Fed up

Jeuno: 318 pools, 127 plates
Zilart: 204 pools, 2 pouches

Not even close, really.

I'm pretty sure you are either making those numbers up, or have extremely bad luck, lol.

What possible motivation could I have to be making this shit up? >.>

It's the latter, welcome to Voidwatch, etc... and hence why you do Jeuno t3s for Plates. Higher droprate = more consistency over time.

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Originally Posted by Vicious

What possible motivation could I have to be making this shit up? >.>

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It is not uncommon, especially on the internet, for people to exaggerate figures to support an argument/perceived truth. I'm not saying you are making it up at all, but given how miffed you clearly are, you can understand why people might take what you are saying with a pinch of salt.

If I seem short in my comments, it's likely due to my complete lack of patience with obstinate stupid, of which there seems to be an endless supply of around here. Look back on the last page at people failing to use 3rd grade-level English skills (re: context clues) to try and paint me as claiming VWNMs can drop more than one plate per fight if you need sources cited.

People having a different opinion then you = stupid apparently.

It seems you have a hard time reading as well.

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Originally Posted by Vicious

If I seem short in my comments, it's likely due to my complete lack of patience with obstinate stupid, of which there seems to be an endless supply of around here. Look back on the last page at people failing to use 3rd grade-level English skills (re: context clues) to try and paint me as claiming VWNMs can drop more than one plate per fight if you need sources cited.

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Oh excuse me for misunderstanding what you said, guess that can happen sometimes for someone whose first language isn't English.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

Oh excuse me for misunderstanding what you said, guess that can happen sometimes for someone whose first language isn't English.

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Sure, I can excuse that if you had made that clear at the time, however:

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Expressing yourself in a clear, consise way that leaves no room for being misunderstood is kind of fundamental too, I reckon.

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...trying to turn your own (entirely acceptable, given the reason stated above) misunderstanding around to try and make me look like (a dick/I have no idea what I'm talking about) when i was entirely clear and concise in my point is not, therefore my sympathy for you is understandably limited.

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Originally Posted by Vicious

It seems you have a hard time reading as well.

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Read back your previous post for some awkward irony :P

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Originally Posted by Jackstin

Read back your previous post for some awkward irony :P

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That word, meme, etc.

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Originally Posted by Vicious

Sure, I can excuse that if you had made that clear at the time

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It's pretty clear for anyone to see - see below my avatar picture, it says "Location: Norway". Unless of course, you are one of those people who have no idea what or where Norway is.

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Originally Posted by Vicious

...trying to turn your own (entirely acceptable, given the reason stated above) misunderstanding around to try and make me look like a dick when i was entirely clear and concise in my point is not, therefore my sympathy for you is understandably limited.

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I will still maintain that the way you worded yourself, left the statement open to being misunderstood.

But don't mind me, please by all means go ahead and think me stupid for misreading your statement, and for having a different opinion than you regarding voidwatch reward system. Must be awesome being you.

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It's pretty clear for anyone to see - see below my avatar picture, it says "Location: Norway". Unless of course, you are one of those people who have no idea what or where Norway is.

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I simply know better than to assume that one's current geographic location is enough information to make those kind of assumptions about one's education, that's all.

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I will still maintain that the way you worded yourself, left the statement open to being misunderstood.

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Given that you already attributed your misunderstanding of it to your ESL status, the continued attempts to make it somehow my fault are amusing.

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and for having a different opinion than you regarding voidwatch reward system.

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You choose to ignore the 95% of Voidwatch that's nothing but improvements on the past and focus on the 5% that kind of sucks, declaring that you're 'fed up' and that the system is 'shitty and broken.' Getting yourself worked up enough to make a thread on the subject, while basing your opinion on such a narrow, cherry-picked argument is, yes, stupid.

In short, I find your opinion stupid because it barely has a shred of validity to it, not because it differs from mine; I have no problem respecting the opinions of others when they put some thought and reasoning behind it. Yours is sorely lacking in this regard, I'm sorry.

