Eleven Fajin boots!

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Originally Posted by Yarly

If you got the fajin boots, would you still be doing voidwatch? no.

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Yes. Toci's Harness says hi.

the fact that the same people get the same items over and over tells me theres something wrong with the random number generator here. something is causing it to show favor where it shouldnt. its my opinion that s-e needs to rework the system for how things drop (that is, what items actually come up in boxes and who for) entirely.

working through the tiers and spamming mobs it always seems to be the same people in my ls getting items over and over, whereas ive gotten two ra/ex items i actually wanted for the first time after several months within the last week.

at this point i mainly did vwnm for the various ports because i enjoy being able to get places quicker.

voidwatch just outright sucks.
out of like 10? wins we gt about 3 pairs...2 to me<i have 0 use fo them> and one to someone else...long story short they all got tossed. This has happened a bunch of times with many items, its just a lame joke.
You spend whole fight staggering a mob to death, only to have the item go to waste. to m ake things even worse...you cant even get something else if you get an item you dont want, its always "unique item/loot" + other junk.
So not only are you blocking ppl who WANT the item from being able to get it but you are also block people who DO NOT want said item form even getting ANYTHING ELSE. christ iv never seen a heavy metal plate and that's all i even want from the kirin VW pop such a terrible waste of time, i REALLY hope they come up with some better event soon, this stuff just blows
/endrant.

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Originally Posted by Phafi

Qilin drops a body?

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No, he doesn't, derp. You might say that neck piece or daggers are equivalents of 'rare' bodies from other NMs. No wonder noone got body... ._.
Point still stands, I got 2 feet in a row, I'd be more than happy to put second pair in alliance's lot pool. Hell, if I wasn't THF main, I'd put both pairs up if some THF/RNG needed them.

I'm actually thinking there might be a pattern and that the drops aren't totally random. Maybe it has something to do with performance, IDK.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'm actually thinking there might be a pattern and that the drops aren't totally random. Maybe it has something to do with performance, IDK.

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I really don't think so - I've seen ra/ex bodies go to secondary characters whose only purpose is to proc a weakness. Other than that they haven't participated in the fight at all. Hell, one of those secondary characters even got the same ra/ex body back to back.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'm actually thinking there might be a pattern and that the drops aren't totally random. Maybe it has something to do with performance, IDK.

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Yeah don't think so. My Mule has Neck/Body off Hahava and was only there for RNG procs.

I suppose not. Still, it seems a little suspicious that you have 18 people and the same "rare" drop drops a whole bunch of times to the same 2 people. Something just seems really odd about that- because really, what are the odds?

The odds are that it is a stupid system and is implemented poorly and should be changed.

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The odds are that it is a stupid system and is implemented poorly and should be changed.

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Largely goes without saying but doesn't address the question.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I suppose not. Still, it seems a little suspicious that you have 18 people and the same "rare" drop drops a whole bunch of times to the same 2 people. Something just seems really odd about that- because really, what are the odds?

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Weird shit just happens sometimes and our brains try to find a pattern where none exists.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Weird shit just happens sometimes and our brains try to find a pattern where none exists.

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im not a fan of the idea of coincidences. especially not when they happen this often. something is causing it and its not coincidence.

Are those proc mules that seem to be getting all the drops getting more procs than others? Could be your individual amount of procs relates to quality of loot.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Are those proc mules that seem to be getting all the drops getting more procs than others? Could be your individual amount of procs relates to quality of loot.

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If that is the case (which I doubt) I'm screwed since I'm always whm.

I honestly haven't paid attention to how many procs the mules have been getting.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

I really don't think so - I've seen ra/ex bodies go to secondary characters whose only purpose is to proc a weakness. Other than that they haven't participated in the fight at all. Hell, one of those secondary characters even got the same ra/ex body back to back.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

Yeah don't think so. My Mule has Neck/Body off Hahava and was only there for RNG procs.

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stupid enough for being how se implement it: item drop in chest of the people who proced

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Are those proc mules that seem to be getting all the drops getting more procs than others? Could be your individual amount of procs relates to quality of loot.

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Definitely not that or BLMs would get all the loot.

I have pretty much given up on VW and never really run it anymore. I normally ran it as smn and I have yet to get anything worthwhile to drop. I have spent hrs and hrs on this and get nothing but crap. Seals for gear I already have +2 or ingots or logs w/e. I havent even gotten a basic ring to drop when other ppl are getting great drops. I still go now and then when I am bored but I never have hope for getting anything. If there is something that increases loot se should at least give us a hint so we could test it better

My ls is doing voidwatch at the moment with the intent of clearing the zones and then when they finally get around to fixing the stupid drop system we will be ready to go spam it with our 200+ stones. This system is so much fail that I'm considering flying to SE HQ and pooping on their doorstep in protest.

In case some people hasn't seen this thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post214681

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Originally Posted by Camate

I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.

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Not quite the feedback I was hoping for, I know that much. :(

Can anyone validate that statement? that the newer ones drop more stuff than the older ones?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Can anyone validate that statement? that the newer ones drop more stuff than the older ones?

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Seems to be the same. Common drop >>> Rare drop >>>>>> super rare drop.

So it's another "Please change how VWNMs work" thread? I didn't bother reading after the first 2 posts.
Question: Are these people who are not getting the drops using cells and the people getting them are always using them? Concideration?

Out of 60 VW runs my most notable item has been Prolix Ring I've traded cobalt/Rubi cells on each pop, and the majority of the NMs I've done have been the last tier. So no I don't think it's connected. When I got my ring I spent more time casting elemental debuffs and stunning than procing.

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Originally Posted by Frost

We did Voidwatch today and [size=5]Eleven Fajin Boots[/size] dropped!!

Yay!

Thank you Square Enix Incorporated!

