Blu Tp Set and WS set Suggestions for upgrade :D

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Originally Posted by VZX

Full timing Fanatic's drink and call it tanking >.>. Yes, the fact tanking in VW is as ridiculously easy as that, I hardly see any point wielding 2x PDT sword for any practical uses in VW.

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Hey i need help with my PDT-% set,

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you can't land those consistently with the accuracy of a Staff.

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Its that simple

i'd imagine the set is for CW burns if it includes an Earth Staff. I'd use a pdt sword + shield because you would have to hit your macro twice to equip 2x Swords with the same name. unless windower doesn't have this problem (my dark rings always have this problem but i dont have good ones yet anyways.)

Hmm I can see that, but the only time you need to equip -PDT is before a pull, which I would just do manually (gamepad). Other than that, you only need to macro in Jupiters Staff unless you need to use Whirl of Rage.

typically when im online i need to be doing events or leveling so i've only done CW burns twice. so i need to hit my pdt macro a few times due to not 1-shotting mobs. although i havent tried since CW first came out so it's probably easy to 1-shot now (especially since i have better atmas and gear).

so for starters its good to be set up for Just In Case moments.

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Defiled, didn't you use to be a taru?

hello some advise from me. u need to start trail of magicians, get two macc sticks as this will provide u wit mp to use spells and macc to land ur spells. n then u need to tailor ur gear arund mp and dmg so u will get the best of both wurlds since u can cast a lot more spells.

Well at least obvious troll is obvious.

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Originally Posted by Tashan

Its that simple

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My point is that VW shouldn't be in any scope for discussion on practical use of -PDT set.

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Originally Posted by Tashan

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Defiled, didn't you use to be a taru?

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yes but i didnt pay for my accounts this month and it doesnt let you use your account unless its paid up. my mule was still active until like the 23rd tho so it just switched.

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Originally Posted by VZX

My point is that VW shouldn't be in any scope for discussion on practical use of -PDT set.

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What? If anything VW is one of the most practical applications of a PDT set. You won't always have Fanatics/Fools 24/7.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

What? If anything VW is one of the most practical applications of a PDT set. You won't always have Fanatics/Fools 24/7.

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Yes, like 10 secs in between where it's not guaranteed you will get attention being smacked by physical damage. Stay out of range for 10 secs if it's AoE physical damage? What's wrong with that.

And if you are getting smacked with physical damage, you would be prepared with a PDT set. Seriously, there is no situation where you should not have an optimal PDT set available. Ever. On any job.

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Originally Posted by VZX

Yes, like 10 secs in between where it's not guaranteed you will get attention being smacked by physical damage. Stay out of range for 10 secs if it's AoE physical damage? What's wrong with that.

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It's useful for when you need to hit a proc and fanatics isn't available, or for when you got proc screwed. It sucks when both of your HV procs are something stupid like "PUP Robot WS", a BST pet move, or some spell / effect that the NM is immune to. That happens more then people would like to admit and it's handy to be able to survive and hit V procs and hope to get a fanatics.

It took me thinking quite a while...
Considering how likely your situation happens and qualitatively bad the situation would become if you don't have PDT gear. I still come to the conclusion it's not more important than dealing a couple extra damage on your WS.
If you want to believe a perfected gear on specific situation and certain skill required to execute a task coming from an individual on a 18-man battle with huge noise and randomness is that big, then be my guest. But in reality, it requires that the other 17 people to be insanely dumb or the randomizer need to be extremely lucky to bring the odds where everyone's best bet is certain someone's pdt set (the not dedicated tank).

If you've found 17 other people you can trust, cool. I haven't, and until I do, will be keeping my DT sets.

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Originally Posted by VZX

It took me thinking quite a while...
Considering how likely your situation happens and qualitatively bad the situation would become if you don't have PDT gear. I still come to the conclusion it's not more important than dealing a couple extra damage on your WS.
If you want to believe a perfected gear on specific situation and certain skill required to execute a task coming from an individual on a 18-man battle with huge noise and randomness is that big, then be my guest. But in reality, it requires that the other 17 people to be insanely dumb or the randomizer need to be extremely lucky to bring the odds where everyone's best bet is certain someone's pdt set (the not dedicated tank).

