Heavy Metal Plates

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Originally Posted by detlef

Your statement is idiotic. It's essentially impossible to farm up the HMP yourself.

Also, if you believe that SE isn't going to lower the 1500 number and that HMP will not come from any other sources in the future then you would be foolish not to be buying now. Right now, VW is still going (mostly) strong. Pulse cells have extended VW's lifetime a bit. But if SE introduces gear that is accessible to the masses and surpasses pulse gear then VW will die. And the HMP market will dry up.

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Its impossible for you to set up a VW T3 shout?

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Its impossible for you to set up a VW T3 shout?

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More than 1000 which would be required? Yes

Assuming a 25% drop rate for HMP from Jeuno T3, one can expect 6000 fights to collect 1500 plates. That's a hell of a lot of voiddust. About 120m if you assume 20k per. Please do not suggest doing Campaign for AN because under ideal conditions you can earn enough AN to pay for fewer than 3 voiddust per hour. And it's hard to justify doing an hour of Campaign battles for 60k worth of voiddust.

Your suggestion that we should "play the game" to obtain the HMP directly through drops instead of buying them is idiotic.

its the good old noob mentality that do not understand trade in this game. Real fishermen fish their own moat carps. Why PL a craft with the AH when you could mine all your ores!! lol.


'cos my time is more precious than my gil.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Supply and demand effect pricing. Currently the supply and demand is keeping prices at 100~120k each. If SE made the amount needed smaller or increased the supply to a proper amount the price would decrease with time.

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It also has to do with the fact that not many people do VW. I see the same people shouting every single day. When I join the alliance it's pretty the same people who do all other VW to. If more people did it then it wouldn't even be an issue. Really it's not SE fault that the players choose not to do the events.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Assuming a 25% drop rate for HMP from Jeuno T3, one can expect 6000 fights to collect 1500 plates. That's a hell of a lot of voiddust. About 120m if you assume 20k per. Please do not suggest doing Campaign for AN because under ideal conditions you can earn enough AN to pay for fewer than 3 voiddust per hour. And it's hard to justify doing an hour of Campaign battles for 60k worth of voiddust.

Your suggestion that we should "play the game" to obtain the HMP directly through drops instead of buying them is idiotic.

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LOL the game has to have time syncs or it will be Abyssea all over again: People getting done with content then begging for more. You guys are funny. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Think about it(I said this once and I'll say it again) If you got all your plates done would you continue to keep shouting for VW T3 runs??? Like I see some of the same people doing everyday. Not only does requiring 1500 plates gives the player a since of accomplishment it also extends the life of the event for those who wish to make their characters the best they can possible be. Will SE lower this requirement in the future or make the plates easier to obtain? Probably but I am sure they won't do it until they can add content in the game that could make our characters reach an even higher threshold.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

It also has to do with the fact that not many people do VW. I see the same people shouting every single day. When I join the alliance it's pretty the same people who do all other VW to. If more people did it then it wouldn't even be an issue. Really it's not SE fault that the players choose not to do the events.

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Rewards effect motivation, motivation effects participation. SE gave rewards that are few and far between, with low drop rates and only 1 spot they can possibly drop in of your box. This leads to alot of people not actually doing it events as much as they might. For instance something I said back near the start of this thread...

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Simple fix to supply if they wanted. Plates can drop in junk slots, plates always drop in HQ slots if it is not a HQ item. In the case of Pouch NMs pouches would still be HQ drops in the HQ slot, anything that is junk in the HQ slot should be a normal plate still. Abyssea gave 1 item on every kill always and you only required 50~75 of them, that number is 1/20th at most of the plate requirement I think it fair we always get at least 1 plate on NMs that drop them if not more.

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If plates dropped like this all NMs would be worth fighting in some way. Also all spots would have a reason, as I'm sure you know everyone wants capped red light, but the rest dont matter, they are nice to have higher but they are meaningless for the most part, as are cells that raise them such as cobalt. Rewards on VW are the reason for it not being done, there is alot of waste throughout the event that SE does not fix, or fixes in minor and somewhat foolish ways.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

That's why I know the best how hard they are to get. As soon as 2 ou 3 people buy them at the same time, they do not pop in bazars you have to shout all day. I felt lucky when I found 3 in bazars after the JP go to sleep.

