Get rid of 8 hour windows for Notorious Monsters

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

yeah right, because not everyone kisses blind the behinds that are shown to him, he should stop playing a game. Yay!

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If the game doesn't appeal to his sensibilities then yet he should stop playing it and find one that does. There are plenty of WoW style casual MMOs out there so it won't be hard.

you dont like it when somebody points out flaws in ffxi right? if someone does this he needs to get easier mmos! gogo away everyone that has ideas to improve the game, go to WoW blizzard listens to their customers, SE doesnt care!

Clearly I'm just not allowed to enjoy the good parts of the game if I dare to break the taboo of criticizing the bad parts.

I have to say, I think that it's really just bad luck on the OP's part. I've done several rounds of weapon trials (I did a Masa back in the day before degearing my SAM at 80 and stopping at the VNM point... I regret tossing my GK now, as well as a Kannagi, an OAT Sword, and am working on an Armageddon), and I've never really had much bad luck on NMs. Masa had some annoyances, I remember the spider was a pain to spawn once. Kannagi? That dang rabbit, Ratatoskr or whatever... that was a pain. The rest weren't a problem, though I might have gotten lucky. Bugbear Strongman spawned from himself on my 3rd and 4th kills, which was nice, and on Hotpot I ended up with five other players to ease the headache, who let me AFK one kill. None of the pops took more than 2 hours or so.

My point here isn't to brag, it's more so to show that it's luck. These are Notorious Monsters, rare creatures who have unique loot. Don't get me wrong, I didn't say relevant loot to here and now, but it's supposed to be unique and something you don't pick up casually. These mobs have spawn conditions you have to meet, and then it's no guarantee. Yeah, it's a bit of a time sink at times, but it could be worse. Honestly I've always been more annoyed at converting a clear abyssite to a colorful after 30+ kills, then having it change to a T3 on the first kill after.

Don't like the respawn time? Spend that hour or so of downtime that most NMs have and either go do something else in the game, or if you're going to toss out the RL card, then go do something else. If you only can kill one NM per day (not one trial, just one NM kill on a particular trial), because you don't have much playtime? Just do that. You don't have the time to blaze through an Empyreal WS in a week, that's understandable. Take your time, and work with what time you have, you'll get there even if it takes you a lot longer. You have more RL commitments (or a shorter attention span, more likely) than people who finish off their trial NMs in a day.

tl;dr: NMs can be fickle but generally aren't too bad, and if you want an Empy in a week, free up some time or shut up and take what time you have with your RL situation. No easy button for an already easy weapon.

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

you dont like it when somebody points out flaws in ffxi right? if someone does this he needs to get easier mmos! gogo away everyone that has ideas to improve the game, go to WoW blizzard listens to their customers, SE doesnt care!

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I don't think you realise that it isn't a flaw in the game, it's been pointed out several times that it is in fact a time sink.

I'd run out of fingers listing all the time sinks in this game (and they'll be in the other games, MMO or not). Be it from NM timers, relic weapons or crafting & fishing - it's what keeps the player base playing, and for longer durations. If things were easier and quicker in these aspects then everyone would have done everything by now and perhaps would have quit. Or alternatively Square-Enix would have had to invest in several more expansions to keep everyone active, which costs them a lot of money to do.

Think about the amount of man hours that have come to the above from everyone that has participated since the creation of FFXI, then consider how much profit that has made Square-Enix.

That reminds me about that time where in 3 days I almost saw more Bloodtear Baldruffs than Lumbering Lamberts >__>
The second time I did it was much smoother.

Friend of mine had to wait 20hrs for a repop. That's a VERY RARE occurrence, but it can happen.
Tbh all these small nms should need is a max window, like there was one for the old HNMs (21-24). You had big opening windows, but also there was a CLOSING ONE.
All these silly NMS should have a max window too. Make it 3 hours, 4, 5... I don't care, but don't leave it potentially infinite as it is now.
It's very annoying indeed.

Now I'd love to add how much most lv95 magian trials sucked and had retarded conditions for retarded upgrades, but I guess I'll leave that for another thread... [/rantoff]

If a person have real life commitments and responsibilities, they clearly need to readjust their priorities as to how much time they allow themselves to play the game and what activities they participate in during their free time. SE has taken great strides over the last year and a half to make the game more open to those who are more time conscious... And that's how we ended up with Abyssea, easy leveling with a trade off of less informed and improperly equipped and/or skilled whiners... I mean players, among other things.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

Caps locks is cruise control for cool.

