Clearly you haven't played with an optimal BLU nuke set... I've scored roughly 5k in Abyssea with Charged Whisker in an AoE effect (this is an extreme case, my average is in the 3500-3800s ) using the set here, which is lacking the +2 versions of the AF3: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/203346Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyreus
Charged Whisker is primarily modded by DEX, then INT, but MAB provides a large boost, which is where the gloves shine. Preferred atmas are generally Baying Moon/Beyond/MM until I get Lion and Ultimate, at which point I'll switch to Ultimate/Blinding Horn/Lion for a Charged Whisker set. Yes, this is only for one spell, but since this spell is essentially the BLU version of a cleave, it has very applicable uses if you can boost the damage up to the 4-4.5k range, especially since its overall damage isn't reduced by anything but resists. Time building, anyone?
Even when I'm set up for a middle build (Beyond/Razed Ruins/MM) I still average upper-2000s. A BLU with a proper magic build can do so much more.
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Anyway, back on topic as to the uneven distribution of the sets, I disagree once more, at least in terms of hands. If you need haste, use Ocelot/Dusk gloves. However, recast on the hands is significantly better (3% Haste versus 6% Recast time = 3% further decrease in recast) so it is useful to stick them on for sleeps, Actinic Burst, Head Butt, and Occultation (just to list some examples) in order to lower their recast to a minimal count. Personally, with 24% haste (need to +2 body and legs for capped gear haste) in gear and 15% further magical haste from Animating Wail and then this 6% decrease from the hands, I've got Head Butt on a four-second recast, meaning that until something builds resistance I could easily stunlock it with minimal difficulty.
Empyrean Armor
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04-07-2011, 08:46 AMKensagaku
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04-07-2011, 11:35 PMKitkat
My nuke set is far from ideal (still need Morrigans, Hands+2, hecate's, Novio) but already I can hit upwards of 4500 with little effort in abyssea, as high as 5400, using Ultimate, MM, Lion. Projected increase of CW from Ultimate, BH, Lion would add ~400-500 more making this one heck of a time farming spell. Additionally, I've been in situations where I had to resort to full on nuke setups because getting too close to an NM was dangerous, or it had "modes" that it became stuck in and only took magical damage (Lusca). While the spells are slightly costly, the damage/mp is better or equal to Blm nukes, which wasn't always the case.
And if you're complaining about the stats of the armor then you don't know the situational uses for it. Currently I can't say the full set, even with set bonus, is worth using full time, but there are a couple other sets that aren't either over alternative slot choices. Through a combination of homam, AF3+2, and twilight belt you'll be sitting at 26% haste not to mention body gives +macc for additional effects to land and has -12% blue magic casting speed, plus 2mp/tic refresh and 12acc making it hands down the best tp body. Head is another example by giving us +skill, haste, and accuracy with a little added bonus to chain affinity making it rather nice. Legs is by far the most useful piece just because of str/dex skill and efflux boosts, obviously.
Feet and hands round out the magical damage area of blu by giving us the most MAB of any other option we could use, +10 int or mnd, macc, and either reducing recast or enhancing burst affinity.
So for the situational aspects, I say the pieces are nice, but as a full time set...not so much. Then again I still can't find specific test data on how often, or effective the set bonus is in 5/5 nor have I had time to test 4/5. On random occasions with 2 or more pieces on I'll see a random 12% increase on damage, but I don't have enough conclusive data on proc rate or deffinitive confirmation of if this is from the set bonus activation or typical variance on damage yet. -
04-14-2011, 12:30 AMRaenRyong
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e5...g/1079f5b2.png ~ Charged Whiskerrrr (standard buffs).
I could understand the complaining if we didn't get Haste hands/feet elsewhere but since we do... accept the feet/hands as the great utility pieces they are! -
04-19-2011, 09:27 PMFyreus
kitkat i am talking about where things are placed. It isn't hard to guess when i should wear what since i macro in an everyones grudge MB macro for darkness and charged whiskers MB macro for light. When you reshuffle your stats around for more or even minimum/maximum stats you'll see what i'm getting to.