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I mean no offense but honestly I can understand they are hard to get, but it makes it no easier when a single player is taking 3000(50 lv99 Emps worth) all to themselves...

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Rewards effect motivation, motivation effects participation. SE gave rewards that are few and far between, with low drop rates and only 1 spot they can possibly drop in of your box. This leads to alot of people not actually doing it events as much as they might. For instance something I said back near the start of this thread...



If plates dropped like this all NMs would be worth fighting in some way. Also all spots would have a reason, as I'm sure you know everyone wants capped red light, but the rest dont matter, they are nice to have higher but they are meaningless for the most part, as are cells that raise them such as cobalt. Rewards on VW are the reason for it not being done, there is alot of waste throughout the event that SE does not fix, or fixes in minor and somewhat foolish ways.

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Then it would be kind of lame honestly. Players would choose the easiest monsters then spam them over and over. At least with the T3s they are not too much of pushovers and you still need a decent setup to beat them.

I like to have some sort of challenge when playing games otherwise it just seems kinda pointless.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Then it would be kind of lame honestly. Players would choose the easiest monsters then spam them over and over. At least with the T3s they are not too much of pushovers and you still need a decent setup to beat them.

I like to have some sort of challenge when playing games otherwise it just seems kinda pointless.

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True, thats why drop rates for higher tiers should be higher or certain NMs(cities, possibly T1~2 Jeuno) should not drop them. However many NMs are untouched, as it has been said before Aht & Tav NMs are almost never fought and many of them will never be heavily fought because the rewards are not worth it to people. Not many people want the items from them, so they are impossible to do.

As for people doing the easy thing that is what already happens anyways. Zilart is a great example of it. Qilin shouts are very common. Uptala shouts are less common but they do happen every 1~2 days or so. Aello is a hard fight by compare, and is only done 1, possibly 2 times a week. The rewards for Aello are some nice WS legs, a good nuking earring, and a sword that is one of the best in the game, but sadly they are almost impossible because people do not like the hard fight.

So far as it stands alot of the plate drops actually make no sense, for instance how for some reason T3s drop plates however the next tier up does not, and none do till T6. T6s are even worse, they are much harder than T3s, and harder than Zilart NMs, however they still only drop a single plate. Plates need to be more common, plates need to be able to be gotten in trash spots so they have a reason to the common player, rather than just going to NPCs when the run ends, plates need to be changed.

I am sorely disappointed that they never added more VNMs with single plates, metal pouches beyond zilart (I was very hopeful that the bosses of ToAU/CoP would since the pathes are similar to the Zilart one), and more riftdross/cinder NMs.

It's frustrating, because plates are only going to go up, and riftcinder is already going for 900k - 1 mil on Odin. Lowering the number required is pleasant to think about, but I really think increasing plate drop rates on current VWNMs and adding more single / pouch drops to other NMs would be more fair. Alas, I feel like it's too late to pray for these things.

Yeah wtf at riftcinder price...

I've done armageddon 99 but I have no issues with them increasing the drop rate. Really quite stupid that the pouches only drop from the zilart mobs while single plates drop from mobs that are far more difficult.

I still get a kick out of the devs thinking that the empyrean trial 95>99 would be the hardest out of the three though. Anyone with a brain could have called them out on that one. You can basically complete the 95-99 trial at the cost of one umbral marrow.

Heavy Metal Plates aren't a huge issue now, but I can just imagine the nightmare that collecting 1500 will become as time passes and Voidwatch becomes a more and more minor part of endgame. It doesn't help that even within Voidwatch, what drops pouches or even singles is limited using rather byzantine logic.

Collecting Heavy Metal Plates won't be on nearly the same scale as collecting Alexandrite at present date, but it'll be the same principle. It's impossible to buy lots of something if only a small quantity is for sale.