I agree that the lottery spawn NMs for Magian weapons do indeed suck. I wouldn't mind seeing something altered. That said, there are so many people with empyrean weapons who obviously went through these trials first, that they can't be that difficult.

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Well I was kinda pissed yesterday but I have cooled off now.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

25+ hours of Black Triple Stars of hunting and I still need one more.

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This is the NM I am talking about... I logged off after I missed that opportunity to kill.

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Originally Posted by Soranika

That nm is HORRIBLE if you're doing it alone. It's one that you most definitely want some one with. I lucked out and was able to get two in one night, but I wouldn't have gotten that second one without the other person the far opposite end of the spawn area, other wise it would have taken me three days to take that thing out. Easily the most frustrating NM of the the dagger and staff trials.

I'm not against doing something about the spawn times, but I'm not supporting it either. Some people have the patience and time to sit down and camp lottery spawn NMs consecutively, with or without bad luck on pop after killing the placeholders. These are the ones you already see with more than one full emp weapons or even woe versions. Those that do not have the patience or time either take their time whenever they play to do one weapon or don't do them at all. It's pretty much working as intended as far as SE is looking at it.

Remember, empyrean weapons are on the same pedestal as relic and mythic weapons, yet unlike those two, it's still completely possible to make one in two weeks time of dedication and lots of KI holders for abyssea NMs. Most people settle for level 85 and move on or keep going. Meanwhile relics still take several weeks of both dedicated farming in dynamis and/or gil spent on currency just to make one under the new dynamis adjustments. Mythics still take a forever and a day.

Point is, complaining isn't going to make a change considering how many people have already gotten over these feets. There's people out there working on these trials that are at level 95 and don't even have full +2 Empyrean armor, let alone even full +1 sets.

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Well if that was true it would still take more then a few days to reach level 75.

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Originally Posted by Soranika

This thread has taken the a most hilarious turn. So I'll say this, if you don't want to 'waste' the time camping trial NMs, then don't. No one is forcing you. Trial weapons are not essential to playing the game and having a good time.

With all the empyrean weapon wielders running around, SE has no obligation to change the 10 year old system of lottery spawn NMs. You seem to forget they want you to waste your time so they can still get paid. Still, I want to know if you checked the magian spectacles to see if you got credit instead of complaining about it.

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No I did not get credit.

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Originally Posted by Dirtyfinger

I don't think you realise that it isn't a flaw in the game, it's been pointed out several times that it is in fact a time sink.

I'd run out of fingers listing all the time sinks in this game (and they'll be in the other games, MMO or not). Be it from NM timers, relic weapons or crafting & fishing - it's what keeps the player base playing, and for longer durations. If things were easier and quicker in these aspects then everyone would have done everything by now and perhaps would have quit. Or alternatively Square-Enix would have had to invest in several more expansions to keep everyone active, which costs them a lot of money to do.

Think about the amount of man hours that have come to the above from everyone that has participated since the creation of FFXI, then consider how much profit that has made Square-Enix.

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Now think about all the people who have quit because of those time sinks and think about all the profit they could have had. I'm pretty confident most of the player base that plays now did not play 8 years ago. Casual gamers rule the industry whether you guys like to admit that or not.

While true and we can only speculate this - How many people would have quit due to a lack of content if the time sinks weren't there? Square-Enix would have been forced to expand the game or face a completely dead game. People quit now because of the lack of content, and above all Square-Enix hasn't spent much on expanding.

The reason I didn't specify which NM it was was because I ran into the same problem sort of while camping Namtar for GA. The random windows is annoying but Black Triple Stars adds to the mix by only spawning at night. There's a 24 min window for his spawn which gives you 4 chances to kill PH in hopes that it will spawn. If it doesn't you have to wait 36 mins til next window. Little bit ridiculous I think.

This long spawn time is a big BS... it should be 30-60 mnts respawn time. At most 90 mnts.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Now think about all the people who have quit because of those time sinks and think about all the profit they could have had. I'm pretty confident most of the player base that plays now did not play 8 years ago. Casual gamers rule the industry whether you guys like to admit that or not.

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That's a rather hard, yet inaccurate fact to swallow.

