New 2-hour Abilities

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Dancer's looks better than Trance. It's not going to be super useful, but it's something.

Climactic -> Evisceration -> NFR -> Reverse -> Rudra's -> New 2-hour -> Reverse -> Rudra's

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Does Striking Flourish overwrite Climactic?
I suppose I could test by talking to an NPC to stop my timers and try it, but too lazy atm.

If it doesn't, I suppose you could stack that on to the last WS too.
When I first read it, I thought it said that Flourishes would be set to 0 Recast...
I imagined spamming Reverse for the duration. /drool

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Originally Posted by Mavrick

I dare anyone here to find a another job with as much useless job abilities as BST.

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I'm actually genuinely impressed they managed to come up with a 2-hour for NIN I can say with a straight face is legit worse than Mijin Gakure.

Suddenly, I know how that little Japanese man who lives in an emoticon and flips over tables feels. I give up on cleverly formatting a response to include the cells.

Also, I was hoping that the power of Embrava and Perfect Defense were indicators that the Development Bros had learned how to make super-duper awesome two-hour abilities. That hope just died of complications from a respiratory infection while bed-ridden in a nursing home, suffering from dementia and only visited by its children once a month.

That said, I think a lot of them are pretty cool even though they're not amazing.

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WAR - Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.

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This will be extremely useful for between 1-5% of the situations a Warrior would normally be in, such as fighting Naraka in Legion and probably some stuff I can't remember. This would actually be one of the better ones if it didn't have to compete with Mighty Strikes, which is pretty damn mighty.

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MNK - Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.

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Assuming the Development Bros know that Counters currently grant 0 enmity, I could see this being good for what it is. Still, a tanking ability that works best with limited support or incompetent support is unlikely to compete with damage-dealing ability that works best with limited support or incompetent support.

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WHM - Grants party members protection from status ailments.

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Much better than Benediction in this day and age. I bet it will still be worse than Perfect Defense, although the duration could make all the difference here.

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BLM - Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.

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Something that increased damage would be more useful, since Mana Font does not do that.

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RDM - Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

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so much depends
upon

a red mage
ability

given a high
potency

alongside the duration
increase.

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THF - Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.

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I like major damage!

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PLD - Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

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This sounds worse than Invincible for the few situations that players would bring a Paladin to handle. Although, if this reflects a LOT of damage, I have to think someone could find some use for it. There is always a place for heavy damage if a job is already along to do other stuff.

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DRK - Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.

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This could be amazing and this could be horrible. If this is Absorb-TP on every swing, it will be amazing. If the effect is more like the additional effect on Twilight Knife, it will be horrible.

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BST - Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

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I assume the Reraise is in the place of the offensive buffs granted by Spirit Surge, and this has no offensive side. If that is the case, this is truly an execrable ability. Run Wild has found a drinking buddy. A drinking buddy who suffers from crippling alcoholism and a failing liver.

If there's no offensive buff, this ability is not good. Not good at all. It's bad. Very bad. BAD END.

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BRD - Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.

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Very few things are killed using magic damage and Soul Voice is a pretty solid 2-hour, so I'm not sure when anyone would use this. It could have an awesome potency and an awesome duration, and I still can't think of when it would be used.

This doesn't sound like a bad ability, but I doubt there's any niche for it.

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RNG - The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.

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This sounds much better than Eagle Eye Shot, partly because Eagle Eye Shot is so bad. Not a bad addition to Ranger for folks who still use Ranger for zerg-type stuff.

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SAM - All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.

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This sounds great. GOOD END.

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NIN - Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.

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This is less awful than Mijin Gakure. That is the nicest thing I can say.

Something that increased damage would be better.

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DRG - Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.

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This sounds beyond pointless for group activities. Depending on the duration, it might be worthwhile for soloing or in a duo?

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SMN - The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.

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It's no Perfect Defense, but I was expecting something much worse. This could be epic for Shock Squall...which is generally only used in the same situations as Perfect Defense...so...uh...Good for finishing something off with five Predator Claws or Heavenly Strikes while in a very small group, I guess.

This isn't bad, but again, it's not Perfect Defense.

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BLU - While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.

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Most of the Unbridled Learning spells aren't even worth casting once every five minutes, so I don't see the point of this. If those spells were adjusted, this ability could be lot of fun.

As it stands, this ability sounds worse than any two-hour ability ever. It has a chance to get a lot better as more monsters are introduced in Seekers of Andoulin, but I won't hold my breath.

Seriously, this one is bad. Worse than the Beastmaster thing. Worse than waking up on the floor of a public restroom. The worst.

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COR - Grants the ability to use up to 3 Phantom Roll effects.

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Everything depends on the duration and, more importantly, the mechanics. This could be epic. It could also fall flat.

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PUP - Automaton will use special abilities. Special ability usage will depend on the automaton head.
Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes
Valoredge Head: Invincible
Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot
Stormwaker Head: Chainspell
Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)
Spiritreaver Head: Manafont

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Really awesome concept but the execution is really clumsy.

This would be infinitely more useful if Mighty Strikes were moved to Valoredge, and Eagle Eye Shot as well as Benediction-lite were replaced by something else. Benediction-lite, in particular, is really bad.

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DNC - Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.
Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.

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This is really nice. What Trance is to Dancer's atrophied healing side, this ability will be to Dancer's relatively healthy stuff-hitting side. Not amazing or game-breaking, but this sounds very nice.

I'd like to think that the Development Bros' bitterness after Byrth and roughly one-hundred other people made fun of their newborn Ternary Flourish helped motivate them while they making this. Shaking their fists at the sky with vengeful thoughts in their minds, the Development Bros set out to make a time when all flourishes are useful.

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SCH - Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.