The [size=5]Three People[/size] that got them today were really happy!

But you know what would have been really cool:

If the [size=5]Eight Wasted[/size] other boots didn't keep going to the same people!

Can you PLEASE, Pretty please, with a Cherry on top, PLEASE do something to make this a tiny bit less ENRAGING???

Anything???
PLEASE???

Please.

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Your post has 55 likes, but let me assure you the problem does not lie within the drop system. A simple decrease of the length of time with these encounters is the clear fix.

Wait, what? A voidwatch fight takes a long time?

He's joking.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore

Topic title makes me think about writing a "Twelve Days of Voidwatch" song.

If anything, I think SE should make it so Rare drops you get in your box that you ALREADY OWN can be bumped into the Treasure Pool.

That coupled with faster fights and higher drop rates would probably come pretty close to fixing the issue entirely, while still maintaining the integrity of the system as intended.

Make it so when you select to obtain the item from the box, the game detects the RARE conflict and automatically resolves the conflict using the treasure pool. Shouldn't be THAT hard to special-case it for Voidwatch boxes.

I bet if someone forced them to watch a video of another MMO giving 100% drops on a HNM kill that they would start melting.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'm actually thinking there might be a pattern and that the drops aren't totally random. Maybe it has something to do with performance, IDK.

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I really hope they're not doing something like this. I'm pretty much relegated to BRD for all of Voidwatch, which means that my damage count is almost always 0. For any given weakness, I've got a maximum of three songs that can trigger it (for most elements, 1), and my one damage song won't land on anything at all in VW (thanks so much, SE--remind me again why we got a seventh tier on that one?). So mostly what I'm doing is desperately trying to buff people who are being tossed hither and yon by AoE knockback while trying not to get killed by the same, and trying to hit weaknesses which are probably not mine because there are 13 billion BLU and BLM triggers. It sucks enough listening to people after the fight gabbling about how much damage they managed to do (the lowly BRD never gets mentioned) without thinking that SE might be punishing me for not "doing enough" to the thing we're fighting--whatever the heck that might mean.

Pseudorandom drops are for all intents and purposes random, I've seen no rhyme or reason to the distribution of the 10 bodies and miscellaneous other drops we've received. To believe otherwise is almost certainly falling prey to the human tendency to seek patterns in randomness.

EDIT: before someone jumps on "10 bodies", we have done a lot of Voidwatch. We haven't even seen every body either, let alone any of the Zilart path HQ weapons.

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To believe otherwise is almost certainly falling prey to the human tendency to seek patterns in randomness.

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We seek patterns in randomness because
1) Not as many things are truly random as we think, and computers are technically incapable of being truly random
2) It is more difficult to prove that something IS random than it is to prove that something isn't.

Of course, a day's worth of voidwatch runs by one group is far, far from an adequate sample from which to derive any kind of reasonable conclusion.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

We seek patterns in randomness because
1) Not as many things are truly random as we think,

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Not going to get into a determinism argument here, though that has nothing to do with why we seek patterns.

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and computers are technically incapable of being truly random

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Originally Posted by Nightfyre

Pseudorandom drops are for all intents and purposes random

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Think I already covered that. "For all intents and purposes" because the difference between the two is trivial unless you're able to manipulate the pseudorandom option, which is probably a no-go in FFXI given that it's handled server-side.

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2) It is more difficult to prove that something IS random than it is to prove that something isn't.

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Again, this has nothing to do with why we seek patterns. We seek patterns as a survival tactic, as do many other animals.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

If you want them to nerf the drop rate into oblivion, sure. Otherwise, it's not going to happen.

Basically, it can be one of two things:

Super-low drop rate and normal treasure pool distribution
relatively high drop rate (by comparison at least) and item goes to random people.

Sorry to be Negative Nancy here. But whatever the solution, they're going to be sure you have to do the fight a similar number of times.

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Umm you do realize that they ALREADY HAVE A NERFED DROP RATE. Nerfed as in less then 1%. When you defeat a NM you get 18 treasure pools generated, meaning if you see an item once per six runs, then your talking 1/108. If you get a rare item once per 9 runs, then your talking 1/162.

What we have now is the absolute worst of both worlds, random loot distribution combined with ridiculously low drop rate.

SE can't make it worse.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

We seek patterns in randomness because
1) Not as many things are truly random as we think, and computers are technically incapable of being truly random
2) It is more difficult to prove that something IS random than it is to prove that something isn't.

Of course, a day's worth of voidwatch runs by one group is far, far from an adequate sample from which to derive any kind of reasonable conclusion.

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For one this is based on the combined experience of ever poster on BG and Alla and this forum combined. We know their less then 1%, no need to attempt to shove sunshine up our arses.

And RNG's can be made random, measuring the electric potential between two interconnects inside a CPU down to the sixth decimal place is considered random. Typically RNG's have their seeds salted with entropy accumulated inside an entropy buffer, /dev/random on a Unix OS. For all intents and purposes it's considered random as it is fundamentally unpredictable. The act of trying to read the entropy buffer or the quantum charge would result it in changing and thus be useless for deterministic predictions.

67 likes, which is about as much as an update from the devs...

Shouldn't that get some fucking attention?

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SE can't make it worse.

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Just watch them.

Are they going to lower our .3% drop rates to .15%!?!?!? OOOHHHHH NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by saevel

Umm you do realize that they ALREADY HAVE A NERFED DROP RATE. Nerfed as in less then 1%. When you defeat a NM you get 18 treasure pools generated, meaning if you see an item once per six runs, then your talking 1/108. If you get a rare item once per 9 runs, then your talking 1/162.

What we have now is the absolute worst of both worlds, random loot distribution combined with ridiculously low drop rate.

SE can't make it worse.

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They said they plan to boost drop rates.