They won't mix up plate distribution because they want people to keep doing Voidwatch in the years to come, like Dynamis.

That I think this will fail to keep players doing Voidwatch despite it being more rewarding and much less tedious than Dynamis was before the revamp is a credit to the players rather than a slight to Voidwatch, but there it is.

I guess in another 5-7 years we'll get a VW revamp that will be intended to improve the availability of plates but won't really accomplish anything.

I wouldn't mind them lowering the number 1500 does seem sort of absurd. As someone who did all their relic WS trails pre nerf and 1 month later had the number reduced by 90% I wasn't really pissed off because I thought those WS trails were such bs even though I wasted hundreds of hours doing them.

The way it is now if you are serious about doing plates its better to do dynamis every day you can make about on average 1.5m a day solo so around 100 days to get enough gil to buy the plates you need. Then do some VW occasionally when you feel like it because people will usually sell their plates really cheap at runs.

But actually doing dynamis for gil is a lot better for getting plates then actually doing VW. But if your main focus is doing dynamis for gil you will get done in about 3 months. Dynamis is the best source of making gil currently in the game.

Now this is why you don't see that many 99 empyreans, you can do what I said but then people feel like they rather get another relic for another job rather then use the gil for plates. You have to be really devoted to that job and weapon you are making to spend the gil on it.

"Qilin x6 WHM BLM BLUx2 DD(Emp/Relic) Only /tell" Another thing, you guys only want certain jobs in the alliance with certain weapons. You are putting a very large player base out of the equation because not everyone has Emp/Relic DD and some people only play those jobs. So again if you guys want to start complaining about the prices of the plates please start with the player base first.

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Originally Posted by Registeel

I am sorely disappointed that they never added more VNMs with single plates, metal pouches beyond zilart (I was very hopeful that the bosses of ToAU/CoP would since the pathes are similar to the Zilart one), and more riftdross/cinder NMs.

It's frustrating, because plates are only going to go up, and riftcinder is already going for 900k - 1 mil on Odin. Lowering the number required is pleasant to think about, but I really think increasing plate drop rates on current VWNMs and adding more single / pouch drops to other NMs would be more fair. Alas, I feel like it's too late to pray for these things.

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I think they will go down because as time goes on more and more people will gain access to the events and more will come into circulation, if not again blame the player base not SE.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

"Qilin x6 WHM BLM BLUx2 DD(Emp/Relic) Only /tell" Another thing, you guys only want certain jobs in the alliance with certain weapons. You are putting a very large player base out of the equation because not everyone has Emp/Relic DD and some people only play those jobs. So again if you guys want to start complaining about the prices of the plates please start with the player base first.

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Send people tells anyway I do not have a reilc or emp for all my jobs but I send people tells anyway, I do get in 95% of the time. Often people making these have a hard time getting people and they are willing to take people that don't have a legendary weapon.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Send people tells anyway I do not have a reilc or emp for all my jobs but I send people tells anyway, I do get in 95% of the time. Often people making these have a hard time getting people and they are willing to take people that don't have a legendary weapon.

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Also many people do not care about Emp/Relic even if its in the shout due to Merit WSs being how strong they are. Its just simply a habit people never got out of I think.

I keep hoping SE will increase supply or decrease requirement but if they don't I'll wait until Plates become rare during the new expansion, sell mine off and buy a relic.

It's already hard to get Qilin parties going these days. Once the new expansion hits, VW will be a ghostland.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

I think they will go down because as time goes on more and more people will gain access to the events and more will come into circulation, if not again blame the player base not SE.

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What the H? More plates will come into circulation, I will grant you that. However, as VW becomes less popular, the rate at which plates enter the system will slow down. But why would the price go down? A single empyrean weapon costs 1500 plates. Every empy owner can potentially use them. The only thing keeping prices semi-reasonable is that people view 1500 as too daunting a task to bother with. If VW slows down and fewer plates are being created, people will start snapping them up wherever they can.

I'm not sure why you you bring up "more people gaining access to the event." Anybody can participate in any non-Provenance VW fight from the very beginning. However, any new players doing VW for the first time are countered by the loss of players who have gotten what they want or have given up. That's why fewer people do VW now.