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This is interesting, and surprisingly strong given how timid the Development Bros usually are with enmity, but it's not Embrava. This is not Embrava.

EMBRAVA.

Job Effects
WAR Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.

^-- Meh, mnk already has this in Formless strikes, this would be a good new JA for war, but not a 2hr.

MNK Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.

^-- This seems redundant to what mnk already has. Bolded section: you are introducing a new tank sometime within the next 6-12 months and you are giving a unintentional tank job something that increases their enmity by a large amount? That's just a fuck you to anyone trying to tank, scenerio, mnk pulls hate, hits this 2hr for whatecer reason, looks whose the tank for the rest of the fight unless they die.

WHM Grants party members protection from status ailments.

^-- Um barspells? ^ reads to me as AoE Fealty which is largely useless and would be even more so useless only every 2 hrs. This would be epic as a new regular JA however.

BLM Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.

^-- with enmity douse this is not really an issue anymore. Unless enmity douse is down, then u need to be intelligent and not go batshit with spells.

RDM Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

^-- why? As most people have said, unless you make them AoE it's pointless.

THF Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.

^-- Current enmity? Enmity developed during this 'assault'?

PLD Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

^-- Add in a increase in enmity cap while this is active and i could see this being REALLY useful.

DRK Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.

^-- Not a drk personally but knowing that drk is a DD job and this would let u spam more ws, i could see it being useful

BST Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

^-- no, just no. Let us use tp abilities without the tp restriction or take off the recast on tp abilities or something.

BRD Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.

^-- .... meh, you COULD let us have 3 songs for one brd?

RNG The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.

^-- Not a rng but only useful thing there is no ammo consumed.

SAM All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as
more special abilities are evaded.

^-- This seems like a tank ability, not a sam ability.

NIN Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.

^-- Nin already got this... they don't need an another ability for it?

DRG Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.

^-- It'd have to be a lot... like make the pet entirely impervious to dmg.

SMN The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.

^-- Overpowered a tad.

BLU While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.

^-- As a regular blu this is f'ing epic.

COR Grants the ability to use up to 3 Phantom Roll effects.

^--- ... yay?

PUP Automaton will use special abilities. Special ability usage will depend on the automaton head.
Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes
Valoredge Head: Invincible
Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot
Stormwaker Head: Chainspell
Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)
Spiritreaver Head: Manafont

^-- Eh better then overdrive, not by much though.

DNC Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.
Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.

^-- Dnc does not really have long enough recast timers to worry about flourish timers, the finising moves would come down to duration.

SCH Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.

^-- Like pull everyone elses enmity off and put it on say the tank? Or make all future enmities directed at that person? If the latter that would help with tanking problems and make sch very useful in a tank situation.

It's actually tragic that the one two-hour that has a neat, not-at-all-overpowered strategic application was given to SCH, which will proceed to never, ever use it.

Should roll the entire SCH two-hour into THF's tbqh.

EDIT: For those wondering, the DNC one really is quite powerful; the limiting factor for Flourishes (and really, the big reason everybody's always dogging on the Group 3 Flourishes) is how quickly you can get FMs and how using those FMs for anything other than Reverse is a false choice 90% of the time. This ability resolves that, so while Rudra's obviously benefits the most, being able to use Striking/Ternary with no regard to Reverse is good for everybody. Again, its actual usefulness obviously comes down to duration, though.

thf 2 hour, is this spike damage i.e. 1 hit or an increase in damage for 30 seconds?
does it still work if no player is standing in front of you .i.e. solo?

Completely unimpressed by BLU.

If it gave access to your -entire- spell list, like BLUs have been asking for as a JA for... forever, then maybe we'd be getting somewhere.

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Most of the Unbridled Learning spells aren't even worth casting once every five minutes, so I don't see the point of this.

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BRD new 2hour sounds great if you have way too many BRDs. This seems to happen all the time and I'm glad somebody finally addressed it.

Honestly, RDMs shouldn't be complaining about the new 2-Hour. We already have the best dang 2-Hour Ability in the entire game, so anything they could've possibly given us afterwards was bound to be worse.

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Originally Posted by detlef

BRD new 2hour sounds great if you have way too many BRDs. This seems to happen all the time and I'm glad somebody finally addressed it.

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best post so far

well SE is bloody stuborn on the whole AOE on RDM, at this point idk why though, they have changed their vision on so many jobs and made loads of alterations that they originaly didnt want for those job's.

Drg 2 hour was fixed to a 20 min JA, nin went from DD to tank, sam from tank to DD, sch got regen 5 instead of cure 5 etc.

I still think they should swap out rdm enhancing and enfeebling to AOE as well on that job as it was the original main holder of those abilitys before new jobs came, RDM has given tons of spells to other jobs its time for it to get some back.

The new 2 hour with AOE spells would be very usefull, just think 50+ boost str, 40% DA, double haste, enspell dmg on top, double value stoneskinra for almost900 or so dmg resist, double phalanx effect, double shellra 5 effect and bareffect. ofc limited to only once evry 2 hours, but even with 2 hour burned these would secure a room for rdm.

ofc it all comes down to how long 2 hour effect last if u only got 30 sec to cast ur spells u might have to prioritize witch is best for situation, but even as is with rdm/sch u should be able to do AOE Shell V and all other enhancing spells that are castable as aoe with /sch.


As for the Rng 2 hour im a bit divided, why do they try to fix ammo usage with a 2 hour ? id probably been more happy to have gotten a does 4x dmg a shoot for x time at 1/4 enemitty and carries over to WS or a TP regain giving 50 tp a tick for 45sec -2 min for rapid zerg with greatly lowered enemitty under 2 hour effect.
As for the ammo isue, if this is se answer to some of the ammo problems they doing it wrong, just up the way to make adaman bullets etc for less materials, or add some new Recycle JA that grants 50% or higher chance of recycle proc under effect, lasting 2-3 min recast 5 min.

