Why PlayStation 2

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

Well if a certain company didn't region lock the PS2 / PS3 to begin with, this wouldn't be an issue. Since they could put all versions on the same DVD's and you could import them if you wished to have the expansion. Blame Sony, not SE.

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Region lock is profitable, ironically.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

Region lock is profitable, ironically.

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Unfortunately, yes it is.

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Originally Posted by Westyle

I can always dream of this game getting the 2.0 treatment. I think if they remarketed FFXI now with an engine overhaul and versions available on current generation consoles it would be quite successful compared the original PS2 release. People back then were put off by the HDD's price tag, plus how difficult and slow the gameplay was. I enjoyed the game but it was next to impossible to make any progress solo.
I suppose the PS3 release of FFXIV would be a good measure of how an FFXI upgrade would fair.

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The problem here is that if FFXI were completely redone and then ported to PS3*, it would become competition for FFXIV, which is the last thing they need, considering that they're relying on a lot of the current FFXI players to join FFXIV once FFXIV-2 comes out.

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Originally Posted by Aldersyde

You have no idea the exact amount of people who play on consoles or otherwise, because SE has never released this information. If you think they have, prove it and post a link. Just because you believe it, doesn't make it true. Don't tell me to look for it myself, if you're making an argument the onus is on you to back it up.

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I have no need to back it up with anything, you only need to look at the evidence. It's been said time and time again that JP players play it mostly on PS2, clearly that is true hence the PS2 version of the EP, NA/EU play it mostly on the PC, XBOX 360 then the remaining on PS2/3. Clearly as there is no EP for PS2/3 it has the SMALLEST number of players and NOT deemed cost effective to cater for them.

If you genuinely believe there is enough NA players on the PS2/3 then that is your prerogative, SE clearly don't see it as so thus they are NOT making the EP for PS2/3.

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Originally Posted by Joslyn

And yet they have no trouble porting over old games like GoW and Tomb Raider, and hell there making FFX in HD.. Its not that they cant they just won't because of laziness.

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It's NOT laziness, it's smart Business. You have to remember games like the PSOne games are tiny in size, and ridiculously easy to port, almost like just uploading the ISO. PS2 games are not the same.

FFX HD has a big enough player base so therefore they are upgrading (yeah right, barely noticeable) safe in the knowledge it'll make the money back it cost easily. FFXI will NOT.

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Originally Posted by Eric

The problem here is that if FFXI were completely redone and then ported to PS2, it would become competition for FFXIV, which is the last thing they need, considering that they're relying on a lot of the current FFXI players to join FFXIV once FFXIV-2 comes out.

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The problem is, if it was completely redone it'd probably cost more than making a brand new game and really wouldn't get that many new players. FFXIV 2.0 is a massive update, with a lot of Shops looking to market it as a new game, and game reviewers willing to class it as one. It has the potential to sell and get a huge playerbase. FFXI will never achieve that now not unless they made it F2P.

I think it is fair for people to complain about it. This SE is a business and this is a product they pay for, and if it is taking the direction its consumers don't want, the consumers should be able to complain.

That being said, I agree with the statement that SE has made this move because of it just not being profitable enough. I think that survey we filled out a year or so ago where we indicated our system preference has a lot to do with this. Not enough people indicated the PS2 as their preferred system in NA/EU to make it a profitable venture. Its not racism,its that the money is not there.

As its been noted, in Japan the PS2 still lives. I can't think of a store here that still sells,much less markets PS2 games anymore.

Talk of upgrading FFXI isn't new and has been met with the argument of being too costly to be feasible. This is why the game still looks the way it does. The GUI update isn't really an overhaul, just a touch-up with new code introduced from XIV (ironic, that). Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to inquire of they will make the Japanese PS2 disk region-free.

I've played on PC, PS2 and XBOX 360. Here's my opinion.

The PS2 ran fast, I had minimal lag, rarely disconnected, no discs. But the graphics omfg. There's other downsides, I'm sure. I only played on PS2 for a short time.

The XBOX 360 has pretty graphics, pull it out of the box and install the game (no additional equipment or setup required, aside from a sufficient amount of memory). But I lag so bad in congested areas and if I get disconnected while playing, my disc and I get to play the "haha, you can't read me" dance. Yes, this is usually corrected by playing music while starting the game. But not always.

