Samurai Archers

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Originally Posted by Hyden

Little love from the test server :o

Saotome Kabuto +2
DEF:33 HP+28 STR+5
Attack+9 Accuracy+9
Ranged Attack+15
Ranged Accuracy+15
Lv.99 SAM

I will concede the face-to-face argument, but shouldn't bow WSs from "melee" range be subject to overwhelm bonus?

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Absolutely if your gonna shoot someone in the face with a bow at melee range "overwelmed" should proc, perhaps the help text could state melee weapons only or the Dev could fix it so any ws facing the mob and in melee range processes that.

Fun fact: I swapped out my normal /rng gear the other day for every piece of store to I could manage. With a 600 delay bow (yes, I realised bad skill-up weapon choice) I was getting 33 to per hit. I'll probably figure out the math at 99 to find out what we need exactly for 34tp and a 3 hit WS build (including WS)!

Apex Arrow! Now we just need skill increase!

I was going to ask about this, we do get it?

merited WS, cap 15(category) 5 (individual)= 3maxed WS or more not maxed
sam can unlock GK,polearm,ARCHERY and sword
out doing some testing (but few ranged gear)

Info from BG:

K went to Zi'Tah to remove the fSTR2 problem. Tested on the funguars there.

151 STR 113 AGI = 2475 damage
137 STR 113 AGI = 2475 damage
124 STR 113 AGI = 2475 damage
124 STR 148 AGI = 2736 damage

I never thought I'd live to see the day SAM/RNG makes a come back... I have to change my siggy now.

Question #2:
What do the additional merits do exactly? Higher accuracy? Higher potency? I'm certain for 100 merits on a single item it should be potent.

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Originally Posted by Delvish

I never thought I'd live to see the day SAM/RNG makes a come back... I have to change my siggy now.

Question #2:
What do the additional merits do exactly? Higher accuracy? Higher potency? I'm certain for 100 merits on a single item it should be potent.

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WSmodifier boost. Its supposed to be 17% per merit, but 5/5 is working out to 100% mod. So yeah they get more potent as you add merits.


As for Apex, you'd be better off subbing WAR unless I'm missing something.

Hmm... Archery WS without /rng... That seems awkward to me.

Looks like we're going to need a new multi-hit GK!

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Originally Posted by Delvish

Hmm... Archery WS without /rng... That seems awkward to me.

Looks like we're going to need a new multi-hit GK!

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quint spear!
oa4 magian

now hope SE add a good sam bow (other than yoichi)

Might have a go at this new WS seeing as you can /WAR with it. Main reason I never did gear for Sidewinder is because of the /RNG and wanting to have better versatility by having a decent GK sub.

Explored SC possibilities. It shares the same properties as Tachi: Shoha from what I can see. Konzen-Ittai produced Fragmentation. Opening SC with Tachi: Kasha, Apex Arrow closed with light. Sad though, because the other two WS that we have available (Polearm and Sword) both produced Darkness with Konzen-Ittai.

also slightly sad that its agi mod, though probably woulda been OP with str mod considering how ranged damage calculations work still sad face. opps almost forgot to mention ignores defence with tp so might help abit with the skill difference wonder if using the moonshade (tp bonus) would be a good ws option for this.

Doing COR and SAM research (independently, but looking at Ranged attack Parallels for making up my mind to Merit AGI or INT), not actively playing those jobs (94 SCH main).
I know WAR is beastly and it's a good all around sub to SAM.
Question: Does this also open up /COR? I hear they are upping active Rolls (not sure if /COR though) and some of those have nice abilities like more Store TP, Double Attack, Ranged Acc, etc. Pirate's Earring gives +5 Ranged Attack when /COR.
Veteran SAMs, is this plausible or am I missing a core aspect of SAM subjobs that prevents this from balancing out?

I'm in theoretical /COR land right now and want to know if I'm on the right track for Merit WS and Namas Arrow:
For setup of Store TP/Haste then the swap to WS. Samurai's Roll to hit Store TP 97+ for 5 hit on 396 Delay, then swapping to Ranger's for Accuracy?

