[Dev] PS2 and the new expansion

I like XIV, but I don't know if it can ever be great after its launch. It can definitely be moderately successful, but I doubt it will reach greatness after that launch.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

No, XIV is still their idea of the next great MMO given how much work they're still pointing into it. XI's still around because if it's raw staying power and loyal fanbase in Japan. Playing XIV myself I have to say that it stands to gain just as much staying power with it's still unrivaled writing and decent game mechanics (now that they're no longer kowtowing to the old director).

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When I said "was" I referenced how they intended to scrap FFXI and force everyone on going to FFXIV. Now they know if they scrap XI, they will even finish killing XIV and putting to waste all time and money they put on both games, not to mention both SquareSoft and Enix legacy.

The migration has to happen naturally from 11 to 14. Someone has to go out and buy the pc version or play the ps3, and when they are bored of 11 will be play 14 and vice versa. Without a successful launch that i believe is the only option of where 14 will get most of their players. A decent influx of people wanting a mmo and only having a ps3 will give it a shot when it comes around, and people who play on pc will follow friends over. Otherwise, you have another couple of years of content from 14 if they release the expansion and don't give everyone everything in one shot. CoP was done well in my opinion of gradually working itself up to sea, with limbus being tossed in as a side event for those who had access. People screwed around in miseraux coast and lufaise for a long time before they were able to get further, then people camped and did events in riverne, ect... It will be well worth the wait if they put the time an effort into any expansion they put out minus WoTG but even then, that expansion opened doors to a way of solo leveling not seen before. especially blm since the melee burns.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

I only have a PS2 to play FFXI, is there no possible way for PS2 users outside of Japan to access the new expansion comming in 2013? I have no choice but to get a pc or im lrft out? Really hope to get an official response.

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If they are supporting the Japanese PS2 platform, i would assume the NA version would also be supported. There aren't many Japanese players still using the PS2 client. Possibly the same percentage of NA players still using the PS2. If it's not going to be supported outside Japan, then that client probably best avoided regardless which region you play in.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

The problem is that the PS2 is simply extremely dated hardware, using extremely dated software/firmware. Eventually it simply becomes too much trouble with the legacy code to be worth supporting it anymore compared to the more efficient way of supporting it on newer platforms. If they are to keep this game alive and well for the future, they may very well one day have to scrap some of that problematic code and do some recompiling to keep it stable on the newer platforms. We've already begun to see problem with Win7 and video card driver support issues. There are some older i486 based games (written in the Win3.x and Win95 era) that throw up on themselves when you try to run them on today's systems. The same can potentially happen with the legacy coding/emulation going on with FFXI---eventually, it just isn't worth it to try to support that older code in newer environments, and some of it simply has to go.

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But today's PCs are completely compatible with Windows 3.1 and earlier. Intel CPUs now support 64bit and have twice the number of registers but completely backward compatible with any PC that conforms to IBM's original specs for it's PS/2 line. And the PS2 CPU is quite a bit more sophisticated than Intel's processors.

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Originally Posted by Tsuneo

I'm a PC player, and I can say it how it is. There's just nothing to be gained from dropping PS2. Whether people can move to another platform is irrelevant.

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lol, no you aren't. good try though.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

But today's PCs are completely compatible with Windows 3.1 and earlier. Intel CPUs now support 64bit and have twice the number of registers but completely backward compatible with any PC that conforms to IBM's original specs for it's PS/2 line. And the PS2 CPU is quite a bit more sophisticated than Intel's processors.

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Selective reading?

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Knowing of this pending obsolescence for the PS2, the sooner they can start preparing a migration path off the dated platform and into a Windows centered environment, the better. Remember, PS2 is 12 years old...hard to find a high percentage of home users still running ME/W2K, and the XB360 is a Microsoft product and does incorporate some Windows components into it's development and such. It would greatly benefit them for future survival of the franchise to take steps as soon as possible to encourage users to migrate away from the PS2 so that when it does finally slope off the radar, they can have a smooth transition.

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The older OS's from the 80's/90's are no longer mainstream for some specific reasons.....PS2 suffers in the same way. You can't find win 3.x drivers for newer hardware. Aside from maybe recovery and a short list of various maintenance utilities, you'd be hard pressed to find practical use software or games that boot into a DOS environment and use VESA graphics (think the last game I had that did that was Wing Commander, Heart of the Tiger or something like that). There are simply other platforms that superceed the PS2 much in the same way newer OS's superceded Win3.x and Win9x.

Find a 360 on craigslist or something that is RRoD or something for like 10 dollars. Look on youtube for fix solutions. You dont need an electronics degree to do this. Fix the problem. Move to 360 if you are on ps2. Simple.

Or get with the times and get a PC for like 50 bucks and be pro.

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Originally Posted by Zerich

lol, no you aren't. good try though.

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I'm not a PC player? You're an idiot if you think PS2 holds the game back.

It all comes down to JP onry.

Man, still no reply from a dev? why wont they come out and just say: You have to get a PC/Xbox or it will be downloadable to PS2 users in NA? Or that they're still working out a way to get the expansion to PS2 users? Id like to know what the deal is so i can start sorting out my options.

I agree, we actually deserve an answer from the devs on this one.

As horrible as their update system is I seriously doubt it could handle the traffic of such a hefty download.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

But today's PCs are completely compatible with Windows 3.1 and earlier. Intel CPUs now support 64bit and have twice the number of registers but completely backward compatible with any PC that conforms to IBM's original specs for it's PS/2 line. And the PS2 CPU is quite a bit more sophisticated than Intel's processors.