I joined FFXI fully knowing what kind of MMO it was and it's a disturbing to sit here and play the game for what it is and enjoy it but to have a new wave of people rush in and like "NO NO NO! That's wrong, change it!" doesn't settle well. In that case, I tell casual gamers to go find another game to play that will cater to them if they want to do everything and own everything the game with minimum to little effort or time spent.

I don't mind a challenge. It's just that with these NMs, there is no challenge except the waiting and the randomness. You wait for hours one-shotting too weak place holders and spend a few seconds at most killing your not so notorious monster. I'd rather they give me something harder to kill and let me do it in my own time. Maybe give people an option! Trial of Patience or Trial of Skill. Eh, what am I thinking? Options are for other games! This is FFXI! It's the Moogle's way or the highway!

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Originally Posted by Camiie

I don't mind a challenge. It's just that with these NMs, there is no challenge except the waiting and the randomness. You wait for hours one-shotting too weak place holders and spend a few seconds at most killing your not so notorious monster. I'd rather they give me something harder to kill and let me do it in my own time. Maybe give people an option! Trial of Patience or Trial of Skill. Eh, what am I thinking? Options are for other games! This is FFXI! It's the Moogle's way or the highway!

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Quoted for hardcore truth.

Nothing in this game truly takes skill anymore, hasn't really since ToAU. Maybe getting 40k/hour meripos took a bit of skill, but it really boiled down to whether you're an idiot or not, or simply if you have the gear for it.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

I don't mind a challenge. It's just that with these NMs, there is no challenge except the waiting and the randomness. You wait for hours one-shotting too weak place holders and spend a few seconds at most killing your not so notorious monster. I'd rather they give me something harder to kill and let me do it in my own time. Maybe give people an option! Trial of Patience or Trial of Skill. Eh, what am I thinking? Options are for other games! This is FFXI! It's the Moogle's way or the highway!

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Pfft... you think I touched a the cure potency staff trial? No bueno.

They should make Argus a Trial NM.

Honestly there were so many terrible decisions that went into the design of this game that I can't bring myself to be upset about them anymore.

I think this is called "Going Vonnegut".

EDIT: I think it's actually pretty safe to say casual gamers don't play this game, if only because 95% of the industry is better suited to them so why bother?

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Originally Posted by scaevola

I think it's actually pretty safe to say casual gamers don't play this game, if only because 95% of the industry is better suited to them so why bother?

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A very large portion of the populous is made up of the casual market. The current endgame isn't even "hardcore," it's just more "wait to get in" bull.

I guess this has had ample discussion, so now what?

There are about 400 NM in the game below level 85. Let's be sure, just because this thread is about magian weapons, it does not mean that the multitudes of casual games are happy with all the other pop conditions. This thread simply happens to be reflective of less than 10% of the NM. People who do other quests for timed spawned, forced spawned or lottery spawned mobs are equally interested in fixes. (Yup people even complain about waiting 15 minutes for repops!)

So let's start: SE does not have unlimited resources. Oh oh... so the snapping fingers or nose twitching tricks won't work.

What are people going to ask SE to stop working on so THIS can get done?

Job abilities?
Spells?
Relics?
Mythics?
Warps?
Graphic displays?
Drop rates?
Weapon Skills?
Avatars? Beasts? Puppets? Wyverns?
AF+3?
AF+2?
AF+1?
Salvage?
Dynamis?
Limbus?
Food?
Abyssea?
Fishing?
Synthesis?
Synergy?
Inventory space?
Auction House?
XP?
WOE?
Voidwatch?
Monthly payments?
Level 99?
Merits?
Job balance?

This is just 29 of maybe 100 we could easily list.

Please can you just list 20 out of these 29 so SE can see how serious you are about fixing NM spawns times so they will stop and work on these 400 NM?

If you can't list 20 then, I think it shows that SE has the priorities just right. This is NOT a big deal. If you can, then we have a chance at giving SE a productive insight to the causal player base.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

So let's start: SE does not have unlimited resources. Oh oh... so the snapping fingers or nose twitching tricks won't work.

What are people going to ask SE to stop working on so THIS can get done?

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A better question would be "why don't they have enough staff to add this to the list already?"

I think this thread begs the question,

What is Hardcore?

Is it just patience and waiting a long time?

Or is it playing a long time enough to become a skilled player, and therefore able to partake in harder content?

(if you pick the former, you've played too much FFXI)

Hardcore is playing WAR or MNK or whatever bandwagon job the elitists are playing at ay given time, getting an empyrean/relic/mythic, and killing everything in sight

Disclaimer: Not serious, only taking a stab.

