Level 99 - Trial of the Citadel

I would love 100. Tradition or not there has been previous FFs with a max level of 100 as mentioned by some, that's not a good enough reason to not give us 1 more level. I use NIN/DRK a lot and personally would like to benefit from Atk Bonus 3, or even DRG/SAM or DRK/SAM that would benefit but not overpower from another tier of Store TP. If the devs would allow Composure, I'd personally like to see BLMs not have to worry about reapplying Phalanx every 3 minutes. Even /DRG could be a viable thing for people who don't know how to hold back. It's not like Lv.50 sub would grant the abilities, spells, or traits that would break any job at the moment anyway.

Go for 100. More room to cram spells/JAs in for the "final" push and in the event some day in the future the new cap is 125 or whatever, the subsequent break would involve an uneven climb at some point and would certainly introduce one at 99 itself.

255 or bust!

Just going along with what everyone else is saying:

-FFXI has been doing level increases of 5. No reason to stop now.
-There is no reason to keep us at 99 because of traditional FF level caps. The "tradition" was often set by graphical limitations.
-Any SJ imbalance can be looked over on a case by case basis. It happened at 80 and the universe hasn't imploded yet.

So my vote is for 100

While I still vote 99, imbalance is not an argument against 100. I find it odd to even mention balance with the current standing of the game. Making Convert and Refresh subbable was the biggest imbalance I could imagine. The only thing that could come even halfway close is /SCH getting 40% higher stratagem efficiency, with higher stratagem count to boot. Apart from that, nothing about this is a major increase, not even Composure.

100 please.

I'm voting for 100.

I'd prefer 100/50. It feels more complete to me, and having the extra spells, abilities and job traits would be nice.

Level 99 please

I"d have to put my vote in and say <Yes Please> to level 100

I also am gonna go ahead and vote for level 100!

Let's get it over with and go 100.

My vote is for 100 because it would be stupid not to accept an extra level if it's being offered. There are no good reasons to vote for 99.

"Level 5 petrify" How often does anyone ever really fight ahrimans?

"Balance" It's not our job to worry about this. Even if they take away all the spells, JT's, and JA's you get from a lvl 50 sub we would still get an extra lvl's worth of hp/mp stats and lvl correction. It's a free, albeit small, buff for every job.

Instead of whining about whether or not X job will get to sub your jobs special abilities and make you less special, whine about getting new special job-defining abilities, that way you can still feel special and we can still get a use out of being able to sub other jobs. I mean that's the point to being able to isn't it? Or maybe SE should just get rid of subjobs altogether and everyone loses?

Oh yea... "Tradition" I don't even know what to say about this. It's not even worth arguing.

100 (Yes, please.)

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Originally Posted by Perfectus

"Level 5 petrify" How often does anyone ever really fight ahrimans?

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*lvl 100 update arrives*
"...ahrimans...ahrimans EVERYWHERE~"

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Originally Posted by Perfectus

Oh yea... "Tradition" I don't even know what to say about this. It's not even worth arguing.

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Neither is anything of what you said. There's no good reason to do it, just as there's no reason not to do it. It's just a matter of personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

While I still vote 99, imbalance is not an argument against 100. I find it odd to even mention balance with the current standing of the game. Making Convert and Refresh subbable was the biggest imbalance I could imagine. The only thing that could come even halfway close is /SCH getting 40% higher stratagem efficiency, with higher stratagem count to boot. Apart from that, nothing about this is a major increase, not even Composure.

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Basically every one of RDM's JA's being sub-jobable is a massive imbalance. Sorry but it is, they were quick enough to block NIN's and WHM's JA's.

I like the idea of seeing my jobs as 100 rather than 99. Although other FF cap at 99 I always had a feeling of being incomplete once I had everyone 99. Plus level 100 would bring extra stat boost which I'm not going to complain about!

I vote 100!

I'd rather SE spend time at Lv.99 working on new abilities for each job, rather than spending all their time at Lv.100 balancing the massive amount of spells and abilities that will suddenly become accessible, considering they barely managed at Lv.80 (see: Red Mage).

Like it or not Lv.100 is going to take a great deal of time to balance and implement; unless they just cap subs at Lv.49, but then Lv.100 is worthless, they have to adjust Lv.50 abilities for Lv.100 to be worthwhile and that's going to take time. Considering they have a much smaller team these days, the cap rise would without a doubt be pushed back an update if they decide to do Lv.100. That means new merits are pushed back an update and new endgame is pushed back an update. Not worth it for one levels worth of stats and maybe some new toys from subjob.

