[dev1024] New SCH Spells

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Originally Posted by Eric

I've stopped caring about people's whining that we get all the attention. As long as we get the adjustments we want/need, I'll be happy. :)

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Same.

And thanks, Camate. This is great news.

Could you revamp blood weapon since its an ability that can only be used once every two hours, and is terrible?

In the time it took to make these new spells, and balance them twice.


Jobs that desperately need an update to their 2hr i.e

DRK
RNG
THF (Doesn't dodge ranged attacks.)

Could have already happened.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Based on all of the feedback we have received, we will be making the below changes to SCH:

• Tabula Rasa
Effect duration will be changed from 90 seconds to 180 seconds.

• Embrava
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Changed to make it possible to be used on players outside of your party.

• Kaustra
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Increased damage slightly.

As you all have mentioned, since this is an ability/spell that can only be used once every two hours, we revamped it as much as possible.

The idea of the adjustments this time, including the reason for adding Embrava and Kaustra, is to increase the usage of Tabula Rasa. In the future we will be looking at adjustments other than effect duration, but consider this the first phase.


There are still a lot of things we would like to adjust, so we are placing SCH adjustments at a pretty high priority for the future as well.

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As Karbunckle posted in the THF forums, I too would recommend a restraining order because my two favorite jobs just got a whole lot nicer. Give my third job SAM a major archery revamping and... yea... lets just say my fiancee wouldn't be too pleased.

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Originally Posted by Urteil

Could you revamp blood weapon since its an ability that can only be used once every two hours, and is terrible?

In the time it took to make these new spells, and balance them twice.


Jobs that desperately need an update to their 2hr i.e

DRK
RNG
THF (Doesn't dodge ranged attacks.)

Could have already happened.

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you aware of what would happen to these mobs in dynamis if those 2hrs were changed?

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Originally Posted by Sira

you aware of what would happen to these mobs in dynamis if those 2hrs were changed?

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Absolutely nothing because DRG mobs still have the crappy summon wyvern 2hr.

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Originally Posted by Urteil

Absolutely nothing because DRG mobs still have the crappy summon wyvern 2hr.

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I agree. A simple potency boost or timer extension on the 2hrs that Urteil mentioned would always be welcomed (among other changes). However, I don't think this is the right thread for that discussion. It would probably also make more of an impact if it had it's own thread where SE could more openly see it.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Based on all of the feedback we have received, we will be making the below changes to SCH:
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Despite a few perplexities that remain I can say I'm very very very satisfied by these announced changes, at least from how they sound on paper.
Thanks for sharing Camate!

im still somewhat mildly perplexed that they mentioned how they wanted to go an alternate course for healing on sch, more towards a regen type healing, yet in order for us to have a better regen than whm (regen was sch leading spell, what happened to that) we have to use our 2hr. So if they wanted to continue on that path of regen type spells, i'd be hard pressed to see what our healing potential would be in the future.

2 hour abilities are nice and all but you can only use them once every 2 hours or so, i know you said you plan to focus more on sch than you have before, but ......yeah.

perhaps as a suggestion you could add regen to the list of spells that can be used with rapture? additionally another unrelated idea that came to mind earlier today: giving sch a trait that will give them a fast cast type trait if using spells of the same element as the weather they have up.

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Originally Posted by Urteil

Absolutely nothing because DRG mobs still have the crappy summon wyvern 2hr.

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I definitely think that changes to two hours for certain jobs could even be implemented by a job trait you get at a certain level if SE absolutely had to implement them this way. For example, THF could dodge ranged attacks and get increased magic evasion (more resist rates) while under the effects of Perfect Dodge at level 95. Or White Mage could have a 100% chance to remove Doom with Benediction at level 99. I think every job could use a boost to two hours by 99.

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Originally Posted by Sira

additionally another unrelated idea that came to mind earlier today: giving sch a trait that will give them a fast cast type trait if using spells of the same element as the weather they have up.

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Or this could be a piece of gear. A throw slot piece that gives day/weather: Fast Cast +10% and MAB+2 would be a solid piece, or if SE really loves us, when they finally give a quest to combine all the elemental obi into one, it will become a higher level item that also has fast cast for corresponding day/weather. Spells that are always affected by the weather should get an even greater bonus to the fast cast given by such an effect.

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Originally Posted by Sira

perhaps as a suggestion you could add regen to the list of spells that can be used with rapture?

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Additionally, perhaps a piece of gear that makes Rapture give an additional effect of Regen when used with cure spells?

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Originally Posted by Sira

you aware of what would happen to these mobs in dynamis if those 2hrs were changed?