Also, blame the player base? What? Because fewer people will be doing an event after capping out on gear or becoming frustrated? Because prices of riftcinder are high because the majority of the desirable empyreans require it? I don't even... I think you enjoy getting people worked up on the internet by posting badly. You're doing a good job of that because it's keeping me interested in this thread.

Honestly I still don't understand why I am supposed to blame the players, last I knew it was SEs job to make content both rewarding and enjoyable to make us want to do it. VW does not fulfill this and thats why I wont blame players, and instead blame the source of the content itself.

http://i.qkme.me/3q5plx.jpg

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Heavy Metal Plates aren't a huge issue now, but I can just imagine the nightmare that collecting 1500 will become as time passes and Voidwatch becomes a more and more minor part of endgame. It doesn't help that even within Voidwatch, what drops pouches or even singles is limited using rather byzantine logic.

Collecting Heavy Metal Plates won't be on nearly the same scale as collecting Alexandrite at present date, but it'll be the same principle. It's impossible to buy lots of something if only a small quantity is for sale.

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I think you worried too much.
From what I've seen HMP on our server actually increased recently, and caused price to drop a bit lower.
Ppl seems to spam Qilin very often for gil. It's easy to kill, doesn't require a full alliance, can be killed with various setup, and after we know about /fume + no more merit magic proc, it's even easier to make lower tier VW pt when we don't have to worry about procs.

The addition of pulse cells has increased interest in VW recently. But that won't keep people doing VW forever.

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Originally Posted by detlef

The addition of pulse cells has increased interest in VW recently. But that won't keep people doing VW forever.

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Lol 5-10 million per cell on cerberus. Who the hell is buying these things?

On Valefor, the body cells have settled into the 1-3m range. Weapon cells are still stupidly rare.

Edit: Just checked your Cerb prices, those are pretty crazy to me. But Valefor has always been one of the cheaper servers.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Honestly I still don't understand why I am supposed to blame the players, last I knew it was SEs job to make content both rewarding and enjoyable to make us want to do it. VW does not fulfill this and thats why I wont blame players, and instead blame the source of the content itself.

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I make a ton of Gil from the drops. Not boatloads of money but enough to keep me afloat. If you don't join for the plates/gear/drops can still always go for the cruor which you can also turn into Gil or Max out your atmacites. Oh and lets not forget the experience points. Doing VW is the fastest way to Max out merits. I don't know what else they could do to get you guys to do the events.

Are you using stones? Buying voiddust? Buying cells?

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Originally Posted by svengalis

I make a ton of Gil from the drops. Not boatloads of money but enough to keep me afloat. If you don't join for the plates/gear/drops can still always go for the cruor which you can also turn into Gil or Max out your atmacites. Oh and lets not forget the experience points. Doing VW is the fastest way to Max out merits. I don't what else they could do to get you guys to do the events.

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Increase drop rates, put plates in junk slots, make single plates a 100% drop in the HQ slots(unless a rare item drops) on NMs that currently drop them. Make T6 Jueno NMs drop pouches, same with T2 Aht & Tav. Make T1 Aht/Tav drop singles. T4~5 Jeuno drop singles. And finally give T4 City NMs have a 5~10% chance at dropping Plates.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

http://i.qkme.me/3q5plx.jpg

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I gave 4 different reasons that anyone should care to do VW. It's up to the players whether they want to take advantage of that.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Are you using stones? Buying voiddust? Buying cells?

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Yes, no and sometimes???

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Honestly I still don't understand why I am supposed to blame the players, last I knew it was SEs job to make content both rewarding and enjoyable to make us want to do it. VW does not fulfill this and thats why I wont blame players, and instead blame the source of the content itself.