As for the BST 2 hour, what where they thinking ?
BSt allready complaining about loss of pets on zones etc from jug and they add another eat ur jug JA that takes ur pet away ....
Heres what BST new 2 hour should be Grants access to all PET Ws ( including sevral they left out on sevral pet's ) or a regain/haste/DA effect on pet for 2-5 min with endless points to use on pet sic ws, allowing u to finish a kill on target faster on stronger targets.
Or even a Callable 2 hour pet ( mayby a chocobo like from origin story of BST ) or a Opo Opo NM pet with special sic attacks and higher then regular jug pet stats, just so many sugestions and they went with killing ur jug/charm pet or a DRG 2hour copy.

i wonder though if the Sam 2 hour might end up supa overpowered.

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Originally Posted by Kari

Does Striking Flourish overwrite Climactic?
I suppose I could test by talking to an NPC to stop my timers and try it, but too lazy atm.

If it doesn't, I suppose you could stack that on to the last WS too.
When I first read it, I thought it said that Flourishes would be set to 0 Recast...
I imagined spamming Reverse for the duration. /drool

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Nope. None of the Tier 3 Flourishes stack. Random trivia, but they also share the same buff spot as Sneak Attack, so they don't stack with that either.

I wish it did give Flourishes 0 recast and make them cost no FMs. Then we could really have some fun. That is what I originally thought it did from the JP version and I got excited. When the NA version was posted, that was downgraded to "At least it's still better than Trance." Realistically, though, I'm not going to be using this except in the rare situations when I know I won't be playing a job with a more useful 2-hour any time soon. I can use it for another 6000-7000 damage once per Limbus farming run or Assault spam (the only things I seem to do on DNC anymore) assuming I switch Twashtar to the main hand.

Really, unless they make it the way I thought it was I'm not sure this 2-hour has much potential.

Cool so SAM is getting Perfect Dodge ++ and THF is getting TA + on a 2hr timer and this is considered balanced? I really hope that "Major Damage" isn't the same as "Severe Damage" from Coruscanti.

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Originally Posted by Tamarsamar

Honestly, RDMs shouldn't be complaining about the new 2-Hour. We already have the best dang 2-Hour Ability in the entire game, so anything they could've possibly given us afterwards was bound to be worse.

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Huh? Chainspell isn't all that....

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Huh? Chainspell isn't all that....

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I honestly beg to differ. There are few situations that can't be improved with Chainspell.

So I really only play DRG, but to be honest this seems like we get nothing, in addition to a semi-useless 2hr we already have.
DRG 1st 2hr- Basically the same thing as the BST 2nd that everyone else can mention as useless. The only thing we get is some Haste, which can be gotten through other means, and reduces the effectiveness of our other job abilities.

DRG 2nd 2hr - Hey look, its spirit surge, only with a 2hr recast.......honestly. Spirit surge currently heals a very nice amount of HP, like 1/2, and then grants a regen effect. This happens every 1min 30secs. If our wyvern hasn't been staying alive due to this, then it's probably not going to stay alive during this 2hr without it getting invincible. Other than that I can see this being like a DRG version of Familiar, which is better than our current 2hr, but still fairly useless.

Here are some nice changes that could be done.
lower recast on Call Wyvern - make it 5 min, like Call Beast
merge Jump with Spirit Jump - there is no reason for 2 abilities, they share the same recast timer anyways, Spirit Jump is just an upgrade of Jump.
merge High Jump with Soul Jump.
give fight, heel, and stay commands for wyvern.
then give us a useful 2hr, or a couple of stances, like nin and sam have.

Will you all stop saying that pup's new 2hour is "good" "not useless" "better than overdrive" or anything else that isn't "it's shit" please? Seriously, it's not better than overdrive, and overdrive is terrible. It's nothing more than a gimmick to amuse unintelligent players and those not well-enough informed about mechanics to recognize why it's terrible.

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Originally Posted by Xerius

Cool so SAM is getting Perfect Dodge ++ and THF is getting TA + on a 2hr timer and this is considered balanced?

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Slow your roll, dude. It only stops TP moves, many of which can be stopped by Third Eye already anyway.

It's not the worst of these, sure, but there are still not that many situations where I'd use it over Meikyo (which I consider to be on-the-whole mediocre).

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Huh? Chainspell isn't all that....

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I don't know what it is you're smoking but I want some.

Chainspell is boss.

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Originally Posted by Aldarin

So I really only play DRG, but to be honest this seems like we get nothing, in addition to a semi-useless 2hr we already have.
DRG 1st 2hr- Basically the same thing as the BST 2nd that everyone else can mention as useless. The only thing we get is some Haste, which can be gotten through other means, and reduces the effectiveness of our other job abilities.

DRG 2nd 2hr - Hey look, its spirit surge, only with a 2hr recast.......honestly. Spirit surge currently heals a very nice amount of HP, like 1/2, and then grants a regen effect. This happens every 1min 30secs. If our wyvern hasn't been staying alive due to this, then it's probably not going to stay alive during this 2hr without it getting invincible. Other than that I can see this being like a DRG version of Familiar, which is better than our current 2hr, but still fairly useless.

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You don't even know the name of your only job's 2-hour, so I wouldn't consider you an authority on anything DRG-related. Spirit Surge is your 2-hour. It restores the recast timers on all Jumps and transfers your Wyvern's TP and HP and stat bonuses to you, as well as a potent haste effect. It's better than many jobs' two-hours. With all the TP you get from your wyvern and then your restored jumps (which you should use right before Spirit Surge), you deal a very large spike of damage. The only bad thing about Spirit Surge is if your Call Wyvern timer is down.