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Nothing would happen. DRGs still have call wyvern as their 2hr lol

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Originally Posted by Economizer

I definitely think that changes to two hours for certain jobs could even be implemented by a job trait you get at a certain level if SE absolutely had to implement them this way. For example, THF could dodge ranged attacks and get increased magic evasion (more resist rates) while under the effects of Perfect Dodge at level 95. Or White Mage could have a 100% chance to remove Doom with Benediction at level 99. I think every job could use a boost to two hours by 99.

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I'd like to think that the development team is looking at all of the the 2-hour abilities one-by-one and updating the less useful ones, since Eagle Eye Shot, Familiar, and some of the other 2-hour abilities that were disappointing even at 75 have been mentioned.

Of course, I'm probably wrong and the development team is currently hard at work building a box fort using the surplus of cardboard that came in along with the Final Fantasy XIV team's new office chairs. This kind of saddens me because Camate and Bayonne won't get to play in the epic fort due to being in a North American office.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Or this could be a piece of gear. A throw slot piece that gives day/weather: Fast Cast +10% and MAB+2 would be a solid piece, or if SE really loves us, when they finally give a quest to combine all the elemental obi into one, it will become a higher level item that also has fast cast for corresponding day/weather. Spells that are always affected by the weather should get an even greater bonus to the fast cast given by such an effect.

Additionally, perhaps a piece of gear that makes Rapture give an additional effect of Regen when used with cure spells?

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I normally love adding stuff through equipment, like a protuberance kind of love, but Scholar already has a lot of equipment that's only useful during one job ability or spell. Eventually, I'm afraid a good Scholar will be stuck with nothing but 8 weather obis and 72 pieces of very situational equipment.

It does go with the theme of the job, though, and those pieces of equipment are always amazing in those situations. So I guess this kind of addition would have some good and some bad.

I think having the effect as part of stormsurge (when merits get updated) would be a great way to do it. That way we could also help our fellow BLMs and WHM/RDMs in nuking & healing, respectively (and it would also avoid more "omg unfair sch is OP omggg uguyzz" conversations).

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I normally love adding stuff through equipment, like a protuberance kind of love, but Scholar already has a lot of equipment that's only useful during one job ability or spell. Eventually, I'm afraid a good Scholar will be stuck with nothing but 8 weather obis and 72 pieces of very situational equipment.

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That's why I was suggesting it should have MAB +2 (so you don't have to macro into another piece during cast) if it was a throw slot item, or being the bonus of combining all the elemental obis. Basically, Scholar should get more gear that is like the Twilight Cape and less gear that is eight different pieces for each element with extra gear if you want to prioritize something like accuracy instead of attack. Actually, not just Scholar, but every job that casts magic.

I can understand having to swap between eight or nine different staffs (not seventeen however), but that's about the extend of where elemental focuses should go. Obis and straps and subligars need to be one piece per slot. Lets hope the guys in the box fort give the guys who want to merge these items together the password to get in the fort so they can implement this...

I think my preference would be to include the fastcast effect on the "super obi"(which is also a really good idea) like you mentioned, as opposed to having it on a separate piece of gear. I think it would be a nice reward for getting all 8 obis and then synergizing it.

EDIT: And again, it would let us extend these benefits to our fellow mages. (At least, if you buff other mages like you already should be doing.)

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Eventually, I'm afraid a good Scholar will be stuck with nothing but 8 weather obis and 72 pieces of very situational equipment.

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^implying this isnt already the case.

Going off of the idea of how circumstantial SCH gear can be, does anyone have sublimation idle gear with stacked HP+?

I actually had a set like that on my old character before I deleted it. It's EXTREMELY circumstantial gear since you can't cast anything that requires any major gear swaps while you're waiting for sublimation to finish, but I was able to get 400 MP sublimations out of it(as a Hume). It's mostly only useful for building up a complete charge right before a NM fight or just while you're walking to an area.

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Originally Posted by Eric

I think my preference would be to include the fastcast effect on the "super obi"(which is also a really good idea) like you mentioned, as opposed to having it on a separate piece of gear. I think it would be a nice reward for getting all 8 obis and then synergizing it.

EDIT: And again, it would let us extend these benefits to our fellow mages. (At least, if you buff other mages like you already should be doing.)

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The Stormsurge idea you mentioned earlier was a decent one. I think that SE should consider tripling (instead of just doubling) the current Stormsurge buff if they ever let Scholar get double weather spells, but I'm sure there is a lot of work involved with deciding stuff involving double weather - I'm sure I'd discussed it to death elsewhere though.

I'm not the first person to suggest a super obi, although I might be the first to suggest adding a incredibly potent fast cast buff to it. To be honest, I'll just be happy if SE makes a way to combine them, but we can always hope.