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Okay my first Qilin run I had the leader chew me out because I didn't have sky warp so I just left the alliance instead of dealing with is whining. NEWSFLASH Not everyone has been playing this game for the last 8 years! I have people in my LS who say they don't do VW because they don't have Emyprean/Relics. This is what I mean when I say it's the players fault, if players stop being douche bags to other players then more people would do the event.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Okay my first Qilin run I had the leader chew me out because I didn't have sky warp so I just left the alliance instead of dealing with is whining. NEWSFLASH Not everyone has been playing this game for the last 8 years! I have people in my LS who say they don't do VW because they don't have Emyprean/Relics. This is what I mean when I say it's the players fault, if players stop being douche bags to other players then more people would do the event.

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So...You're saying we should blame you for leaving that alliance and the people in your linkshell who don't do Voidwatch?

You're being awfully hard on yourself and your friends, bro.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Okay my first Qilin run I had the leader chew me out because I didn't have sky warp so I just left the alliance instead of dealing with is whining. NEWSFLASH Not everyone has been playing this game for the last 8 years! I have people in my LS who say they don't do VW because they don't have Emyprean/Relics. This is what I mean when I say it's the players fault, if players stop being douche bags to other players then more people would do the event.

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In this case I agree with you. Emp/Relic should not be a reason however, due to the inclusion of the lovely Merit WSs anyone with a high level/DMG weapon and some +1/2 sets, should be just fine to do VW. I am much like this with my DRK, most people will not bother you if you have at least City temps, possible Zilart temps, and the Merit WS @5/5 for the DD job you are coming as.

Wins can be a problem though, I would advise setup ls events for wins, its an easy way to get your LS into it and see what VW involves if they are worried they can not do the job without Emp/Relic. It also gets their foot in the door with it for later on if they are interested. My ls seems to have the same problems as yours, and this is what I have been doing, has seemed to work well for me. Also since you seem to be lacking some wins yourself it would give you a chance to take the group with you not only for their own wins but to farther your own progress as well.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

So...You're saying we should blame you for leaving that alliance and the people in your linkshell who don't do Voidwatch?

You're being awfully hard on yourself and your friends, bro.

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Nah he has a valid point, people in VW tend to be to picky on some things, I admit Emp/Relic is partly to weed out noobs who leach everything but it does screw alot of good players as well, same thing happens in my ls. Merit WS should remedy this for most, not all, and same with ls progress runs for the linkshell, which is what I have been trying to do for my linkshell.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Yes, no and sometimes???

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My point on this is if you're using voiddust (and if you've been doing a lot of VW, you are probably using voiddust a lot) that you aren't making as much money as you think. If you buy cells with cruor, you generally can't come out ahead unless you only use rubicund cells. Also, while you'll almost never lose money doing VW, voiddust can take a healthy bite out of your profit margin unless you're fairly lucky with drops.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Nah he has a valid point, people in VW tend to be to picky on some things, I admit Emp/Relic is partly to weed out noobs who leach everything but it does screw alot of good players as well, same thing happens in my ls. Merit WS should remedy this for most, not all, and same with ls progress runs for the linkshell, which is what I have been trying to do for my linkshell.

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He said he left an alliance because he couldn't be bothered to get his sky warp done and somebody rightly called him on it. It's his linkshell member who say they don't do VW because they don't have empys.

That's beside the point, however, because you don't need an empy to participate in VW. If you have a sensible weapon and good gear, people will not turn you down unless they simply don't need your job. People try for the best setups possible when content is new. Once it's been figured out and/or the demand for the fight is lowered, shout groups will take what they can get.

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Originally Posted by detlef

He said he left an alliance because he couldn't be bothered to get his sky warp done and somebody rightly called him on it.

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This is partly why I mentioned the wins, doing wins with his ls would allow him to get Zilart wins and thus, the warp required, unless you mean the sky warp I never bother to use with the crags, haven't used them in a long time so I don't remember if they are exactly annoying or what, I stick to VW.

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It's his linkshell member who say they don't do VW because they don't have empys.

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Yep, part of his argument on people being picky assholes however, so I threw that detail in as well. ^_^;

Crag warps are much more convenient for Zilart T3. They put you at either MG or Kirin entrance. VW warp puts you at Hall of Gods entrance in Ro'maeve.