The PC is only limited by your pocketbook. If you can afford all the best stuff and install it, you're fine playing on that platform. But even a most basic computer can run FFXI these days. I got a cheap one at Best Buy (no, not a great idea but I needed a computer for other reasons and I was limited on money) and with just a bit of help from a great LS mate, I was able to make my game run. Heck, even my crappy laptop can (and does!) run FFXI. I always assumed it would blow up if I ever tried.

But you need to know what you're doing. I had no idea how to set it up and while I was assured my computer would run FFXI, it kept having errors. My LS mate put a weird little clock widget on my desktop and boom, it works. I am not a computer expert by any stretch. I lag only in REALLY REALLY congested zones/areas/JP Primetime in those zones (doesn't really happen often, only if I'm running tons of crap on my PC too) and at crystals. I ALWAYS have lag at crystals and maws. But it's a nice balance between PS2 and XBOX.

PS2 will die off and become nothing more than a memory. If you can save up and afford a decent computer, do it. Otherwise, the XBOX has improved greatly in the last few updates. I just prefer PC.

I keep seeing people say no NA stores sell PS2 games anymore ... Walmart does and its one of the biggest nationwide retailers so um yeah. I play on both PC and PS2 and IF SE were actually going to give the game an overhaul I would support dropping PS2 support but fact is they aren't. You are flat dreaming if you think FFXI is getting the FFXIV 2.0 treatment lol.

So this guy is raging because he tried to play FFXI on a net book...

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Originally Posted by Ragmar

I keep seeing people say no NA stores sell PS2 games anymore ... Walmart does and its one of the biggest nationwide retailers so um yeah. I play on both PC and PS2 and IF SE were actually going to give the game an overhaul I would support dropping PS2 support but fact is they aren't. You are flat dreaming if you think FFXI is getting the FFXIV 2.0 treatment lol.

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People are saying that you will have a hard time finding a store that is selling new releases for PS2.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

I have no need to back it up with anything, you only need to look at the evidence. It's been said time and time again that JP players play it mostly on PS2, clearly that is true hence the PS2 version of the EP, NA/EU play it mostly on the PC, XBOX 360 then the remaining on PS2/3. Clearly as there is no EP for PS2/3 it has the SMALLEST number of players and NOT deemed cost effective to cater for them.

If you genuinely believe there is enough NA players on the PS2/3 then that is your prerogative, SE clearly don't see it as so thus they are NOT making the EP for PS2/3.



It's NOT laziness, it's smart Business. You have to remember games like the PSOne games are tiny in size, and ridiculously easy to port, almost like just uploading the ISO. PS2 games are not the same.

FFX HD has a big enough player base so therefore they are upgrading (yeah right, barely noticeable) safe in the knowledge it'll make the money back it cost easily. FFXI will NOT.



The problem is, if it was completely redone it'd probably cost more than making a brand new game and really wouldn't get that many new players. FFXIV 2.0 is a massive update, with a lot of Shops looking to market it as a new game, and game reviewers willing to class it as one. It has the potential to sell and get a huge playerbase. FFXI will never achieve that now not unless they made it F2P.

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You don't get it they are still supporting PS2, the dat files are all the same between versions, Japan is getting everything. When SoA comes out you they will still be updating PS2 with all the item and gear graphic files even in the US PS2 while get these files. They really aren't spending any more money by making it available for US PS2 if they just do a downloadable version.

They are making a version of it for JP. SE could easily have made it a download on PS2 and not have a retail box version which is what most people want. Nobody is asking them for a retail boxed PS2 version but what we do want is a download to be able to continue playing with PS2.

So basically the only thing the US PS2 version won't have is the new zone files they will get everything else.

Obviously they can't for some reason or they would do it. I promise they would gladly take money from EN PS2 players if it made financial sense.

I would imagine there's simply no production of NA-region PS2 discs anymore. If so, that's probably why.

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Originally Posted by Ragmar

I keep seeing people say no NA stores sell PS2 games anymore ... Walmart does and its one of the biggest nationwide retailers so um yeah. I play on both PC and PS2 and IF SE were actually going to give the game an overhaul I would support dropping PS2 support but fact is they aren't. You are flat dreaming if you think FFXI is getting the FFXIV 2.0 treatment lol.

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in the bargain bin

It's just a cost thing somewhere along the line. There's some process that makes it not cost effective and we will likely never have any clue what it is unless they tell us. People just need to accept that dropping EN PS2 from the expansion is part of what they needed to do to make the it happen at all. If you can't be bothered to spend 1 minimum wage paycheck so the vast majority of the EN community who upgraded 6 years ago can enjoy a full expansion then you're a jerk or really really really poor.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

I have no need to back it up with anything, you only need to look at the evidence. I

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Stopped reading right there. Thanks for making it clear straight off that it's pointless to have any kind of discussion with you. What f@$*ing arrogance...

