Dragoon Updates!

I have to echo this opinion. YES it's good we're getting Spirit Surge changed to JA haste over magic haste, but why do we need to have the duration shortened? DRK can do a similar move every 5 minutes which lasts for 3 minutes which comes with a comparable second buff to the rest of the boosts we get, but 90 seconds for us is too long and should be shortened? That makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Transmit

I have to echo this opinion. YES it's good we're getting Spirit Surge changed to JA haste over magic haste, but why do we need to have the duration shortened? DRK can do a similar move every 5 minutes which lasts for 3 minutes which comes with a comparable second buff to the rest of the boosts we get, but 90 seconds for us is too long and should be shortened? That makes no sense.

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plus we actually seem to lose DPS during our 2 hour because we have to sacrifice our wyvern to use it, I don't understand why our 2 hour can't just give both us and our Wyverns a stat boost, and while you're at it make Call Wyvern 5 minute recast pls, trying to get Breath staggers in VW is impossible and our Wyverns die in like 15-20 seconds with AoE's anyways.

I basically have to NOT summon my Wyvern until I see a Breath stagger, than 99% of the time it won't use it so we have to lower the mobs resists enough until it decides to use the correct one, I don't understand why just letting us choose which breath it uses with Smiting Breath would break the game >.>.

Oh, well I guess the recast limitation is why double shot shares the same recast as unlimited shot... Seriously, the two JAs have NOTHING in common. I know this is DRG forum but, just wanted to point out how dumb the limitation is. This should have been top priority when these new JAs were introduced... not now.

How about a tiered JT haste? You know, @ lv 30, 50, 70 etc etc, 1% haste each increment for a total of 5% @ 99. Since we can't get a decent attack bonus trait, maybe a trade off for faster attacks. If it falls under equipment haste, then we would only have to gear for 20%(21% for you sticklers) to reach cap and can mix up our current gear selection to improve attack via gear. If it goes another route via magical haste or JA haste, even better i suppose. Or just give us a attack bonus JA/JT that's worthwhile. Surprise us SE, THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX!

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Originally Posted by loldrg

How about a tiered JT haste? You know, @ lv 30, 50, 70 etc etc, 1% haste each increment for a total of 5% @ 99. Since we can't get a decent attack bonus trait, maybe a trade off for faster attacks. If it falls under equipment haste, then we would only have to gear for 20%(21% for you sticklers) to reach cap and can mix up our current gear selection to improve attack via gear. If it goes another route via magical haste or JA haste, even better i suppose. Or just give us a attack bonus JA/JT that's worthwhile. Surprise us SE, THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX!

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JT haste would be AWESOME, sup new x-hit setups and ease of squeezing in more attack/str.

Wonder if the recast limitation means we won't be getting new JAs 96-99 for any job.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Wonder if the recast limitation means we won't be getting new JAs 96-99 for any job.

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That'd be so pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Drai

while you're at it make Call Wyvern 5 minute recast pls, trying to get Breath staggers in VW is impossible and our Wyverns die in like 15-20 seconds with AoE's anyways.

I basically have to NOT summon my Wyvern until I see a Breath stagger, than 99% of the time it won't use it so we have to lower the mobs resists enough until it decides to use the correct one, I don't understand why just letting us choose which breath it uses with Smiting Breath would break the game >.>.

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Slightly off-topic, I've not got to play DRG in VW yet so I have to ask: Does the wyvern vanish when you pop the VWNM, like avatars do?

It doesnt depop like Avatars do, but if the wyvern hangs about for a TP move or two it vanishes quick enough!

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Wonder if the recast limitation means we won't be getting new JAs 96-99 for any job.

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All they would have to do is make all job ability timers over level 50 share recast timers with other job's timers that are also above level 50. Since 2hour timers are already shared and all other timers are 20 minutes or less, this wouldn't lead to too much of a problem when switching between jobs.

Currently the most job abilities a job has above level 50 (or even job specific timers) is roughly six, ignoring shared timers. Add one to this for the two hour timer and you have a current amount of seven timers.