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Windows 7 64 does not natively support 16 bit programs. Most new PCs come with the 64 bit version to make use of 4gb+ RAM If you want to run Win 3.1, or DOS programs, on a 64 bit machine, then you need an emulator to do so. Even getting older 32 bit programs running properly can be tricky.

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Originally Posted by Tsuneo

I'm not a PC player? You're an idiot if you think PS2 holds the game back.

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woah bro, no need to start with the name-calling. if you have used your "context-clues" you'd realize that your undying defense for the ps2 console would lead anyone who can read to believe that you play on the ps2-version.

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Originally Posted by Zerich

woah bro, no need to start with the name-calling. if you have used your "context-clues" you'd realize that your undying defense for the ps2 console would lead anyone who can read to believe that you play on the ps2-version.

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I don't play on PS2. I don't support ignorance, nor will I ever support ignorance. If I have to defend PS2 to combat ignorance, I will do just that.

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Originally Posted by lowkey

Windows 7 64 does not natively support 16 bit programs. Most new PCs come with the 64 bit version to make use of 4gb+ RAM If you want to run Win 3.1, or DOS programs, on a 64 bit machine, then you need an emulator to do so. Even getting older 32 bit programs running properly can be tricky.

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Windows 7 includes a copy of Virtual PC which will run any version of Windows. That's all you need.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Windows 7 includes a copy of Virtual PC which will run any version of Windows. That's all you need.

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Then you are kind of doing what FFXI does....you are emulating another operating environment inside a virtual machine. In other words, (as lowkey pointed out) you are not running it natively.

Also, you may have to actually download that copy of Virtual PC (does not always come installed), and....depending on your system, it may not have hardware supported virtualization, which can open another can of worms. Sounds even a bit more like what goes on with FFXI, eh?

Naten, here's your reply:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Greetings,

I’d like to take a moment to clarify which platform Seekers of Adoulin will be available on for those that have been asking. We will continue to support North American FINAL FANTASY XI players on the PlayStation 2, Xbox 360 and PC (Windows) platforms. However, FINAL FANTASY XI: Seekers of Adoulin will only be available on the Xbox 360 and Windows platforms in North America when it is released in 2013.

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Sorry. Time to get a pc!

Their wording doesn't say there will never be PS2 release. I don't know if it was intentional or not. They should have just been blunt about it, so we can get the whining done with now.

Only today's SE could take such a momentous occasion in the history of the game and turn it into such a controversy. They must be looping Benny Hill through their offices 24/7 to produce this level of derp.

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Originally Posted by lowkey

Windows 7 64 does not natively support 16 bit programs. Most new PCs come with the 64 bit version to make use of 4gb+ RAM If you want to run Win 3.1, or DOS programs, on a 64 bit machine, then you need an emulator to do so. Even getting older 32 bit programs running properly can be tricky.

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32bit programs run natively on x64-windows though, so older 32-bit programs are incompatible with win7 because it's win7, not because of 32/64 bit differences. As a side note, however: Some 32bit games use 16bit installers, such as need for speed 2 and 3 (i wanted to play you and I hate you :((((( )

Anyway, talking about hardware, all x64 CPUs actually have the sufficient instructions and modes needed to natively run 16 bit programs. That's why running a 16-bit program inside a 32bit Windows Virtual machine on a x64bit windows isn't *really* emulation, but virtualization.

The difference might not be obvious, but there is a distinction between the two. Emulation generally involves "translating" instructions from one system to instructions that the current system's CPU understands. In the case of 16-bit on 64bit via virtualization, I am pretty sure the CPU executes the 16 bit program's instructions without them being translated to other instructions.

Likewise, WINE on Linux in order to run Windows applications isn't emulation in the same sense as (for example) zsnes, because these Linux systems run hardware that is more or less 100% compatible with the hardware Windows systems run on. That's why WINE usually sees far less performance loss compared to emulations of entire hardware systems.

Although, if someone who is actually really hardcore at virtualization comes in here and tells me I'm wrong now, I won't feel insulted.

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Originally Posted by Tsuneo

I'm not a PC player? You're an idiot if you think PS2 holds the game back.

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No PS2 doesn't hold it back, but Yes, PS2 can't handle much, to anything new. Heck it couldn't even handle small UI changes, let alone the big ones coming.

It also is Outdated junk, just an FYI.

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Originally Posted by Tsuneo

I don't play on PS2. I don't support ignorance, nor will I ever support ignorance. If I have to defend PS2 to combat ignorance, I will do just that.

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Ignorance of what? What am I void of understanding and knowledge from that you are well versed in?

@ Mirage: Clarification noted. Kinda the same thing with FFXI--not really emulation, but run in a wrapper. Kinda the same thing with the XP environment in Win7. The real point though is that the older software doesn't run natively within the scope of Win7--you have to inject that extra layer of code in there to make it run in the newer environment, and for most people that got win7 Home on the more affordable systems, they don't get the virtualization piece (has to be Pro or Ultimate). FFXI has to go through more or less the same thing--without the wrapper, it won't run in Windows.

It all boils down to the PS2 is legacy hardware/software that eventually will no longer be supported by it's designers, and will eventually be dropped, whereas even though Windows/*nix/Apple will continue to provide a means to "upconvert" existing software to the newer OS environments with far less impact than what you deal with when converting a to a newer console (in the case of the PS series, as they are always vastly different components in play). Oftentimes, the only way to justify porting to the newer console is if you plan to do a relaunch of the title---ie: Shadow of the Colossus/IQO HD re-release.