I would like to see better pup gear, I would like to see more automation attachment, whm auto should be able to cast protect, haste, ect. It has regen so why not other buffs? Also a better self SC with the rng auto would be nice also.
Discussion Involving All Pet Jobs
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03-18-2011, 02:23 PMRocman
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03-18-2011, 02:27 PMXilk
Wow, i can't believe the pet community would troll on DRG. Thats pretty shocking to me. Of course its a pet job. What a ridiculous notion that it is not.
DRG doesn't fit into a pet-centric setup as well as the other pet jobs for party balance, because it does not share hate nearly as much as the other 3 pet jobs. It does so much of its damage on the main, that its going to take hate. If you are in an all pet party and there is a drg... the drg is tanking and you'll probably need some healing from another source... be it automaton, lulush, or a few more /mage. This talk makes me want to brush of my drg a little. I haven't seen Drg in Abyssea at all... Its fun to play, but my lowest level pet job....
Regarding the limit of only having 1 pet... I think the NPC fellows show that this could easily be changed. it looks like 2 pets when I have pet out and NPC fellow out at the same time. I think auto/mob/avatar/wyvern just all fill the same slot. NPC fellow shows that another slot exists and could exist. ironically, the magian trial log seems to occupy the same slot as the NPC fellow.
The only gear I can think of that goes to all the pet jobs exclusively are the herder's subligar and breeder's set (although I think only 1x french smn ever got that set). -
03-18-2011, 02:27 PMDauntless
This has also been stated before but: Shorter recast on call wyvern and @ level 99 Healing Breath IV
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03-18-2011, 02:30 PMColdbrand
Sorry I like to think of myself as a Jump job, not a pet job. Without the little blue punks I'd be wearing fullplate and all my jumps would probably be fully invincible for their duration like they're supposed to be. And I'd probably have Lancet by now.
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03-18-2011, 02:32 PMXilkAgreed, automaton attachments really gives puppetmaster an alternative to pet+ gear. The auto already has its own gear.. I don't see why they haven't added any new ones. pup and master can be pretty well balanced though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocman
DRG the emphasis is on the master w/ mostly support from the pet.
SMN the emphasis is so much on the pet I would expect all gear to augment the pet.
BST is probably where the contrast is most pronounced. both share the melee role quite equally.... the gear adds pet+ or main+ if you try to boost pet, you are usually foregoing several pieces that boost the master much more. -
03-18-2011, 02:35 PMRocmanwell said....Quote:
Originally Posted by Xilk
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03-18-2011, 02:41 PMNu-HirIt will never happen. Did you not pay attention when you unlocked Drg? Your Wyvern is sentient and has a mind of its own unlike Avatars/Elementals, Automatons, and pets. These pets cannot think for themselves and must be told what to do by their master. You are not your wyvern's master, you are its friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAIST
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03-18-2011, 02:42 PMKailea_Nagisa
my three favorite jobs, and the only three I really want to bring to 99, are DRG DNC and PUP, and I really hope to see PUP shine, I really have fun with the job, and have kicked some major butt solo with it. PUP can be crazy, but it would do better if they could wear at least middle class armor, and not just cloth/light class (been a while since I have played, if this is different please correct me)
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03-18-2011, 03:02 PMRAIST
actually, avatars and elementals do have an independent AI, just not as advanced as Wyvern. BST pets do too some degree (unfortunately when things get hairy they sometimes switch target on you, which is annoying).
I can see not being able to tell it to use breaths on demand (although, you do it by casting magic), but I don't see why we shouldn't have a simple attack and heel command for it too. DRG obviously have a bond and communicate with their wyverns...don't see why we can't say "sick 'em boy" and "hey, get over here!"
Raist -
03-18-2011, 03:06 PMNu-HirBecause people are sick of the stupid beastmasters, summoners, and puppetmasters who have those annoying macros, and don't want to have another job with a bunch of idiots doing the same?Quote:
Originally Posted by RAIST
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03-18-2011, 03:10 PMHarmless
I play all of the pet jobs fairly often and off the top of my head here's what I'd like to see:
BST
After the past few updates I can't really think of any huge change that is needed. I'd like to continue seeing new Jugs from 90-99. I'd also like to see the return to Charming mobs instead of just throwing jugs at stuff. Give me a reason to have all the charming gear I have =P. As others have already stated, I'd like to see more gear with buffs to the pet and masters both as well, similar to the Cirque Attire set.
PUP
This job needs much more than BST at this point imo. I'd love to see a new series of weaponskills for our automatons as well as some new attachments. I leveled PUP to 75 within weeks of the jobs creation (to the ridicule of many I might add) and I always looked forward to the updates because at the time they were adding loads of new attachments. IIRC they haven't added any since Coiler and Steam Jacket ; ; Another thing that SE has been much better about lately is giving us gear that is less "magey" and more DD. I'd like to see them continue with that... although I'll prolly piss a lot of people off, I think PUP should be added to MNK/SAM/NIN line of gear completely.
