Sooo.... Emps?

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

You realize by posting something like that you have just revealed what kind of person you are, and it's nothing positive.

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Everyone knows what kind of person and poster Xbob is.

That is fine. the person was is an a hole for saying people that choose woe weapon over emp are lazy. Does reality and truthful comments make you a bad person. then i am bad.

I call bs. Unless someone botted you for your emp or did all the work getting KI for you.

ITT: Someone gets stuff faster than I do, they must be botting

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Everyone knows what kind of person and poster Xbob is.

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Yep, one that tells it as it is, and doesn't suck up to SE and the Mods.

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Originally Posted by xbobx

That is fine. the person was is an a hole for saying people that choose woe weapon over emp are lazy. Does reality and truthful comments make you a bad person. then i am bad.

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Funny how I know a lot of people with rl commitments such as work, family and/or school, and they still have managed to find the time to make an empyrean weapon. Some have more than one, even.

Your "truthful comments" aren't any more correct than someone saying everyone who gets a WoE weapon instead of empyrean is lazy. And that "sitting in your (momma's) basement" crap is tired and old and just plain stupid.

I ask again. Did anybody investigate any of this 90->95 stuff on the test server weeks ago?

If the reports are true and they may not be. Heavy Metal Plates are 100% drop from tier 4 NMs in VW. There are also pouches.

I'll be frank in saying my Emps will most likely never get past 90. The reason I chose to do it in the first place was that I got a decent weapon for the amount free time I could put in. Now I need 1500 Metal Plates? But Relic/Mythics need to kill 5-10 NMs? That's not fair. I get to work for a year or more for a crap 9 DMG upgrade with 2 STR. I don't think so.

I know and agree that Relics/Mythics should be better then Empryeans but just because they complained doesn't mean that SE needed to destroy Empryeans for those of us who don't have as much time/money to invest in the game.

Empryeans are still great weapons. SE is just balancing out the time/reward ratio. If you want to stay top tier it's time for Emp people to put in work too.

I think something is fishy because the OAT weapons require 150 drops (from VW) and woe wpns require 150 too so If the plates come from VW there may be a bogus in the amount of plates required. 1500 means you need to kill at least 150 of them with an alliance, and get all the drops. It's not very realistic seeing as all empy 95 will require it. Also the wpns boost from 90-95 is pretty much a joke meaning noone will care anyway.

I can see the HMP coming from VW, but if they require some where from 750 to 1500 kills thats asking too much (since you can only pop so many monsters a day), if you can get about 25 from a pouch or w/e it wouldn't be too much of an issue, since 1500/25 is 60 (will still take over a month). I read someone saying he fully farmed an apoc in about a month doing dynamis so having it take longer than a month of constant VW (you can get about 2 Void watch stones a day without IS CP or AN?) is reasonable for a 95.

although it is still the wrong end to balance the weapons, if they wanted to balance them make us do extra NM camps and get plates or w/e, give us multiple part trials that are accessible in that case. The counter part to these is dynamis currency which is very accessible if you actually do dynamis (though the 100s could use a higher drop rate compared to what they have been)

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Originally Posted by Feliciaa

Empryeans are still great weapons. SE is just balancing out the time/reward ratio. If you want to stay top tier it's time for Emp people to put in work too.

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I think you meant to say something different. 1500 drops off a HNM fight for +2 stat and +6ish base damage is hardly a good example of time/reward.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

I think you meant to say something different. 1500 drops off a HNM fight for +2 stat and +6ish base damage is hardly a good example of time/reward.

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they mean the entirety of an emp weapon, not that stage specifically

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Originally Posted by xbobx

I call bs. Unless someone botted you for your emp or did all the work getting KI for you.

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None of the above. I don't bot, I never have, and I probably never will. I Cataclysm-cleaved all of my Tahrongi pops (was one of the original people doing this and spreading information about it on BG), and was always present and working throughout the duration of my Emps, even when other friends of mine were just afk leeching EXP off me. I have friends who I can log on with and go do things with immediately without having to wait around and try to find people for things, and that's really the only advantage I have over "most" people. But honestly, having friends is not cheating.