Ignoring job specific job timers like Afflatus Solace or Yonin, we have the following unique job abilities. Considering that I'm more or less just trying to jot this out, there may be errors in what job abilities share timers, so feel free to help correct this list:

1. Pianissimo
2. Fight
3. Charm
4. Gauge
5. Heel/Stay
6. Reward
7. Sic/Ready
8. Call Beast
9. Tame
10. Leave
11. Snarl
12. Elemental Seal
13. Burst Affinity
14. Chain Affinity
15. Phantom Roll
16. Double-Up
17. Quick Draw
18. Sambas
19. Waltzes
20. Steps
21. Flourishes I
22. Jigs
23. Flourishes II
24. Arcane Circle
25. Last Resort
26. Weapon Bash
27. Souleater
28. Ancient Circle
29. Jump
30. Spirit Link
31. High Jump
32. Boost
33. Dodge
34. Focus
35. Chakra
36. Chi Blast
37. Counterstance
38. Holy Circle
39. Shield Bash
40. Sentinel
41. Cover
42. Activate
43. Deploy
44. Deactivate
45. Maneuvers
46. Deus Ex Automata
47. Retrieve
48. Repair
49. Sharpshot
50. Scavenge
51. Camouflage
52. Barrage
53. Shadowbind
54. Velocity Shot
55. Convert
56. Warding Circle
57. Third Eye
58. Hasso
59. Meditate
60. Seigan
61. Sekkanoki
62. Light Arts
63. Dark Arts
64. Sublimation
65. Assault
66. Blood Pact: Rage
67. Blood Pact: Ward
68. Release
69. Retreat
70. Steal
71. Sneak Attack
72. Flee
73. Trick Attack
74. Mug
75. Hide
76. Provoke
77. Berserk
78. Defender
79. Warcry
80. Aggressor
81. Divine Seal

Now some of these share timers with job specific ones that are higher, particularly for Thief and Dragoon.

Certain things could be adjusted, for example Shield/Weapon Bash could share a timer, or stuff like the Arcane/Undead/etc Circles could share a recast timer with each other. Certain pet abilities could be made to share timers since you can only have one pet at a time, if they haven't been made to already.

Assuming SE has a nice even amount of job abilities we can probably assume the limit is something like 128, or perhaps higher if other factors like spells are in, or more if they were inefficient with the timers or some other factor. Still, we can't know for sure and we are unlikely to know for sure.

Basically, if they haven't already, they could have job abilities past 50 share timers as well as any improvement to these 80+ job ability timers to reduce their number. Nobody can use Enlightenment, Sabre Dance, or Devotion at the same time, so it only makes sense to have them share timers as appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Slightly off-topic, I've not got to play DRG in VW yet so I have to ask: Does the wyvern vanish when you pop the VWNM, like avatars do?

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No instead you're just supposed to let it take a hit before using steady wing, then you get amnesia'd and can't save it in time and get irritated and your damage output falls radically.

EVen with temps and food, the higher tier VW NMs have too high def for DRG to do any meaningful kind of damage. Talking like 600-1.2k Stardivers vs almost everything else doing 2k+ just be virtue of the fact that other jobs have attack boosting skills that we don't.

Throughout the history of FFXI DRG has never been a good damage dealer in top tier end game compared to others, it's always been a fantastic DD in small group events like Salvage/Assaults/Dynamis/Limbus but once the super strong HNMs roll around DRG falls heavily behind WAR DRK SAM MNK.

I have to ask, are you got your Stalwarts drink yet? On pretty much all lvl 95 content, short of Uptala who takes lowered piercing damage, my DRG averages 1800~ Stardivers now, with highs of up to 3k+.

The only new lvl 99 NM I've done so far is Ig Alima, where I averaged 1200 Stardivers, though I did have some depressing lows at times. I do however agree we lack behind the other top tier DD's by quite a margin, but we can at least provide consistent damage now.

I do agree though that DRG really lacks attack when compared to the top tier DDs. WAR SAM MNK all have access to berserk, and DRK has last resort + plenty of Attack Bonus traits. I'd love to see DRG get some natural attack buff to bring them in line with the top tiers.

Why... wh.... why did you pick this thread for that outburst?

Edit - Curse people deleting posts!

On Ig Alima my Drakesbanes and Stardivers were so pathetic I wanted to die. I was doing 28-400 damage with all my WS having well over 999 attack and pretty sweet gear and Angon+1. Granted I didn't have a BRD but that shouldn't have made much of a difference. Occasionally I would get 700-1k Stardivers but those were rare on Ig. My numbers are also pretty low on Lancing Lamborak but it could be due to shadows and his high ass evasion cuz I was ranging from 0-1200 on him but mostly averaging around 700-900 meanwhile Blade Hi was doing 800-2k and Shoha/Ukko/VS were doing well above that.

I’m sure you’re all wondering what this whole “recast timer limitations” thing is all about.

For a main job, the current maximum number of abilities with recast timers is 12. (Adding on a support job brings this up to a total of 24.)

Dragoon has pretty much reached the limit of the allocated 12 recast timers set for a main job.