DRG
This job is already a DD powerhouse but I'd personally like to see more emphasis on the Wyvern. While I liked the additions to the AF3, I think even more focus needs to go to the wyvern for those of us who like to play the job "off the beaten path". Giving us more control over the wyvern would be nice. Maybe some more breath attacks/buffs that we can control like enfeebling offensive breaths (Frost Breath = Paralyze, Earth Breath = Slow, Lighting Breath = Stun ect...) and enhancing defensive breaths (Regen Breath, Refresh Breath, Haste Breath lol idk) even if we could only trigger those breaths when the wyvern has TP (similar to Ready for BST). I also would LOVE to see an ability similar to Dues Ex Automata for DRG. For the minor role that the wyvern presently play (offensively anyways) I've never understood the need for a 20 minute recast on Call Wyvern.
SMN
I'm having a hard time thinking of what this job needs atm. I think the job is pretty balanced in respect to the role it plays. I guess some things that would be a welcome addition from my point of view would be more Blood Pacts, both Rage and Ward from 90-99 (which we will no doubt get). I also would like to see at least 1 more Avatar added. Not so much out of necessity but just more options. I for one was disappointed with how Odin and to a lesser extent Alexander operated when released. Alexander is very useful at times but Odin seems very lackluster for the cost of our 2 hour. I'm not entirely sure which avatar could be added but something impressive. At 99 when there is a good chance BLM's will be casting Meteor and other jobs no doubt will have their flashy new abilities, I'd like whip out something impressive myself =) (an Avatar that is lol) -
03-18-2011, 03:15 PMTsukino_Kaji
BST needs more beast gear and less master gear.
PUP is ignored in a lot of updates and I don't care about it.
DRG is fine, it's about stabbing things, not sic'ing you dragon on things.
SMN needs Bahamut. -
03-18-2011, 03:22 PMOdintius
Think Odin and Alexnder should have another quest to open there BP once 99.
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03-18-2011, 03:30 PMColdbrand
I'm really not looking for more wyvern stuff short of a new tier of healing breath. I'd really hoping SE focuses on giving us the rest of the Dragoon's traditional repertoire, especially Lancet. Freya had a ton of awesome abilities that we could pull from, and if it's instead wasted on stupid crap like sending my wyvern to attack manually, I'll be pretty thoroughly peeved.
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03-18-2011, 03:37 PMOdintius
Always thought bst could should be able to use the pet from Pankration be able to level it and have another pet with jug or charm pet. eh wishful thinking lol
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03-18-2011, 03:52 PMXilkBecause Wyvern are a type of dragon, and you just don't tell Dragon's to do anything. They do what they darn well please, when they please. I hesitate to call the Dragoon the 'master' in this situation because frankly... you're just friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAIST
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03-18-2011, 03:54 PMTsukino_KajiWhat DRGs control in this game is dragon and not a wyvern. I always caulked that up to poor editing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xilk
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03-18-2011, 03:59 PMXilkWell, if you REALLY want to quibble....Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji
In this game a dragon is something Undead. and what DRG really has is a baby Wyrm. with a Wyvern being something between a Wyrm and a raptor.
You still don't issue commands to it.
Oh, and for BST? Already have a thread on it in bst forums, we should get Skillchain + Pet. :P
As far as gear goes... The needs of each pet type are diverse enough, there are few things all the jobs would want in gear. -
03-18-2011, 04:02 PMFlunklesnarkin
not sure if anybody has mentioned it yet...
but i want a new upgraded courier carrie jug
I'm ok without skill chains off my pet or hybrid commands.. just bring back carrie D:! -
03-18-2011, 04:08 PMTsukino_KajiA wyvern is something having only legs or none, with wings and no arms. A dragon is sometihng with all 6 appendanges. A wyrm is akin to a legless lizzard, having none. And the shadow dragon, albeit draconion and undead is not the only dragon in this game. i.e. Fafnir, tiamat, etc. Which are much better examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xilk
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03-18-2011, 04:11 PMZyeriisPretty sure Bahamut is the Wyrmking not the Dragonking :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji
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03-18-2011, 04:12 PMTsukino_Kaji
Bahamut is a fish with a hippo or elephant head.
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03-18-2011, 04:16 PMXilkhaving a high level aquan and a pld class pet again would be cool. doesn't have to be carrie, imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin
Carrie was no 1 for 2 reasons:
she was cheap
She was actually available
It was not because she was the best...
then again... she's the only one w/ a cool/unique model.... -
03-18-2011, 04:38 PMXilkobviously I'm referring to the existing classification system in the game...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji
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03-18-2011, 04:39 PMTsukino_KajiAnd obviously I was saying to begin with that the clasications they used were wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xilk
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03-18-2011, 04:42 PMZyeriis
Dead Horse response: Final Fantasy
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03-18-2011, 04:44 PMTsukino_KajiAnd dragons are not? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Zyeriis
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03-18-2011, 04:45 PMXilkIf there is any Cannon applicable to a fictional world, it is that of the creators of the fictional world only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji
I.E> consistency to world itself only... -
03-18-2011, 04:55 PMZyeriisFantasy vs. MythQuote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji
Fantasy is what it's creator makes it.
