New to Blu and have a few questions... (can't find answers)

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

That depends, is their full time complete rubbish when better gear is easily available? Than yeah, I'd agree they are noobs. Is their gear the result of blood sweat and tears? Than you are worse than a noob for calling them a noob. Get over yourself already.

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Full-timing gear leads to performance being complete rubbish, so yes not swapping gear when you've been made aware of the benefits it offers makes you a noob.

There are no gear sets that are acceptable to full-time on any job.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

Ok so you don't know what an average is or how basic probability works. Good to know.

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As a matter of fact I do. If something is an average you should expect to see it 50% of the time or more. In a rational world. But apparently you've forgotten one minor detail: Squaresuck made the game and they like to stack the deck.

...thanks for once again proving that you don't know what an average is. You don't seem to realize that I incorporated all of the randomizers as averages as well, meaning that is the average damage after randomization. This further cements the fact that you are talking out of your ass.... not like we needed more evidence.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

As a matter of fact I do. If something is an average you should expect to see it 50% of the time or more.

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Oh dear...

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

As a matter of fact I do. If something is an average you should expect to see it 50% of the time or more. In a rational world. But apparently you've forgotten one minor detail: Squaresuck made the game and they like to stack the deck.

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Please stop posting.

Noones commented on the percents yet? 5,000,000 is only a 20% increase from 1,000,000? Come on guys.

Missed that tbh, there's so much idiocy for me to process that my brain is blocking some of it out.

Dear Trisscar,

I'd like to give you some heartfelt advice. You should really consider the possibility that you might be mistaken about a few things. I've seen you state a number of points, including inaccurate mathematical arguments, as though they were true and correct. And while certain parts of the argument you are attempting to defend are indeed matters of personal opinion (and thereby up for debate, even if you are in the minority), defending them adequately is virtually impossible if you are attempting to back up your arguments with "facts" that are mathematically and logically false.

You aren't helping your cause at this point. You may want to step back, calm down, actually accept that your understanding of things might be a bit off, and ask people to explain them to you. Once you have your numbers right (and your general understanding of math has improved) then from there, you can choose to continue to argue your personal opinion, or perhaps (*gasp*) even find you may want to modify it in light of your new found information.

In either case, continuing to staunchly defend your opinion, with examples that clearly indicate that you severely lack the understanding of how math works, is just making you seem ignorant. You don't really want people to think you are ignorant, do you? Of course not.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Weapon_Skill_Damage

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Seen that a long time ago, but hey let's take a good look at it and see just why it's wrong:

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Originally Posted by Bluegatr

Physical WS Damage Calculation:
WD: Base damage of your WS
D: Base damage of your weapon (e.g., Espadon = 43)
fSTR: difference between your STR and target's VIT. This can be capped (see below).
WSC: Secondary attribute like STR_30 (30% of your STR).
fTP: Multiplier (Please see chart below).
PDIF: (your ATK/target’s DEF) Caps at 2.4 for melee attacks and 3 for ranged attacks.

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Let's focus on fSTR, the difference between your STR and your target's (as in the mob's) VIT. Let me clarify just why this particular part of the equation is flat out wrong: Show me the link where (say) Akvan's VIT is shown with any certainty. Can't do that? How about the one with the book's (that which I cheerfully call Necronomicon) VIT? Can't do that either? How about Voidwrought's? Any of the LWNM? Any mob at all? Can't do that?

Want to know why? Because they're not known. The entire equation (while well thought out) has an unknowable unknown, thus it's unreliable. Which also applies to the part with pDIF, because since all other attributes can only be guestimated on the equation is worthless.

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Originally Posted by Divinius

Dear Trisscar,

I'd like to give you some heartfelt advice. You should really consider the possibility that you might be mistaken about a few things. I've seen you state a number of points, including inaccurate mathematical arguments, as though they were true and correct. And while certain parts of the argument you are attempting to defend are indeed matters of personal opinion (and thereby up for debate, even if you are in the minority), defending them adequately is virtually impossible if you are attempting to back up your arguments with "facts" that are mathematically and logically false.

You aren't helping your cause at this point. You may want to step back, calm down, actually accept that your understanding of things might be a bit off, and ask people to explain them to you. Once you have your numbers right (and your general understanding of math has improved) then from there, you can choose to continue to argue your personal opinion, or perhaps (*gasp*) even find you may want to modify it in light of your new found information.

In either case, continuing to staunchly defend your opinion, with examples that clearly indicate that you severely lack the understanding of how math works, is just making you seem ignorant. You don't really want people to think you are ignorant, do you? Of course not.

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It would help if I had information that isn't five years out of date and based upon unknowns like Akvan's VIT and DEF. If you have some accurate equations I'll be happy to look at them.