Main Quint Spear
Sub Rose Strap
Ranged Yoichinoyumi
Ammo Antlion Arrow
Head Unkai Kabuto +2 Twilight Helm
Body Unkai Domaru +2 Twilight Mail
Hands Unkai Kote +2
Legs Unkai Haidate +2 Ambusher's Hose
Feet Ace's Leggings Dilaram's Sollerets
Neck Houyi's Gorget Arctier's Torque
Waist Accursed Belt Light Belt
Ear1 Unkai Mimikazari Clearview Earring
Ear2 Brutal Earring Pirate's Earring
Ring1 Rajas Ring Arewe Ring
Ring2 Blobnag Ring
Back Misuuchi Kappa Terebellum Mantle

I'd have to look into it further, but right off the bat I can tell you oot 2-4 magian weapon due to it's higher delay for more TP per hit. will win out because of it's increased delay resulting in more TO

FYI for any SAMs needing to get their Archery skill back up to snuff (me), use a Lamian Kaman. The delay is so short that you will shoot about 3 times faster than 600 delay bows, not including /rng quick shot procs. On La-thien mobs, you should reach 365 base level fairly easily (cap is 378 at 99).

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Originally Posted by Delvish

I'd have to look into it further, but right off the bat I can tell you oot 2-4 magian weapon due to it's higher delay for more TP per hit. will win out because of it's increased delay resulting in more TO

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You can 5hit Quint and it has a better hit spread....the only reason to use 2-4 is the extra ACC but on mobs you need the ACC on you are probably using Shoha and a real GKT.

Well Apex Arrow is looking really really nice right now. If your a SAM who happens to have RNG leveled and all the toys that go with it, might want to try the built out. I used to use SAM/RNG for fights were it was lethal to get within aoe range.

You don't need to sub RNG to use Apex Arrow :x
So you can have zerk to enhance your lack of atk in archery skill.

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Originally Posted by VZX

You don't need to sub RNG to use Apex Arrow :x
So you can have zerk to enhance your lack of atk in archery skill.

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*Cough*

I know this,

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If your a SAM who happens to have RNG leveled and all the toys that go with it, might want to try the built out.

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Few SAMs are going to have the kind of +AGI and R.acc/R.atk gear around, plus merits in Archery to seriously give this a go. BUT there are some who have those things and could really flesh out a Apex Arrow spam set.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Few SAMs are going to have the kind of +AGI and R.acc/R.atk gear around, plus merits in Archery to seriously give this a go. BUT there are some who have those things and could really flesh out a Apex Arrow spam set.

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I used to have a fair set, but it is sadly dated to the 75-era when Sidewinder and RACC were prevalent. Now I need to figure out for Apex Arrow which of The two stats to aim for, RATT or all out AGI. Hit for about 1.5k consistently on low level Abyssea mobs and Lamian Kaman (poor damage). Higher bows should do considerably more.

Speaking of, outside of camping the Abyssean Amphitere
MMs, it is impossible to get a new Beursault Bow now since the Amphitere Whiskers are key components and are to weak to aggro at 99 in Xarcabard [S]. Need to find me some low level bait!

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Originally Posted by Delvish

I used to have a fair set, but it is sadly dated to the 75-era when Sidewinder and RACC were prevalent. Now I need to figure out for Apex Arrow which of The two stats to aim for, RATT or all out AGI. Hit for about 1.5k consistently on low level Abyssea mobs and Lamian Kaman (poor damage). Higher bows should do considerably more.

Speaking of, outside of camping the Abyssean Amphitere
MMs, it is impossible to get a new Beursault Bow now since the Amphitere Whiskers are key components and are to weak to aggro at 99 in Xarcabard [S]. Need to find me some low level bait!

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For Apex, I'd go full AGI.

Isn't there that bow that SAM/RNG can use that gives Namas Arrow every 13 WS? How does it's DMG/Delay stack against Beursault?