Myth is something historical that wasn't actually true (things that fall into this category: dragons and greek mythology, etc.) -
03-18-2011, 04:56 PMTsukino_KajiAbsence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Zyeriis
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03-18-2011, 09:07 PMPenance
I personally would like gear for the pets that make them look differently, like how they implemented pup but then the same for avatars.
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03-18-2011, 09:43 PMKomori
And put what on these magical representations of the slumbering gods? Lol.
Avatars are weaker versions of the slumbering gods that you have created a pact with because you've shown them that you have strength and courage that makes them feel worthy enough for you to use them. I'm not sure how much they would like to play dress-up however, if they would like people fiddling with their coloring or slapping crowns on them or anything of the sort lol.
I would like to see PUP be able to use gear that isn't AF/Empyrean and still be geared nicely. I'd also like to see more frames modeling other jobs; I think that would be fine. Not sure what other jobs though and like most people would like to see more attachments as well as a little more control on the spells and weaponskills that the puppets use. But that's my only complaint about the job. -
03-19-2011, 12:21 AMRennix
If drg is a pet job I guess every other job is a pet job cause they can summon an adventuring fellow.
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03-19-2011, 12:46 AMEtrigan
plain and simple, more pup attachments. More gear alternatives, and a new frame couldn't hurt....
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03-19-2011, 01:17 AMKorPoniAll jobs can have an adventuring fellow, that takes up a seperate slot from pets. That isn't even a valid comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennix
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03-19-2011, 01:43 AMLegomike
forgive me if mentioned havent read yet but they should just let pets get all/half the stats on gear and get rid of "pet" part. just going with scorpion harness would 10/5 acc and eva really be all that bad for your pet? a master of said pet shouldnt have to choose to be gimp for the pet to be better
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03-19-2011, 02:01 AMRennixlol when the wyvern is about as controlable as the advernturing fellow i think it's a valid argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by KorPoni
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03-19-2011, 02:13 AMZyeriisPoor phrasing, I literally went to sleep seconds after posting that at 4am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji
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03-19-2011, 02:24 AMDallas
We basically need pet job gear that improves both the owner and the pet. Anything less is half as effective as a normal job.
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03-19-2011, 03:00 AMMalamasala
Summoner will always be the job that had potential, but then was just terribly mistreated.
I'll point out a few of them.
A)
The job has high staff skill, and no spells. The pet fights mainly on its own. Great design to allow for you to melee alongside of your pet.
But as we all know... the job got no melee gear. It got no EX weaponskills (except mythic). It didn't even get melee traits, while it was at least as reasonable to make a melee out of SMN as of PUP or BLU.
B)
The job has excellent range of debuffs on their Blood Pact: Rage. Bind, Blind, Slow, Paralyze, Poison, Gravity, Stun.
And as we all know... they share timers so you can't possibly waste the timer on debuffs, but have to use the DD pacts. So a job as great at debuffing as RDM or BLU... is left as one of the least useful debuffing jobs in the game.
Not to mention the ready time of Stun is longer than almost all spells (meteor is the only spell long enough to stun. And only on KB).
C)
For some reason SE decided to go with "mind link" story and add perpetuation.
Which was probably one of the dumbest design choices in the history of video games. The result was that SMN could hardly even be counted as a pet job, because it never had any pet except for the 10 seconds it took to BP each minute. Which calculated is 1/6 of the time. Which translated to wyvern recast time, means the wyvern always died after 3 minutes and you waited the remaining 17 for recast with no pet. Pretty crazy, isn't it? 5/6 of your gaming time, you are petless. PUPs who had 20 min recast automatons and lost their pets after 5 minutes raged on the forums, and they still had a pet 1/4 of the time. But Summoners? They somehow brainwashed themselves into "It was meant to be this way, lets throw cures!"
The irony is of course that if you stick around long enough, you'll at 90 in full empyrean armor be able to have pets for free with refresh, and play as the game was intended to be played. Well, assuming you want to claim it was intended that all your armor slots would be occupied with "fix perpetuation" slots instead of melee stats, when the job has nothing else to give than staff damage.
So what does that all tell us? It was not imbalanced without perpetuation... so it was only around to make Summoner a bad job.
If the job had just been done right from the start, Summoners would have been staff DDs with a glowing pet by their side, throwing out support in forms of buffs and debuffs. Basically a DRG doing less damage and more support. Or you could compare it to a COR, except those have no pets.