The issue i have is 1)stats tossed all over the place so we 2)wear ABD instead of ABCDE like the majority of other af3 wearing classes who have 3) access to a less gimped set rate. How many people take this into consideration? 2 people?? In my melee, ws, and mb setups i have no use for blu body so it won't be on my list of things to get unless i need faster heals and the head is a great CA macro swap in/out item so it's nice to have i will admit. Before april i would solo my stuff so a store tp/haste setup kept me alive and reaving wind/delta thrust/headbutt turned the game into easy mode. Now that my main hand is stuck in a cast i'm forced to respond faster and using these nuke setups don't further my cause atm lol. I get 2kish EG, CW, and 1.2k regurgitations (if i can get this to do 2.5k+ dmg then this would be my spell of choice for obvious reasons) minor gear parts and nq staffs since my setup isn't badass yet.
The magic damage comment is because of how my server functions: No one will invite or stay in a blu nuke group unless they have proper education as to how blu works and can function in a party. Just pugs anyway >_> I'd rather push out similar hateless damage from my smn or manawall/dump hate or even dot/nuke damage from sch tbh. While the fact that blu damage isn't resisted on a group is nice i can only see it being useful in an chest/exp burn which isn't too terrible but has very limited use.
*edit*for the record i am aiming at gaining a very large amount of total haste that blu is able to aquire solo like 26% gear 15% spell and 5% JA for 46 of 80%. Not all values on gear are "as-is" so i won't stop at 25 on the mark. Whenever i get a brd or a merited dnc or BOTH then i'm pretty much happy. -
04-19-2011, 09:59 PMKensagakuIn order:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyreus
1) The reason we have stats tossed all over the place is because we make use of the most stats in the game. Most DDs focus on STR or DEX, with AGI for the evasive ones, and most mages focus on INT or MND based on their role. As a BLU, using EVERY stat to max out your abilities is important. Every one of them has some potent role in our abilities.
2) So what if we wear ABD? My NIN wears head, legs, feet but doesn't main the body or hands. Should I be upset? Nah. My SMN uses head/body/feet with avatars out, and just the head without! Still not upset about it. Pieces are situational, and they appear in most sets. I see few sets in which maining all five pieces is worth it (mostly WAR and THF come to mind).
3) Most set rates suck. Most of them are roughly 5~10% with 5 pieces, as I recall.
Other notes:
Bwuh? The body is great for meleeing in. Haste (easier to cap gear haste with 2/3% Haste), Refresh (2 extra MP/tick DURING battle, shocker! This'll help when we get out of abyssea), and Acc (Gotta make sure to land those hits!) make it all great for meleeing in. It's also great for spells you just can't get off fast enough, like sleeps and such due to the M.acc and -6/12% spellcasting time. That body piece is amazing, and it's not like it doesn't have its uses.
Why would you only swap in/out the head? Haste (Oh hey look, that gear haste cap is calling again), sword skill (acc, damage if you break a tier), and Acc (hitting again!) make it worth maining.
As to the magic damage comment - I understand how that works. Most people invite BLUs to PUGs in order to build azure lights, or for procing. Most don't see how much we can put out! ;) -
04-20-2011, 07:57 AMFyreus
The head is easily swapped for haste and spell/ws damage since acc is something i won't need. I am working getting a goading and aias bonnet for what i'm aiming for plus i have a tanaris for tp (almost 30 store tp)so till i run low on mp i put on mirage till battery charge is back up. As a blu/dnc i always have tp stored away for emergency or CA boost and enough tp to heal and sc every 1:40 and good m.acc so i'm pretty good for now (414 blu skill with nq legs for casting but aiming for 423 and still no af2 head). Most of what i do is outside of abyssea so i gear accordingly and every build i run into has abyssea on it...