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Originally Posted by Vicious

Let's talk about Voidwatch for a moment.

>Drops the current best equipment in the game.
>Who gets what is taken out of the player's hands; i.e. there's no nepotism, DKP, hoarding, etc.
>Zero competition, zero respawn times.
>Pickup friendly. (Assuming the person in charge is smart and limits melee to those with temps, etc.)
>Rewards for every single fight; guaranteed synthesis materials, a decent chance at a gil drop, and a small chance at the best equipment available.

Now, let's talk about what used to drop the best equipment, HNM.

>Dropped the best gear at the time.
>Items go to loot pool, meaning leaders had to keep detailed spreadsheets of points and deal with all the attendant drama.
>Enormous respawn times; anywhere from 1~3 RL days, HQ kings even longer.
>Batshit insane competition over every single pop, to the point where botting was the only sure way to make any kind of steady progress for your group, which is necessary to keep said group going.
>If you haven't waited in line for months/years, even when what you want drops, it's not going to you; and you get absolutely nothing from every fight until then.

I understand that Voidwatch is a step back towards how FFXI used to be compared to the smash and grab that is Abyssea, but if you think Voidwatch compares anything but favorably to the endgame of old, you're out of your mind.

Case in point; I spent a day off this week doing nothing but Kaggen via /shouts. Out of ~30 Kaggens, I saw 5 bodies and 8 belts drop. That's at least 6 months of old endgame in 1 day, with no LS, no drama, no competition, no standing around for 3 to 6 hours and waiting to maybe get to fight the NM if we manage to claim it this time. Stop your bitching already.

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Normally i would cut out some of the quote but i just agree with every single word about it.

There is nothing wrong with that kind of thinking unless you are too used to your LS holding your hand through your advancement and just pointing at what u need to do all the time to get in the leaders good side and ignore the obvious favoritism that goes on in hopes of getting into the elite circle.

been through it don't care to go through it again.

I did not make this thread or any other thread about voidwatch.

I don't think I have said that I'm "fed up" - I've stated that the reward system sucks, mainly because you can work your butt off week after week after week spamming those voidwatch fights and get nothing but 5 Mantis Eyes, 6 Sceamol Bands and countless of logs and ores to show for all that hard work. Not only that, but you also risk seeing someone get more than one of the same body and it just goes to waste.

Have you seen this thread?: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...n-Fajin-boots!

Judging by the amount of likes the OP's got, I dare say I'm not the only one who's frustrated with voidwatch. But I guess everyone who agreed with the OP of that thread are stupid.

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But I guess everyone who agreed with the OP of that thread are stupid.

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What can I say, there's a lot of stupid people out there~

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Originally Posted by Vicious

What can I say, there's a lot of stupid people out there~

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If I and 50 other people don't like getting smacked in the face with a hammer but 1 or 2 of you do, it doesn't mean that the 50 people and I are the stupid ones.

But basically, you have done what many other people do on here, come in, go against what most of the people are saying, and when people disagree with you, resort to calling everyone else stupid and talking down to them. Usually what people with no substance to their argument tend to do.

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Usually what people with no substance to their argument tend to do.

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Proof positive that you're not reading a thing i post. Go bother someone else.

100% agree with Vicious and Rohelius. Bitching about not getting anything from a certain event week after week? Try year after year, unless your ls blew up from all the bs drama before your turn came. I'd much rather spend an evening with the very real possibility of getting some awesome gear and being disappointed than spend months grinding for someone else with no chance of getting anything.

The thing is everyone's been spoiled by Abyssea. Being able to snag some of the best gear in an evening (or the best weapon in a fortnight) still seems odd to me. I love it mind you, but i'm fully aware that not everything is going to be handed to me on a silver platter right $%%^ing now. Perhaps i'm a bit of a masochist, but it doesn't seem nowhere near as painful as it used to be. Stiff upper lip.....

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Originally Posted by MojoJojo

Perhaps i'm a bit of a masochist, but it doesn't seem nowhere near as painful as it used to be. Stiff upper lip.....