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Who's talking about WS <.<

A PDT set is just a modified TP set that swaps in PDT over regular melee gear. Your going to WS in a WS set in either case. Gear changes are instant, so hit WS macro then immediately hit TP macro as to animation is going off.

And nothing is more important then hitting HV procs on the dangerous ones (not the lol beetle). Having a HV Scholar Abilities and HV Sword sucks on Pil (just for example) if you don't have a fanatics. You need to survive Flank Opening so that you can cycle through the sword procs to refil temps.

And that's just an annoyingly common example.

I always carry my EVA and TP set with me. Shold EVA fail I decide to either prioritise PDT or MDT based on the mob I'm fighting and switch to that.

However, I'm hoping to turn my Full Eva build (which I love) into more of a hybrid Haste build. If done so succesfully, I'll hope to reduce the amount of EVA specific gear I'm carrying and walk around with a PDT or MDT build full time.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Who's talking about WS <.<

A PDT set is just a modified TP set that swaps in PDT over regular melee gear. Your going to WS in a WS set in either case. Gear changes are instant, so hit WS macro then immediately hit TP macro as to animation is going off.

And nothing is more important then hitting HV procs on the dangerous ones (not the lol beetle). Having a HV Scholar Abilities and HV Sword sucks on Pil (just for example) if you don't have a fanatics. You need to survive Flank Opening so that you can cycle through the sword procs to refil temps.

And that's just an annoyingly common example.

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I wasn't talking about WS. It's just a comparison of situation of "how bad it can goes".

I never had a problem getting proc on Pil or bad pickup group that have trouble proc'ing so the fight come into failure. Granted I'll never have to fight it again, but that's as far as my experience goes.

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Originally Posted by Tashan

I always carry my EVA and TP set with me. Shold EVA fail I decide to either prioritise PDT or MDT based on the mob I'm fighting and switch to that.

However, I'm hoping to turn my Full Eva build (which I love) into more of a hybrid Haste build. If done so succesfully, I'll hope to reduce the amount of EVA specific gear I'm carrying and walk around with a PDT or MDT build full time.

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I'm looking for Denali +5 hand, legs, and feet. They are what we can call the real eva+haste set. Without sacrificing haste, we can get even more than what we have now.

Yeah that'll be awesome, especially since my playtime looks to be getting shorter than what it already is.

I'm sure getting the +5 set will be as random as VW though with the floor mechanics of Nyzul 2 ._.

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Originally Posted by VZX

I wasn't talking about WS. It's just a comparison of situation of "how bad it can goes".

I never had a problem getting proc on Pil or bad pickup group that have trouble proc'ing so the fight come into failure. Granted I'll never have to fight it again, but that's as far as my experience goes.


I'm looking for Denali +5 hand, legs, and feet. They are what we can call the real eva+haste set. Without sacrificing haste, we can get even more than what we have now.

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Your lieing, period.

1 EV, 2 HV, 6 V procs, HV and V procs cycle after their hit.

Considering the sheer number of procs available, and the cycleing nature of them, the probability of you and any alliance your in not getting "proc screwed" on any fight ~ever~ is zero.

HV SCH Ability
HV Rabit Pet Abilities

no BST in alliance

How exactly are you going to "not have a problem hitting procs" then.

Pil is a joke until he's got his shield up and wondering around spamming aoe Flank Opening for 1.6~2.4K damage along with ~1500 point -ja's. No temps to refil MP / HP or to block his damage, meaning you gotta take it on the chin.

Please tell me how your going to hit that SCH JA that every NM is immune to, or that BST pet ability without a BST. Or heck even if you had a BST the recall timer is long and Pil is spamming high damage aoe moves. That Rabbit is going to take one to two aoe's Flanks before it dies, and then your screwed waiting on the timer to call another one.

Or how about if it's HV Dark Ninja and ends up being Kurayami on a dark immune monster, you know the ones that like to resist dispel without +m.acc.