You're thinking of Spirit Link.

Hmm also a bit confused about the pld and shc 2 hours, if the sch one was for pld and worked as a constant Area effect zeroing out evyone else enemitty and giving it to selft it might be usefull, then have a thf use his new 2 hour behind pld to bind hate on pally.

At this point idk if more block/defence is what pally's want?
Seems like the new mnk 2 hour just had mnk steal pld's place as nm holder in multi nm zergs
and the War 2 hour is like a rehash of mnk merit ability with a little ++ on top.

The blm one also seems lackluster, why not just add a doubles dmg done with spells for x amount of time.

the drg one has some promise, as others said if it's boost is great ( maybe have the wyvrn get access to mini flail under 2 hour as a pet ability with a tiny stun ) if the wyvrn got like -85% DT or something it might be usefull for those big aoe fighs

the cor one seemed a bit disapointing for a 2hour, a 3rd roll ? thats more like something u could add as tier 3 job meritt not 2 hour, wouldnt something like a luck based boost to curent rolls or Devils luck ability giving the cor loads of TH effect on target be more inline with cor theme ? mayby even a doubles treasure drop ability depending on corr 2 hour roll, giving 2 off evrything in a chest if u lucky out.

I saw the post and immediately checked bst...
"What?! we are EATING our pet!?" I lol'd and lol'd and lol'd and lol'd... I'm still lolling at the dark humor.

Practically speaking, the merit has already been said: Run Wild's drinking companion.

Our hopes were so high for run wild. The description says it will expire the pet in 5 min, but that was OK, because the description really made it sound like our PETs would burn up all their wild energy DESTROYING our foe... but they just get a nifty regen until they die. I only ever use this when I get the 5 min warning in dynamis. I don't even need to. This has never saved me. I usually forget it exists.

Watered down spirit surge is disappointing in the same way. It sounds like the idea is to save our bacon when we are in a DIRE situation... uhmm Let me explain when a DIRE situation is for bst.. ITS WHEN YOUR PET IS GONE and you can't get'him back! If I wanted to SACRIFICE my pet, it would be to get a Full Spirit Surge effect. I would want the DD output for a ZERG attack. I've already got twilight set for auto RR3 whenever I need it or 1/2 a dozen other great sources for RR.

This is the kind of 2hour a solo bst might have liked years ago when things just went wrong, you are out in the middle of nowhere and you are going to lose the last 2 hours of xp and travel back to camp...

Inverting the direction would be more useful.. putting the master in a weakened state, but completely restoring pet/cure status and give it RERAISE.. but still not great.

I would much rather get a similar effect to the pup's new 2-hour. Let my War pet do mighty strikes, my mnk do 100 fists, my thf pet do perfect dodge, PLD type to invincible, etc... Even better would just be Pet-family specific Super moves.

I agree w/ spankwustler on blue mage and pup as well. The blue mage unbridled learning spells are just not that impressive... I guess you might look at this a defensive blu 2-hour (cuz Azure lore is pretty sweet since it was updated). In that casting bloodrake, hardened shell, pyrhic bulwark all close together could save you in a physical tanking situation... maybe... probably too slow though.. its just not that good. When you have to look for extreme situations to find a use for a 2-HOUR ability... then there's a serious problem.

Pup the idea is really cool. I really liked the idea when I read it, but the practical application really pulls the wind out of its sails.

I like the sustained perfect counter for mnk idea. waiting to see how it goes.

SMN looks like a fun ability
WHM looks useful.. provided it also CURES all status effects first, right? (I mean it SHOULD go w/out saying, but I'm nervous w/ that phrase...)
WAR Thats a plenty useful ability
THF sounds great
DNC sounds great
SAM sounds great
SCH sounds nifty and fun.
blm means you can nuke w/ abandon


I don't have opinion on the rest.

Alright, raging over pup's 2hour aside,

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WAR - Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.

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This would be an awesome JA to have situationally, but it's really not 2hour worthy, even if it would easily be stronger than formless strikes, by the nature of formless strikes being non-elemental magical damage, while this implies non-elemental physical damage. Unless the game treats those two as the same thing and I'm just behind on the times.

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MNK - Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.

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I... what. I know you guys announced this one at vanafest, but it still doesn't make sense, because it's basically an offensive version of perfect dodge, that's not even as good for staying alive because you can't counter TP moves (which is a fair trade for the damage gain). However... why in the world would you put enmity gain on this? It makes absolutely no sense...

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WHM - Grants party members protection from status ailments.

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Party-wide Fealty? That's useful, at least. Somewhat situational, but useful nonetheless.

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BLM - Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.

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This will depend entirely on the duration and the amount of the reduction. Looking at the rest of this list, though, my money's on "It won't be enough to matter."

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RDM - Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

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That's awesome, you know, for all of those self-target only buffs that don't really get any use because rdm can't cast them on anyone else, so it basically just means they get to 2hour and buff refresh II/haste, for ghetto embrava, hold the regain. Seriously, what in the world are the devs thinking?

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THF - Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front.

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This is a very nice option for thf. The devs get points for this one.

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PLD - Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

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So you're basically giving pld palisade and reprisal. Again. On a 2 hour recast timer. At the cost of Invincible. Did you guys put any thought into this, or did you forget that you added palisade?

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DRK - Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.

