What new Rolls would you like to see 91-99? + Other JA's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zagen

I'd go NIN/WAR/WHM to that situation cover all Red Procs, kill the NM faster, and Keep everyone alive even while in AoE Range. Lets say my friend who has COR wants to join, he rolls Tactician's on us so we can go through the WSs faster. The COR stays out of AoE range and can go crazy with the damage with almost no fear (doesn't have Wildfire yet) that he'll take hate from the NIN or WAR. In my situation just like yours the COR isn't needed but it is helpful the difference is in my situation they don't have to be "careful" while helping.

As to the "right jobs or you fail" comment on a personal level that is false (this is where your own fun matters), then again that has always been the case. However on a community level that is accurate, but then again the community has always been about efficiency.

My favorite jobs in the game are COR, PLD, and BLU. 2 of the 3 (3 if you discount procs, AoE farming, or T4 Voidwatch) are not efficient if the core jobs haven't been covered. Once the core jobs have been covered they still aren't efficient in most situations but they are helpful. I'd be ignorant to not acknowledge this fact of the current game. Heck once upon a time a party that didn't have a COR or BRD in it was fail...

If you truly enjoy doing things a lot slower and less efficient then that's cool, but don't expect the rest of the community to think pet regen/regain is useful because that's how you roll.

---

Yes, I know NIN WAR WHM is more efficent, and I also knew that I couldn't get a NIN and WAR friend on that time. I logged on, asked if anyone can help me with KI farm, and I got a DRK and BST friend willing to help. So instead of sitting in Jeuno and do nothing and waste my time to wait for a NIN and WAR friend with nothing to do pop out of nowhere, I may as well just grab the DRK and BST and get the things done. I never said I "enjoy" it, but it's certainly better than not getting it done because no NIN and WAR was on.

Spending 10~15 min to kill the NM with wrong setup and 50% of rec proc chance is more efficent than spending 5hr waiting for ppl with right job to come just for 100% red proc chance and 5 min killing time. I don't have all day to wait for a NIN and WAR that's not doing anything to pop for my KI farm really.

It's fine if you never duo with a pet job, and always have a NIN WAR available 24/7 whenever you need it. Just save yourself 100~200k on that roll. But inefficent or not, I'm not going to spend hours to wait for a perfect setup if I can get things done right away with setups at hand.

Yes it's useless if you always do things in MOST efficent way, but if situations won't allow you to do things in most efficent way, it's always nice to have a back up plan to get it done, better than not getting it done at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Afania

It's fine if you never duo with a pet job, and always have a NIN WAR available 24/7 whenever you need it. Just save yourself 100~200k on that roll. But inefficent or not, I'm not going to spend hours to wait for a perfect setup if I can get things done right away with setups at hand.

---

Actually I used to duo BST x2 for seal farming because my friend and I didn't want to have to be bothered with the right jobs or sharing the spoils since at the time we wanted multiple seals. We learned a few things, 1) its slow as hell, 2) Yuly's TH is crap at best (assuming it actually has TH), and 3) we fall asleep from boredom leading to our deaths.

We both went on to lvl NIN, BRD, BLM, and MNK so we'd have jobs we didn't have for seal farming and my friend got his g/f to play WHM as we needed. We've gotten I'd say well over 60 +1/2s now since doing that and much much faster than we would have as BST Duo even when accounting for the time spent leveling those jobs.

In the end to each their own I guess, you're happy making due with the jobs available and my friend an I are happy leveling a job and gearing it decent enough to make sure we don't have to make due with the jobs available. As to our WHM well that's the only job she cares for so win win, though a DB account wouldn't take more than a month or 2 to get caught up decently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zagen

Actually I used to duo BST x2 for seal farming because my friend and I didn't want to have to be bothered with the right jobs or sharing the spoils since at the time we wanted multiple seals. We learned a few things, 1) its slow as hell, 2) Yuly's TH is crap at best (assuming it actually has TH), and 3) we fall asleep from boredom leading to our deaths.

We both went on to lvl NIN, BRD, BLM, and MNK so we'd have jobs we didn't have for seal farming and my friend got his g/f to play WHM as we needed. We've gotten I'd say well over 60 +1/2s now since doing that and much much faster than we would have as BST Duo even when accounting for the time spent leveling those jobs.

In the end to each their own I guess, you're happy making due with the jobs available and my friend an I are happy leveling a job and gearing it decent enough to make sure we don't have to make due with the jobs available. As to our WHM well that's the only job she cares for so win win, though a DB account wouldn't take more than a month or 2 to get caught up decently.

---

If you want to use BST duo as an example, actually I think there are situations where BST is useful for solo. From what I've heard(just heard from other ppl, haven't try myself), BST/DNC is very decent solo job in dyna to farm currency(some ppl claim to farm 800k~1M a run solo), you get TH from pets, you get step proc from /DNC, you get high solo ability and survive-ability to kill TE NMs. Now you add a COR, you will kill a lot faster, get extra JA proc(QD can proc as JA proc I think), get movement speed+ to run around. Although you will need to split the profit, but you may also ended up farming a lot more.

Not that I've tried myself, so I'm not 100% sure if it's more efficent than other THF+WHM or NIN+WHM setup for currency farm, but it's still worth a try IMO.

I do Dynamis a lot myself and can safely say I see plenty of bst/dncs soloing stuff in there, so I would imagine there's something to those claims. I usually see them with the sheep instead of the ladybug though.

That being said, even if it's bst+cor duo, I doubt the cor would be giving bst, pup or drg roll. Those rolls are useless even in that sort of circumstance seeing as how SE always makes the pet job stronger than the pet itself.

I'd say it's still too early to say BST+COR duo won't work well until next update arrives. I remember when SE just made regain roll, the entire FFXI community was like "wtf, more shit rolls!","it can't beat chaos+fighters!""useful during down time only!", then regain roll ended up being one of more the more potent and game changing roll COR can use(besides chaos), it even changed how entire job is played since last No.11 update(able to gain TP and deal dmg while rolling none-stop and focus on buffs with a No.11 on COR full time, or using support spells from /WHM, able to gain TP when fighting mobs you can't physically touch it etc)

Remember by next update SE gonna add more zones, and new neo-dyna, and there are chances that some newer NM may work well with BST solo/duo and not so well with NIN+WHM. BST solo is inefficient in Abyssea due to proc, doesn't mean it's inefficient forever. Before I give verdict to whether this roll is useless or not, I'll just wait and see. I won't just say this roll is useless just yet.

Unless they significantly improve the power of the pets, I still think cor+bst duo would be better off with regain on themselves than regain on the pet. That's the fundamental flaw of the pet rolls. Situations in which the pet is more active than the master are so rare that the pet rolls are a poor choice 99.99% of the time. I suppose if the upcoming roll is strong enough, it could find a use in duo situations where a pup is using sharpshot frame since the regen gets its HP back up after deus ex automata, and regain lets it spam WSs, but I'm thinking like 20/tick regen and 5/tick regain on jackpot to count.

There is an upside to Regain for pets, if it can be viewed as such. Pets generally gain TP much slower than players making regain relatively better for them.

...and behind every silver lining, there's a bolt of lightning waiting to kill you and everyone who love!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

There is an upside to Regain for pets, if it can be viewed as such. Pets generally gain TP much slower than players making regain relatively better for them.

...and behind every silver lining, there's a bolt of lightning waiting to kill you and everyone who love!

---

On BST my pet would always be over 100% TP by the time my Ready timer was up, pet TP gain might be slower but being restricted by Ready timer and charges makes Regain on the Pet over the master far less useful. Not to mention none of the TP moves from the pet are as powerful as a well geared Rampage. Some of the debuffs are nice though.

On SMN only Magical spells use TP and the best magical moves are merited pacts which should be fully merited for 160% base TP not counting what the pet can do while meleeing in the 45-60 seconds the timer is ticking. Also whenever Mana Cede is used it essentially makes the extra TP useless.

That's basically what I was getting at with the second sentence. Even considering how slowly pets gain TP compared to players, the roll is still more situational than sticking a needle in one's own eye.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

That's basically what I was getting at with the second sentence. Even considering how slowly pets gain TP compared to players, the roll is still more situational than sticking a needle in one's own eye.

---

Oh I see my confusion in the way you wrote it and what you meant... The last "them" is meant to be for the players... I read it as it was meant for pets.

No, I did mean it was a relatively larger increase in TP gain for pets because they gain TP slowly compared to a competent player. That increase is often irrelevant because timers limit all pet's TP usage except for Puppets, so I was basically trying to make a joke.

Well, It could actually be nicer for Avatars, As the benefits they gain from TP on magical BP's is pretty lovely. Though It wouldn't much matter if you had 5/5 merits and the TP bonus Callers piece, which essentially gives your pet ~240%TP at 0%(ir i remember right)... But it could still have some potential uses in Avatars.

While I admit that Companion's roll has situational uses, I can't recall the last time I saw a BST running around with a COR at his side. If he has a Duo partner, its always another BST.
Personally I've never been approached by a BST to come give them Pet rolls. The only time I've ever been in a Pet party at all was a SMN burn of Fenrir back in the day to get my Fenrir's earring. So unless I'm not seeing what's going on in the BST, SMN, PUP, DRG world these days, I can't see Companion's roll getting a ton of use except for a tiny minute fraction of players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Unless they significantly improve the power of the pets, I still think cor+bst duo would be better off with regain on themselves than regain on the pet. That's the fundamental flaw of the pet rolls. Situations in which the pet is more active than the master are so rare that the pet rolls are a poor choice 99.99% of the time. I suppose if the upcoming roll is strong enough, it could find a use in duo situations where a pup is using sharpshot frame since the regen gets its HP back up after deus ex automata, and regain lets it spam WSs, but I'm thinking like 20/tick regen and 5/tick regain on jackpot to count.