1) They haven't run a PS2 disc in ages and it is probably a nightmare to get them into production in the US. EU never had a PS2 version.

2) The reason you can't see the "sky grid" in the PS2 version is mostly because the graphics are too low-resolution. The PS2's graphics are just too blurry a mess.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

You don't get it they are still supporting PS2, the dat files are all the same between versions, Japan is getting everything. When SoA comes out you they will still be updating PS2 with all the item and gear graphic files even in the US PS2 while get these files. They really aren't spending any more money by making it available for US PS2 if they just do a downloadable version.

They are making a version of it for JP. SE could easily have made it a download on PS2 and not have a retail box version which is what most people want. Nobody is asking them for a retail boxed PS2 version but what we do want is a download to be able to continue playing with PS2.

So basically the only thing the US PS2 version won't have is the new zone files they will get everything else.

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Download the expansion to the PS2???!! Are you serious? Have you not taken notice of how much trouble they have with just even 100MB (sometimes less) of patches as it is already? This is going to be NEW AREAS....as in, NEW ASSETS, not rehashed versions of existing areas that are using all the same monster models and such so they can cheat and use the same files for a lot of the content. Look at TAU....the CAB files were past the 800MB mark--that is the two compressed containers, who knows what they are when unpacked---but it states on the box that is wants 2GB of free space.

{Edit:}
Just out of curiosity, I unpacked the CAB files on my laptop.....1.95GB worth of new files on the TAU Windows installation disc.

I didn't read much but the OP, and I do agree with some points on specific visuals. In particular, the camera seizure on PC is absolutely horrible, and never happened to me on PS2. The lag in loading character models is a little annoying too. I also miss the PlayOnline yell :)

The problem I have with these and the rest of the points is ultimately they're relatively inconsequential. The few advantages I love about PC are so dramatic that you could add a thousand more little benefits to PS2 and they wouldn't make any difference. Here are the three things that are game breakers to me. I'd quit the game before I'd go back to PS2 if these issues still existed.

1. Freezing on NPCs and cut scenes. I stayed on PS2 longer than I should have because I was lazy and didn't want to go through the setup process. When I couldn't progress through ToAU at all is when I switched. How are people getting through WoG and ToAU missions? Are you not doing them? Using a friend's PC?

2. Macro set delay. My PC switches between macro sets instantaneously. I can even hold it and watch them roll through back to the first one in under a second. PS2 was terrible at this. This made a huge difference on a job like SCH where I'm constantly flying through macro sets and books.

3. Update and Logon. When I was updating both systems, it took my PS2 roughly three times longer to update than my PC. If I tried to update PS2 on update day, I'd have to recover from errors 20+ times before the update would continue. I've never had to do that once on PC. My PC also logs on at least twice as fast as PS2 did.

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Originally Posted by Suteru

The reason you can't see the "sky grid" in the PS2 version is mostly because the graphics are too low-resolution.

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The default PC resolution, 640x480 (which I used to take the first screenshot) is the same as the PS2's output. Granted, the PS2 puts out an interlaced image, but the grid is still not visible when being deinterlaced/upconverted by a PS3.

Any difference between 480p on a PC and 480p on a PS3 is a difference in the code itself, not in the inherent nature of the platforms.

think you're missing the point.....PS2 is likely using lower quality textures to begin with...just like they were having to pare them down for the PS3 version of FFXIV compared to what they originally generated in the initial PC release.

Wait... it's coming out on ps2 in Japan? Wasn't that half the point, dropping ps2 so that we could have a real expansion with actual new, non-recycled content? It's going to be WotG and Aby all over again (which were awesome, but not new areas).

What is it about 'home market' that's failing here? The user poll they did last year clearly revealed that alot of players in Japan play on the PS2 whereas in the US PC dominates. Who do you think Square is going to cater to more? I already know the answer here, and it's not going to change anytime soon as far as I can see. It's the same old discrimination PSO players got used to a decade ago, myself included.

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Originally Posted by Lisotte

Wait... it's coming out on ps2 in Japan? Wasn't that half the point, dropping ps2 so that we could have a real expansion with actual new, non-recycled content? It's going to be WotG and Aby all over again (which were awesome, but not new areas).

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No, the point was Economics 101. The player-base assumed PS2 drop was to facilitate the end of the "PS2 limitations" argument.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to inquire of they will make the Japanese PS2 disk region-free.