I'm a dedicated student with a social life, a girlfriend, and a hell of a lot of other things I do outside of playing FFXI. I'm sorry that you seem to think anyone who's better than you at a video game has to be a low life basement dweller with no friends and no commitments, but you're dead wrong. I have priorities. I'm just plain better at FFXI than you, and you're just going to have to get the hell over that.

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Originally Posted by Juilan

I can see the HMP coming from VW, but if they require some where from 750 to 1500 kills thats asking too much (since you can only pop so many monsters a day), if you can get about 25 from a pouch or w/e it wouldn't be too much of an issue, since 1500/25 is 60 (will still take over a month). I read someone saying he fully farmed an apoc in about a month doing dynamis so having it take longer than a month of constant VW (you can get about 2 Void watch stones a day without IS CP or AN?) is reasonable for a 95.

although it is still the wrong end to balance the weapons, if they wanted to balance them make us do extra NM camps and get plates or w/e, give us multiple part trials that are accessible in that case. The counter part to these is dynamis currency which is very accessible if you actually do dynamis (though the 100s could use a higher drop rate compared to what they have been)

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This is why the high level design of the mythic weapon quests was so good. There you basically had to 100% ToAU and got something nice for it. It failed miserably when the devs decided "oh well we should make people turn in 50,000 things, do all the assaults over again, and rack up an silly amount of Ichor". I'm pretty sure if alexandrite reqs were dropped to 1000, Ichor by 1/2 and assault do over removed people would still not bother since you still only get the 75 version and all the super fun trials after that.

The devs needed to take a hint from the mythic quests. There is a ton of content surrounding abyssea but instead they half assed it.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

they mean the entirety of an emp weapon, not that stage specifically

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That seems about right. 50-50-75 is still bullshit in my opinion though. There are tons of other ways they could have structured it to be challenging and engaging.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Seeing as tier 2 Voidwatch was done on the test server with 1 person getting a plate in their chest what more proof do you need? You seem like one of those people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

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I think it's more like he desperately, desperately hopes it's not true.

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

Most likely it will be revised from 1500 or plate drops increased. Also, theres talk of mythic becoming 2-3 occ attack so perhaps empyrean will see 2-3x damage at 99. This seems likely to me and justifies the 1500 plates and whatever the final 99 upgrade trial contains.

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I think it's more likely that with Tanaka back in charge of FFXI easy mode is being turned off. First day back on the job he probably looked at the last year of content and said "My god they've ruined it!"

I love how people cried so much for FFXI to go back to how it was pre-abyssea and now that its starting to not be as easy as abyssea people are crying the game is going back to how it was pre-abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

A player who is competent and capable enough to perfect their gear is more than competent and capable enough to acquire an Empyrean weapon. I'm not going to knock someone who is actually making non-Malacite levels of progress on their first, but it is a reasonable expectation that any good player is capable of getting as many Empyreans as they want with minimal issue. These are not Relic or Mythic weapons. If a player is capped on gear, but is not pursuing a relevant Empyrean (obviously this only counts for the jobs where the Emps matter), then they are doing something wrong.

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I see what you mean. When you concider yourself against the players you'd want to be around then it would be subpar. I was gonna say "What if I leveled Nin as a red proc bitch job to help with my empy farming, already got all it's +2 materials rot whilest farming and had other gear from other jobs already, but couldn't be bothered to do an emp/woe for a proc whore job, would it still be subpar?" But thinking about it, compared to the other players I like to play around, yes it would.

I'll be fine with my war, which I lvld as a red bitch proc job being subpar. But I will probably go for Empy/WoE for the others. Of Thf at least, might just do WoE bow for rng if it's got Arma already, and OAT for drg.

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I love how people cried so much for FFXI to go back to how it was pre-abyssea and now that its starting to not be as easy as abyssea people are crying the game is going back to how it was pre-abyssea.

