next level break

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Yeah, no. All jobs should be possible to level to the same level. There is enough gear available in this game to put your resources into that if you want one of your jobs to be better than others.

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except when it comes to summoner, not much in the way of gear the isn't emp/relic/jse/af etc if you see the pattern here.

The fact that summoner doesn't get as much gear/weapons to differentiate itself isn't a good reason to adjust level caps overall. Summoner has far more pressing matters to deal with anyways (new avatars being delayed, ja delays, terrible DoT damage, etc.)

I wouldn't want to be Level 99 forever. However, I agree that now is not the time to raise the bar yet, as the world would not support it. Come time for a level 100-110 though, I wish those levels would begin to matter more. It's pretty dumb how little our max HP has raised since 75, for example (And seriously, why do Robber Crabs and Dire Bats aggro a level 99? The world sees us as glorified 75s, this needs to change).

Robber Crabs & stuff aggro for a good reason, the game isn't built for lv99s, its built for 75s. If lv75 mobs did not aggro us, nothing would, the game would lose any and all sense of danger when traveling instantly. However at the same time, cant say its threatening, most 75 mobs can be dealt with without effort, run through zones chaining aggro for no reason but to get from point A to B because mobs cant hurt/kill you.

The only reason lv 56s are still EP is for trial of the magians. Which SE kind of cornered themselves on unless they allow TW mobs to count towards trials, or go through each trial and make sure there's lv appropriate mobs for lv 99.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Legitimate reason? What would even count as an illegitimate reason?

A desire to become stronger sounds like a legitimate reason to me. Was there a legitimate reason to stop the level at 75 earlier? FF1 only went to level 50, FF2 didn't have levels, FF5's job levels had no common "cap", while base levels capped at 99, FF8 went to Lv100, FF10 and 13 didn't have traditional levels at all.

Letting FF11 go to level 143 would be just as legitimate as level 75 or 99.

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Let's put it this way, then, I think level 99 is just fine for the cap right now. But I would support a new cap in a couple of years.

Well, there are plenty of ways to make people stronger except gear and levels.

Spells, job abilities, job traits and weaponskills could be unlocked through a series of quests, for example. This could open up for more variety in the ways different jobs grew stronger, allowing SE to tailor quests to feel unique for the specific jobs they are made for.

Then there is also the possibility of a whole new bunch of lv99 merits in the new area. I'm sure you don't disagree with me if I say a lv99 with 0 merits and a lv99 with a few million limit points put into merits would perform very differently in battle. If we get even more job specific and general super-merits that were made with the power of a lv99 in mind, we could see a very significant increase in power from that as well.

What I'm having in mind as potential new merits are things like recast and/or potency for many of the new abilities, spells and traits gained between the implementation of the current merits and now. For sam, skillchain bonus effect, for example, and konzen ittai recast.


Personally, I would welcome a change in character strength progression away from the "grind same mob forever" shit we have now. I'm just not sure if I can trust SE with the task of making a system like that that actually works for all jobs for the remainder of the game's lifetime.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

So the majority, except over half of the players is what you really mean?

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Do you have any solid proof or statistics to prove that over 50% of player that fits above description doesn't have relic/empy(and not a mule/alt)? Because over half of the players I know that fits above description has one. And that includes my social/none event LS. Some ppl keep insisting that empy/relic majority of player(playing on and off doesn't count, main other jobs doesn't count) can't get one, but if that's true, where did all those none-relic/empy player goes as I rarely see anyone who main DD job that benefits a lot from relic/empy doesn't have one. All the players who doesn't have one that I know of, is either been playing on and off(like log in once every week), returnering player or new player, or playing a job such as SAM DRK DRG which doesn't really need one to have acceptable performance, or focus on mage job and doesn't care about DD. Even some very casual player have at least 1, since they often just log on and lowman abby or solo dyna.

Again, if the number of empy/relic owner is as low as you claimed, where did all those ppl go?

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Originally Posted by Afania

How about I change another way to say it.