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Not possible. PS2 doesn't have a designation for a disc to be region free. It must have a region code on it, and it must match the console's region code for it to boot the disc. Xbox 360 allows multiple region codes on the same disc, and has a region free designation. PS3 simply doesn't bother with region lock on PS3 software, as long as it has a code, but it enforces PS1 and PS2 region locks on physical discs.

Partly, PC dominates here because the game released about 18 months earlier here on PC than PS2, and partly because SCEA only made and sold the hardware required to run the game for about 9 months (March 2004 - November 2004). In Japan the game launched on PS2 6 months before PC, and the hardware was much more widely available and for a much longer time span (2001-2009 or 2010). There simply aren't as many HDD units in North America, so there's a smaller player base because SCEA created that scarcity.

Meant to edit this into the previous post, whoops.

They also offered two versions of the HDD (an internal and an external) in Japan as well as a Lin-station HDD (which turned the PS2 into a pure computer). Again, another example of the home market getting preferential treatment.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

They also offered two versions of the HDD (an internal and an external) in Japan as well as a Lin-station HDD (which turned the PS2 into a pure computer). Again, another example of the home market getting preferential treatment.

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Perhaps there was no market for those items here? Just saying not everything needs to be released and distributed equally. It's like honda making their integra in japan while the acura discontinued the rsx model. There it is a popular car to drive. Here it is a popular car with high school kids, and teenagers who think it'll be fast and sweet to trick out. People in their 20's would rather have a nicer "sports" car than that, such as a VW GTI or something that's more luxury. Would I spend 20k on a rsx that they say is luxury, or would i spend it on something that doesnt feel like youre driving down a dirt road on the highway. This crap needs to stop. I played ps2 for years, the graphics suck. plugging my ps2 into my 1080i 32" samsung hurts my eyes and im not joking.

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Originally Posted by RagingAvatar

Please understand Teraniku, that given that the expansion is coming out on PS2 in Japan, there will be no increase in performance of the game even though (at the moment) the PS2 expansion isn't coming out in the US.

The PS2 is still going in Japan.

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Oh don't get me wrong, I know that Japan is getting the game on PS2 Discs. Since Fat PS2's were manufactured in Japan til at least 2009. I still think SE is making the right move. (By the way I have all 3 versions of the game. So I'd probably get the PS2 version if it was available, just to be a completest )

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

They also offered two versions of the HDD (an internal and an external) in Japan as well as a Lin-station HDD (which turned the PS2 into a pure computer). Again, another example of the home market getting preferential treatment.

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Do some research on Sony's control over HDDs in the U.S. for a more educated assessment on why SE can make devices for PS2 in Japan but not in the U.S.

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Originally Posted by bungiefanNA

Partly, PC dominates here because the game released about 18 months earlier here on PC than PS2, and partly because SCEA only made and sold the hardware required to run the game for about 9 months (March 2004 - November 2004). In Japan the game launched on PS2 6 months before PC, and the hardware was much more widely available and for a much longer time span (2001-2009 or 2010). There simply aren't as many HDD units in North America, so there's a smaller player base because SCEA created that scarcity.

Meant to edit this into the previous post, whoops.

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PS2 regions are set as "flags" just like XBOX360. I was shocked when I learned that.

What you said is true about all discs, but hard drive contents could be made region free if they wished to.
But their policy was DRACONIAN DRM (DNAS) and DRACONIAN market control (regional lockdown).

Dang, SONY... At some point their policies even hurt SquareSoft (before the merge with Enix, there were a serious shortage of harddrives in Japan)... I suppose that helps to explain why they had to take some shortcuts with the PC version (dirty textures, broken models) as they needed to use automated tools to convert the PS2 data to PC and a lot of mistakes these tools did on the data were overlooked...

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

They also offered two versions of the HDD (an internal and an external) in Japan as well as a Lin-station HDD (which turned the PS2 into a pure computer). Again, another example of the home market getting preferential treatment.

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There were two versions of HDD because there was an extra series of PS2 released in Japan before our launch model series. The model 10000 had no expansion bay, it had a PCMCIA slot for a PC card. The external HDD connected to that card, and wasn't compatible with model 30000 and 50000 systems with the expansion bay. The internal drive plugged into the Network Adapter, which plugged into the DEV9 port at the top of the expansion bay.

Japan had 3 models of PS2 in that series before we got our launch model. They had the 10000, 15000, and 18000, then the 30000 came out globally.