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This is going depend heavily on two things; its proc rate, and its potency. If it lasts as long as blood weapon, it should be fine. However, if its potency is not respectable (read: 2-5 TP drained is not respectable), and/or it's proc rate is not 100%, it will be be very hard justifying it over the souleater+bloodweapon combo. If it's a moderate (at least 50%) proc rate, it needs to have a significant amount of TP drain per hit. If it's 100% proc rate, it can afford a lower TP drain due to the nature of how strong it would be in high haste situations.

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BST - Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

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This is just garbage. Bst is the one pet job that DOESN'T benefit from auto-killing their pet for a JA. Smns can belt out new pets every couple of seconds, and drg wyverns are basically just their for extra TP in jumps and healing breaths. Pup can survive and thrive on its own even without a pet, and probably would have benefited from a spirit surge-esque ability like this (however, trading your pet for ghetto benediction and reraise is just stupid; at the very least it should function the same way as spirit surge: buffs and extra TP).

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BRD - Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.

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Shared recast means this will never get used, because Soulvoice is better in every way. However, Soul Voice is so amazing as it is, it's understandable, I can't even fathom anything else being able to come close to soul voice in terms of usefulness.

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RNG - The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.

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Congratulations, you've managed to do better than Eagle Eye Shot. This isn't even remotely worth a 2 hour recast timer, but it's better than Eagle Eye Shot. Seriously, what kind of 2 hour can miss...

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SAM - While the ability is in effect, all damage caused by the physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.

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Shared recast means this will never get used, because Meikyo Shisui is better in every way.

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NIN - Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.

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Whether or not this is more useful than Mijin Gakure doesn't really matter, since it's basically just Issekigan on a 2 hour timer with added Ninja Tool Expertise and Recast Reduction. I'd say it would be a lot more useful even if you'd added "Ninjutsu casting times will be reduced by 50%" as well.

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DRG - Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.

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....so you're giving drg the modern equivalent of Call Wyvern as their 2 hour again....

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SMN - The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.

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This one is hot, the devs get points for this.

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BLU - While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.

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Shared recast means this will never get used, because azure lore is better in every way.

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COR - Grants the ability to use up to 3 Phantom Roll effects.

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This doesn't really seem like it should be a 2hour, so much as it should be something you slapped on Death Penalty, the way brd has Daurdabla.

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DNC - Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.
Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Move will not be consumed.

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This was a lot more impressive in the google translated version, which made it sound like it was setting the flourish recasts to 0 as well, but it's still not that bad.

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SCH - Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.

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Why did you give this to scholar? Shared recast means this will never get used, because Tabula Rasa, by which I mean Embrava, is better in every way. Both pld and nin would make far, far, far better use of this ability...

So....

Thf is very good.
Smn is very good.
Drk is potentially very good
Dnc is potentially good
Whm is useful
Blm is potentially useful

Cor is potentially useful but whether or not it's really fair to give them this as a 2hour, and not as something else, is questionable.
Mnk is potentially useful, but the enmity is a really weird point and may become an issue
War is potentially useful, but not really 2hour material
Rdm is... good in theory, but made pointless because rdm is not able to actually benefit from many of its self-only buffs (lookin' at you, Temper) so this really just gives rdm a ghetto soulvoice/embrava substitute. It's not the worst by any stretch, but it could use a lot of work.

Brd might be useful, but it won't ever be worth using over soul voice.
Sam probably won't ever get used over Meikyo shisui, and isn't really 2 hour material anyway.
Blu is made useless by the fact that none of the unbridled learning spells are worth using, and and spamming them won't ever be able to touch the things Azure Lore can do, so this new ability will never be used.
Sch is incredibly useful in theory, but because you want to give it to SCHOLAR, it will never get used, because it will never out weigh Embrava. Give sch's ability to pld or nin, seriously.

Rng is an improvement over Eagle Eye Shot, but isn't really 2 hour material
Nin is a repeat of another ability, but is situationally an improvement over Mijin Gakure. It should be better, but it's not absolutely terrible.

Pld is absolutely pointless because pld already has that exact ability in palisade (with reprisal up) on a much, much, much shorter recast timer.
Bst is utterly worthless
Drg is utterly worthless
Pup is utterly worthless

So the final score is:
Good Abilities: 3/20 ~ 6/20 (depending on potentially good abilities)
Potentially Good Abilities: 3/20
Abilities that aren't bad but probably need rethinking: 8/20 (including the next category)
Abilities that aren't necessarily bad, won't ever get used because of the other 2hour: 4/20
Abilities that are better than their old option, only because the old option was terrible: 2/20
Abilities that need to be completely scrapped and something else considered instead: 4/20

So in other words, 6 managed to get 6 right, and the rest of them need to be looked at, and several of them thrown out entirely.

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WAR Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.

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Sounds neat. I'm not sure this really warrants a 2hr cool down, but it's probably got a use or two.

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MNK Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.

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This sounds like it would be useful for blocking 100 fists and / or 1-2 other things. Just doesn't sound that great considering that regular attacks aren't really a major concern like aoe / magic stuff is.

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WHM Grants party members protection from status ailments.

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This could be extremely useful on NMs that spam that sort of stuff.

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BLM Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.

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Should just change this to "removes all enmity from magic attacks"

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RDM Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

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This could go soooo well, or sooooo wrong. I expect the latter based on previous experiences.

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THF Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.

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So trick attack on a 2 hour timer? what did I ever do to you?

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PLD Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

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see monk

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DRK Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.

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Will this literally steal TP? If so it could be a great way to keep TP moves in check while crushing NMS. Will this be nerfed for K-clubs as well?

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BST Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

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If by "absorbs the pet", you mean that the master will add all of the pets stats / abilities to his own, then great (I know this isn't what you meant). Otherwise this sucks. Just plain sucks.

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BRD Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.

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I can't picture this being better than current 2 hr ever, but sure...

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RNG The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.