Majority of player who
1. Isn't new.

2. Not returning player.

3. Been consistantly playing for past 1~2 years without quitting/taking a break, nor log in once every 3 weeks etc.(If you only log on every 3 weeks it doesn't count and so on)

4. Focus on one job instead of having 20 jobs.

5. Plays a DD job that largely benefits from relic/empy such as WAR MNK, instead of jobs like SAM DRK which you can use other weapons.

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This list of "excluding blah blah blah" is what that remark was directed at, you limited the amount, it stopped being "most people" and started being "most people who are not blah blah blah, and do not do blah blah blah" in which case, your right. Most people who have been playing the last 2 years without stop & focus on a few select jobs rather than trying out everything probably have these, not all. However when looking at the general player base, and then asking about Relic/Emp, most players do not. You said "Because over half of the players I know that fits above description has one." I have 2 friends who I know have played the game for more than 7 years, 1 has a Masa he got about 2~3 months ago, the other is just about to finish a Kannagi, many others in my ls either have one at the Abyssea NM stage, or have none at all. Few of them are new, fewer are returning, and almost none of them are on so little, or play every job.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

This list of "excluding blah blah blah" is what that remark was directed at, you limited the amount, it stopped being "most people" and started being "most people who are not blah blah blah, and do not do blah blah blah" in which case, your right. Most people who have been playing the last 2 years without stop & focus on a few select jobs rather than trying out everything probably have these, not all. However when looking at the general player base, and then asking about Relic/Emp, most players do not. You said "Because over half of the players I know that fits above description has one." I have 2 friends who I know have played the game for more than 7 years, 1 has a Masa he got about 2~3 months ago, the other is just about to finish a Kannagi, many others in my ls either have one at the Abyssea NM stage, or have none at all. Few of them are new, fewer are returning, and almost none of them are on so little, or play every job.

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They posted "majority of player doesn't have relic/empy" as a problem for specialization, but for the ppl I exclude, it isn't that big of a problem.

If someone is new/returning player, is it really that much of a big deal that you don't get invited to VW as DD?

If I'm going to a completely new MMO, the first thing I will be worry about, is to lv up, and get the story done. I only worry about gear/endgame content once I'm done with everything.

Endgame content that requires repeatitive grind is for those who already done everything else, to keep players around so the game won't be dead.

A new/returning player wouldn't even need to worry about getting an invite to endgame content when they already have something else to do. If you just got your 1st job 99, haven't beat CoP, haven't experience Abyssea, haven't get SJ done, haven't done almost everything else, why do you worry about not getting invite on VW/legion?

In other MMOs, endgame content are in tiers. You do lower tier to get gear so you have performance to do higher tiers. I see no problem if returning player/new player don't get invite to lv 99 endgame pts.

If newer player/returning player already run out of things to do and still don't get invite, maybe that'd be a problem. But atm this isn't a big problem at all.


If you don't have relic/empy because you play on and off, is that a problem too? I know many ppl who only log in once every 1~2 weeks, to chat and just for no reason except missing FFXI and it's ppl. However, if you only log on every once 1~2 weeks just to chat but not make progress, that also means you have no desire to deeply involved in this game.

So if you're not really attached but only log on to chat, fat chances are endgame gear grind won't be very attractive to this type of player too. Endgame gear grind is only attractive to those player who is already attached/addicted. For those who come and go, they aren't interested in doing it often to begin with.

If your job doesn't need relic/empy to have proper performance and just stick with magian, that means you will still get invite with those weapons and don't need relic/empy. So why is this a problem? Last Legion run my OAT DRK actually outparsed Masa 99 SAM, so it isn't a big problem at all if your DD has the ability to deal good dmg without relic/empy when they will get invite without it?

If you choose to put priority and resource on your mage jobs because you're mage main and love mages, then you will still get invite on mages, why is it a problem if your main/favorite job gets invite and jobs you don't care/love doesn't get invite? You choose not to care about DD job to begin with, and you're not happy that your DD job doesn't get invite? That's ironic.