---

I agree that in many cases it's better to simply buff the master than the pet. In fact, as a longtime PUP main I wouldn't want regain on my automaton (over a buff on myself) even though Sharpshot does focus heavily on WS. I'd much rather get buffs to myself in any situation where I was hitting the mob, and if I'm using Sharpshot I'm going to be hitting the mob. MAYBE I'd have to think about it harder if the pet Regain was significantly MORE than the regain players get from Tactician's (I'm talking like twice as much pet regain as Tactician's gives players). Otherwise, as a PUP it would be a no-brainer - I'd rather have Tactician's, Chaos, Blitzer's, Fighter's, Rogue's over any pet rolls.

I would expect a BST would have similar feelings in situations where they can get in and melee without fear.

BST pet tanking is the one case where I would be cautious of that - on harder targets you might want to take care to not pull hate off a tanking pet, so putting regain on the players for more WS isn't necessarily going to help and can actually mess up a strategy if hate starts bouncing around. I'd rather help the pet tank better with regen/regain, and pair with Beast Roll to do more pet damage. I speak from experience, as I actually have BST friends who I've sometimes come out to help as they solo or BST duo. I realize this isn't a frequent situation for most CORs, but these pet rolls do have their place occasionally for some CORs.

And one other caveat, S-E seems intent on improving PUP's ability to use their pet (Valoredge frame in particular) to tank. It's not there yet, but we may see Valoredge tanking in the near future much like a typical BST pet-tank strategy. In that case, as a PUP I might indeed be more interested in having Companion's roll on me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Well, It could actually be nicer for Avatars, As the benefits they gain from TP on magical BP's is pretty lovely. Though It wouldn't much matter if you had 5/5 merits and the TP bonus Callers piece, which essentially gives your pet ~240%TP at 0%(ir i remember right)... But it could still have some potential uses in Avatars.

---

Even if you were doing a totally avatar-focused strategy, I'd generally rather use Drachen if the SMN is using any magical BPs at all, Beast Roll for straight up pet attack, and Evoker's with 100% job bonus if outside Abyssea. So it would be REALLY situational on SMNs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirabelle

While I admit that Companion's roll has situational uses, I can't recall the last time I saw a BST running around with a COR at his side. If he has a Duo partner, its always another BST.
Personally I've never been approached by a BST to come give them Pet rolls.

---

Depends on the player and the jobs your friends have. I have some friends who like to solo/duo stuff on BST, and occasionally I'll hang out with them on COR. Nice to give them something that helps their strategy, even if it's not a frequent situation I find myself in on COR. I completely get that some CORs don't know any BSTs and will NEVER run into this - in that case, you don't have to buy the die.

And I agree that if you were dead set on a frequent duo/trio partner for a BST, a COR probably isn't the first job you'd pick. More BSTs usually pair well together. But if you just occasionally go out with a BST friend or two, nice to have a couple buffs for their pets.

Quote:

---

Even if you were doing a totally avatar-focused strategy, I'd generally rather use Drachen if the SMN is using any magical BPs at all, Beast Roll for straight up pet attack, and Evoker's with 100% job bonus if outside Abyssea. So it would be REALLY situational on SMNs.

---

Well, If we wanna talk ideal situations, no good SMN Should need Evoker's at this point, in or out of Abyssea, Avatars can be free with refresh back realistically. So MP Should not be an issue. Would it help? yah, But its not needed and if your goal is damage, the new roll will win.

MAB roll + the Regain one would be the best combo for over-all magical damage from BPs. But yah, It is rather situational. Like most everything in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trellosaurus

I've been corsair a long time and have always been very jealous of Pianissimo. I had an idea about a COR version of the ability. Maybe a mini-roll that rolls 1-6 like Wild Card but only affects one target and grants a job-specific bonus to the target, so you wouldnt have to get a new roll for each job again just the one roll but it has different effects based on the job of the target. For example... like if you have a PLD mixed into the melee and he isnt benefiting from the DD rolls you have on your knuckleheads with the big swords. You could roll this single target roll on your pld and say for example the effect for PLD is damage mitigation like phalanx and VOILA! your pld now has a relevant roll that hasnt messed up your rotation or created a tide of gripes and complaints from the melee department.

---

I'd rather see a peice of gear like the Luzaf's ring but with the opposite effect. Narrows the range of phantom roll area of effect. Maybe to 2-3 yalms so we can stand right next to the person and give them a roll with limited risk. SE has already said painissimo would be tough to implement with how doubling up works, But if they can program Luzaf's ring they can program an anti-Luzaf's ring.

Quote:

---

Depends on the player and the jobs your friends have. I have some friends who like to solo/duo stuff on BST, and occasionally I'll hang out with them on COR. Nice to give them something that helps their strategy, even if it's not a frequent situation I find myself in on COR. I completely get that some CORs don't know any BSTs and will NEVER run into this - in that case, you don't have to buy the die.

---

I'm not saying I don't have any BST friends. I have plenty of LS mates that play BST (and never ask me to bring out my COR). I've never even see a BST and COR paired together, anywhere, at any time in all of Vanadiel. So its situational use has to be at the extreme low end.