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Just so I'm clear, you're perfectly fine with VW as it is because in your opinion it's better than loot distribution 5 years ago?

That seems to be the biggest gripe people have right? Sure you could walk away without that fancy body piece you wanted, or some other guy in the ls/shout party got it, it's alot better than standing around for 12hours with 10 other ls's just to watch some bot get a claim....or kill the damn thing and get nothing. The whole VW thing sounds like people are pissed you can't blue proc the mob for 100% droprate....

That's a pretty extreme point of view though. I'm pretty sure nobody wants what you suggested, because then it would be unsatisfying. However, VW as it is now is way over at the other extreme where people get discouraged because the drop rate is too low. I know I don't want items to drop like candy. I just want slightly better drop rates. Only slightly!

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Originally Posted by Vicious

If old endgame didn't make you ragequit, I fail to see how Voidwatch, which is better in every conceivable way, could be worse... but you seem to think that old endgame was better designed, so I'm going to go ahead and chalk that up to you putting zero thought into it.

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I FUCKING LOVE GETTING TOCI HARNESS FOR MY WHM MULE!!!
I FUCKING LOVE IT EVEN MORE WHEN MY WHM MULE GETS A SECOND TOCIS HARNESS!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Nala

New WS? yeah they are incredibly incredibly shiny (mostly to distract you from the fact they suck, except sosha)

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wut?

Shijin Spiral: Almost as good s Victory Smite.

Last Stand: Most powerful marksmanship WS outside abyssea. Equal to Wildfire inside it unless you gimp your physical damage with MAB and +fire damage atmas.

Apex Arrow. Same damage as Sidewinder but without the negative accuracy and it ignores defense.

Extenterator: Third best dagger WS (oh you wanted it to be as strong as relic/emp?, that's not happening sorry)

Resolution: Nearly equal to Torcleaver.

Upheaval: Third best Great Axe WS after Ukko's and Metatron. (again, you wanted a free emp class WS? not happening sorry)

Ruinator: Max potential damage lower than Rampage, but damage is consistently much higher.

Some of them suck but a lot of them are very good.

The drop rate is low, but compared to pre-aby, it's alot better. In the grand scheme of things. People can actually participate in fights against these monsters, which i'm sure everyone can be happy about. I'm sure the people making these hate threads wouldn't be moaning if they were the who got the body/boots on their first run.

I wouldn't cry if they upped the drop rate for items, but c'mon, people are throwing venom at the dev's and talking about quitting and boycotting over this shit. It's a joke. When i get annoyed with low drop rates, or competition around Sobek and whatnot, i take a breath and remember what it used to be like, and i thank fuck that's in the past.

In before lock.

I have no problem with working to earn something. Doing VW all the time and hoping the RNG is going to be nice doesn't really feel like you earned it, just feels like you got lucky.

Old end game wasn't perfect, but if you weren't in a crappy linkshell and the leaders didn't take everything for themselves, you can still EARN what you get.

And just to be clear, ive gotten 2 bodies and other items as well so it's not like im just giving a negative point of view because I haven't gotten anything.

Nothing annoys me more about Voidwatch than someone getting a drop you been after for ages, 3 times, yes, 3 fucking times is as many fights. These items are rare/ex, you can't possibly hold more than 1. Heres what SE should have done:

"At least if they could do something like, an item you already have can't be rolled into your box, similar to how it is if you were to fight a mob with a certain item that everyone in your pt had, it just wouldn't drop.

But in this case it would just be re-rolled into someone elses box instead of your's."

If they did something like that, maybe a certain somebody would'nt keep getting the same item that I`ve been waiting for.

You know, I'm wondering about something. Thinking back about the fact that "eighteen people increases the chance for loot to drop," what if the contents of the coffer, all ninety of them or whatever, are determined when the NM is killed and loot is first-come, first-served? I haven't done much Voidwatch and I don't know if anyone has postulated this before, apologies if that's the case. But if it is, maybe try letting people who don't have the most coveted drops examine the chest first? It would be interesting to see if that changes anyone's luck.