If you're 20 jobs player, don't focus on 1 job but have all 20 jobs and none of them stands out, it's still easy to get invite to fill up the party spot based on what they need. So why is it a problem for this kind of player not having relic/empy? They will get a spot anyways. And if all your 20 jobs are equally geared, fat chances are you probably don't have strong perference on 1 specific job, so not getting spot for 1 of the job out of 20 probably isn't that much of a big deal too no?

I fail to see what's the big deal in terms of specialization. You get invite on your best geared/favorite job, nothing wrong with that. Probably more of a problem if there are no specialization and every player has 20 jobs leveled/equally geared and often are forced to play their least favorite job.

I main RDM, I play DRK, WHM, BLU, SCH, and the occasional other job, because RDM is wanted for nearly nothing. If I am forced to pick certain jobs to goto a higher level, it would likely come to this list of priority for me right now.
1) DRK
2) SCH
3) RDM

I main RDM, why is my list like this? Because these are the jobs I get to play in events. As much as I love my RDM, I would have to pick it 3rd because unless my DRK is going to events, my RDM is getting no new gear, no new things to make it grow, it is worthless to me at lv100.

"You get invite on your best geared/favorite job" Since when, I would get invited as RDM to endgame as much then, as I do now, oh wait, thats almost never! Making specialized things for jobs as you suggest is just another way to make people put more into jobs they rather not, instead of jobs they want to.

Want an Example we already have in place? Merit WSs, I want Upheaval, I like WAR, I have been gearing it better, I don't always want to have to use Raging Rush. At the same time, I main RDM, and made Excalibur, Requiescat is a near must for me, without it my Relic would lose alot of its use when you think about me having an Almace as well. Resolution is another must have WS, why? Because its that strong, I geared up my DRK alot, I can tell you for sure, if I were to goto a VW party & start using something besides Resolution(mind you, no Emp/Relic) I would be kicked instantly. I also play SAM, but have no Masa, guess what that means? In these things I have had to give up having fun on some jobs I like in order to have efficiency, and power, on jobs I need to go for events, limiting the power of my jobs I like, and instead forcing me to put power into jobs I either do not like, or do not care to "specialize" in.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

As others have said, making it some sort of inconsequential thing (Like, say, a visual glow effect like from Afterglow for a job of your choice) is the only way this would work

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Sadly, I agree that this is the only way it would work (as much as I would like otherwise). Some people are too focused on numbers that they would be offended if some guy who chose his main job was able to do 1001 dmg instead of their "gimped" 1000. I wish there was some way to distinguish your main job, but a visual change is the only one that would work.

Sure, some people don't care enough about having a main job, but I personally feel a little punch in the gut when I run across a blu that doesn't have all their spells. (And I am actually embarrassed that I'm still 2 unbridled spells away from having them all)

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

"You get invite on your best geared/favorite job" Since when, I would get invited as RDM to endgame as much then, as I do now, oh wait, thats almost never! Making specialized things for jobs as you suggest is just another way to make people put more into jobs they rather not, instead of jobs they want to.

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I look for good/skilled RDM for legion event since day 1. Just because you don't do legion doens't mean other ppl isn't looking for RDM. I'm totally willing to take a career RDM to my group over an average DD or ppl with 20 job leveled but nothing stands out, just because skilled RDM is really hard to find.


If everyone all have 20 job leveled and equally geared, players won't be able to "main" any job anymore because only the player that has more jobs at 99 will be useful. What's the point to invite a career RDM or career DRK to pt when I can just get random player with 20 jobs to pt? And what's the point to "main" a job in this game if you can just level more jobs and be more useful? I know many players that dedicated entire time in XI just to be good at one job, and got extremely good at it. It wouldn't make sense if everyone else with more jobs leveled all play that job as well, forcing all those career players lv another job just to compete with other players with more jobs.