Maybe i need to make some solo videos to show what i am talking about. Blu is pretty much what Avesta should have used imho and the majority of the gear does have it's uses but its too middle road. -
04-20-2011, 12:32 PMKensagakuUm... I'm talking about TPing in the head. I personally cast in an Aias Bonnet when CA isn't up. It's a great haste piece and unless you have something like the Haste+8% piece that drops from Panktonrator (spelling ><; ) it's probably one of the highest amounts you'll have in the head slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyreus
Why a goading? I guess I can see STP, but at the same time, you're losing out on 2% haste and 2% DA from Twilight. STP can only require less rounds to get 100% TP, while Haste gets you more attack rounds in that same time. I need one of the BG math folks to do the calculations but as far as I know, Haste is better for the most part. Again, I could be wrong and I need one of my smart math folks (RaenRyong, I'm looking at you!) to really test this.
Mirage versus Mavi+2 - No comparison. 2 MP/tick > 1 MP/tick, and it still keeps its accuracy bonuses, not to mention adding on more haste (again, I'd prefer a math person to work this out, to see which is more potent; the STP or the Haste).
The problem I see with this statement is that you're doing stuff outside of abyssea. Even with atmas tossed on, I'd say that stuff inside Abyssea still trumps stuff outside. Outside stuff is old content and fairly easy; nothing in there is leveled up to reasonable levels. Hell, my RDM, which isn't that great overall, easily soloed Seiryu. My BST can tear through anything with minimal trouble and a single jug pet. I was off soloing jailers in Sea on NIN/DNC. Stuff outside of Abyssea isn't hard.Quote:
Most of what i do is outside of abyssea so i gear accordingly and every build i run into has abyssea on it...
As a BLU/DNC in Abyssea, you're likely to need to heal more often. Therefore your TP and MP will deplete a bit faster unless you're using Regain/Refresh atmas, which could potentially reduce your potential to DD aside from the one expected Refresh atma. Your M.acc might not stick as well (though with the way you describe your skill, etc I think you'd be fine anyway) and certainly you'd see a difference in your damage, and not necessarily for the better. The problem is that you're doing the old, easy content (though admittedly, easy-mode Abyssea isn't that much harder unless you've got idiots slowing you down or messing you up). -
04-20-2011, 12:56 PMRaenRyong
I can do a full comparison of any given two pieces if necessary but I can't think of a single piece in the game where, given an option between Haste (uncapped) or Store TP, you'd take the Store TP on a onehanded job. Perhaps I'm overlooking pieces? Regardless;
Goading vs Twilight: if you are capping Haste with either, 5stp might improve your damage by a TINY bit more than Twilight inside Abyssea but we're talking minor. If you're not capping Haste, Twilight destroys Goading by a significant margin.
Mavi+2 vs Taranis in a situation where the 13 accuracy difference isn't changing anything is again a significant victory for Haste. 5sTP will provide approximately 5% more TP gain, but 3% Haste with just capped gear haste and nothing else is +4% TP gain and +4% DoT damage. Capped gear haste + the spell (which you will always have, courtesy of Animating Wail) is roughly a 5% increase in TP gain speed and DoT damage. -
04-20-2011, 09:13 PMFyreus
Did anyone forget why i use store tp? I get 100tp every 25 secs ya know. In a few days i will have obtained 4 items i need and will have no need for abyssea while there's tons of mission content i can do that i haven't. There isn't any need to fight more stuff for an extra tic of mp on a gear that i afk in since mp is basically wavering around 70% most of the time. Quad and heals used to take up most of my mp until i regeared for faster stronger deltas as main spam and keeping others for alternate use and waltzes as a main source of healing. See why i use store tp? Haste will be capped soon and double attacking on an occasional attack weapon may only happen once in a while. The problem here is everyone assumes the only thing to do involves atmas.
kensagaku the assumptions made are way off most t3 mobs (vnm t3 and altepa t3 pops) hit me for 200~300dmg when i gain hate and blink is bypassed so how much damage would waltz+fruit stacking heal back? 933 without full blu cure potency and there isn't much scary stuff in abyssea to begin with because atmas and brew make abyssea easier than older content. In abyssea i don't use any refresh atmas unless i'm in a party killing things as fast as possible. I also don't see why you'd mention the math behind haste when we're talking about a haste gear capped situation :/ so why are we suddenly uncapping me? the above post is a scenario seems copy and pasted for some random dude and little to do with me when talking about capped haste.