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Originally Posted by Gouka

You know, I'm wondering about something. Thinking back about the fact that "eighteen people increases the chance for loot to drop," what if the contents of the coffer, all ninety of them or whatever, are determined when the NM is killed and loot is first-come, first-served? I haven't done much Voidwatch and I don't know if anyone has postulated this before, apologies if that's the case. But if it is, maybe try letting people who don't have the most coveted drops examine the chest first? It would be interesting to see if that changes anyone's luck.

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Nope. The Rare/Ex item that ppl want are all over the place. The only known and generally agreed upon fact is that capping blue light only will give you 2 more logs/ores since the Rare/Ex item never seen to appear after the 3rd item in anyone's loot box.

For those that doesn't seem to understands the single complaint about VW (and WoE is the same way). It isn't because the fight is hard or anything. It isn't that proc'ing full light is hard or anything. It is only the idiotic PURELY RANDOM on which lootbox that Ra/Ex item can and will appear. It's not about walking away with a pounch of heavy plates or all these crap logs/ores that people are tried of getting. When your chance of EVER getting this Ra/Ex item is completely up to a pure RANDOM chance of luck (a very low chance to begin with). It isn't about how good you were or how good your party is. Because none of these NMs are that difficult that a competent group cannot kill with full light on every fight (other than the occasional Kaggen popping and spam Death or Pil lock itself into dmg resistance mode). When your Challenge is whether you can get that LUCKY Roll, you're basically playing a lottery and NOT a game where skills were supposed to be the main thing. In this loot system now, your LUCK is more important than your skill. Which means that some people could possibly get that ra/ex drop on their very 1st try and then you have people who are in their 200+ on the same NM and still have absolutely nothing to show for (personally I'm only in the 150-200 range for Qilin and 50+ on Kaggen). PURE LUCK should not be your only chance of ever getting any item. I wish SE would at least bump your each individual's chance of getting the Ra/Ex item every time they repeat the same VWNM (doesnt' have to be much but no one should have to fight the same NM 200+ with full light and still dont have the item).

Yeah, I get all that and am onboard with the complaints. I didn't mean that the loot is the same every time. Obviously the chest loads a different amount depending on the number of participants, but I'm wondering if it works more like a BCNM chest than your own random treasure pool; difference being that you only get a few things out of it.

For example, the NM dies and the chest spawns, already loaded with three bodies and five pouches and the rest is crafting mats. I guess it's still down to dumb luck what you can see, but this would explain why the devs think more people = more loot. More chances to randomly generate bodies and plates, but still random whether you get to see any.

Again, apologies if this has already been figured out and proven / dis-proven / whatever. Wouldn't be the first time I was fashionably late to the party. :P

I think dev's thinking that more ppl = more loot is that at max blue light, you can get 5-6 items per chest. So from a total battle for 18 ppl, the entire party can get a total of 90-108 items for 1 NM. Whereas, if you only have 10 people, the total number of items the entire party can get would only be 50-60 items for 1 NM. Yeah, the 'total for the entire' party might be more, but each person's number is the same. Now, whether the Ra/Ex has the same drop rate PER NM or not, that's not anything that anyone has found any sort of pattern yet. Again, RANDOM = RANDOM. And PURE RANDOM = Sucks! I have gone 15+ fight of the same NM and not a single person got any ra/ex (we're not talking about the top tier ra/ex item, but rather the 2nd or 3rd tier ra/ex or pounch) - or at least no one said anything to the ally.

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Originally Posted by MojoJojo

The drop rate is low, but compared to pre-aby, it's alot better. In the grand scheme of things. People can actually participate in fights against these monsters, which i'm sure everyone can be happy about. I'm sure the people making these hate threads wouldn't be moaning if they were the who got the body/boots on their first run.

I wouldn't cry if they upped the drop rate for items, but c'mon, people are throwing venom at the dev's and talking about quitting and boycotting over this shit. It's a joke. When i get annoyed with low drop rates, or competition around Sobek and whatnot, i take a breath and remember what it used to be like, and i thank fuck that's in the past.