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Seems cool

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SAM All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.

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This seems like it would have very limited usage, especially if the increase in ws damage isn't awesome.

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NIN Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.

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I could see where this would be extremely handy, especially when compared to suicide.

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DRG Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.

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If this makes the DRG insanely strong, then yay. Otherwise meh.

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SMN The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.

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This actually sounds pretty kick ass (unless it only lasts like 10 seconds).

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BLU While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.

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hmmmm...

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DNC Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset. Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.

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I picture this getting screwed up more often than not when in actual use (ie. mob stuns you / amnesias you etc.).

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SCH Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.

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Why isn't this a Thief ability on a 20 minute timer?

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Originally Posted by Camate

[PLD] Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

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What an insult to my Ochain! How about some damage or enmity control instead? Don't we already have Reprisal? This is just adding a duplicate of that spell in job-ability form. Even for non-relic paladins, having more shield block is going to do nothing when the mob is facing the thf or the mnk or the [insert fast melee job here]... please understand my good intentions with this feedback :)

Please don't let pld become more and more useless ... :(

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Originally Posted by Theytak

However... why in the world would you put enmity gain on this? It makes absolutely no sense...

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because this does absolutely nothing if the mob doesn't attack you.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Some of these are truly awful. Take them back to the drawing board and try again.

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Most of these are truly awful. The designers should really play this game sometime; despite how horribly they manage it, it's a pretty cool game.

I think the RDM one would come down to whether it can buff enhancing spells that don't normally scale that well/at all. Mega Phalanx/Pro/Shell/Barspell with Accession is not Perfect Defense, but it has some potential (especially since that Proshell will be lasting the whole half hour; I'd love running around with a 350 defense ProV and a 35% Shell for the entirety of a small-group event), especially since RDM can then bring some other stuff to the table with its two-hour, like Hella Enspells.

Once again, duration's going to be important to that one, if only because it will dictate how many self-buffs you can Accession out. I wouldn't say it's a balls-out amazing 2-hour (i mean, how would i even know at this point) but the durations of the buffs you apply with it make it worth a second look. I don't play RDM like at all; could anyone tell me if Composure's durational extensions apply to party members when you Accession out those buffs?

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Originally Posted by Theytak

Mnk is potentially useful, but the enmity is a really weird point and may become an issue

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I think they meant it as a tank-like ability. That probably was their idea altough... since when do you rely on a job who can tank once every 2hrs supposedly for 1 min or slightly more?
Since when does MNK need this to keep hate from other jobs?
Still, it's a defensive additional option, why not having it and using it situationally.
Another good part of having enmity is that the mob will be facing you => you will be countering => more damage.
You can't counter if mob is facing someone else of course.
I dunno, this is probably not what I was looking like but it has potential.

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Brd might be useful, but it won't ever be worth using over soul voice.

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Seriously, this should have been a song, with much lower potency of course.
Using it as a 2hr... uh... if it sticks 100% of the itme (lol@using it and seeing it resisted!) and lasts A LOT of time, it might be useful on some fights actually.

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Sam probably won't ever get used over Meikyo shisui, and isn't really 2 hour material anyway.

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I think you're greatly underestimating this.
It depends on how much it lasts of course, but think about a good sam with a good defensive setup, like the ones we used to have when we killed Atoreis with SAM tanks, imagine them using this skill and shooting powerful WS.
It depends on a lot of factors like how long it lasts and how much it boosts WSs, if this boosts "reset" when you take damage etc.
But potentially it's a pretty awesome alternative to Meikyo Shisui.
SAM already has an awesome offensive 2hr, this one just offers a defensive/offensive alternative, I like it a lot on paper.

Sch is incredibly useful in theory, but because you want to give it to SCHOLAR, it will never get used, because it will never out weigh Embrava. Give sch's ability to pld or nin, seriously. [/quote]
Incredibly useful? Really? To be able to move enmity on someone? So much enmity that probably would go mostly wasted because of the enmity cap?
And you can use it once ecery 2hr? Sounds pretty preposterous to me lol

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Rng is an improvement over Eagle Eye Shot, but isn't really 2 hour material

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Why not? Sounds nice to me, not just "better than EES". I like it personally. Won't gamebreaking but it looks like a nice 2hr, especially for Annihilator owners!

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Pld is absolutely pointless because pld already has that exact ability in palisade (with reprisal up) on a much, much, much shorter recast timer.

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Well if it makes your shield activate more than an Ochain, lasts long enough and returns A LOT of damage, it could be nice.
Honestly I was expecting them to give PLD a magic damage Invincible, guess that would have been too obvious...

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Pup is utterly worthless

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As much as I agree with the points you exposed earlier and with this JA looking nice to who doesn't know PUP very well but being shit in reality, I don't agree with your extreme pessimism.
Doesn't look worse than Overdrive to me. Benediction is cool (did you seriously expect them to give us a full party benediction? Can you imagine the rants from WHMs?).
Invincible on Valoredge is a bit... ehr... well let's say it's not completely useless, depending on how much it lasts, but try not to be too much disappointed just because you "wanted Mighty Strikes for VE".
EES won't necessarily do less damage than Armor Shatter. If the damage is interesting you could use it right after an armorshatter and stack a lot of spike damage in a few seconds. Not awesome but, again, sounds better than Overdrive.
Chainspell too looks really nice on paper to me, altough MP might become an issue there. Doubt we'll be able to ADD and keep the 2hr buff up.
All in all the spiritreaver one looks the most ridiculous to me because, like you already said, we virtually have infinite MP in most situations.
For BLM doll Overdrive is probably a better 2hr, especially with the +15 additional seconds from AF. Alllows to spam Ice Maker for 60 seconds etc.
lolOverdrive ist better for Valoredge too if you want damage, but the new 2hr gives you an ADDITIONAL option, while the new 2hr looks much better for Stormwaker, Soulsoother and lolHarlequin.