In a situation where a person is haste capped store tp and double attack are great additions but when store tp already fills the other slots it's best to round off your tp per hit then move to double attack (in reference to goading vs twilight) and if i went and got twilight i'd be way over and have strange tp (i did say 30store tp).
-In the end the more/faster tp i have to play with the better and with and 2%(4.72 delay) of 236 will take 50 rounds (236/4.72) or 300%tp to get an extra attack round so if i add those extra attack rounds together for 15 hits then i'd gain 100% extra tp every 4,500% tp (45 rounds of WS spam on what nm??).
Here's the math: 219 delay = 3.65 secs x15hits (18 for those without +30stp and have the rajas+brutal on) = 54.75 secs till 100TP (occ. att. 2~+ and store tp literally halves tp time) and (50 rounds=4.5k tp) 4,500% / 100% = 45 blue bar 100%tp bars. Take TP time which is 54.75 secs x 45 blue bars = 2,463 secs / 60sec = 41min which is the 50 rounds needed for that 2% to overtake me. This number is pretty high assuming a store tp build over a build which requires 3 extra hits for(3.65+50%= 5.65) extra secs till 100%tp which is the build with a twilight belt in it's place. If you count total DA over my build then im down 5% tops since i may forget to reswap backs.
-Counting the 2% DA is even harder since anyone such as a smn with only a brutal is basically taking the times they get a proc from the 5% ear peice and cut that number in half then remove 1/5th of that number to gain the full benefits of the twilight belt in that slot. Common sense says to super stack DA to see any of that 2% seem worthwhile.
My final point is that there are many ways to min/max all fields of blu play. The only field my setup is in lacking 2mp/tic extra or 1mp/tic if i afk which i am trumphed by many here and 2%/5%da depending on swaps. M.acc will never ever ever ever ever ever be an issue and haste is capped so that leaves double attack which i'd loose 2% which i'd happily take for a faster tp gain. Gotta work on my magic set incase my friend need a spare nuker soon i guess. -
04-20-2011, 10:12 PMRaenRyongMe too, I do have an Aftermath to maintain.Quote:
I get 100tp every 25 secs ya know.
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Haste will be capped soon
There's a contradiction here, unless I'm reading incorrectly. sTP is a nice stat if you're Haste capped, but otherwise Haste will always win. As for whether it's worth using a build using Zelus Tiara etc... I doubt it. More MP Refresh gives you more MP to play with which allows you to pump out more damage/healing/utility and have more MP safety. Suggesting otherwise is like emulating one of those RDMs who were anti-Convert merits back at 75 and just sat at 600+ MP; the whole point of having these is to free up your MP so you can do more stuff - extra Refresh is exactly this.Quote:
I also don't see why you'd mention the math behind haste when we're talking about a haste gear capped situation
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04-21-2011, 12:21 AMFyreus
You know... after parsing out that regain effect on moonshade i think i may swap back around gear a bit but everything is still the same as i posted except maybe i should dig the twilight out storage and attempt to augment another store tp back and hope for a number higher than 3 or try chakrams this time.
*edit* those two lines don't contradict themselves, i've rolled and upgraded my gear today. The 2mp/tic sounds nice but that's about it. i'd be reducing a good tp setup to gain mp i may never really use. Mp hardly goes to heals and battery charge puts me right back into my normal mp range. Lost the lot on the tiara so it'll be put on hold till tomorrow after the pops get refarmed. -
04-21-2011, 12:55 AMFyreus
In abyssea the mp is a drop in the bucket and goes unnoticed tbh. Outside abyssea i don't use large mp spells unless i'm about to close quad and mb but if i wanna use mp like that i have other classes i can do that with. Blu is pretty badass but that body won't help mana abusers outside abyssea but its nice to help get you back on track if mana management is difficult.
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04-21-2011, 05:59 AMSemcoThe Head may be ugly, but its beast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwate