Final Fantasy XI PS3 Version

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Originally Posted by oliveira

Ha ! With the dire security situation the PS3 is at the moment I wonder if they will still release FFXIV for it.

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I don't see why not.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I don't see why not.

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because the ps3 has been hacked like the psp. You can now get custom firmware and just download iso's and play them.

And that magically gives you a free functioning FF14 server login?

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Originally Posted by Mirage

And that magically gives you a free functioning FF14 server login?

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for someone who bought the pc version already yes.

You can't do this on PS2 with a pirated version of the game. What makes you sure it would work on PS3?

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Originally Posted by Mirage

You can't do this on PS2 with a pirated version of the game. What makes you sure it would work on PS3?

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I never said I was sure about anything there is a possibility that the iso wouldn't allow players to log in and yet there is still the possibillity it will. now here is the thing is Square willing to take the risk that could possibly lose them even more money on ff14?

By that logic, no one would release regular games for PS3 either, and not for 360 or Wii either. All of those are cracked wide open as well.

In fact, the risk is lower for FF14 than for other games, because it will get the vast majority of the revenue from monthly fees, not the initial purchase. Someone pirating FF14 for so to use it with their already legally bought PC version would be an insignificant loss to them. The potential loss from people pirating FF13 is much greater, yet they still released that, and still will release FF13-3 (how ridiculous that game will be is a different discussion entirely :p).

If it was possible to get around the need to have a legit account to play FF14, people would have done that on the PC version already, same with FF11, and every other pay to play MMO in existence.

The danger of FF14 getting pirated on PS3 is at best exactly as great as the danger of FF14 being pirated on PC.

Really the fact they are investing in FFXIII still is a show that they just don't know what they are doing anymore. I liked FFXIII & I still wish they didn't make -2 just because with all bad rep the game had they were better off leaving it alone, but a 3rd? Thats just stupid.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Really the fact they are investing in FFXIII still is a show that they just don't know what they are doing anymore. I liked FFXIII & I still wish they didn't make -2 just because with all bad rep the game had they were better off leaving it alone, but a 3rd? Thats just stupid.

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Remember they announced "Final Fantasy VS XIII"... then forgot about it. Now there's "Lighting Returns:FFXIII"

WTF!

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Besides FFXI, you can see where they're putting all their hard time, money and effort!

Its honestly like they are trying to take games that become media flops & redeem them with remakes & sequels. FFXIII was made to sound like a bad FF game, as such it gets 2 sequels to make it better. I like the 2nd, Ill possibly like the 3rd, but it doesn't mean I think it was a good idea for them. FFXIV was the same way, it popped out as a massive flop, they went back & redid the game, and now are re-releasing it, after basically rebuilding the game. What about 15? What about vs13? The world may never know, probably a little bit away because of these, then again, I cant complain, even if they aren't what I would do they are trying to clean up their messes & make them good, which is at least good in theory.

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

because the ps3 has been hacked like the psp. You can now get custom firmware and just download iso's and play them.

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I was thinking more with "cheating" in mind instead of "piracy".

@Mirage
Oh and FYI there's no such thing as "pirated FFXI on PS2" because the HDD DNAS protection is vicious and the simple glimpse of modchip patching code on the PS2 memory makes PlayOnline freeze on a black screen at boot. Also you can't get the discs to install with a modchip on the PS2. If you can't install original discs with a modchip installed, trying to install copies with a modchip is moot point as you can't boot the copies without a mod chip... (lol it's the egg before chicken dilemma, no ?) :)

So no, there's no such thing as people playing FFXI on the PS2 with pirated copies.

I know there isn't. That was kind of my point.

There is a lot of hacking and cracking that works when you're only playing offline games. When you need to verify your game up against a constantly updated server, however, it's not as simple to get around the security as it is when you have direct physical access to the system.

FF14 is going to ask the pirated game "yeah well, where is your game key again?" and then proceed to not give you access. If you already have an account for the PC version, SE is either not going to give a damn, because they make the significant part of their revenue from the monthly fees anyway.

Alternatively, if they do care a lot about the initial PS3 sales, it would be simple to supply another product key with the PS3 version, and require an account that is meant to be usable by both PS3 and PC clients to be registered with both PS3 and PC product keys.

Now when you try to connect with the pirated PS3 client, by using an account that only has a PC product code, the server will be all "cool, you bought the game for the PC, now where's that fancy PS3 registration code again?" and then proceed to not let you log in.

As long as SE's game servers themselves aren't hacked, no one is going to be playing without paying SE what they want you to pay, no matter how ultra super turbo extremely hacked your console is.

We already know they will REQUIRE a separated license key for each platform (The SE account website does imply that very subtly when you create your contents) regardless of your character data.

If you knew that, why did you even bring up that you doubt there will even be a PS3 version?

If that is confirmed, there is no way a hacked PS3 would let anyone play without buying the game for PS3, after all.

I'm however not sure if "imply very subtly" is the same as a confirmation.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

If you knew that, why did you even bring up that you doubt there will even be a PS3 version?

If that is confirmed, there is no way a hacked PS3 would let anyone play without buying the game for PS3, after all.

I'm however not sure if "imply very subtly" is the same as a confirmation.

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You did not understand what I said, did you ? I said there are CHEAT ENGINES out for the PS3 and they DO WORK on SEN.

And you're not understanding what I'm saying. FF14 won't be utilizing SEN, it will be utilizing SE's own authentication servers, and these servers will not let you in without a legit product key, like the one you needed to register your FF11 account with.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

And you're not understanding what I'm saying. FF14 won't be utilizing SEN, it will be utilizing SE's own authentication servers, and these servers will not let you in without a legit product key, like the one you needed to register your FF11 account with.

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You that are purposely ignoring the fact that I am saying people will trojan the console and hack the game regardless of it using SEN or not to be played.

They should just go with free to play honestly, I mean it seems like they are adopting this strategy with the IOs apps, giving it to you for free and then nickel and dime you for premium price if you want the full experience. Resulting in some of the most expensive IOs games ever released. Which probably not a bad idea, since we can pick and choose which additional content we want to access. Certainly most of us will not even care about Legion, Neo Nyzul, Neo Einherjar, Neo Limbus, and Meeble Burrows and probably would save tons of money if it were free to play and just pick the contents you like to do the most. This also force them to actually make a good sellable contents and not half ass attempt at creating hold over type of contents. Bad contents = low sales.

Personally would like a FFXI Mac OSX version. Rather not separate the HD out for a windows partition just to play FFXI on my laptop.

We are lucky they still making the Xbox version.... If they are not even porting it to PS3 and WiiU, or Vita or DS3, chances are they are not porting it anywhere but keep it as PC version only - and Xbox +PS2 (in japan only).

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Originally Posted by oliveira

You that are purposely ignoring the fact that I am saying people will trojan the console and hack the game regardless of it using SEN or not to be played.

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How exactly is the risk of this happening any greater than it is with the PC client of the game? You don't need to circumvent any security measures in the operating system or hardware of your PC to do the same to the FF14 client.

You've already got full access to it, and any FF14 client hacking could be done with a piece of software alone, no need to change firmware or anything like you'd need to on a PS3. How exactly is the PS3 client for FF14 at a greater risk of getting hacked than the PC version of the client?

There's no reason why the risk of this happening on the PS3 would stop them from releasing it for the PS3, when the same risk exists for the PC client, yet they are definitely making it for that platform.

Now if you know something that I don't know about this that would make me wrong, you should bring that up, because I'll admit to being wrong if that was the case. So far, however, there's nothing of what you've written that would indicate that the PS3 client is at a great risk of getting hacked compared to the PC client, and nothing that would make it likely for SE to not release a PS3 client.

