Linkshell Member online notifications.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Convenience? Stimulating social interaction? It works well in every current gen MMO. If you're in a Linkshell where you feel harassed or pressured to attend things (that you didn't agree to do) then you've got bigger problems than worrying about the introduction of such a feature.

If you're not in a Linkshell like that, what's the problem?


A lot of people seem to be using the excuse "what if I want to hide" as a reason against such a feature. There's nothing to say an option can't be added into POL to disable it before logging into the game (something that only has to be set once). Hell, it could be disabled by default.

It's the same as the /tell filters that were added to the game for spam. You could have lost legitimate messages. But there was an option to disable/enable it.

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Convenience would be more compelling if not for the fact that people are expressing concerns about the notification being unwanted and somewhat invasive. I agree it'd be convenient, but as our moogle-faced friend pointed out, you have to weigh that against the desire for some modicum of privacy.

I also agree that options are good. If there are sufficient options then there shouldn't be an issue.

To people like Dazusu, only those who want something matters, not those who may oppose it. Since I mean, you can't talk to anyone or be social without these features apparently...

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Originally Posted by Arcon

We've already said why checking the LS doesn't help. But it's ok, reading comprehension is not required on these forums. Also, nothing suggested is ever needed, and very little is actually broken. Stuff is wanted, that's the sole reason why things are being suggested, and it's a perfectly valid motivation for suggestions. Also, Camate isn't wasting his time on anything, as he's not a dev. If you actually wanna appeal to anyone (without any sort of effect, obviously, as you don't get a say in the matter), learn japanese and tell the devs themselves.

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Camate is part of the team that translates and delivers the information posted on the forums to the development team. So if I log on, you can't select "linkshell" >>> "see members" or watch the /l-chat if my name pops up with me saying something? The suggestion to have something like "Person1 has entered the linkshell" is completely superfluous as the inevitable "Hey ls" that usually proceeds.

Btw, thanks for calling me stupid. Real mature.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

To people like Dazusu, only those who want something matters, not those who may oppose it. Since I mean, you can't talk to anyone or be social without these features apparently...

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The point of my post was to counter those arguing it. The main argument is: "I want to hide", my reply is "Add an invisible option to the proposed feature"

If you want to oppose the suggestion - that's great. Acting surprised or playing the defensive when there's a simple counter to your objection is silly, though.

If you're going to try be sarcastic about it, at least put forth enough intelligence to show that you understand the difference between 'stimulate' and 'enable'.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

The point of my post was to counter those arguing it. The main argument is: "I want to hide", my reply is "Add an invisible option to the proposed feature"

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Such an option would be turned off (no notification) by default and stay there for the majority of players.
I guess SE could add it for the socialites that can't live without twitter, facebook, and whatever else is the trending hype on social interaction, but I much prefer the more personal approach of someone doing his own greeting.

Atlantica Online has something like this: whenever I log in, a line in the chat log that seems to be server-wide pops up that shows a "greeting" from my character. It is customizable and I see the most random stuff when people log in. Haha.

Apperently looking at the link list to see who's on is too hard.

Hello everyone!

Firstly, thank you all for posting your views on the merits of having or not having the implementation of a notification for when someone log on to a linkshell. Though please do ensure that your posts remain on topic for this thread and please do not post to attack others. Otherwise the thread will have to be closed down. Thank you again to everyone for posting here and have an excellent day.

I say this will only accomplish 2 things.
1.) Annoy 75%+ of the player base.
2.) Slow the servers down excessively wth added data tracking.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

I say this will only accomplish 2 things.
1.) Annoy 75%+ of the player base.

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Set it off by default and that number gets reduced to 0%.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

2.) Slow the servers down excessively wth added data tracking.

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False.

The only thing it will do is streamline gameplay/communication for everyone, even the people who don't see (or wanna see) the benefits now.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

False.

The only thing it will do is streamline gameplay/communication for everyone, even the people who don't see (or wanna see) the benefits now.

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It's will be an incredibly high amount of additional information across the entire server, constantly. Your "streamline" would slow the game down.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

It's will be an incredibly high amount of additional information across the entire server, constantly. Your "streamline" would slow the game down.

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Stop posting your misinformed garbage all across the forums. You clearly have no idea about anything at all.

Here's the amount of information that it will send:
- Less than a byte when logging on.
- Less than a byte when logging off.

How is that "an incredibly high amount", and what do you mean "across the entire server"? If you mean it's getting sent to everyone who is connected that's bullshit. It will (logically) only be sent to your LS. It's the same "incredibly high amount of [..] information" as sending "/" to your LS chat (a lot less even, as I've heard FFXI chat is encoded using UTF-16, where even 1 bit would be enough for this, plus a header). So that's less than what would happen if people actually said "Hi" instead.

