Dancer merrit-Ability Adjustments . Players Opinions.

If they instead make samba have reduced recast timer during saber dance, I think I have more reason to keep fan dance lower.

yea longer Duration is nice and all, but when are we going to get see something that boosts the effect.

i guess im the only one willing to be content with the planned changes? i mostly see just complaints

EDIT: Boost the effect? like maybe those relic +2's do?

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Originally Posted by Tile

yea longer Duration is nice and all, but when are we going to get see something that boosts the effect.

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

EDIT: Boost the effect? like maybe those relic +2's do?

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And those Haste Samba Merits?

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

i guess im the only one willing to be content with the planned changes? i mostly see just complaints

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Fan Dance adjustment is absolutely worthless aside from the free 3min recast @ 1 merit. Saber Dance adjustment is kind of like pretzels. It's not what you want, but you eat them anyway because they're around.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Fan Dance adjustment is absolutely worthless aside from the free 3min recast @ 1 merit. Saber Dance adjustment is kind of like pretzels. It's not what you want, but you eat them anyway because they're around.

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You pretty much just nailed 90% of what these Merit Adjustments have been. I"m not in the slightest surprised that this one was situational and not entirely a huge upgrade, just like Assassin's Charge, Feint, Warrior's Charge, etc etc all were "Okay" Additions, BUt nothing game changing.

Its not that I don't understand the idea of wanting more, But what was to be expected? Almost all of the other reduced timer Merit updates were mediocre at best.

And calling something absolutely worthless aside from Clearing up 4 Merit slots to adjust to other areas is a bit silly. Then again I'm not too keen on what DNC's merit this days, BUt I imagine clearly up 4 spots could call for some readjusting of your cat. 2, Which could be the real bonus.

well i have 5/5 fan dance already cause i do alot of solo so i find its adjsutments very nice. granted now i may make some changes, but i def dont see these things as worthless.

Really? The Samba everyone uses is haste Samba. That costs a whopping 35 TP. Duration now is 1:30, or, 23 TP per minute. What is the new duration per merit level? I haven't seen any numbers. If it is double, then the cost would be 12 TP per minute - a saving of 12 TP per minute.

Really? You would barely notice that on a parse. SE seems to have a habit of making adjustments that make imperceptible differences and calling them earth shattering.

Now, if you really want to make a difference, look at the effect of the merit ability themselves. Have each merit lift the decay floor of the effect. For SD, after 30 seconds, the DA rate would decay to 20%, 25%, 30%, 35%, 40%. Same for the damage reduction of FD.

Now you'd have something.

144 seconds with AF1 head.

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

well i have 5/5 fan dance already cause i do alot of solo so i find its adjsutments very nice. granted now i may make some changes, but i def dont see these things as worthless.

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Stop using it as a crutch and learn to solo without Fan Dance.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Clearing up 4 Merit slots to adjust to other areas

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Real DNC don't 5/5 Fan Dance now! No merit slots were gained from the Fan Dance adjustment!

I think Karbuncle's talking about Saber (going 1/5 rather than 5/5), which was my original point, though again I agree with you that Etoile +2 makes it moot.

Though it's hard to complain about anything today because Hotkey FFXI :D :D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Real DNC don't 5/5 Fan Dance now! No merit slots were gained from the Fan Dance adjustment!

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Then asbolutely nothing will chang efor "real DNCs" Except getting full 5/5 Pre-Adjustment benefits for 1 single merit. Seems like even a bigger gain than clearing up 4 merits if one had 5/5'd Fan Dance in my eyes.

This adjustment may not have bring DNC's back into being useful for anything but white procs in Dynamis, But its on average with about what allt he other adjustments have been.

I don't think anything they could have changed for Saber Dance would have made DNC Mainstream again, So we should hold out for something a long that line in the near future when all the merit adjustments are done... We'll go sit next to THF, SMN, and RDM. You can sit next to RDM though, He smells.

Well, I actually used Fan Dance today guys!

First off, I'd like to say that overall I'm both surprised, disappointed, and excited about the new changes. I'm surprised that they chose to add these specific enhancements. I'm disappointed that they didn't add enhancements that made more sense. Finally, I'm excited that they didn't choose to nerf Saber/Fan Dance and force us to restore them using tier 2 merit points.


I feel what you're saying, Camate, but the adjustment is too weak for the additional effect you've named to make any real impact. With +15 seconds per additional merit level, I would be much happier. Then we can activate Saber Dance and Haste Samba at the same time.

It's not about losing a nominal amount of TP. It's about the JA delay and how often you have to pause to maintain an essential buff. It's like asking RDMs to cast Refresh on themselves once every 2.5 minutes. For a long time it was the brutal standard, but eventually you guys were like, "Hey, it would be an incredibly minor enhancement from a Balance-perspective and an incredibly major enhancement from a gameplay-perspective if we just let them cast three times less often!" Thus, Composure was born. Saber Dance could have been our Composure.

120 seconds : current
144 seconds : Test Server with 5/5 Saber Dance
180 seconds : What I'd like, = to Saber Dance's recast timer


Twashtar/Pugiunculus (new dagger) with one healer supporting you :
176/150 delay w/ 48% DW = 84 delay per hand = 4.2 base TP
4.2 base TP w/ 21 STP = 5 TP/hit
5 TP/84-delay hit, 50% Haste (Spell, Samba, Gear Haste), 33% DA, 8% TA = 10.45 TP per second

All considered, activating Haste Samba inefficiently costs us ~56 TP (2 seconds lost, 35 TP cost).