Lv.100 adds little to nothing to the game, its potentially crippling for some jobs and certainly going to push back new content if they decide to seriously balance it. Lv.99 has none of those problems, they've been planning it for about a year now and it should already be set in stone. There's no reason for them to change that now.

Sotek that post is completely speculation.

It's basically a preference, how can you say that 100 is going to squander potential releases, and other abilities. Completely silly. You can't sit there and say that 99, or 100 has any issues. You simply do not know. They have restricted certain abilities from certain jobs more than once. There's no issues with this being implemented in the future.

Regardless of what balancing they do for 100. It still comes down to them ACTUALLY balancing EVERYTHING at 100 ANYWAYS. It's work that will need to be done regardless. So don't say anything gets pushed back simply because of *insert reason here* simply because you feel like it. The post is what would you like to see, 99 or 100? Simple.

It's not for you to sit there and attempt to fathom the capability of the people who actually get paid to balance, create, and continue to COMPETE in the MMO world to continue profiting off of this little money maker. They get paid for a reason, and their main concern right now is appeasing the community on a majority scale. Which right now, in this thread seems to be heavily towards 100.

Voting 99 because all my SJ are lvl 49 and I'm too lazy to lvl them up 1 time.

Seriously though, 99. As said earlier, RDM does not need any more kicks to the nuts. I'm sure they would grant Composure to any job subbing RDM rather than main RDM only, which shows tons of bias towards other jobs (NIN and WHM) for not giving their abilities as a SJ.

If SE could work out some balance between what abilities should be granted and what abilities are main job exclusive, then I wouldn't mind 100 cap. However, my faith in that has been reduced quite a bit over the past year, so I am sticking with 99.

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Originally Posted by Amador

Sotek that post is completely speculation.

It's basically a preference, how can you say that 100 is going to squander potential releases, and other abilities. Completely silly. You can't sit there and say that 99, or 100 has any issues. You simply do not know. They have restricted certain abilities from certain jobs more than once. There's no issues with this being implemented in the future.

Regardless of what balancing they do for 100. It still comes down to them ACTUALLY balancing EVERYTHING at 100 ANYWAYS. It's work that will need to be done regardless. So don't say anything gets pushed back simply because of *insert reason here* simply because you feel like it. The post is what would you like to see, 99 or 100? Simple.

It's not for you to sit there and attempt to fathom the capability of the people who actually get paid to balance, create, and continue to COMPETE in the MMO world to continue profiting off of this little money maker. They get paid for a reason, and their main concern right now is appeasing the community on a majority scale. Which right now, in this thread seems to be heavily towards 100.

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It's not speculation. Not baseless speculation anyway.

Currently the plan is for the cap to be Lv.99. This requires no changes, it's already in motion.
If they change to a Lv.100 cap, they need to balance a great deal of abilities from subs.

I'm not trying to fathom their capabilities. It's a fact that raising the cap to Lv.100 would involve more work than Lv.99. There's a helpful post on the first page that lists all the things that would become accessible via sub, I count at least ten things SE would really need to balance that they wouldn't need to balance with a Lv.99 cap. That's ten extra pieces of work, I'm speculating the time that would take, yes, but it's a cold hard fact that they'd need to do that extra work all the same. Considering they failed with something like Red Mage at Lv.80 and their team has probably gotten smaller since then, I do actually start to doubt their capabilities somewhat. Heck, we just got our August update in September, so lets not pretend that it's impossible for them to delay something even when they haven't got a whole lot of extra work to do.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

Currently the plan is for the cap to be Lv.99. This requires no changes, it's already in motion.
If they change to a Lv.100 cap, they need to balance a great deal of abilities from subs.

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Not really. Nothing at Lv50 is in any way groundbreaking. The real stuff all came from 40 to 49 (Convert, Refresh, WHM Haste, RDM Haste, Accession/Manifestation, Dual Wield III, Sekkanoki, etc.). What does Lv50 have over 49? Stratagems and Composure are the only things even worth mentioning, the rest can be useful, but hardly a balancing issue at all. What subjob balancing have they done in the past? Warcry, Utsusemi: Ni, Meditate, WHM JAs and NIN JAs, those are the only ones worth mentioning.

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Originally Posted by Zatias

Voting 99 because all my SJ are lvl 49 and I'm too lazy to lvl them up 1 time.

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Quite possibly the best reason to vote for 99.

I'd vote that you could take only 1 job to 100 and the rest to 99 :P

http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewt...19090&start=15

I was one of the first to propose a lvl break passed 75 and a new "super" area.

That being said, I'm going to call it...we go passed 99... Unlimited.

The "fear" being shown about who gets what at lvl 100, is the same fear when we went passed 75. Things change, while I diont think we'll see the change soon, once people have gotten used to lvl 99 or 100, and people still interested in playing then eventually we'll go beyond.

One of the most important changes passed 75 was the new freshnest that new sub job offered. Staples such as /nin and /war was no longer needed.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Though this is slightly different than what you are requesting, there have been comments on the JP forum (and I have seen traces of it here as well) asking whether the level cap will ever reach 100. While the current plan is to keep it at 99, if there is enough feedback asking for level 100, we may just look into it. So please let us know what you think!

It seems like there have already been a lot of JP players who posted they prefer level 99. There were also some suggestions by players asking if it would be possible to take just one job to level 100. However, this would just make it so people start requesting we increase the number of jobs you can take to 100, and so on and so forth. Without making it complex, we would prefer just to think about whether we will keep it at 99 or move it up to 100 across the board.

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Honestly i dont see their being that much diffrence in terms of strength or anything from being 99 to 100. I would imagin the main benefit would be any lvl 50 abilities/spells that you would gain from subjobs.

Going back a page for a moment.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

I'd rather SE spend time at Lv.99 working on new abilities for each job, rather than spending all their time at Lv.100 balancing the massive amount of spells and abilities that will suddenly become accessible, considering they barely managed at Lv.80 (see: Red Mage).

Like it or not Lv.100 is going to take a great deal of time to balance and implement; unless they just cap subs at Lv.49, but then Lv.100 is worthless, they have to adjust Lv.50 abilities for Lv.100 to be worthwhile and that's going to take time. Considering they have a much smaller team these days, the cap rise would without a doubt be pushed back an update if they decide to do Lv.100. That means new merits are pushed back an update and new endgame is pushed back an update. Not worth it for one levels worth of stats and maybe some new toys from subjob.

Lv.100 adds little to nothing to the game, its potentially crippling for some jobs and certainly going to push back new content if they decide to seriously balance it. Lv.99 has none of those problems, they've been planning it for about a year now and it should already be set in stone. There's no reason for them to change that now.

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Did you not read my post on page 2? There isn't much to offer at 100/50 in terms of spells and abilities. If you took the time to look it up for yourself on wiki, you would realize this. I don't know where this "massive amount" is coming from. Possibly out of your rear?

I get that you are against 100, I am too. However, if you are going to make an argument against it, make sure you bring facts and not imaginary data that you haven't even thought about. The only things that would come at 100/50, for subs, that could potentially "break" the games mechanics is Composure for RDM and Super Jump for DRG. Would you like to know how SE would balance this out? If you guessed anything other than "lock the ability on subs", you would be wrong. Because that is exactly what SE would do and not give it a second thought.

With that said, I (again) vote for level 99.

I love how this thread progressed from this

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Originally Posted by SirDayne

I would like to see some sort of job advancement (not merits) mission/quest/battle once we hit level 99. This is an idea that while similar to Final Fantasy I's job upgrades, but would be different.

FFXI's AF1 armor mentions alternate names (or titles) for the jobs we play as, which is more or less a title that's said but not really done anything with.
Black Mage = Wizard
Red Mage = Warlock
etc.

In FFI you were able to advance your job to an upgraded version which granted new spells and abilities. e.g.
Black Wizard got new spells, Warrior became Knight and gained access to low tier White Magic and able to equip all weapons and armor.

So basically, tl;dr:
I am suggesting a new job advancement system for Level 99 jobs that indicate mastery of a job. You would have to complete a challenging (but not impossible) quest in a new dungeon [The Citadel] and fight a final boss in order to earn the right to your new job title.

Once completed, you would gain access to powerful new spells and abilities earned via Trial of the Magians or story-based quests. Subjobs would be disabled (or very gimped) on the "new jobs" in order to maintain game balance.

Black Mage => Black Wizard (WIZ)
White Mage => Devout (DVT)
Red Mage => Warlock (WLK)
etc.

Feel free to add to this.

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To this....

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100 is a much nicer number to look at than 99.

There may be some balance issues to look at with support job abilities, but I mean, there are already abilities that have been set to main-job-only (such as Yonin/Innin).

As a result, I'd definitely prefer 100. It's a nice round number.

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And the reason for this epic derailment???

