can't voice their frustrations about how SE has been fleecing us, RE: Phogg's post that was deleted (and I can attest that the post existed, I saw it). Where exactly are our monthly fees going? It's certainly not going to develop the content that was promised to us 2 years ago, and certainly not going towards the content that was being sold to us via the new expansion.

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Monthly fees go to paying the cost of maintaining servers, go to the dev team and community team's salaries (GM team, too) and the remainder goes to SE's profit margin.

And it's not surprising that SE would delete a post that apparently accused SE of dishonest practices. You don't trash talk someone on their home turf and expect a nonreaction. If you want to complain, be civil. If you can't be civil, do it somewhere else.


By the way, threatening to cancel your account is not an effective way to get what you want. Never has been, never will be.

Okay um, I'm going to have to admit to a mildly "uneasy" state in regards to a new line of (Almost certainly) easier to obtain weapons with crazy stats that have the potential to dump all over R/M/E.

I see what they're trying to do, Make it to where R/M/E aren't required... but at the same time, if they're going to dump on relics, this guy is cleverly trying to run this game into the ground, because a lot of people own a R/M/E now, and if the work they put into it is suddenly outclassed by a weapon some Aurore-F**k just got from NEWCAMPAIGN, I can't see it going over well for a lot of players.

I mean if you never got a R/M/E, congrts to your lazy a** >:I.

Anyway, I ain't super upset, I'm cautious especially considering this is the "out of box" gear and its going to go uphill from here... but... I mean, I'm still going to go into it hopeful.

Okay i lied, I'm getting a sinking upset feeling at the prospect of them making my level 99 Mandau, which was a F**king pain in the dick to complete and costs me an estimated 170~mil gil or more... A sidegrade/Slightmildupgrade to weapon a Derpbro could get in an hour.

A lot of empies outclassed relics and were significantly easier to obtain. Most people just got with the times and did what was required to get the new, best gear. I imagine this is what will happen here too.

Or heck, maybe they'll let you desynth these new weapons into shards that you can synergy onto your r/m/e to make it slightly better than the original weapon.

I'd like to say theres a fine difference between an Empyrean 99, and the items shown here.

Empyreans and relics were both designed to be super weapons, and worked out to be about even in the end... These weapons are shaping up to be "Aurore" difficulty to obtain afaik... Plus A lot of Empyrean weapons took a heap of time when they were introduced, while easier than relics, still required a solid investment. Especially now to 99 them.

I don't think any of these weapons are going to flatout outclass their relic/emp counterparts (unless they specifically suck... Gungnir/EmpPole come to mind), Just don't think as many people will just "oh well" it like you do, this is a fine difference between a new class of super weapon, and some weapon augmented through new campaign battles.

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Originally Posted by Volkai

Monthly fees go to paying the cost of maintaining servers, go to the dev team and community team's salaries (GM team, too) and the remainder goes to SE's profit margin.

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Lol that's a drop in the bucket. There's plenty of money to go around. SE is pocketing fat stacks and reinvesting the minimum. Don't kid yourself.

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Originally Posted by Volkai

And it's not surprising that SE would delete a post that apparently accused SE of dishonest practices. You don't trash talk someone on their home turf and expect a nonreaction. If you want to complain, be civil. If you can't be civil, do it somewhere else.

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Dude was civil. It's a pretty funny trick to set up a site and request that your fans leave feedback but then put in a clause that says you can ban anyone for saying anything you don't like. It's more like a yelp page where you have to pay to leave a positive review and someone has removed all the bad ones.


At any rate... be prepared for all your gear to be outdated (this is nothing new and I look forward to it). As for the E/R/M weapons, this doesn't bode well. I expect a whole bunch of half-cocked balance adjustments to weapons / weaponskills in the near future. I think I am just going to sit on the money I was saving for a relic until the dust settles.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Lol that's a drop in the bucket. There's plenty of money to go around. SE is pocketing fat stacks and reinvesting the minimum. Don't kid yourself.

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I could add to this but I had a post deleted in general when I reported unfavorable news that's all over the interwebs now and nearly everyone invested in Final Fantasy knows about it.

Lets look at it from a school grade standpoint. If You're a student and have 5 grade assignments graded as A 90%, A 92%, A+ 100%, F 15% and F 0% the overall grade is what matters in the end. If those grades are considered other projects and you combine them to create the final grade those two F's bring down the overall grade significantly.

90 + 92 + 100 + 15 + 0 = 297
Now divide that number by 5 (the number of assignments) and you get 59.4% a failing grade! In this example grades don't go negative but in the real world one project can go over budget or flop effecting other profitable projects and their resources.

What I'm trying to say is a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Even though this chain link might be holding more then it's weight elsewhere in the chain another link might have broken costing a fortune to fix or maintain. A big company that has multiple studios all use the same bank. If one project makes a profit another one can bleed those profits just as fast.

I think you know exactly whats really going on just Google this companies name with the seekers launch date March 26th. A little hint the news that will pop isn't about the Seekers launch. There is so much news about it only a blind mouse who can't read could miss it. Do some research before you assume financial investments.

BTW, I still clicked like on your post because you have a passion. I also don't think your entirely wrong. You're just not looking at the whole picture in a broad perspective.