Back at 75 I had a solid SAM/RNG set. It was built arround /RA though not melee, it only got pulled out when I needed to hit and WS on things from a distance (ACP crystal comes to mind). I used Martials Bow so I could spam SW @100TP. Apex also ignores some amount of defense and accuracy isn't as much an issue as it was with SW. Together means you should be able to eat Pot Au Fua or Curry and go /WAR.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Well Apex Arrow is looking really really nice right now. If your a SAM who happens to have RNG leveled and all the toys that go with it, might want to try the built out. I used to use SAM/RNG for fights were it was lethal to get within aoe range.

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why having RNG leveled help when most of best RNG gear are not equipable by SAM and best "range" gear sam can get are not equipable or top tier RNG gear?

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Originally Posted by hiko

why having RNG leveled help when most of best RNG gear are not equipable by SAM and best "range" gear sam can get are not equipable or top tier RNG gear?

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Reference my above comment.

Your not going to find a player who plays SAM but not RNG and also has Archery merits and the +R.acc / R.atk / AGI gear their going to need. And while the best pieces are indeed RNG only, no character is created with a *perfect* gear selection. Everyone is in a constant state of progression, meaning not the best pieces and most likely to have quite a few shared pieces.

So... I'm a newer SAM looking around at my ranged options and I notice SAM have a C+ Archery and Throwing!
I see many so-so bows, but enough for options and... wait, where are the throwing weapons? I'm supposed to skill this up how? Hmmmm... So we have people wanting more Archery skill, why not take the ranks in Throwing and put them in Archery, Square? (Heck, put it in Sword, Polearm, and Dagger as well to help Procs land)

Just finished the trial set for Kawatsutsuminotachi, dmg 51; Delay 464; Occasionally attacks 2-4 times. It's like a Soboro+1 and I know a good majority of you SAMs still carry around that sword. Even on the last two-three trials, I noticed a super increase in TP gain rate (as to be expected) but this Magian GK is a must for any SAM who deals in archery.

wish nin got some option like sam has for range attacks sadly we dont.

And playing RNG/SAM instead can't be an option? I mean, why in any way SAM/RNG should beat RNG in anything that involve a bow??? RNG are already in the bothom choice of DD in most event, dunno why we should gimp more RNG by letting another job do more DMG with bow (and not mention SAM do way enough DMG with GK)...

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Originally Posted by Darwena

And playing RNG/SAM instead can't be an option? I mean, why in any way SAM/RNG should beat RNG in anything that involve a bow??? RNG are already in the bothom choice of DD in most event, dunno why we should gimp more RNG by letting another job do more DMG with bow (and not mention SAM do way enough DMG with GK)...

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RNG/SAM is a very valid option, though not one for the Samurai forums I'm afraid. There is no gimping being done by allowing SAMs to pursue our native capabilities in the bow. The difference between SAM and RNG with archery is similar to SCH and BLM with nukes. The former can never match the capabilities of the latter assuming the same quality of skill and equipment, but if the RNG sucks and the SAM is good then the SAM is going to seem superior. I don't think you need to worry about Samurai Archery becoming a mainstay to replace the Ranger. It takes a lot of work on the side (specific gear, skilling up, etc.) to become a proficient SAM/RNG. A lot more than the old hagun-groupie SAMs are going to want to do.

Maybe I wasn't clear, english isn't my main language after all, what I mean was: SAM isn't happy with all the great stuff they have with Great Katana? GK > Archery right? if you want to shoot arrows, switch to RNG, otherwise go slash that Great Katana for a maximum of DMG... You will even save gils. Sure they can go archery but it's seem to be less efficient than melee'ing. It's like NIN throwing Shuriken... yes they can, but this so less efficient than just melee mob instead...

Edit: Just my opinion, I don't have any number to prove my point.

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Originally Posted by Darwena

Maybe I wasn't clear, english isn't my main language after all, what I mean was: SAM isn't happy with all the great stuff they have with Great Katana? GK > Archery right? if you want to shoot arrows, switch to RNG, otherwise go slash that Great Katana for a maximum of DMG... You will even save gils. Sure they can go archery but it's seem to be less efficient than melee'ing. It's like NIN throwing Shuriken... yes they can, but this so less efficient than just melee mob instead...