Currently, this represents 4.5% of our TP gain in the same amount of time.
On the test server, this represents 3.7% of our TP gain in the same amount of time.
With what I proposed, this would represent 3% of our TP gain in the same amount of time and would be much more convenient to activate.

A good dancer has 2 minute samba..... If you're not macroing afv1 head, you doing it wrong. Look at the bright side. We get to 1/5 saber dance and fan dance if we desire, opening some acc/evasion or max no foot raise. Job is getting a boost and people are complaining it's getting a boost because it's not big enough.....really? They could just realize dnc is already amazing and nerf us. Be happy with what we got lol.

loving the fan dance adjustment, means I can do something really stupid every 3 min instead of 5!
seriously though, if it's dead it can't hit you back. 5/5 SD
only time I use FD is for red life, or I pulled 5+ mobs accidentally in dyna, coupled with trance to stabilize, or if no procs came up in VW and it's looking at me with no fanatics

So for anybody who didn't know:

The merits are a 5% increase past the first per merit for both for a total of 20% samba duration increase and 20% waltz recast reduction. Thats an extra 18 seconds to sambas. I guess if you combine the FD merits with the -2 second reduction head you can... push V's recast down to what IV's is...

I feel like both are pretty underwhelming - was atleast expecting a flat 10 seconds per merit to be added to samba duration so the biggest boon to these merits still seems to be AF2+2's effect regardless.

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Originally Posted by Shibayama

So for anybody who didn't know:

The merits are a 5% increase past the first per merit for both for a total of 20% samba duration increase and 20% waltz recast reduction. Thats an extra 18 seconds to sambas. I guess if you combine the FD merits with the -2 second reduction head you can... push V's recast down to what IV's is...

I feel like both are pretty underwhelming - was atleast expecting a flat 10 seconds per merit to be added to samba duration so the biggest boon to these merits still seems to be AF2+2's effect regardless.

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That is so laughingly ridiculous. Serious?

Yup - So assuming that you did go 5/5 on fan with the expansion head with waltz -2 on it your timers for all waltzes from III would be:

Curing Waltz V: 16 (from 24)
Curing Waltz IV: 12 (from 17)
Curing Waltz III: 6 (from 10)

Divine II: 14 (from 20)

Healing: 10 (from 15)

So you'd be sacrificing 5-8% potency (depending on if you have the Khepri Bonnet which most of us most likely won't have anytime soon) for roughly one third or so of the recast time for waltzes shaved off with merits + head while fan is up.

As far as the saber merits go, you really have no compelling reason to merit it to 5/5 other than to get the awesome full 5% DA enhancement from Etoile +2 which is a shame because I was really expecting to get atleast 40 or so extra seconds out of it. Oh well.

I went and tested out the new Apollyon zone on the test server. It's a bunch of demons that can 2-hour. I think I used Fan Dance . . . once? Against the boss? Really what I needed was more damage (rode Saber). I could barely kill an entire group of demons in half an hour (mostly because the bosses had so much HP).

But yeah, if I can solo content that isn't even released yet and is designed for a party without using Fan Dance, what is a possible justification for it?

Dnc can without much effort, get 26% waltz potency and be using desulter -5 cost and -2 delay head.

I---what? ....

An extra 18 seconds to Haste Samba with 5/5 Saber Dance is very... underwhelming. If it weren't for the Relic+2 Pants augment, I would be removing 4 of my merits from Saber Dance.

24 seconds, unless they nerfed it?

Oh yes, because 24 secs is much better... (Isn't 20% of 90 secs only 18 secs? or does it also apply to the additional 30 secs from Artifact Head?)

It also applies to AF head.

But yeah, you can look up and see my opinions on the subject. +20% is a stupidly short duration increase.

Yeah, I just checked... oh boy 24 secs.

What would have been good to see would have been a static increase. Ideally an extra 1 min duration to make Haste Samba recast coincide with Saber Dance recast, but I suppose that would be too much to hope for. Once pants come out that are better than the Relic+2, I may be dumping some of my Saber Dance merits.

looking back on things i guess i actually havent soloed much with fan dance since maybe 90 or so was the last time, been busy on other jobs and group things where i am another job. but i mostly used it for the mobs that hit me for like 500-700 dmg regularly (AKA no crit).

seems like that one cockatrice in altepa abby comes to mind. but that was all a learning experience as i was doin it. droppin those hard hits down to less than 20 dmg a hit when he would get thru shadows was a godsend. i didnt have much of a pdt set back then either. he could mute and stone me so those times i had fan dance up could be life savers.

and since then when i am dnc if i ever end up using my tp more for curing and it gets more difficult to actually mount an offense i start using fan dance and generally makes everything easier (sometimes its less bout how fast i can kill that NM nobody else is waiting on but how stressful it can be for me NOTE: im not one of those solo it for an hour kinda guys btw).

usually when i try something for the first time i try it with fan dance and usually end up just using haste samba pretty quickly in the end. with the changes now i may just cut it down to 1/5 fan dance or cut it all together. with the ease of things with level 99 and a new whm mule it just isnt worth as much.