Even if you were right in that post (you're not), you're ignoring that your previous calculations are waaaaaay off. For instance, you said 1 dex makes a 600 dmg difference. That is insane. And if that was somehow true, it would prove the point that you need to gear swap for WSs to not suck (you add more than 1 dex in your ws gear).

You're also ignoring the fact that you don't understand %s at all. Everytime you bring them up, you do them ass backwards.


It's ok to be wrong about something, I've been wrong plenty. When it happens, just say oops and move on.

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Originally Posted by Eurell

Noones commented on the percents yet? 5,000,000 is only a 20% increase from 1,000,000? Come on guys.

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The math (from my calculator): 1,000,000*100/5,000,000=20% (and in reverse) 1,000,000*100/20=5,000,000

This isn't anything but simple proportion.

But hey, if you want to make the case that people waste even more on very minor improvements? Be my guest.

You realize that relatively close estimations of VWNM stats based on known stats are accurate enough to be used for maths right? That you can get a completely accurate value for mob VIT/DEF with enough tests? Can your brain grasp this concept? You assuming to condemn BG Wiki for being wrong in its equations is absolutely laughable.

When the first hole gets too deep, try to dig another to draw attention from the first.

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Originally Posted by Eurell

Even if you were right in that post (you're not), you're ignoring that your previous calculations are waaaaaay off. For instance, you said 1 dex makes a 600 dmg difference. That is insane. And if that was somehow true, it would prove the point that you need to gear swap for WSs to not suck (you add more than 1 dex in your ws gear).

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I said that DEX (as far as CDC is concerned) DEX modifier is 60%, which I take to mean that for every point of damage there's an additional .60 damage for every point of DEX. Do you have a reliable equation?

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Originally Posted by Eurell

You're also ignoring the fact that you don't understand %s at all. Everytime you bring them up, you do them ass backwards.

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That may be so, I never did like working with percents.

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Originally Posted by Eurell

It's ok to be wrong about something, I've been wrong plenty. When it happens, just say oops and move on.

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I am wrong, most likely. I'm probably working with the wrong numbers and equations, but there doesn't seem to be anything reliable out there.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

I said that DEX (as far as CDC is concerned) DEX modifier is 60%, which I take to mean that for every point of damage there's an additional .60 damage for every point of DEX. Do you have a reliable equation?

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Do you have a brain?

At 99, WSC = floor(floor((a x a%) + (b x b%)) x 0.85) this has been known for five years or more. Mathematical functions do not change that quickly, or ever.

WTH did i just read... dear god...

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Originally Posted by Nala

WTH did i just read... dear god...

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A steadfast denial of mathematics.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

You realize that relatively close estimations of VWNM stats based on known stats are accurate enough to be used for maths right? That you can get a completely accurate value for mob VIT/DEF with enough tests? Can your brain grasp this concept? You assuming to condemn BG Wiki for being wrong in its equations is absolutely laughable.

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Where on this page do you see Akvan's VIT/DEF stated in any aspect? Or any other stats for that mater? It's HP/MP? Anything? Oh, yeah. Those aren't known.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

When the first hole gets too deep, try to dig another to draw attention from the first.

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Beats keep on digging in the first hole. By the way have you heard that first rule about holes? When you're in one... stop digging Prothscar.

yeah... just my brain's having a hard time processing the whole of this thread is all... anyways back to lurking for me.

or not, LOL he needs to keep digging? quit while your in last place, they're about to lap you.

You're attempting to discredit information that's been concrete and accepted by 99% of the population for five years+, you're the one in the position of requiring proof.

Unlike you, I have an IQ higher than that of a goldfish, and thus can facilitate some level of certainty over an average VWNM's stats. Nowhere in my calculations did I mention Akvan. You're grasping at straws and attempting to materialize an argument that doesn't even exist because you're wrong and cannot accept it. Just shut the fuck up so we can all save some brain cells.

Even if you don't like working with percents, how can you possibly make going from 1,000,000 to 5,000,000 out to be a 20% increase?

Changing the fundamental laws of reality is easy when you have to do it to attempt at winning an argument.

It's impossible to add how much dmg people did to a mob to figure out it's HP guys.

1 + x = 3

x = Impossible to know.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

1 + x = 3

x = Impossible to know.

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/thread

Fucking lol.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

You're attempting to discredit information that's been concrete and accepted by 99% of the population for five years+,

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Argument ad populatum (spelling). And this would be the same population that pushed myths about moon phases and synth/farm results for around 4 years before they were ultimately dispelled by Squaresuck?

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

you're the one in the position of requiring proof.

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Yes I do require proof, which you must provide because the burden of proof requires that someone making a positive claim (you making the claim that stats or a close estimate exists, for example) must provide evidence. I trust you'll be doing that sometime soon?

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

*Snip unrelated personal attack* and thus can facilitate some level of certainty over an average VWNM's stats. Nowhere in my calculations did I mention Akvan.