I'm not saying you can't have 20 jobs leveled, there are certainly some advantage by doing so, but you should also get appropriate disadvantage too, so does the one who spend entire time to specialize 1 job. Ppl should have an option to choose to be versatile or specialized, not just force everyone be versatile while gaining no advantage to focus on one job.

I have an advantage over anyone who levels RDM just to level another job. I assure you that nearly any RDM who does not main the job, or think of it as one of their favorite jobs, will not have half of the gear or gear sets I have. Most probably have cure potency, nuking, and enfeebling, maybe a bit more on the side like Enhancing, where as I have 9 gear sets, from TPing to Stoneskin, this gives me an advantage over those others who level it for the sake of leveling. Their disadvantage is they do not know the job as well as I do, or the gear to play it as I do. I need no level 100 to make me stand out and above others, nor do I want such a thing, infact as I have tried to make apparent, I find it rather bad for my job, if such a thing were introduced to the game, because I think it would force me into using it on jobs I rather not, for the sake of utility, and furthering my true goal.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Well, there are plenty of ways to make people stronger except gear and levels.

Spells, job abilities, job traits and weaponskills could be unlocked through a series of quests, for example. This could open up for more variety in the ways different jobs grew stronger, allowing SE to tailor quests to feel unique for the specific jobs they are made for.

Then there is also the possibility of a whole new bunch of lv99 merits in the new area. I'm sure you don't disagree with me if I say a lv99 with 0 merits and a lv99 with a few million limit points put into merits would perform very differently in battle. If we get even more job specific and general super-merits that were made with the power of a lv99 in mind, we could see a very significant increase in power from that as well.

What I'm having in mind as potential new merits are things like recast and/or potency for many of the new abilities, spells and traits gained between the implementation of the current merits and now. For sam, skillchain bonus effect, for example, and konzen ittai recast.


Personally, I would welcome a change in character strength progression away from the "grind same mob forever" shit we have now. I'm just not sure if I can trust SE with the task of making a system like that that actually works for all jobs for the remainder of the game's lifetime.

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i actually liked where this was going, like with the avatar merit attacks you can have all unlocked and take one of your choice to lvl 5, this is the kind of thing i want in the game, something that would allow players to show a more specific and personal "flavor" if you would for their job. I personally didn't think of adding a whole new merit set(s) or even quests. I would welcome it. In the past i suggested a way to "upgrade" the avatars like titan would get sharper looking stone look or even diamond clad armor.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Well, there are plenty of ways to make people stronger except gear and levels.

Spells, job abilities, job traits and weaponskills could be unlocked through a series of quests, for example. This could open up for more variety in the ways different jobs grew stronger, allowing SE to tailor quests to feel unique for the specific jobs they are made for.

Then there is also the possibility of a whole new bunch of lv99 merits in the new area. I'm sure you don't disagree with me if I say a lv99 with 0 merits and a lv99 with a few million limit points put into merits would perform very differently in battle. If we get even more job specific and general super-merits that were made with the power of a lv99 in mind, we could see a very significant increase in power from that as well.

What I'm having in mind as potential new merits are things like recast and/or potency for many of the new abilities, spells and traits gained between the implementation of the current merits and now. For sam, skillchain bonus effect, for example, and konzen ittai recast.


Personally, I would welcome a change in character strength progression away from the "grind same mob forever" shit we have now. I'm just not sure if I can trust SE with the task of making a system like that that actually works for all jobs for the remainder of the game's lifetime.

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I actually like this idea better than increasing caps at this time. Why don't people talk about lvl 99 tier three and four merits?

I didnt read most of this thread but what happened was the community/dev team asked in these very forums if we would like to go to 99 or 100. Most said 99 cause it is the classic cap in most FF games i believe. Im partial to both choices myself, and i miss the opportunity to have level 50 abilities and traits. Im sure the decision wasnt entirely based on the vote but I think it may have made a dent in the decision.

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Originally Posted by Dudelsack

lvl 255 can you hear me ?

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Has any Square Soft or SE game had a cap past lvl100?