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Problem is we liked the game as it was but once you get used to how it is now its really hard to go back. I did the old endgame content, HNM camps for 4-8 hours every day, late night events etc and at the time I enjoyed them but now I've got used to new FFXI the thought of how it used to be makes me want to puke.

Even the most hardcore of us isn't really ready for the game time warping back to old "tanaka" ways.

What's up with the whining about Emps, they are the easiest job specific end game weapons to get so far. Dare i remind you all about the Mythics?

30,000 Alexandrite
Balrahn's Eyepatch
Wyrmseeker Areuhat
100,000 Therion Ichor
150,000 Nyzul Isle Tokens
Mamool Ja Journal
Lebros Chronicle
Leujaoam Log
Periqia Diary
Ilrusi Ledger

Plus all the prerequisite quests, basically beating the whole expansion content 100%. Then running it for months to acquire the items/ichor/alexandrite.

lolemp >.>

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

What's up with the whining about Emps, they are the easiest job specific end game weapons to get so far.

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No one is whining about Emps. They're whining about the new upgrade choice, which puts Emps right at where Relics and Mythics are right now (possibly short after Mythics, but before relics in annoyingness).

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Originally Posted by Arcon

No one is whining about Emps. They're whining about the new upgrade choice, which puts Emps right at where Relics and Mythics are right now (possibly short after Mythics, but before relics in annoyingness).

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So what are these 1500 what ever they ares? I haven't botehred to look. Are they tradable? If not, that gives relic/mythic a slight leg up.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Problem is we liked the game as it was but once you get used to how it is now its really hard to go back. I did the old endgame content, HNM camps for 4-8 hours every day, late night events etc and at the time I enjoyed them but now I've got used to new FFXI the thought of how it used to be makes me want to puke.

Even the most hardcore of us isn't really ready for the game time warping back to old "tanaka" ways.

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This, a million times this. Can has happy middle ground please? Somewhere between EZModeXI and lolwutdorpsXI?

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

So what are these 1500 what ever they ares? I haven't botehred to look. Are they tradable? If not, that gives relic/mythic a slight leg up.

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1500x Heavy Metal. They're tradeable, drop off VWNMs.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

1500x Heavy Metal. They're tradeable, drop off VWNMs.

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Then epyrean is still a joke, but they just got way more expensive. I.e. not free anymore unless your have a VWNM LS. lol

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Originally Posted by Arcon

No one is whining about Emps. They're whining about the new upgrade choice, which puts Emps right at where Relics and Mythics are right now (possibly short after Mythics, but before relics in annoyingness).

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I Stand Behind You On This One.

I am excited about coming full circle on My Weapon. [Void > Abyssea > Void] and getting a chance to really test My Outside Abyssea WS Set on the New Mobs. However, the extension of required items is excessive. For the moment, I feel it is best to wait and see what the drop ratio maybe. For us Emp Weilders, let Us Hope the drop ratio of Heavy Metal Plates are not along the lines of waitting in Xara for your Relic THF and RDM to arrive, pre-level capped raised.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

ITT: Someone gets stuff faster than I do, they must be botting

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This so much the ammount times i get accused of been a fish bot stuff because i happen to enjoy fishing is really laughable. The gimp in question circles around me does some kind of emote then says bot, to which i reply get lost in not so kind words, it happens at least once a day lol.

Really makes me laugh.

I gotta say I love everyone who is wining about how hard 90-95 stage is for such a minimal reward. It damn well should be. Empyreans are stronger than Relic and Mythic in some instances. In gil alone a relic will cost over 100mil gil and an mythic can cost around 300mil gil. They take a lot more effort. Empyreans on the other hand can be busted out very quickly and easilly.

Why should an Empyrean be better than Mythics and Relics, when they take considerbly less time, gil and/or effort? This is SE's way of leveling the playing field, and making it so it is actually expensive and time consuming to have your ultimate weapon.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

I gotta say I love everyone who is wining about how hard 90-95 stage is for such a minimal reward. It damn well should be. Empyreans are stronger than Relic and Mythic in some instances. In gil alone a relic will cost over 100mil gil and an mythic can cost around 300mil gil. They take a lot more effort. Empyreans on the other hand can be busted out very quickly and easilly.

Why should an Empyrean be better than Mythics and Relics, when they take considerbly less time, gil and/or effort? This is SE's way of leveling the playing field, and making it so it is actually expensive and time consuming to have your ultimate weapon.

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Time consuming isn't fun. It's just time consuming.
Not everyone has the time to burn on a weapon when there are thousands of other things to do in ffxi or in other games that you can accomplish things much faster and still have the same sense of accomplishment.

Generally, I prefer getting my rewards from Skills, not time consuming elements.

Apparently SE disagrees since everything in this latest patch has been an across the board grind for all.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Apparently SE disagrees since everything in this latest patch has been an across the board grind for all.

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There's content in this game that ISN'T a massive grind? Where?!

A ultimate weapon is ment to be time consuming but in emp case you get to enjoy a very powerful weapon without having it @95. Which is not the case for a majority of the relic/mythic weapons.

Easy mode is over with. However, emp holders can still put out great numbers. You just might not be the best DD @99.

SE did say they were moving away from level 75 content and that 91-99 would be more involved in anything that is done. I would imagine this is just a smaller portion of what will be due for a lvl 99 empyrean weapon.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

I gotta say I love everyone who is wining about how hard 90-95 stage is for such a minimal reward. It damn well should be. Empyreans are stronger than Relic and Mythic in some instances. In gil alone a relic will cost over 100mil gil and an mythic can cost around 300mil gil. They take a lot more effort. Empyreans on the other hand can be busted out very quickly and easilly.

Why should an Empyrean be better than Mythics and Relics, when they take considerbly less time, gil and/or effort? This is SE's way of leveling the playing field, and making it so it is actually expensive and time consuming to have your ultimate weapon.

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None should be a pain in the ass grind fest but they all should require some sort of dedication and meaningful challenge. At present mythics(minus the salvage, Einherjar, and assault grinding) are the only weapons that require that dedication and provide you that challenge.

Relics barely give you a challenge. Once you've proven you can find and turn in a handful of currency the only thing stopping you from finishing is supply and your wallet. Having to get access to Northlands and fight certain dynamis NMs was kind of a challenge but that's about as far as it went with it.

Empyreans are even worse. Once you've proven you can kill whatever boss once or twice what's the point in killing it another 40 times? There isn't a point since it's a quest design cop out.

Like I've said a million times before mythics are best in terms of design. Completing the ToAU storyline requires dedication and is a challenge. Obtaining a captain wildcat badge requires dedication and is a challenge. Killing the 3 ToAU beast kings requires dedication and is a challenge. Clearing all Einherjar wings including odin's chamber requires dedication and is a challenge. Defeating the 4 chariots requires dedication and is a challenge. Gathering the trophies off Sarameya, Tinnin and Tyger requires dedication and is a challenge.

It's a little known fact that a small percentage of people who put a game into their console/PC will actually finish it. Don't believe me? If you have steam go open it up and look at the percentage of people who unlock achievements for starting the game versus finishing it. Don't have steam? go look at this year's census. Do you see where I'm going with this? Completing content would have been enough to justify a mythic weapon. Unfortunately development derp'd and decided to make the player collect a billion things so too many people wouldn't finish the quest. Because we all know 40,000 ultimate weapons entering the playerbase in less than a year would totally destroy the game...oh wait...

Mdk got a silver mirror from a tier II city-VoidWatch btw lol, so HeavyMetalPlate either come from tierII in the new zones don't come from VoidWatch at all.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

mdk got a silver mirror from a tier II city VW btw lol so HMT comes from tierII in new VW or don't come at all.