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Originally Posted by Eric

Going off of the idea of how circumstantial SCH gear can be, does anyone have sublimation idle gear with stacked HP+?

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I have a partial max HP set for White Mage, for Devotion (it also helps for the rare prefight Sublimation setup). A HP set can also help with Convert somewhat, and if you have the White Mage only Empyrean Club... Going beyond HP rings is probably a waste of space/time though, especially when you can get really nice gear like the Twilight Cape that has a decent amount of HP on it. Space is another resource in this game, unfortunately, so sometimes you have to pick and choose pieces based on room.

If i'm going to precharge my sublimation I usually just use whatever HP gear i have on me. I dont have the space to carry HP+ gear for sublimation/convert.

i do have a near full set of hp gear for sublimation (river gauntlets, jungle sash, aenotherus mantle, meridian ring and verthandi's gem being the most prominent, missing the fomor neck) i do really enjoy having over 500 mp sublimations every 2 minutes or so.

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^implying this isnt already the case.

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Was gonna say, already feels like that.

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To be honest, I'll just be happy if SE makes a way to combine them, but we can always hope.

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We can, but SE seems to have been adding more weather/elemental situational stuff so it seems unlikely. Pretty sure blm has been clamoring for a "rainbow staff" since time immemorial.

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Originally Posted by Ank

Pretty sure blm has been clamoring for a "rainbow staff" since time immemorial.

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I think there is a difference between the weather obis and the mythical rainbow staff. As per said Rainbow Staff, I think asking SE to fix the Dorje by involving the magian trials in a combined trail that you can only start with a Dorje would be a nice fix. But I think we'd benefit most from combined Obis, as this would encourage their use.

Yeah it's pretty frustrating that the biggest challenge in the game right now is managing my inventory...

With all the situational and specific gear added lately, the recent inventory control changes are less of boon and more of a requirement to remain in the bad state we were in instead of getting worse. Actually I do think it's worse now because instead of just being out of space, we get to be out of space in 10 different locations...

That said, I fully support the super obi. It would need to require the completion of all the others and an additional quest. A nice FC on it would be great, to bring SCH closer to elemental celerity and give other mages the chance to cast faster.

I love the idea of a super obi. It would be a great way to handle the inventory woes of SCHs (and BLMs as well). You also have the perk of breathing life back into some old content. The quest should be handled by the same NPC as the original obi quests and would require all 8 obis plus an additional item from an NM or something.

I like the idea of more fast cast for SCH, but I'm against it coming in the form of gear. As said, we already have a lot of gear to carry around. It would be very difficult to balance the piece so that you still wouldn't need multiple grips for different situations. As I've said before, I would prefer the boost to come in the form of an upgrade to the grimoire. I think the bonuses for Light/Dark Arts should improve as you level. I believe a post from the dev team said they agreed and would look into it.

I would keep the current bonuses as they are so that they are available via /SCH. I'd like to see a bonus of -20% spell casting time by lv99. That would still be behind BLM, RDM and WHM (with gear included). Recast time could be lowered to -12.5%.

I suppose you could make it a category 3 merit item. My only concern is that we will have to sacrifice another possible bonus in order to receive it. That is the nature of merits of course, but I do think some aid in casting speed is needed.

I'm very disappointed by the current Staves system, the Magian ones I mean. Sure they are powerful (and look good! :P) but you can't make 2 of the same element with different affinities. Say accuracy and damage. Well I suppose you could make a +3 damage and +2 accuracy, maybe, but still, do they really expect us to bring around that much gear?
8 staves for damage, 8 staves for accuracy, one for resting, one for Sskin, one for pdt, one for healing... I mean... that's way beyond.
Also it's sad that you can't get something balanced and "in between" like the old HQ staves were. They had elemental affinity 2 with everything: avatar perpetuation, elemental accuracy, elemental damage etc. Why can't you get something that's, say, 3 in everything?

I really hope there will be a way to "merge" staves into one (or at least two, light alligned elements and dark alligned elements) and it would be nice if the same could happen for Sea Gorgets (they need a revamp in damage as well! 0.2ftp modifier maybe?), belts and obis.

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Originally Posted by Harnao

This may not be considered a "bug" per sey, however it is an odd concept I noticed.

Kaustra and Embrava are level 5 spells that can only be cast while under Tabula Rasa. However, when SCH is a sub job, that spells are present in the spell list however the spells are always uncastable. As far as I know, there are no other similar situations in the game where a spell is listed and there is no way to make that spell castable.

The spell does meet all the criteria of being "allowed' to show up in the list but it seems wrong that an uncastable spell should be there.