So yes, you lieing to support your argument of never requiring a DT/PDT set. Attempting to pound your chest and say how awesome you are because apparently your magical and your very presence ensured that your alliance will never get screwed over on procs.

That's a lot of assumptions to be put on table, isn't it?

And only the proc'd one is replaced with a new one, not the entire set. And hence,
What about the "Leave 1 easy JA proc when shield is up" rule? That's a good rule to follow, assuming everyone listen/hold their party chat line.

I've gotten a screw up in Pil recently. Not simply because the proc set was bad; It was a Great Sword proc with none other than 2 WARs we had(Bravura & Ukon) were capable proc'ing that. It was well over 30 seconds since the proc called and none of the 2 swaped their Great Axe to Great Sword... until the shield was up and proceed screwing everyone.
But since it was a win. I got nothing to complaint with 5~7 extra minutes of handling the bad situation.

And as for DT set in this Pil case,
Even if you have them, you will still rely on Coercion/Tactician roll to accumulate TP.

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So yes, you lieing to support your argument of never requiring a DT/PDT set. Attempting to pound your chest and say how awesome you are because apparently your magical and your very presence ensured that your alliance will never get screwed over on procs.

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No, I'm not lying of what I've said. I never got any Pil fight come into failure because I don't use DT/PDT set. The last alliance I had was a mess, but it still resulted in win. Please stop putting words into my mouth, moreover, by the experience you had imposed as my experience.

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Originally Posted by VZX

That's a lot of assumptions to be put on table, isn't it?

And only the proc'd one is replaced with a new one, not the entire set. And hence,
What about the "Leave 1 easy JA proc when shield is up" rule? That's a good rule to follow, assuming everyone listen/hold their party chat line.

I've gotten a screw up in Pil recently. Not simply because the proc set was bad; It was a Great Sword proc with none other than 2 WARs we had(Bravura & Ukon) were capable proc'ing that. It was well over 30 seconds since the proc called and none of the 2 swaped their Great Axe to Great Sword... until the shield was up and proceed screwing everyone.
But since it was a win. I got nothing to complaint with 5~7 extra minutes of handling the bad situation.

And as for DT set in this Pil case,
Even if you have them, you will still rely on Coercion/Tactician roll to accumulate TP.


No, I'm not lying of what I've said. I never got any Pil fight come into failure because I don't use DT/PDT set. The last alliance I had was a mess, but it still resulted in win. Please stop putting words into my mouth, moreover, by the experience you had imposed as my experience.

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Again your BSing. And now trying to say I don't know how procs cycle, hit an HV and a new HV takes its place, same with V.

Which was my entire point, there can only be 2 HV's at any point in time and 6 V's. Thus if one of your HV's is something stupid / unobtainable then your limited with only 1 HV for the rest of the fight to use for restoring fanatics drink. If you get screwed on both HV's, which happens more often then your willing to admit, then your stuck with using V's to try to restore fanatics. If you fail to restore fanatics, then Flank Opening or ~insert move of death here~ will start one shoting people, this includes the people trying to hit the proc.

So tell me again how your going to handle

HV SCH Abilities
HV BST Rabit Family Special Moves

~assorted V procs~

Or HV Dark Ninja Magic, HV Dark Elemental Magic (Blind / Blind II). Or HV Ice White Magic (Paralyze / Paralyze II) on a NM that's immune to Paralyze. Then all the PUP pet moves, and the Wyvern breath abilities.

I'm only using Pil because it's a perfect example of the situation I'm talking about. If you keep fanatics up then he's ridiculously easy. If you can't keep fanatics up then the fight goes to hell in a hurry. You can eak out a win, but it's going to be messy with lots of death and weakened people. Kaggen just likes to screw you over with aoe slow + amnesia to prevent you from hitting WS procs, otherwise he's pretty easy himself. I've done tons of VWNM's and most of the time their easy now that everyone has a procing method down to keep fanatics up. BUT you will get screwed, its a certainty that it will happen and you'll be forced to rely on DT/PDT sets to try to proc without a fanatics up.