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Though this is slightly different than what you are requesting, there have been comments on the JP forum (and I have seen traces of it here as well) asking whether the level cap will ever reach 100. While the current plan is to keep it at 99, if there is enough feedback asking for level 100, we may just look into it. So please let us know what you think!

It seems like there have already been a lot of JP players who posted they prefer level 99. There were also some suggestions by players asking if it would be possible to take just one job to level 100. However, this would just make it so people start requesting we increase the number of jobs you can take to 100, and so on and so forth. Without making it complex, we would prefer just to think about whether we will keep it at 99 or move it up to 100 across the board

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CAMATE DERAILED THE THREAD!

Camate tends to post things that were translated from responses in the JP forums.
There tends to be an isomorphism between the two forums: that is, if there's an important thread about it in the JP forum, there's a thread about it in the EN forums and vice-versa.

The LV100 response was posted a few days ago in the JP forums, and I'm guessing this was the closest thread Camate could find in which to post the English response.

We don't get translations of everything, though. For example, there was a recent post about the adjustments to Dynamis. Something about "adjustments were made with the intention of increasing the supply of ancient currency, but it may have increased the supply more than intended, so we're looking into the situation." We haven't heard anything about that on the EN side, yet, as far as I've seen?

For traditional purposes, I believe the cap should remain at 99. Also, while the JA/JT additions are enticing, doing so would inevitably set us up for disappointment because of the key JA that would inevitably get cut from sub jobs. Abilities like composure would just be too powerful and would have to be mitigated or removed, resulting in more complaining.

JT would not be removed because they have not been thus far. This means SCH would become the primary mage sub job given the extra stratagem reduction and SAM or DNC (building flourish) would be a primo sub as well for melee. It does not promote that level of diversity that FFXI does so promote and gets us in the same predicament as the NIN condition we used to have. Stick to tradition, and I can practically guarantee a content fan base.

I actually like the idea of only one level 100 :x

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Originally Posted by Delvish

JT would not be removed because they have not been thus far.

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I think you mean JA.
And go sub WHM or NIN and try to use Afflatus: Solace, Afflatus: Misery, Yonin, or Innin.
You can't use them.
Why?
Because SE removed them from subjob use.

I doubt it would take a large amount of time for the Development Bros to balance things out for a level 100 cap rather than the planned level 99 cap, but I'm sure it would take some amount of time. They'll have to send an intern to fight the Flying Spaghetti Code Monster with armaments of a promise for less-miserable employment and some barely readable notes by former staff members after things go horribly wrong, after all.

Even if it just takes one workday to make Super-Jump, Composure, & Associates not usable when subbed and two days to slay the Flying Spaghetti Code Monster that inexplicably appears, I'd prefer they spend those three workdays on something else.

I'll happily welcome the 20 HP and MP, sub-job benefits, and slight level correction that I'll gain with level 100. I don't expect anything else that I wouldn't get with a level cap of 99 to come with it, though, so I'd just as soon the Development Bros. stick with their current plan.

That, and gaining one level on a half-dozen to dozen sub-jobs will hurt my wiener. That's an awful lot of warping while someone else kills stuff for my Dominion Ops or Grounds of Valor pages.

Another vote to keep it at 99. I also do not trust SE's ability to balance the lvl 50 abilities.

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Honestly, If RDM was to get Cure V, they would have to give it to PLD as well, considering the level range of cures. Doesn't seem right. RDM wasn't designed to be a main healer and we know this. We forced it into that position and neglected its enfeebling for years. SCH on the other hand should at least gain access to the spell.

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Except RDM learns Cures before SCH. SCH learns Cure spells at the same level that PLD does. So if anything RDM ought to get it before SCH. SCH could/should only have it during Addendum.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Except RDM learns Cures before SCH. SCH learns Cure spells at the same level that PLD does. So if anything RDM ought to get it before SCH. SCH could/should only have it during Addendum.

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Exactly!

I don't know where people get it from that SCH should get it either first, or be the only one to get it when they learn it quite a few levels later than RDM.

f it all, level 100 or die. Classic action

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I'd like to see the cap remain at 99 myself. There are too many balance issues with raising it to 100

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Balance issues that are easily addressed by restricting/nerfing certain abilities on subjob, as they have in the past. Balance argument holds no water.

At level 100, easy prey to 75 mobs should STOP FARKIN AGGROING.

I say 100.

Level 100/50 please, and unlock the exclusive abilities for nin and whm so we can use them when subbing those jobs. In case of imbalance, just reduce the effectiveness of them. Afflatus solace/misery could be kept as strong as it is though, the only thing that would do would be to make rdm and sch more viable healers.