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While not a spell, call beast is the same way on subjob. Any other job subbing beast has access to call beast, but it cannot be used, as all jug pets are BST only. So this type of thing isn't new. I don't think I'd say it's a bug.

The only other thing I can think of with a spell not being castable was before Galka Paladins got an mp boost, they had 146 mp at level 75 and couldn't cast raise without +mp. Completely different there but yeah...

Can you tell from the test server how Kaustra and Embrava are obtained? I know, "subject to change, blah blah" but currently did the spell just show up in your list, is it available from NPCs, etc.?

I'm really hoping good ol' Silke sells them in Bastok Markets [S], and that they don't make them like the SMN 2-hour avatars and require me to finish WotG missions.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

Can you tell from the test server how Kaustra and Embrava are obtained? I know, "subject to change, blah blah" but currently did the spell just show up in your list, is it available from NPCs, etc.?

I'm really hoping good ol' Silke sells them in Bastok Markets [S], and that they don't make them like the SMN 2-hour avatars and require me to finish WotG missions.

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There's a moogle who has an option to 'give you all spells/rolls/songs/etc' That's how i got it. didnt think to check if i had it before then.

We implemented the previously stated adjustments to Embrava and Kaustra on the Test Server. Check ‘em out :)

I hopped on the test server as soon as I heard about this. Tested Kaustra. I'm quite liking the enhanced duration of Tabula Rasa. I've yet to test Embrava, but I will shortly.

Pre-update, I tested with Cosmos/Minikin/Ultimate atmas, did 2861 initial damage to Licorices in Abyssea - Konschtat. I casted a few times in the 90 second window that I was able to. The damage was the same each time.
Post-update, I am now doing 4351 initial damage. Same atma, same gear. All tests were done on one target instead of multiple, so I haven't had a chance to test against multiple targets with Manifestation.

(Of course it won't beat Blizzard V (7166 damage wut?) but it's a very fun 'helix' spell that can be made AoE :p)

Personally, I'm happy with the buff to these thus far, and I'm more excited at things to possibly be on the way for Scholar... but I'd still like stuff I can use more often that is unique to SCH that's actually useful. I rarely use Adloquium or the enmity spells, but I know they've got their uses.

All I really want is for SE to find a vision for scholar. A job is more then a set of spells and abilities, it's a role. Right now scholar is missing that.

Right now every mage that isn't WHM and BLM is missing a role..aka SCH and RDM.

WHM BLM and BLU

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Originally Posted by Ahrana

All I really want is for SE to find a vision for scholar. A job is more then a set of spells and abilities, it's a role. Right now scholar is missing that.

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I'm pretty sure their vision for Scholar's role is "sporadically put large numbers in the chat log, make people who fear math complain". Which, if looked at in a totally pessimistic fashion, is totally appropriate for a Scholar.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

Can you tell from the test server how Kaustra and Embrava are obtained? I know, "subject to change, blah blah" but currently did the spell just show up in your list, is it available from NPCs, etc.?

I'm really hoping good ol' Silke sells them in Bastok Markets [S], and that they don't make them like the SMN 2-hour avatars and require me to finish WotG missions.

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Remember that one guy you got your Helix and Weather spells from? 2k says he sells the new spells now come update. Only fitting really.

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Originally Posted by Delvish

Remember that one guy you got your Helix and Weather spells from? 2k says he sells the new spells now come update. Only fitting really.

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Yeah my guess is either That Guy in Eldieme [S] or Silke in Bastok Markets [S], who has had the newer spells. I'll be kneeling down in front of one or the other Sunday night.

Hmm..thoughts on some more new spells.

1.) Magic Evasion Spell
2.) Elemental Eater spells good for one spell

A spell that absorbs Dispel. Watching Perpetuance buffs get wiped away so easily is starting to get annoying. Have it function the same way as Aquaviel so it absorbs Dispel a number of times based off Enhancing skill.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

A spell that absorbs Dispel.

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While I have doubts that SE will make a spell that absorbs Dispel (especially multi-effect variants) currently you can do your best to maximize the number of buffs on the tank or yourself to prevent Dispel from taking out anything useful.

Even garbage buffs like barstatus spells from White Mage or the enmity spell from Scholar start to become very useful in these situations. Definitely helpful for the time being, or at least until there is a buff like that.

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Watching Perpetuance buffs get wiped away so easily

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Yeah that annoys me to, would be nice to have some kind of dispel resistance or something.

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Originally Posted by Ank

Yeah that annoys me to, would be nice to have some kind of dispel resistance or something.

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They'll never give a Dispel Resistance spell, all they'd give at most is Bardarkra to WHM to grant a chance to resist dark based Dispel, and Barlightra for the light sided ones.