What if the mentioned scenarios comes up? Wipe, redo.
What do you lose other than it takes time to wipe + 5 minutes waiting weakened status removed? In what sense survivability to continue a fight with a such badly aligned proc set should be endorsed? The popper lose the stone? 30k? I'll reimburse it, if it's me who made him to pop or made the alliance setup.

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BUT you will get screwed, its a certainty that it will happen and you'll be forced to rely on DT/PDT sets to try to proc without a fanatics up.

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Well... if you are to assert yourself that much, then I will have nothing to say, sir.

ive only fought pil twice but my LS doesnt have much of a problem killing him. that being said there are ALWAYS times when we dont have procs or one doesnt get hit for minutes at a time. you cant have all 20 jobs in one ally because there's only 18 spaces. (usually 2whm, 2pld, and 3blm varying based on who is in your ally)

i dont often use a pdt/dt/or Mdt set when doing VW but i also die on occasion (sometimes i die a lot, typically have RR up for it so idc). but to be less of a D*** to your whm, you should have these sets. you can very easily proc without your DD sets. sometimes i sit in MDT sets the entire fight (if i dont need to DD or just while im trying to proc).

in w/e case you still WILL have crappy PUG groups. most times i fight Kaggen with a PUG im like the only one trying to proc :P there are still people who havent even done VW once yet. furthermore to post something that is unlikely on a forum for the majority of people who are asking BECAUSE they're unaware, you shouldnt post stuff that isnt likely. even if you have temps 80% of the time there are people without temps and 20% chance to die.

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Originally Posted by VZX

What if the mentioned scenarios comes up? Wipe, redo.
What do you lose other than it takes time to wipe + 5 minutes waiting weakened status removed? In what sense survivability to continue a fight with a such badly aligned proc set should be endorsed? The popper lose the stone? 30k? I'll reimburse it, if it's me who made him to pop or made the alliance setup.


Well... if you are to assert yourself that much, then I will have nothing to say, sir.

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There we have it, you'd rather quit and redo then be bothered to have the proper PDT sets.

It's also more then just losing a stone, you do fights in sets of four for a reason. Losing a stone means only doing three, or at a minimum waiting on someone to run back to town to get another stone. Easy on the Jeuno T3's, not so easy on the Zilart T3's on the ones in the past (Jeuno T5's).

And yes it happens, you'll get proc screwed out of at least one HV every 6~10 fights. If your lucky it'll happen later on in the fight after you've hit EV and your basically just zerging the thing down with fanatics, at that point it doesn't matter and you'll get the win. As I've said, most of my Pil's have been HV -> V -> EV -> HV -> V and it's pretty much terrorized most of the fight, but I've had several that we just got absolutely screwed on HV procs and it went around aoe one shoting everyone. Stil got a win thanks to the MNK and WAR having a PDT set and being able to hold it away from everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Defiledsickness

i dont often use a pdt/dt/or Mdt set when doing VW but i also die on occasion (sometimes i die a lot, typically have RR up for it so idc). but to be less of a D*** to your whm, you should have these sets. you can very easily proc without your DD sets. sometimes i sit in MDT sets the entire fight (if i dont need to DD or just while im trying to proc).

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It would be more helpful if you pop that Lucid Potion II/III instead of waiting cure coming to you.

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in w/e case you still WILL have crappy PUG groups.

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I'm sorry for you still will have crappy PUG.

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most times i fight Kaggen with a PUG im like the only one trying to proc :P there are still people who havent even done VW once yet. furthermore to post something that is unlikely on a forum for the majority of people who are asking BECAUSE they're unaware, you shouldnt post stuff that isnt likely. even if you have temps 80% of the time there are people without temps and 20% chance to die.

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And what is this unlikelihood you speak of ?
As far as I'm concerned, I only care whether I can win, whatever turbulence I will have during fight is less of concern. If you care about how smooth your fight is going to be, then go ahead being picky choosing your member.

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Originally Posted by saevel

There we have it, you'd rather quit and redo then be bothered to have the proper PDT sets.

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Could you possibly be serious about continuing a fight deprived from full temp items restoration? I rather call it redo and have the popper warped/retraced for restone.

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It's also more then just losing a stone, you do fights in sets of four for a reason. Losing a stone means only doing three, or at a minimum waiting on someone to run back to town to get another stone. Easy on the Jeuno T3's, not so easy on the Zilart T3's on the ones in the past (Jeuno T5's).

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Popper must have the Atmacite refiner warp. It shouldn't take that long.
Not having Instant Warp/Retrace/ Sprinter Shoes? I think my requirement is already much more lenient than forcing to have PDT set. 3 Inventory slots. You can put it on sack, and cost like 10CP+10AN+980AN and couple seconds to retrieve them from NPC.

You will get yelled for not having self-sneak/invis in 2004. Do people cut loose these days about this kind of preparation?

Saeval's right.

Quick Question... i would make a new thread but it wont let me so here goes... I see alot of blu's on my server with MAB magian swords, Would that at all affect physcial spells and would a staff be better for those situations?

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Originally Posted by Oricimaru

Quick Question... i would make a new thread but it wont let me so here goes... I see alot of blu's on my server with MAB magian swords, Would that at all affect physcial spells and would a staff be better for those situations?

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Due to being made during ice weather and made out of ice geodes and Slurpees and stuff, the Magic Attack Bonus swords are really cheap and easy to make compared to some options. They still have good base damage and Magic Attack Bonus isn't totally useless, so some folks make them.

Staves are better for magical spells outside of a few specific cases, and the Slurpee Swords do nothing at all for physical spells.

Which specific cases are those if i might ask? i can see something you able to melee, but if you can melee it why not jsut use physical spells and a STR or DEX sword?

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Originally Posted by Oricimaru

Which specific cases are those if i might ask? i can see something you able to melee, but if you can melee it why not jsut use physical spells and a STR or DEX sword?

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Some people have noted better numbers with Burst Affinitified Charged Whisker using two Slurpee Swords than a staff, I assume because the build used for that has little Magic Attack Bonus in it to make room for more DEX.

The same might apply to any spell where a drastically different build is used during Burst Affinity, but I can't think of a another good magic spell like that. It's also possible those people were just using weird equipment they should not have been using, I guess, and the different was small.

And yeah, your thinking on that is correct. If you can stand in melee range, there's no reason not to just use physical spells. If you're using magical spells, there's no reason to stand in melee range and you're giving up the main advantage magical spells provide by doing so.

I see.... Well thank you for your input spank. one last question if you do not mind. Im currently working on a single STR Shikager (at birds) now, im almost done with Almace, would there be a situation where i would have to drop my almace for anouther type of sword? (no dispose just not use Almace for that particular fight).

No, never. I don't personally understand anyone who would drop Almace for another sword; the offhand weapon is malleable, mainhand is not, even with the advent of Requiescat.

As for MAB swords vs. Staves, accounting for changes in gear options since the last time I checked MAB swords and they were coming up close to Staves (85 or so), recent gear improvements and the like put it all in favor of staves. When using swords for magic damage, you lose a decent chunk of accuracy and damage as well as the time spent actually making them, plus two more inventory slots which are pretty precious for this job. I can't really condone those.

Ok, good lol did not wanna do those trials again. I was wondering something, Would Homam boots be able to replace Pink doom boots? seeing as how Lancing is being a stingy little bugger. And is a EVA set still good to make? i was thinking yes but im not sure anymore with the VW mobs being able to hit just about anyone.

Homam are superior, but dusk ledelsends +1 are even better than those.

EVA set should be one of your standard sets. One with full on EVA and one with a mix of evasion and DD stats would be best. It's not so much for Voidwatch as it is for solo and lower level/mid level content; PDT set for Voidwatch is best.

You would not happen to have a sample set i could look at for Full Eva would you.

Hybrid

Full

Thank you Proth, ill start getting what i need for that, and for PDT is the Darksteel +1 still a decent set?

PDT

Thank you again Proth. ill have to start building those sets, i have them both somewhat done just need to refine.