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Originally Posted by Eric

They should make Argus a Trial NM.

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And Noble Mold and Almighty Apkallu.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

A better question would be "why don't they have enough staff to add this to the list already?"

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I don't work at SE or a software development company, but I do have lots of experience working at companies. This is what the issue is imo:

Let's say for argument that a company has 156 weeks of work. How does it get it done?

1) 3 people for 1 year and expect more work will come along afterwards
2) 6 people for 26 weeks and really hope and try to get more work but expect to terminate some or have them getting paid while doing nothing
3) 12 people for 13 weeks and have no real hope of keeping them, so expect to fire a lot or pay people to sit around and even have some quit unexpectedly

Now these choices are all different in different industries. Programmers and developers who have worked at the company longer likely understand the product and goals better, while new ones are likely not to. Keeping people enhances continuity but if there are too many it's gonna cost money to keep them if there is no work. But if you lay them off, a lot of people may choose to not work with you. If people see no work on the horizon they just may leave on their own.

So, while it's swell to say why don't they have enough staff to add this request to an endless every growing, swelling to-do list, the answer is simple. No company really works that way. No one has enough staff to do everything possible right away all at the same time. Microsoft doesn't. Intel, AMD and HP don't. The Pentagon doesn't. The Yankees don't. NBC and Verizon don't. Walmart doesn't.

So, the question (only IMO) stands: What as the player base are we willing to say to SE "Don't do these 20 things yet! We want all NM with a lottery spawn time to be fixed?" If we can't find a bunch of things then, this thread is a 'nice to have' item, and the fact is that SE mostly (not always) seems focused on what the player base says they 'need to have.'

In this forum, there are many topics that this is more important than? Just asking...

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Hardcore is playing WAR or MNK or whatever bandwagon job the elitists are playing at ay given time, getting an empyrean/relic/mythic, and killing everything in sight

Disclaimer: Not serious, only taking a stab.

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the real elitists play PUP because they think they are so good they can even make the bad jobs good

Disclaimer: Not serious, only taking a stab.

zinnnnngggg

to the OP.

TO be able to have a powerful weapon, you must work for it, the NM's are all relatively easy. Time is a good healer, time is power, time is everything. Without time, you cannot focus your energy.

To be able to say YES! i completed this weapon over a long time, working hard, it feels great to have it now!

This is what achievements are, this is how people become proud of possessions. If everything was a 5min re-pop, where is the challenge? Where is the pride and honor?

Welcome to Final Fantasy 11, work hard, or die trying.

and 8hours... it used to be a lot worse, try 21-24 hours for a NM or even up to 72 hours for a CHANCE pop...

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Originally Posted by Yokoh

to the OP.

TO be able to have a powerful weapon, you must work for it, the NM's are all relatively easy. Time is a good healer, time is power, time is everything. Without time, you cannot focus your energy.

To be able to say YES! i completed this weapon over a long time, working hard, it feels great to have it now!

This is what achievements are, this is how people become proud of possessions. If everything was a 5min re-pop, where is the challenge? Where is the pride and honor?

Welcome to Final Fantasy 11, work hard, or die trying.

and 8hours... it used to be a lot worse, try 21-24 hours for a NM or even up to 72 hours for a CHANCE pop...

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In my opinion, this is crazy talk. Just because it's better than it was, doesn't make it better. The whole system is against the players and drags things out longer than it has to. This whole business about sitting around in the game in one spot for hours just isn't cool. Again, that's my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Yokoh

to the OP.

TO be able to have a powerful weapon, you must work for it, the NM's are all relatively easy. Time is a good healer, time is power, time is everything. Without time, you cannot focus your energy.

To be able to say YES! i completed this weapon over a long time, working hard, it feels great to have it now!

This is what achievements are, this is how people become proud of possessions. If everything was a 5min re-pop, where is the challenge? Where is the pride and honor?

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Where is the challenge? Good question. There is none in this part of the magian process. It doesn't start to become even remotely challenging until you reach the VNM stage. At least some of those have a chance to kill us. No, the NM camping stage is pure tedium.

Tedium is not challenge. Tedium doesn't test anything except how long you have to play or how long your connection can keep you online while you afk and leech the NM kill.