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what the f*** are you trying to say

@Catsby
The problem with Mythic Weapons, is that out of the 20 of them maybe 3 or 4 are actually worth the effort involved. Requiring all the NM titles for them is fine and a lot easier than it was back at 75. However, the rest of the requirements are nothing more than a time-sink. I have Captain rank so I've done all 51 Assault Battles. And while most were fun a the time and would be easier now pre-lvl cap, I don't think I'd want to do all 50 again.

As far as empyreans go, I don't know what other requirements would make them "a challenge" or involve "dedication." If you mean requiring NM titles like a mythic, most people will/have beat/beaten Shinryuu simply for the atma/abyssite if not the gear.

There's noting really wrong with the 1500 Heavy Metal Plates for the 95 trial. My only worry is that it's been 4 days since the update and no one has posted finding their location yet. If they're from voidwatch, that's fine. But considering no one has found them yet, or at least posted finding them yet, I would seem this trial will be a rather huge time-sink.

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The problem with Mythic Weapons, is that out of the 20 of them maybe 3 or 4 are actually worth the effort involved. Requiring all the NM titles for them is fine and a lot easier than it was back at 75. However, the rest of the requirements are nothing more than a time-sink. I have Captain rank so I've done all 51 Assault Battles. And while most were fun a the time and would be easier now pre-lvl cap, I don't think I'd want to do all 50 again.

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Whether or not they are "worth it" is a matter of personal opinion. There are probably people out there with the mythic katana or axe that are perfectly content with them. Yes, I agree with you some of the requirements are time sinks. Collecting a tens of thousands of alexandrite, meaningless. Completing all the assaults again when you already need to play them again for remnants permits and AP, dumb. The point was that by doing everything ToAU related you have experienced everything that the expansion had to offer and far more than an average player. The dumb grindy parts could have easily been replaced with better challenges like breaking mirrors in zones that had them, clearing Ashu Talif, clearing some ISNMs, and unlocking the jobs that came with the expansion.

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As far as empyreans go, I don't know what other requirements would make them "a challenge" or involve "dedication." If you mean requiring NM titles like a mythic, most people will/have beat/beaten Shinryuu simply for the atma/abyssite if not the gear.

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Well the first problem is ToM. Yes it's good that there are a ton of reward paths you can take but ToM as a whole is a platform for lazy development. If empyrean weapons were just separated from ToM and put into proper quests it could work out a lot better. Let's look at what you are do now to get an empyrean to 85;

1)kill low level NM 3 times
2)kill low level NM 3 times
3)kill low level NM 3 times
4)kill low level NM 4 times
5)kill low level NM 4 times
6)kill low level NM 4 times
7)kill T1 VNM 6 times
8)kill T1 VNM 6 times
9)kill gray path T1 VNM 8 times
10) Turn in 50 Visions boss trophies
11) Turn in 50 Heroes boss trophies

That's a whole shit ton of meaningless redundancies. You can't tell me you actually enjoyed standing in some deadend zone waiting for your lottery NM when you could have been doing quests/content that would grant you immediate rewards and ultimately gain you an empyrean weapon. Quests/content like;

1)Obtaining a colored abyssite
2)Defeating Yilbegan
3)defeating Dawon
4)Clearing Walk of Echos( confluxes up to that release)
5)Defeating all Visions bosses
6)Gaining hero status in Visions zones
7)Defeating all Scars bosses
8)Gaining hero status in Scars zones
9)Winning bastion defensives in all Scars zones
10)Obtaining 60 Atmas
11)Obtaining all 6 demilune abysites

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There's noting really wrong with the 1500 Heavy Metal Plates for the 95 trial. My only worry is that it's been 4 days since the update and no one has posted finding their location yet. If they're from voidwatch, that's fine. But considering no one has found them yet, or at least posted finding them yet, I would seem this trial will be a rather huge time-sink.

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Perspective. There is plenty wrong with making a dumb new item that drops somewhere and saying "yeah collect 1,500 of these and be thankful we didn't make it 30,000 like alexandrite". Another problem is that this 1500 turn in shouldn't even be a surprise since the test server has been out for weeks. Why the flying fnck didn't anybody notice this earlier?