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We're talking LWNM, so of course a LWNM name will pop up. What did you think I was going to bring up, Charby? In any case if you know where these stats are the burden of proof is on you to provide the, because without any evidence to contrary the only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that they don't exist and the equation you flaunt is inaccurate at the least.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

At 99, WSC = floor(floor((a x a%) + (b x b%)) x 0.85)

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Thank you for the equation, but what does floor mean? A? B?

The game doesn't work by the math, heard it here first.

Insaniac's post pretty much sums up your argument about Vit.

Holy fucking lol

Feel free to provide me with evidence of how your idea of an average works, how math that we've been using for years is wrong, and how you get 1,000,000 -> 5,000,000 as legitimately being a 20% increase.

Until then, I think we're done here. Congrats on becoming the latest laughing stock of XI.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

We're talking LWNM, so of course a LWNM name will pop up. What did you think I was going to bring up, Charby? In any case if you know where these stats are the burden of proof is on you to provide the, because without any evidence to contrary the only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that they don't exist and the equation you flaunt is inaccurate at the least.

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Even if that were true, it's nowhere near as inaccurate and outright WRONG as the maths and percentages you have presented for us in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

1 + x = 3

x = Impossible to know.

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Someone give this man an internet.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Argument ad populatum (spelling). And this would be the same population that pushed myths about moon phases and synth/farm results for around 4 years before they were ultimately dispelled by Squaresuck?

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Woah woah woah. You have the nerve to get on SE's own website and bash them?! I'll have you know you're the most elitist one out of the bunch. SE is a great company. SE does lots of good stuff. I enjoy their product. In particular, their assortment of mythic weapons. I especially like that Ryunohige they made.

Please show me the math that proves that Ryunohiges exist.

Ryunohige formula: (30000*100/3 + 50/50) - 150000/100000 = 15%.

so because we can prove the equation works vs monsters with known stats, the fact there are monsters without known stats or at least lack of free information of known stats the equation is now inaccurate... christ do you listen to yourself before posting?

also given known factors you can easily derive a mob's stats, probably one of the better ways is ranged attacks considering their consistency.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

Ryunohige formula: (30000*100/3 + 50/50) - 150000/100000 = 15%.

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What is this "+" symbol you keep using?

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Please show me the math that proves that Ryunohiges exist.

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I think you're expected to prove that math exists first.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

What is this "+" symbol you keep using?

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"Less than"

Please excuse me a moment while I locate someone who can explain what floor means in that equation. As well as help me find the information I require about the LWNM.

floor is basically rounding down to the nearest whole number, in other words truncating the decimals. floor(1.99) =1

ps: google too hard for you?

I find it especially amusing how Trisscar keeps bringing up percentage values that are....just wow. 1293~>1729=74% increase! huh?!? 1mil~>5mil is 20% increase! wut?!?! Best part.....What is floor? What is a? b? Oh god, I can't breath...going to pass out from laughing too much.

On a serious note, I have to ask this: What is your highest completed education level that you are arguing against known mathematical equation and variable usage? Honestly, I thought they started teaching this sort of thing as early as 7th or 8th grade. Unless...of course...you were one of those people that said "I'll never need this in life." I would hope you know what PEMDAS means...it'll help you with those long equation strings so you do the proper steps in correct order.

All of your questions about how the equation works, what Floor is, what represents 'a' and 'b' (pst, tells you at WSC) is explained through various source links (something BGwiki requires for all articles to remain published, similar to news reports, biographies, scientific theory....). It tells you in divided articles how to work the different functions of the equation into the final equation to gain projected WS damage.

And for the record 20% of 1mil is 200,000 (thus a 20% mark up is 1.2mil, not 5mil). 5mil is an ~500% mark up, and honestly not something new with NQ to HQ price difference. I can remember when the difference between a NQ and HQ was about 10-15mil, but the economy was inflated at the time also. The difference between 1293 and 1729 is actually ~25% increase rounded (you confused 1293/1729=.7478..... when that only shows that 1293 is ~75% of 1729). The flaws in your math speak louder than anything else you say trying to disprove that swapping gear increases overall damage output and performance.

Do yourself a favor and stop. Take a deep breath, drink some tea, and read over the information people are linking you to. When you just glance over it then blow steam in a slew of mathematically incorrect information you only harm yourself.

PS: Before you can attack it, ~ means approximately by the context I am using it in.

PPS: Also, if I thought it would help I would link you to studio gobli, but given the lack of patience in reading articles and source material via prior bgwiki links I hardly doubt you'll have the patience to look over a JP based web site to gather the necessary information to meet your burden of proof. Not to mention there has been various discussions on the BG forums about projected VWNM stats based off collected data. Burden of Proof is not something you toss out just because you don't have the patience to look it up yourself, it is something you use when there is no information found via available search methods to prove a statement.