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Umm no, compared to Pre-abyssea it's absolutely horrible.

HNM didn't actually have bad drop rates per-say, just only one fight per 20~24 hrs or 70hrs+ for some of them. So at a 25% drop rate means one of an item created every few days. Some of the HNM's only had one item worth a damn, but some also dropped several abjurations / items and what have you. What aybssea did was combine drops, one NM would drop several items and with the easy ability to build pop sets you could fight the same NM four or five times within 2hrs, more if you had a super group. This made it appear easy to obtain items as your time vs monster fight ratio was really high and thus your loot vs time investment ratio was similarly high.

What Voidwatch did was keep a high NM fight ratio (can fight many times) but drop the item acquisition rate into less then 1%. People like to spout off about getting bodies on 3/18 fights, but what they don't realize is each of those fights is 18 treasure pools for a total of 324 treasure pools (18 * 18) any only 3 "bodies" for 3/324 = 0.009, or 0.9% drop rate. To make it worse with no way to control exactly ~who~ gets those 3 bodies you would need many more fights then that 1% drop rate indicates. So you have to calculate loot by individual instead of by alliance. At 0.9% drop rate you need 108 fights to get the item on average, some will be earlier, some will be later. How many fights can you successfully do per day? Four, Five? If it's a LS it's not feasible to do the same NM over and over again every day, so how often will you be able to fight your NM for your drop? Assuming a LS does four straight hours of VWNM with absolutely ZERO downtime, you got 8 fights per event day. That's 13.5 days straight of only that one NM with absolutely nothing else being done and assuming no crazy wipes / murphy's law.

And the funny thing about all that math is that the average drop rate is less then the above 0.9%. Something on the order of 0.5% per loot pool. So your looking at a month or two straight of doing absolutely nothing else in order to get your body item.

That is why lots of people can't be bothered to mess with Void watch, entirely too much time sink for not enough goodies.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Umm no, compared to Pre-abyssea it's absolutely horrible.

HNM didn't actually have bad drop rates per-say, just only one fight per 20~24 hrs or 70hrs+ for some of them. So at a 25% drop rate means one of an item created every few days. Some of the HNM's only had one item worth a damn, but some also dropped several abjurations / items and what have you. What aybssea did was combine drops, one NM would drop several items and with the easy ability to build pop sets you could fight the same NM four or five times within 2hrs, more if you had a super group. This made it appear easy to obtain items as your time vs monster fight ratio was really high and thus your loot vs time investment ratio was similarly high.

What Voidwatch did was keep a high NM fight ratio (can fight many times) but drop the item acquisition rate into less then 1%. People like to spout off about getting bodies on 3/18 fights, but what they don't realize is each of those fights is 18 treasure pools for a total of 324 treasure pools (18 * 18) any only 3 "bodies" for 3/324 = 0.009, or 0.9% drop rate. To make it worse with no way to control exactly ~who~ gets those 3 bodies you would need many more fights then that 1% drop rate indicates. So you have to calculate loot by individual instead of by alliance. At 0.9% drop rate you need 108 fights to get the item on average, some will be earlier, some will be later. How many fights can you successfully do per day? Four, Five? If it's a LS it's not feasible to do the same NM over and over again every day, so how often will you be able to fight your NM for your drop? Assuming a LS does four straight hours of VWNM with absolutely ZERO downtime, you got 8 fights per event day. That's 13.5 days straight of only that one NM with absolutely nothing else being done and assuming no crazy wipes / murphy's law.

And the funny thing about all that math is that the average drop rate is less then the above 0.9%. Something on the order of 0.5% per loot pool. So your looking at a month or two straight of doing absolutely nothing else in order to get your body item.

That is why lots of people can't be bothered to mess with Void watch, entirely too much time sink for not enough goodies.

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I disagree here, there's never more than a 5-10 min wait for a voidwatch run on Asura(during prime time), also I've never encountered a pug where everyone doesn't have at least the 1st round of temps.

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Assuming a LS does four straight hours of VWNM with absolutely ZERO downtime, you got 8 fights per event day.

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This hypothetical LS is terrible, FYI.

The only reason i still even play this game is because i have a lot of friends that sill play... I hate what SE has done to this game and what they have done to the RDM job, which is my fav of the entire FF series. They keep saying they are going to something to improve the game, add this and that, and add a direct place for feedback but yet they keep on messing up this game and not following threw with what they say. I recently dropped from 7 characters to just my main and 1 mule and i went from playing 2-3 hours a day to maybe 2 hours a week. I don't wan't to leave just yet, like i said i still have a lot of friends that play but SE is really making this easy for me to stop paying them anything for this BS.

Thank god 11-11-11 came around cause now all i spend time on is Skyrim a much better game and development team... they at least listen and ACT on what their fans want or would like to have in a game. Take some notes SE.... you need to learn something over the last 10 years since your last FF hit game came out and all you have now of this series are failures.

I kept hearing great news about Skyrim - and read many great reviews as well, is it that good? Maybe it's time to jump ship and have peace of mind.

There is two big factors between Skyrim and FFXI, or bethesda and SE for that matter. Bethesda encourages user created content and supplies kits to further develop content which prolongs the life of the game exponentially, but Skyrim is an offline game. SE does not encourage user created content, and even frowns on most of the content while rarely ever considering implementing anything of the imaginative changes dat/motion modders have made over the years.

As for which listens to the customer better? I'm mixed on this to be frank. Some of the key issues people would like to have addressed are either ignored or flat out denied with a lucid reason dictating why when it comes to SE. The worst part being that players have to literally deal with this weather they like it or not because it is an MMO. When it comes to bethesda, I've only ever played their offline games (do they even have an online one?) which is possibly why they are more flexible on what they allow since eventually it isn' in their hands at all due to Creation Kits/Developer Kits they release for their games. These allow players to create weapons/gear all the way up to expansive additions in the form of unique quest lines with the only restriction being the imagination and the inability to take it and use it to develop/market your own game off of it.

Why people want to compare the two or say one is better than the other is based on individual perception. Skyrim is a good game, but until the kit is released it can easily be short lived (and by that I mean you can run out of anything quest related in about 200 hours), but I am avidly looking forward to what user created content will become available once the kit is released. It kept Oblivion alive for years and I can see it easily doing the same for skyrim.

As far as SE goes....I hope they take a better look at some of the issues players have with certain game mechanics and try to "balance" them out a little better. I've enjoyed Squaresoft, Enix, and SE games for many years, but on an old MMO like this sometimes the smallest issues can be a big deciding factor for some if they want to continue paying/playing or not. I enjoy the step backwards in that it forces people to work together.....but the loot system that is only better in theory, and not in practice due to lack or check (IE: Check that player doesn't already have) makes it worse than the theory states it should be.

So basically this whole thread can be translated into this:

"I'm not getting what I want fast enough because I think the Voidwatch / Abyssea / Einherjar drop system sucks! Give me what I want now SE!"

See there in lies the rub. Give you what you want too quickly, then you're bored because there's nothing to do and quit. If you don't get what you want because you think the events too hard or has a crappy drop system? then you rant and eventually /ragequit. Then after you get what you want, you don't do the event anymore and help everyone else get their stuff too. (Which we are all guilty of to some extent or the other). SE is trying to find a balance to keep everyone playing for as long as possible. Trying to find a balance that pleases everyone is nigh impossible.

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

SE is trying to find a balance to keep everyone playing for as long as possible. Trying to find a balance that pleases everyone is nigh impossible.

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Well, wouldn't you say the balance is skewed in VW? Just about everybody who does VW regularly has played this game for years and has been conditioned by SE to expect drops at a certain rate. Nothing significant, just enough to keep oneself motivated to keep going. All that is being said is that many people can't even see the carrot on the stick. We're just told that it's out there, but if we find it, it might be inside another person's box.