Where is the pride and honor you ask? I'm proud of my WS based and elemental magian weapons. I'm proud of my +1 and +2 AF3. I'm honored that people have helped me with much of this. I'm proud I was able to solo some of them. None of these were all that hard, but pride and honor? Yep, they're still there.

Now I'll ask you the most important question of all when it comes to gaming. Where is the fun? To me, there's no fun in camping these otherwise worthless NMs. That's the problem. I'm playing a game, but this part isn't fun. It also isn't challenging. Not fun.. not challenging...just tedious... What is a game supposed to be again?

I really don't get why people defend these types of systems within FFXI. To each their own, I suppose, but I surely don't understand it. I've seen people defend the old style 21-24 hour HNM systems by saying that they can go watch TV, play other games, or do web chat between windows. Am I the only one who sees something inherently wrong with that? Why are you paying SE $12.95 a month to watch TV and play other games? I don't want to stand around and wait. I want to play the game. If I wanted to do those things I'd log off and do them. Luckily they changed the HNM system even if it was after it was already obsolete. It's time to look at these NMs as well. They more than likely won't of course, but they need to.


SE, in the future, when you design content your first priority should be FUN. Right now your focus is solely delaying people's progress to keep them playing longer. I realize that's important to your business, and I do understand that. Making things fun, where people want to do them whether there's something to be gained or not, is an excellent way to keep people playing. I'm not saying there's no fun in FFXI, but it certainly seems to be an afterthought especially where high-end or endgame content is concerned.

If it's not fun, and this is a game (as opposed to your job or other responsibility) why are you doing it?

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

If it's not fun, and this is a game (as opposed to your job or other responsibility) why are you doing it?

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You should read to the end of a post:

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Originally Posted by Camiie

I'm not saying there's no fun in FFXI, but it certainly seems to be an afterthought especially where high-end or endgame content is concerned.

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There are aspects of the game I enjoy. This is not one of them. Now, I know what you'll say, "If you don't want to do it then don't!" Ah, but at some point if you want to improve your character, you have little choice. And to me that's what the RPG in MMORPG is all about; improving your character. My point is, why can't we improve our characters, even to the highest of the high end AND have fun doing it? Why can't it be both? In fact it SHOULD be both. If it's not, it's missing the point entirely.

Should it be a progressively challenging process? Sure! Should it be tedious? Only if you're really bad at it.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

And Noble Mold and Almighty Apkallu.

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I thought Mighty Apkallu IS included in a trial?

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

I thought Mighty Apkallu IS included in a trial?

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If you mean Almighty Apkallu, that would surprise me. Which one?

I'm all for a challenge, I don't even mind the time. It's not playing though. If there was something I could do in game during the 8 hours, that would be different, but since I'm sitting in a level 20 zone, and i'm on a level 95 job, and the spawn window is like 5 minutes, I literally have to just sit there doing nothing.

I mean, I would craft or something, But I have no room for items. >.<

No challenge. Nothing to take pride in. Just boring. They should have just made this part like : Kill 100 of these stupid low level normal mobs instead. That way you could at least stomp something weak instead of just waiting around.

Waiting hours on end for a NM to pop isn't a challenge, it's just comes down to luck of the draw... spawn... whatever.

It's not fun, but it doesn't make anything any particularly harder. But you say nothing to take pride in, I giggle because it's post like these that make me feel good about sticking it through instead of going in a raging fit because an MMO, a game, tested my patience. You know, back when I was younger, games did that, so I'm cool with it.

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Originally Posted by Soranika

Waiting hours on end for a NM to pop isn't a challenge, it's just comes down to luck of the draw... spawn... whatever.

It's not fun, but it doesn't make anything any particularly harder. But you say nothing to take pride in, I giggle because it's post like these that make me feel good about sticking it through instead of going in a raging fit because an MMO, a game, tested my patience. You know, back when I was younger, games did that, so I'm cool with it.

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Which games back when you were younger tested your patience by having your character stand around for hours on end waiting? I've been around gaming since the Atari 2600 and while I admit there are many games I never played, I don't recall games like this. Are you talking about Everquest? I'd love to know what games these were so I can avoid them if I ever get in the mood to play old games I never tried.

See the problem isn't that our patience is being tested... it's HOW. Test my patience with a lengthy dungeon full of interesting things to fight. Test my patience by having me kill level relevant things and earn points toward a goal. Test my patience with interesting quest and mission lines where I travel the world.

Don't test my patience by having me wait around for 2 hours for an NM that takes 2 seconds to kill.