Dunno, this is not an awesome 2hr but it looks better than Overdrive.
What were you expecting for PUP, seriously?


What leaves me a bit skeptic is the fact that, imho, these 2hr will have to be unlocked with merit points just like WS, and there will be a cap so you won't be able to get all of them =/

I'm seriously concerned as to who the 5 people were that liked the OP - you either didn't read all of the job 2 hours, or are one of the very few jobs in that list that got something useful (i.e. thf). That, or 5 dev's liked it ^^

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Originally Posted by Oakrest

I'm seriously concerned as to who the 5 people were that liked the OP - you either didn't read all of the job 2 hours, or are one of the very few jobs in that list that got something useful (i.e. thf). That, or 5 dev's liked it ^^

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Do you really think trick attack is a good 2hr?

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Originally Posted by Tamarsamar

Honestly, RDMs shouldn't be complaining about the new 2-Hour. We already have the best dang 2-Hour Ability in the entire game, so anything they could've possibly given us afterwards was bound to be worse.

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Honestly to me its a solo 2Hour, Chainspell is more a party 2hour with the use of CSS and all that, but this should make us very powerful when we use this and then buff. Sadly with this we also basically lose any chance at ever seeing Renew because to refresh the duration timers for RDM after this would mean you get super buffs for 2hours, SE would never let us have something so awesome -_-;

Rng looks awful, unless i misunderstand what it's saying it's basically unlimited shot with emp feet on...

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Slow your roll, dude. It only stops TP moves, many of which can be stopped by Third Eye already anyway.

It's not the worst of these, sure, but there are still not that many situations where I'd use it over Meikyo (which I consider to be on-the-whole mediocre).

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Think of Ironclads, Harpia, that kinda thing, where all that they use is TPs... oh the wonders...

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Do you really think trick attack is a good 2hr?

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If its trick attack on every hit for 30 seconds, meaning with the DMG boost from AGI and all that, yeah, could kick some ass!

Think the THF ability is gonna be a fulltime trick attack that doesnt wear off for its duration.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Think the THF ability is gonna be a fulltime trick attack that doesnt wear off for its duration.

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That would kick ass, but I'm 99% sure it's just going to be a more powerful trick attack, that will transfer all your enmity (not just the enmity from that hit).

I'm going to talk about the ones that I really care about.

SMN - Awesome awesome awesome, especially when soloing. Being able to spam Predator claws or some other Offensive BPs is going to be supremely powerful, especially against NMs. Probably won't use, though, in lieu of Alexander.

PUP - Man, so much haterade on this new ability. I, for one, think this new ability is rather awesome. The way I see it, each automaton is set in a certain way, and emulates certain jobs or certain roles.

Mighty Strikes - Harelquinn isn't generally a useful automaton. I would use it, though, for this ability. Put it on a Sharpshot frame, and then spam TP moves. When it's done spamming, I would change the auto back to full Sharpshot.

Invincible - The Valoredge frame is NOT a WAR or a PLD frame, but a tanking frame, and should be looked at. And there is no ability that best helps tanking than Invincible. So, I think it's appropriate, and I would use it if I had the automaton tanking something.

Eagle Eye Shot - This goes well with the Sharpshot frame, as it's a high physical damage frame. It has potential, considering that the frame doesn't suffer from ranged damage problems that can pop up with Ranger. The only real question is how much damage does it do compared to the weaponskills. If it can't devastate Armor Shatter, it'll be useless.

Chainspell - Could be useful, especially as a zerg move. Although, if the automaton still is under the global recast, then this ability will be rather useless.

Benediction - A very useful HSB when soloing. If things go really go south (I'm half dead, and I pulled a link), this can be a lifesaver.

Manafont - Similar to Chainspell, it'll only be useful if the automaton is allowed to cast quickly.

DNC - Similar to trance, it could be useful to spam finishing moves willy-nilly. The only limitation, though, will be the recast timers on Finishing Moves. While the timers are reset, they probably won't be set at 0 for the duration of the move.

SCH - I think it's useless, even if Embrava wasn't there. Any tank worth his salt will be hitting the enmity cap very quickly in a fight, and the only thing this ability might do is temporarily remove hate from other party members. Maybe if it increased the enmity cap of the person receiving the hate, then I could see it being useful. Add in Embrava, and it's really useless.

Overall, I'm fairly impressed with the new abilities, and I can't wait to test them on the test server.

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Originally Posted by detlef

BRD new 2hour sounds great if you have way too many BRDs. This seems to happen all the time and I'm glad somebody finally addressed it.

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Actually, I believe that was the purpose of the new SCH 2 hour.

More seriously: New WHM 2 hour needs to remove status when used if it doesn't already. New RDM 2 hour needs some kind of ability to cast self-only buffs on others. New BST 2 hour needs to be put to sleep (to grant the dev team reraise and full HP). Reserving comment on the others.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

I think they meant it as a tank-like ability. That probably was their idea altough... since when do you rely on a job who can tank once every 2hrs supposedly for 1 min or slightly more?
Since when does MNK need this to keep hate from other jobs?
Still, it's a defensive additional option, why not having it and using it situationally.
Another good part of having enmity is that the mob will be facing you => you will be countering => more damage.
You can't counter if mob is facing someone else of course.
I dunno, this is probably not what I was looking like but it has potential.

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Yea, that's kind of what I was getting at. It's one thing as a defensive ability, but that's different from a tank ability. I'm not saying the enmity's necessarily a bad decision, I'd need to see it in practice to decide that, but it's still... weird...