Edit: Just my opinion, I don't have any number to prove my point.

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Ok, a very fair point, and I do acknowledge that. However, NIN was supposed to be a puller/DD and SAM was supposed to be a tank. So many things are not as intended simply because someone wanted to do something different. Besides, I don't like the min-max cookie cutter playing style. I like to gimp myself and see how well I do. e.g. COP Dynamis SCH99/RDM00. Failed miserably, but had a hell of a time doing it!

I've always enjoyed the sam/rng play style. I know it is not the most DMG efficient but ITT we are specifically talking about the SAM/RNG style.

But it doesn't matter what we try to say to cult-ninjas, they will go above and beyond to toss out a 'ninja using shuriken' insult regardless of the thread. It's like a Vana'dielian six degrees of separation.

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Originally Posted by Bulrogg

I've always enjoyed the sam/rng play style. I know it is not the most DMG efficient but ITT we are specifically talking about the SAM/RNG style.

But it doesn't matter what we try to say to cult-ninjas, they will go above and beyond to toss out a 'ninja using shuriken' insult regardless of the thread. It's like a Vana'dielian six degrees of separation.

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throwingNIN are the new mereeRDM, crying over in every other thread

:rolleyes:

Throwing ninjas have nothing to do with samurai archers. Cult-ninjas should stop trying to derail threads just to toss out an insult.

#sixdos

Didn't see this anywhere, but giving samurai bow magian trials seems like an amazing ammo slot. People would just use it to make str/attack bows or tp bonus bow for their GKT. That would be unbalanced lol.

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Didn't see this anywhere, but giving samurai bow magian trials seems like an amazing ammo slot. People would just use it to make str/attack bows or tp bonus bow for their GKT. That would be unbalanced lol.

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Ah, thank you for posting that. I need to test whether TP bonus GK affects Archery WS. The STR/Attack bow is a valid arguement and I think I addressed that much earlier on when we were discussing allowing magian bows for SAM. It does provide an incredible unbalance in game mechanics, offering a free 11 STR in a range slot. I don't think the TP bonus one would affect anything though. The way I see it, is if they allowed the Sparrow through Accipiter bows to RNG/SAM players, but Gyrfalcon RNG only, that would thoroughly eliminate SAM abuse of stat enhancing bows and focus strictly on bows that would actually be utilized. Same goes with allowing the Gymnogyps type bows, but I'm on the edge with those as I'm uncertain how they affect melee attacks.

The other part of the Accipiter bows is that either the trial or SAM's WS availability would have to be modified, as we wouldn't be able to get past the second trial

Can SAM get some new arrows?

It's kind of ridiculous that the best arrows we get are:

Antlion Arrow lvl 80
DMG: 41 Delay: 90 Ranged Attack +5

and then RNG only gets:

Ruszor Arrow lvl 89
DMG: 46 Delay: 90

AND

Gargouille Arrow lvl 97
DMG: 51 Delay: 90 Ranged Accuracy +5

I know archery isn't our best skill, but no new arrows for 19 lvls when RNG got 2 kinda sux :(

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Originally Posted by Hyden

I'm guessing this is the main reason why ToM bows aren't available to non-RNGs. But it's not like it'd be anymore overpowered than any other dual wield options. Unless dual wield jobs were allowed to use bows too i guess... Idk, i really don't see the hurt in putting SAM on ToM bows too.

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Try telling that to the devs after pups made a HUGE thread about ToM animators with some stats on it (since pup cant access ANY ranged or ammo gear without gimping their ability to control the automaton..) only for the devs to say an outright no due to "balance" issues...

Yeah, i never really understood what their thinking was on that. They could at least make the animator an "ammo" so you could swap w/o losing TP.

heres my problem, the animator is something one controls with their hands, yet it hangs on your back. Mnks have been complaining for years about some type of strap for h2h, so why not make animators a sub weapon that works with h2h. All its gonna do is give us the ability to use our pups to the fullest, and then get ranged gear.