In order to add jumps to dragoon, which already had a large amount of abilities, we based the stats on the fact that the recasts would be shared, since we had no choice but to create shared recast timers. Had we actually eliminated the recast timer limitation problem and created unique recast timers for Spirit Jump and Soul Jump, I believe that their recast timers would be longer.

Next, in regards to priority of status ailment cures from Remove Breath, the below order was suggested:

Paralyze>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Curse/Death > Disease/Plague>Petrify >>> Blind>Poison

If there are no problems with this the development team will be looking into this direction. Let us know if you prefer something different.

The development team is also looking into reducing the recast timer of Spirit Link as well as introducing items that will allow you to cure your Wyvern.

Ahh OK! That makes more sense now. Thanks for the clarification Snurble!

if that is the case lets start sharing timers with the terrible circle and crest JA, those two are so abysmally terrible <for all the jobs> that it seems like a waste of better JA possibilities

No no no! Don't look into lowering the timer of spirit link! Look into lower the time of Call Wyvern! It doesnt matter if we can cure our wyvern when your VW mobs can demolish it before you can get through the menu.

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Originally Posted by Transmit

No no no! Don't look into lowering the timer of spirit link! Look into lower the time of Call Wyvern! It doesnt matter if we can cure our wyvern when your VW mobs can demolish it before you can get through the menu.

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Pretty sure we did this when we reduced it from 2 hours to 20 minutes, no? lol

On a serious note, I will submit the feedback :p

Camate made a funny!

lol

You know that was done because it was a poor poor 2 hour! You can't give us procs for NMs and buffs tied to the wyvern being alive and then leave it on a twenty minute recast, even with the additions to help keep it alive (which I do love, lets not get me wrong) it just isnt enough to keep the wyvern around when it's needed. One AoE from most of the higher tier VWNMs does enough damage to kill the wyvern or leave you terror'd, para'd , amnesia'd to a state where you can't cure it. I'm fine with it dying, but then sitting there for 18 minutes saying you're sorry but no Breath procs is embarrassing.

I like these changes, send my compliments to the devs. Also thanks for the clarification on the shared timers issue, sheds some light on things. And I don't see any problem with the priority of status cures.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Next, in regards to priority of status ailment cures from Remove Breath, the below order was suggested:

Paralyze>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Curse/Death > Disease/Plague>Petrify >>> Blind>Poison

If there are no problems with this the development team will be looking into this direction. Let us know if you prefer something different.

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Surely it should be Death/Curse > Petrify > Paralyze > Disease/Plague > Blind > Poison. Noone is going to care much about being paralysed if they're also Doomed! Then of course petrification is the next worst ailment to be inflicted with. Obviously it can't cure your own, since if you're petrified, you aren't using your weaponskill to trigger the healing breath, but if your tank/healer is petrified and you're the only one who can cure it... noone cares about having paralyse cured. Also, can it not remove silence? Silena should also be a high priority, namely because if you're /whm or /sch you can remove the other ailments yourself! But not if you're silenced. I'd put silena after petrify but before paralyze.

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Originally Posted by Camate

I’m sure you’re all wondering what this whole “recast timer limitations” thing is all about.

For a main job, the current maximum number of abilities with recast timers is 12. (Adding on a support job brings this up to a total of 24.)

Dragoon has pretty much reached the limit of the allocated 12 recast timers set for a main job.

In order to add jumps to dragoon, which already had a large amount of abilities, we based the stats on the fact that the recasts would be shared, since we had no choice but to create shared recast timers. Had we actually eliminated the recast timer limitation problem and created unique recast timers for Spirit Jump and Soul Jump, I believe that their recast timers would be longer.

Next, in regards to priority of status ailment cures from Remove Breath, the below order was suggested:

Paralyze>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Curse/Death > Disease/Plague>Petrify >>> Blind>Poison

If there are no problems with this the development team will be looking into this direction. Let us know if you prefer something different.

The development team is also looking into reducing the recast timer of Spirit Link as well as introducing items that will allow you to cure your Wyvern.

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Does this include pets? because if it does as of right now, Drg would have 14 recast timers. if it doesnt, that would mean it only has 11 recast timers meaning room for 1 more INDEPENDENT job ability!! Make the last ability useful~!

edit: Cant count the new 2hrs coming in march because those are shared timers iirc.

edit2:

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Surely it should be Death/Curse > Petrify > Paralyze > Disease/Plague > Blind > Poison. Noone is going to care much about being paralysed if they're also Doomed! Then of course petrification is the next worst ailment to be inflicted with. Obviously it can't cure your own, since if you're petrified, you aren't using your weaponskill to trigger the healing breath, but if your tank/healer is petrified and you're the only one who can cure it... noone cares about having paralyse cured. Also, can it not remove silence? Silena should also be a high priority, namely because if you're /whm or /sch you can remove the other ailments yourself! But not if you're silenced. I'd put silena after petrify but before paralyze.

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This is why i asked earlier if the wyvern will be getting a new ability like 'Remove' breath or something, because as of right now, you have to use mage(or nin) sub to get all 3 breath types from the wyvern

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Originally Posted by Camate

Pretty sure we did this when we reduced it from 2 hours to 20 minutes, no? lol

On a serious note, I will submit the feedback :p

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Well the thing is, PUP has a way to get its pet back sooner, while DRG doesn't.

PUP can call their automaton every 1 minutes with Deus Ex Automata.
BST can use Call Beast every 5 minutes.
SMN can summon whenever and how often they feel like.

It seems silly for the job which really makes the least use out of the pet, to be stuck on a 20 minute recast. THank you for telling our thoughts to the dev's!

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Originally Posted by Transmit

PUP can call their automaton every 1 minutes with Deus Ex Automata.
BST can use Call Beast every 5 minutes.
SMN can summon whenever and how often they feel like.

It seems silly for the job which really makes the least use out of the pet, to be stuck on a 20 minute recast. THank you for telling our thoughts to the dev's!

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Actually you have it backwards. The jobs most reliant on the pet are the ones who have the shortest recast on the pet. Don't get me wrong i think there are tons of problems with pet availability to all said jobs <they should have at most 5min*liekweakness*> but you are trying to say a job <like smn or pup> who have a 50 to 100% dependency on the pet is the same as drg who has at best 10% dependency?

You're right. I worded that dreadfully, what I mean is that if all the *real* pet jobs can call their pets much quicker, wheres the threat of us being able to call our wyvern quickly? It's not like it changes the outcome of a battle.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Surely it should be Death/Curse > Petrify > Paralyze > Disease/Plague > Blind > Poison. Noone is going to care much about being paralysed if they're also Doomed! Then of course petrification is the next worst ailment to be inflicted with. Obviously it can't cure your own, since if you're petrified, you aren't using your weaponskill to trigger the healing breath, but if your tank/healer is petrified and you're the only one who can cure it... noone cares about having paralyse cured. Also, can it not remove silence? Silena should also be a high priority, namely because if you're /whm or /sch you can remove the other ailments yourself! But not if you're silenced. I'd put silena after petrify but before paralyze.

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I agree totaly with what Babekeke posted.

The status priority listed to be removed is not practical, silence is extremely important to be cured if ur useing magic to trigger healing breath, think it should be

curse/doom>petrify>paralyze>silence>disease/plague>blind>poison

silence after paralyze because we can always use echo drops if we have to, poison after blind cus we can always use antidotes also if its that dire of a situation.

If Dragoon has reached the limit on job abilities I take it Empathy wont ever be its own ability... In that case can you ask the development team to take the "Wyvern: HP+10%" off Wyrm Greaves +2 and put it on Wyrm Mail +2? Having "Enhances "Empathy" effect" on the same piece of gear as added Wyvern HP greatly annoys me. Plus I'm getting sick of Wyvern Mail which looks like bloody Lv.10 Scale Mail...
Could also share the recast on Empathy with Spirit Link I guess.

Thinking about it, couldn't they change Jumps to work exactly like Stratagems? I imagine that would circumvent the whole issue, Scholar has 16 Stratagems so I imagine they avoid the whole issue by counting as only one recast. That would convert three recasts into one, give two to four Jump charges with a recast between Jump and High Jump, I imagine a 3 minute recast at Lv.10 with 1 charge, 1:30 minute recast with 2 charges at Lv.40, 1 minute with 3 charges at Lv.70 and maybe 45 seconds with 4 charges at Lv.99, I'd say leave it at 3 charges though. Could even give them free reign to add plenty of new Jumps, only issue it would bring is having to change the Jump and High Jump merits (recast merits need changing anyway in my opinion) and I guess they may need to rebalance all the Jumps since I doubt anyone would do anything but spam Soul Jump. Would be great for Spirit Surge too I imagine, rather than dropping the recast to zero it does the same as Tabula and gives you unlimited Jumps for the duration, that alone would make it far more useful in my opinion.

Could even split Jumps into 2 categories for separate recasts. "Jumps" and "High Jumps" one for damage/TP the other for hate sheds/ailments.

For remove order, i'd go with curse/doom>paralyze>=petrify>(silence)>poison>plague>blind

Since disease/plague is hardly threatening while poison can be.
paralyze-petrify, not sure wich one shoud proc first.

also not sure if possible, but would be nice if theses
-can be separated between doom/curse and plague/diseases(making doom>paralyze/petri>curse>plague>>>disease)
-can have a different order for dragoon/party member(then party member would have petrify take higher priority)

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Originally Posted by Camate

For a main job, the current maximum number of abilities with recast timers is 12. (Adding on a support job brings this up to a total of 24.)

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Thanks for the clarification. People in this thread made some excellent points regarding this:

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Originally Posted by Sotek

Thinking about it, couldn't they change Jumps to work exactly like Stratagems? I imagine that would circumvent the whole issue, Scholar has 16 Stratagems so I imagine they avoid the whole issue by counting as only one recast. That would convert three recasts into one, give two to four Jump charges with a recast between Jump and High Jump, I imagine a 3 minute recast at Lv.10 with 1 charge, 1:30 minute recast with 2 charges at Lv.40, 1 minute with 3 charges at Lv.70 and maybe 45 seconds with 4 charges at Lv.99, I'd say leave it at 3 charges though. Could even give them free reign to add plenty of new Jumps, only issue it would bring is having to change the Jump and High Jump merits (recast merits need changing anyway in my opinion) and I guess they may need to rebalance all the Jumps since I doubt anyone would do anything but spam Soul Jump. Would be great for Spirit Surge too I imagine, rather than dropping the recast to zero it does the same as Tabula and gives you unlimited Jumps for the duration, that alone would make it far more useful in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Could even split Jumps into 2 categories for separate recasts. "Jumps" and "High Jumps" one for damage/TP the other for hate sheds/ailments.

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Dragoon could have two charge timers set up like Stratagems, one for Jumps and one for High Jumps. Using the two hour ability might even allow for as many of these as one could perform in a given time. This might not be the right answer but please consider it, it sounds interesting.

Again, thanks for the clarification on job ability timers.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Paralyze>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Curse/Death > Disease/Plague>Petrify >>> Blind>Poison

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Personally, I like this order. What people may not realize is that curing Doom won't be 100% but if you are Paralyzed you might get blocked from that one Holy Water that happens to save you. Given that I think this the first two things are done well. I'd probably put Petrify above Disease/Plague though, and Poison above Disease/Plague as well, but even if this order wasn't changed I think we could live with it.

Honestly if I'm fighting anything that doom/curses me, I'd probably be /WHM or /SCH.

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Originally Posted by Camate

I’m sure you’re all wondering what this whole “recast timer limitations” thing is all about.

For a main job, the current maximum number of abilities with recast timers is 12. (Adding on a support job brings this up to a total of 24.)

Dragoon has pretty much reached the limit of the allocated 12 recast timers set for a main job.

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I don't get it.
DRG indeed has 12 JAs, but 2 of them share recast timer. If you consider the number of job abilities with separate timers DRG has it should be 10, not 12, no?
And what about Samurai? (has 13 job abilities)
What about Thief? (has 13 job abilities)

I don't get this.
Unless maybe 2hr abilities are not considered part of the 12 group.

Maybe counts pet commands since those technically have a recast and are job specific.

If it counts pet commands DRG is at 14 I Think, and other jobs are too, so really I can't really manage to understand what Camate meant.

95% of his posts are just translations of things posted on the JP forums so I doubt we'll ever get any clarity on that unless the JP community team responds to the JP forum and Camate translates it for us.

I'm requesting more viable options to get our wyverns to have 1k exp please. I don't want to run around and kill EP mobs (the only ones in the area) for less than 30 exp. Or have it restricted to us by where we go. Preferably around voidwatch area's or other very important event areas..

I don't really have anymore comments on spirit surge since the Dev's seem to understand our disappointing reactions with it at this rate. So hopefully it gets a decent overhaul.

Also I just want to say again how I despise the fact war/sam's get to use stardiver. Just another reminder how I don't have any real uniqueness other than my healing breath(the only reason to keep the wyvern alive other than staggers)+angon+super jump(PS i don't use it for hate reset).

And yeah i'm getting pretty depressing numbers compared to sam's tachi: shoha's(at least a 500-1k damage difference most of the time even with my gungnir..) I don't need to comment on vsmite and ukko fury's since i'm seeing the same thing. I would give numbers from voidwatch events however that event is sort of broken with its temp items anyway. Let's just say I do less than everyone, including the Requiescat PLD's 500-1k damage difference from my stardiver(but i understand it's a sword with low delay so its understandable).