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I think you're greatly underestimating this.
It depends on how much it lasts of course, but think about a good sam with a good defensive setup, like the ones we used to have when we killed Atoreis with SAM tanks, imagine them using this skill and shooting powerful WS.
It depends on a lot of factors like how long it lasts and how much it boosts WSs, if this boosts "reset" when you take damage etc.
But potentially it's a pretty awesome alternative to Meikyo Shisui.
SAM already has an awesome offensive 2hr, this one just offers a defensive/offensive alternative, I like it a lot on paper.

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It's entirely possible I may be underestimating it, and I hadn't considered the possibilities using it against something like an iron clad with TP moves for regular attacks, but it still seems like glorified Seigan-3rd eye to me, so I really don't know.

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Incredibly useful? Really? To be able to move enmity on someone? So much enmity that probably would go mostly wasted because of the enmity cap?
And you can use it once ecery 2hr? Sounds pretty preposterous to me lol

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I said "incredibly useful in theory" Obviously the enmity would go to waste, but at the same time, it would also mean that suddenly everyone not-the-target would be reset to 0/0 enmity, while the target's capped on both. That at least gives the group a little bit of breathing room while the melees are re-building hate, meaning it could do a tank 2hour's job of saving everyone's ass in a sticky situation. Giving it to sch, though, means it'll never be up in those situations, because embrava. I'm not saying it's amazing, just that it makes no sense that they gave it to sch.

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Why not? Sounds nice to me, not just "better than EES". I like it personally. Won't gamebreaking but it looks like a nice 2hr, especially for Annihilator owners!

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Why not? Because I'm a pessimist.

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Well if it makes your shield activate more than an Ochain, lasts long enough and returns A LOT of damage, it could be nice.
Honestly I was expecting them to give PLD a magic damage Invincible, guess that would have been too obvious...

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My guess is that since they've yet to introduce an ability to proc shield 100% of the time, shield, parry, and guard, are subject to a proc cap, similar to evasion. This ability is, essentially, the same thing as palisade, with a little bit extra, and kind of spits in the face of everyone that put the work in to get an Ochain, since I sincerely doubt the difference in block rate is going to be noticeable at all for them. As for the magic-damage invincible, I'm expecting that to rune fencer's 2hour, lol.

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As much as I agree with the points you exposed earlier and with this JA looking nice to who doesn't know PUP very well but being shit in reality, I don't agree with your extreme pessimism.
Doesn't look worse than Overdrive to me. Benediction is cool (did you seriously expect them to give us a full party benediction? Can you imagine the rants from WHMs?).
Invincible on Valoredge is a bit... ehr... well let's say it's not completely useless, depending on how much it lasts, but try not to be too much disappointed just because you "wanted Mighty Strikes for VE".
EES won't necessarily do less damage than Armor Shatter. If the damage is interesting you could use it right after an armorshatter and stack a lot of spike damage in a few seconds. Not awesome but, again, sounds better than Overdrive.
Chainspell too looks really nice on paper to me, altough MP might become an issue there. Doubt we'll be able to ADD and keep the 2hr buff up.
All in all the spiritreaver one looks the most ridiculous to me because, like you already said, we virtually have infinite MP in most situations.
For BLM doll Overdrive is probably a better 2hr, especially with the +15 additional seconds from AF. Alllows to spam Ice Maker for 60 seconds etc.
lolOverdrive ist better for Valoredge too if you want damage, but the new 2hr gives you an ADDITIONAL option, while the new 2hr looks much better for Stormwaker, Soulsoother and lolHarlequin.

Dunno, this is not an awesome 2hr but it looks better than Overdrive.
What were you expecting for PUP, seriously?


What leaves me a bit skeptic is the fact that, imho, these 2hr will have to be unlocked with merit points just like WS, and there will be a cap so you won't be able to get all of them =/

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Considering that Overdrive gives the puppet a fairly significant boost in attack speed (read: Haste), as well as a fealty effect, it's still stronger than this. And fuck what the whms think, us have benediction wouldn't suddenly make them not completely over powered. Also, it's not so much a matter of "I wanted mighty strikes on VE" as it is "VE is the only puppet that can actually make use of mighty strikes" because with harlequin, and the other frames, mighty strikes won't make any significant difference in over all damage. For EES, if it works the way EES works for rng, that means it will basically be a 5x damage ranged attack. That means a little over 1k damage for pup, depending on what you're fighting. I'm honestly not even sure it will be able to compete with armor piercer, let alone armor shatterer. Your point with chainspell is one that I forgot to make, though, and is also important. That said, between buffoon's collar, AF gloves, Cirque body +2, and Heat sink, all overdrive would do is allow you to keep using maneuvers for the 3rd or 4th nukes. You know, Aspir and Aspir II.

I was expecting something less aggravating than a shitty gimmick that we've already told them would be terrible. At least over drive gives the puppet haste and enfeeble immunity. That's fucking something. This is basically like giving a teal rdm mighty strikes and saying to go melee.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Do you really think trick attack is a good 2hr?

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Like someone else said, it seems like it's going to give a TA-style stat=+weaponD boost for it's duration, which, given thf's attack speed at haste cap, is a significant damage boost, even more so if it applies to WS (or specifically, more than the first hit). Just think about what it would mean if suddenly, in addition to atk/fSTR, 1 AGI = 1 Dmg for all melee hits. At 99, that's basically giving your daggers an extra 100 damage rating. If it applies to WS, think about what it means for Exenterator; it would effectively give exenterator a > 200% AGI mod, since the extra dmg from the 2hour wouldn't be subject to the alpha's 15% reduction in WSC.