The problem on closed platforms such as the PS3 is that the game companies rely on the security provided by the system itself. On Windows even the data files are somehow encrypted, memory is isolated, processes are concealed or at best the game can complain about a debugger being loaded on memory while the game is run. On a console that kind of protection isn't available as it's not needed (a legitimate console will only accept signed code).

PS3 had all of it's older private signing keys made publicly available, which ruins the security for the platform. SONY responded by whitelisting things that were signed with the compromised keys, making it impossible to use the leaked keys to sign new stuff that would be accepted by the PS3 OS.

Now that the last bastion of security on the PS3 OS fell apart, hackers could put malicious code (cheat engine) on the OS kernel and take control of the game process.

The argument is:

What is the point of going through the hassle of supporting the PS3 now that it will risk the product (game) of more hacking, the PS3 will be scrapped soon enough (It will be dead in two years from now since it has been completely hacked) as it became the next PSP and SONY already has a platform almost ready to replace it ?

What you think ?

PS3 version of the game would be nice

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Originally Posted by oliveira

The problem on closed platforms such as the PS3 is that the game companies rely on the security provided by the system itself. On Windows even the data files are somehow encrypted, memory is isolated, processes are concealed or at best the game can complain about a debugger being loaded on memory while the game is run. On a console that kind of protection isn't available as it's not needed (a legitimate console will only accept signed code).

PS3 had all of it's older private signing keys made publicly available, which ruins the security for the platform. SONY responded by whitelisting things that were signed with the compromised keys, making it impossible to use the leaked keys to sign new stuff that would be accepted by the PS3 OS.

Now that the last bastion of security on the PS3 OS fell apart, hackers could put malicious code (cheat engine) on the OS kernel and take control of the game process.

The argument is:

What is the point of going through the hassle of supporting the PS3 now that it will risk the product (game) of more hacking, the PS3 will be scrapped soon enough (It will be dead in two years from now since it has been completely hacked) as it became the next PSP and SONY already has a platform almost ready to replace it ?

What you think ?

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I think they'll release it as planned.

You say the sort of protection the PC version gets isn't available on PS3 because it has never been needed before. Now that it is needed, isn't is possible that they will implement the same security measures on the PS3 version as they did on the PC version.

I also think that if the PS3 is dead within two years, it's more because it's already an 8 year old console at that point, and therefore near the end of its life cycle and ready to be replaced regardless of the security situation.

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Originally Posted by oliveira

What is the point of going through the hassle of supporting the PS3 now that it will risk the product (game) of more hacking, the PS3 will be scrapped soon enough (It will be dead in two years from now since it has been completely hacked) as it became the next PSP and SONY already has a platform almost ready to replace it ?What you think ?

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Security isn't an issue with the PS3. Sure you can hack it. You can hack anything. But if you are going to hack something, hack the platform that's the most open (i.e. Windows). I don't understand what you are saying at all.

A while back SE, stated they liked the idea off FFXI running on the PSP Vita. Seeing how Sony is losing money on VITA's as is, I doubt we'll ever see PS3 or PSPV version. Too bad, I'd love to play FFXI on a handheld.

When Treasures was getting ready to come out (also XI on the Xbox) there was an interview where someone asked if XI would ever be released on the Wii and PS3. I can't remember the excuse for the Wii but they said for the PS3 that porting the PS2 version to PS3 would have been too difficult and they would basically have to start from scratch and if they were to ever do that they would want it to be a new game which is how we ended up with XIV instead.

For the Wii, it was because of the Friend Codes system that they weren't able to bring XI to it. A USB hard drive would've been the solution for XI's install.

They will rebuilt and give us FFXI A Realm Reborn Again if FF14 is fail spectacularly again. They probably just use existing FF14 engine and "reappropriate" it for FF11. So if you want FF11 for the whatever console system being launched next, you know what to do, keep supporting the game, and just don't bother with FF14.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

THE RAPTURE IS COMING LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!

We have been hearing this <blank> for years. Enough already with the prophecies.
Someone might actually take them seriously, look at the people who prepared for the Mayan 2012 garbage.

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The games population has been dropping, not increasing so yes the game will eventually die. That is a fact.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

The Devs are not putting out bad content.

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Compared to every other MMO on the planet? Yes, they are. All they are doing is re-releasing the old content with old fights we already fought and in some cases, throwing the garbage stagger system in (which makes it EASIER) to try to force people to bring every job. The content in this game is nothing compared to what it used to be.

This game was far superior at level 75 cap than it is now. FFXI also had a much larger population back then. If the game's content was getting better the population wouldn't be going down as frequently as it is and would be quite steady.

You can't use the excuse "The game is 10 years old" WoW is 8 years old, and its only going down in population due to the multiple clones it has.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

A lot of the good ideas take a lot of time reworking the spaghetti code that is FFXI. They have to pick and choose what merits an immense time sink and what does not as well as factoring in their own plans.

As for the rest of the ideas from the player base. Have you ever put yourself in their position? They are not Santa Clause Ltd. and they have wishes being thrown at them everyday. On top of that you have the ideas that are subjective that the community splits down the line about and argue over.

But, yes there are just some things they will not listen to. That is not to say it is a good thing or bad thing though.

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That right there is the fault of Tanaka. They have to rebuild FFXIV from the ground up because he screwed the games code up that badly.

Tanaka should have NEVER been in charge of a MMO. He not once, ever listened to what the community asked for or suggested. It took him over 5 years to put moogles in Selbina, you can not tell me that is hard to do when they are just exact copies of the ones in Kazham. I can tell you for a fact it isn't hard to do, at all. A successful MMO developer takes suggestions into serious consideration but the FFXI development team thinks everything they do is perfect and that they can't go wrong.

They started going terribly wrong when abyssea was launched. It got even worse when voidwatch came out. So much to the point a lot of people actually liked the broken game, FFXIV MORE than FFXI.

The end of the story is, if they don't listen to their players the game will die sooner then it could if they start listening. (For example everyone knows the new RDM ability coming out is total trash and SE is once again ignoring it).

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

We live in a world where people do not even want to turn their lights on anymore. What do you expect?

This game is not hard to learn and play. Personally I find the community to be kind and giving to those who actually put in the effort. If you are someone who just wants to shout a question in PJ you can easily look up (the most frequent scenario) then no the community will not treat you nicely. If you shout for help for hours with something you can easily do by yourself then once again the community will not be that nice to you.

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Wrong again. My entire time playing this game I have helped people out regardless of if I would get anything out of it. I went out of my way to help those that needed it. What happened when I needed help, very few replied. Very few people even bother helping people when there is nothing in it for them. Maybe you paid them? Then again that would mean they are getting something out of it.

Regardless of how much effort someone puts in people are only nice to you and help you for the most part when they get something out of it. I'd say for every 10 people, maybe 1-2 of them are willing to help out and the rest couldn't care less about others.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

We have a lot of what I have started dubbing Wall-E players out there. Riding in their chairs, being served, not having to do a thing, and expecting things to be done for them.

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Funny, those are the exact same people who are making it in this game due to the lack of needing to know anything.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

They do not:
*Put in research into this elaborate game.

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1) New players generally want to try the game out, not study for hours before hand, this isn't school or a job, people play these games to get away from those. So your first point is flawed beyond belief and only proves your arrogance and self-centered attitude.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

*Put any effort into becoming a team player (or even any real effort into their own characters development in all honesty).

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This game stopped having a high requirement on this when the level cap was raised to 80. This is FFXI for dummies compared to the good old days. I wonder if you even finished CoP before they removed the level restrictions. THAT took teamwork. If you didn't then you have no right talking about being a "team player".

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

*Get upset when they want more out of the game than they can from their lack of time to play.

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People want to be able to get the most out of their game time, not sit there in Jeuno begging for help from those that won't give it or waiting for a shout for the content they need.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

*Get upset when others do not want to play with them because (in addition to bullet one and two) they have developed their own opinions bereft of any actual data. Then get an attitude on top of that.

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From what I see, you're off in bullet one and two yourself. Irrationally thinking to serve your own views and ideas opposed to REAL data composed from people who have quit this game after recent attempts, one of the biggest complaints is that the community isn't very friendly, Far less friendly then in other MMOs. Which proves your entire statement incorrect and also proves you yourself do not follow data either.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

*Go complain that because of failing to do bullet one and two that things should change to conform to their world.

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If people hate a game or stop having fun, they quit. If people love a game or want it to be improved when they see something wrong they give an opinion or "complain" as you call it.

Its how MMORPGs work in the world today, its not the dev team is perfect, they aren't. All the successful MMOs in the world take player feedback and seriously look at it. The way FFXI's dev team handles things makes people feel like everything they say gets thrown in the trash which generates frustration.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

*When people give them <blank> about it because of their ranting and raving they get even more attitude about the community (you know as I write this a player who starts with an 'R' and rhymes with Sh-moe-Sh-mina comes to night) and eventually place the blame on the community.

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The community is to blame for quite a few things. The perception of FFXI from other MMO players is we're all stuck-up, serious, boring drones who follow this game because of the company that owns it and its title. They think we accept every decision the dev team makes without even debating against it.

This opinion isn't formed from people who haven't played the game mind you, its from past players that quit due to the refusal from the dev team to listen to the community.

The other problem is they think we're all too self-centered to help someone out when they need it. There is nothing wrong with helping someone, there IS something wrong when you turn a blind eye to those in need.

When a group of people treat you badly, do you look up to them? I bet you don't. Therefore when the community acts how it does to a group of people I'd say they have reason enough to look to the community with resentment. Its simple human emotion, you should try it sometime.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

*Decide they are sick of not having things the way they want, place some blame, complain, and quit.

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Most people quit because the development team has been going nowhere and has no path for this game.

Lets face it, Abyssea was released and the level cap increase was announced for around the same time as FFXIV's launch. They were both there because SE didn't want to lose FFXI's subscribers to FFXIV(in the case it worked out which it didn't)

And now FFXIV is being remade and relaunched, looking to be a far superior game to FFXI so far from what I have seen. When they announced "FFXIV: "A Realm Reborn" They announced the new FFXI expansion.

I guess you didn't pick up on this pattern, did you? Lets face it all the current content was only made in attempts to keep mindless gear farmers playing so they could continue to get our subscription fee.

In the past 2 years in terms of development and content, the REAL Final Fantasy fans have gotten cast aside so they could cater to gear farmers. This game has little to no depth to it anymore and less then 75% the skill that you needed when 75 was the cap. No new storyline to speak of(Nothing worthy of being called a final fantasy) which is what makes a final fantasy what it is. What little was given to us could be easily outdone by anything before. Even some FPS games have a better storyline then everything FFXI has past A crystalline prophecy.

You sir are what is wrong with the Final Fantasy community as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

They will rebuilt and give us FFXI A Realm Reborn Again if FF14 is fail spectacularly again. They probably just use existing FF14 engine and "reappropriate" it for FF11. So if you want FF11 for the whatever console system being launched next, you know what to do, keep supporting the game, and just don't bother with FF14.

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I don't think FFXIV will fail this time, not with the positive reviews and feedback everyones been giving it. It may even put another nail in FFXI's coffin unless the FFXI dev team smartens up.

They should do to this game what they're doing to XIV and give it a complete overhaul. Can't use the excuse of "what about PS2?" anymore since they are being left out of the new expansion anyway. They could keep a few servers of old XI up for them and anyone else who decides they don't want to transfer over but a complete overhaul to the game on par with XIV would do more good than bad for it especially since Tanaka is out of the picture now. Besides after watching the End of an Era trailer it got me thinking something similar but just as awesome could happen to Vanadiel.

Actually, the PS2 is still being supported for Seekers of Adoulin, just only in Japan. It was said that the user base for the PS2 in all other regions wasn't big enough to justify a release for that platform in the regions in question.

As for me, I want to know how Sony manages to release the "PS2 Classics" software on the PS Store. It is noted that for PSone and PS2 software that is selected on the store for purchase that the software was copied and altered slightly for play on the PS3; as such there may be problems with multi-player functionality, use of memory cards and other extraneous items.

If the method in doing this can be done to FFXI's PS2 version, then I would like to see it released on the PS Store as a "PS2 Classic"; I think that's better than an actual "PSN Exclusive" or "PSN game"; there are differences between the two, such as supported HD, achievements, etc. PSN Exclusives are built from the ground up, in most cases if it is a port from another network like Steam or Xbox Live, and PSN games are re-optimized for the PS3 (these 2 are not to be confused with actual PS3 games, as they are just digital and are just retail games uploaded to PSN). As such, it would probably be less work-intensive to just release the game as a "PS2 Classic".

However, if the PS2 Classics are actually optimized in the same way these other 2 types of games are, then I guess FFXI will probably be bound by its coding/engine forever until it either is shut down due to inactivity and/or SE thinks otherwise. I, for one, think that Steam was a good step in the right direction for XI to get more footing into the PC digital gaming world. Now, if only it could have a starting step into the console digital world, maybe we might see this game thrive once more or at least see more activity than what we see now.

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Originally Posted by Luso

As for me, I want to know how Sony manages to release the "PS2 Classics" software on the PS Store. It is noted that for PSone and PS2 software that is selected on the store for purchase that the software was copied and altered slightly for play on the PS3; as such there may be problems with multi-player functionality, use of memory cards and other extraneous items.

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Actually that's a excuse to prevent people from using old retail discs (which can be bought used for "pennies" from stores such a Gamestop) on the PS3. They instead sell the games with HEAVY DRM on their online service and charge for them again. Even if it's a fraction of what the game used to cost when new, they're getting something out of it. They would get nothing from just enabling full back compatibility. Basically that limitation is artificially induced to maintain control over the access of the said feature. Releasing FFXI on such format would require SE to shell out money for SONY and I honestly don't see that happen.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

You can(But you shouldn't because it's slower.) use a controler on PC. Not only that, you can output your PC to a TV. You now have the same thing, only with 10x the prossessing power and better graphics.

On the topic at hand, I'm still pretty sure I saw somewhere that SE gave a rather deffinate no to FFXI on the PS3.

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you must be getting some seriously crappy controllers if you think they are slower, seriously the PC has some of the best game controllers available for it, including PS3 and xb360 controllers, as well as some really good others

and it was SONY that killed the possibility of FFXI for the PS3 not SE

Just saying sony isn't true, they pissed each other off. They need to kiss and make up.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Just saying sony isn't true, they pissed each other off. They need to kiss and make up.

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SONY said no to FFXI on PS3, and I'm pretty sure they have to say yes for the game to be licensed for the system, it is possible that SONY is saying no because SE doesn't want to revamp the interface for it, somehow I doubt the 2 of them kissing and making up will change the stance SE has on revamping the interface for FFXI

All of that of course is true, but the two of them still need to fix the current rectal-cranial inversions that they have going on. lol

from what I read about ffxi for ps3 the person that was incharge of getting converted into a HD version on the sony side left and then talks between the 2 companies broke down to the point that one says it was the others fault for not getting it off the ground. I don't think it'll ever happen unless the devs decide to completely redo the game code and re launch the game as a 2.0 model , but since FFXIV is coming to the system FFXI will continue to waste away till no one plays it ever again.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

All of that of course is true, but the two of them still need to fix the current rectal-cranial inversions that they have going on. lol

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OMG... please give me license to use that phrase at work.

Thank you... I really needed a good laugh today!