If you wanna argue, fine, go ahead and argue, but stop making shit up to bring your point across.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

It's will be an incredibly high amount of additional information across the entire server, constantly. Your "streamline" would slow the game down.

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Stop posting your misinformed garbage all across the forums. You clearly have no idea about anything at all.

Here's the amount of information that it will send:
- Less than a byte when logging on.
- Less than a byte when logging off.

How is that "an incredibly high amount", and what do you mean "across the entire server"? If you mean it's getting sent to everyone who is connected that's bullshit. It will (logically) only be sent to your LS. It's the same "incredibly high amount of [..] information" as sending "/" to your LS chat (a lot less even, as I've heard FFXI chat is encoded using UTF-16, where even 1 bit would be enough for this, plus a header). So that's less than what would happen if people actually said "Hi" instead.

If you wanna argue, fine, go ahead and argue, but stop making shit up to bring your point across.

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The only incorrect part was 'incredibly high'. This feature would indeed be causing a server load and sending data around non-stop, because people are logging in and out non-stop. Depending on the linkshell and friendlist size, you're looking at 64+100 messages per person (at max). Each of those 164 needs to looked up and checked for online status.

Those are not going to be 1-bit or byte messages, more like 100 bytes with headers and message content.

And no, that's not a lot, but with communications being limited by the PS2, every little byte adds up. For PC it's laughable, but with PS2 this needs carefull consideration.

When servers are brought down or up, or even just a provider deciding to block FFXI for w/e reason, this could cause a cascade of messages, crashing clients or even whole servers. Unlikely to see it actually happen, but it is something to consider with a feature like this running on ancient hardware like PS2. It's barely capable of keeping up with normal gameplay as it is...

To what advantage is this a requirement? If I leave my char logged into the game 24/7 you still wont have the information you want?

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Originally Posted by Kristal

The only incorrect part was 'incredibly high'. This feature would indeed be causing a server load and sending data around non-stop, because people are logging in and out non-stop. Depending on the linkshell and friendlist size, you're looking at 64+100 messages per person (at max). Each of those 164 needs to looked up and checked for online status.

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Even in that absurdly large case that's still nothing.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

Those are not going to be 1-bit or byte messages, more like 100 bytes with headers and message content.

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What message content? All that needs to be transmitted is the name of the person and an ID for the action, which is "logon" or "logoff" or "disconnect" or whatever else they can think of. The ID would be deciphered client side. That's how everything else works.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

And no, that's not a lot, but with communications being limited by the PS2, every little byte adds up. For PC it's laughable, but with PS2 this needs carefull consideration.

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Here I gave an example of a common VW battle and all associated data that is transmitted constantly:

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Originally Posted by Arcon

To bring the point across I'll choose a common battle scenario, a VW battle with 18 participants. The following data is transmitted constantly, often several times within a few seconds, from the server:

• The entire alliance's HP, MP and TP. That's 18x3 numerical values.
• Every characters position within a ~50' radius around you. In crowded areas that can include over 100 characters. The x, y and z coordinates are transmitted, so 25x3 numerical values (assuming 18 people in the alliance, 1 VW mob and 6 random objects around, NQ mobs or clickable targets or whatever).
• Every character's percentual HP, as a numerical value. 25x1 values.
• Every character's movement speed, as a a floating point value. 25x1 values.
• Every character's current target, as a numerical ID. 25x1 value.
• Every status effect a character receives and loses, as a numerical ID. Depends on how many status effects change, which can be pretty variable. But considering VW, where buffs and debuffs happen all the time, including buffs that give or remove several status effects, we can reasonably assume it's always more than one, in the same time as the other events described here. Hence, 19x1 values (one for the mob).
• Every action performed and attack landed. This is probably the largest portion of all of the information, but as with status effects this is also very variable and hard to approximate. So let's floor this as well to 19x1 values.

That's 242 values that have to be sent to the client. Not once, but periodically, in a hectic battle several times within only a few seconds. I don't even think once a second is an exaggeration, but it's hard to say accurately and it is also highly variable. And note that this is still quite a conservative estimate, I could easily see this number doubled.

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You're saying PS2 can handle all of that, but it can't handle people saying "hello" when they log on? (Note that this would even be a lot less than saying hello, as no message will have to be sent, which is the major part of the transmission.) This is also data that is constantly transmitted to everyone in range, so 242 values sent to 18 people. Sending one single (empty) value to 30 people (which is a much more realistic number) is completely negligible compared to that.

Also, the PS2 is not limited by network traffic any more than the PC. It's only lacking in the memory and processing department.

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Originally Posted by katz

To what advantage is this a requirement? If I leave my char logged into the game 24/7 you still wont have the information you want?

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I will, because I will know that you're always online. And I will also see it if you happen to d/c, for whatever reason.

I would like this feature... it would help solve those pesky anonymous flyby rogue pearlsacks who kick innocent people.