So...Spontaneity...

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Originally Posted by Supersun

I'm not sure where I think Spontaneity's recast should be. I agree that 10 minutes is too long even with the ability to cast it on other people mainly because I can't really think of any spell that if it were instant cast on a semi-frequent basis would break the game.

I mean there's a few things that can justify Manawell being on a 10 min timer but is there anything similar for Spontaneity?

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In my opinion they should both be 3 minutes recast time, it'd break nothing doing it at that time and they'd certainly be used more often than I think they will be at 10 minutes recast. SAM's self-skillchain ability is on 3 minutes and that's more overpowered than these two.

The only thing I can think of is Imapct being free on a 10 min timer would make voidwatch SO Much easier lol

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Originally Posted by Darkwizardzin

...Idk you guys might be over exaggerating. I think the reason SE made it a 10 minute timer was because you can give it to other people in your party... and it would kindof chipin your 2hr if you had instant cast every 3 minutes. I don't think SE wants you guys to be able to cast instantly very often (they think that's what fast cast is for).

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Perhaps, but what would it break? If anything it would mostly be used to help our buff cycle that much further. BLMs already have Elemental Celerity to deal with their long cast times, plus they can just Alternate between Thunder, Fire and Blizzard nukes if they're really that hard-pressed to pile on one nuke after another. Not to mention, there would be some communication issues as is putting on Spontanteity on a party member for a spell you don't know is about to be cast. Depending on the spell in question, it could be good or bad. "wtf why didn't you do Spontaniety on me for my important spells!?!? Now my very minor spell recast is 0," or some other situation where a spell being used with Spontaniety could be considered wasted.

And if we needed instant cast on the fly, that's what Chainspell is there for, yeah? I wouldn't have any qualms making the recast set to 2-3 minutes for the sole fact it would help the RDM itself out for what it needs to do to free up more casting/moving time.

SE, can we get an answer as to why this Job Ability isn't lowered to a reasonable recharge timer? :\

I doubt they would go for 2-3 minute recast but even being castable on others 10 minute recast is way too long, I fail to see how gamebreaking it is to half the recast since you would need perfect timing just to get it to be useful on others in the first place due to what you already said. Even if you give it to others it could be wasted if the situation changes. I don't think Plds and Nins would complain much about having it used on them though.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

I doubt they would go for 2-3 minute recast but even being castable on others 10 minute recast is way too long, I fail to see how gamebreaking it is to half the recast since you would need perfect timing just to get it to be useful on others in the first place due to what you already said. Even if you give it to others it could be wasted if the situation changes. I don't think Plds and Nins would complain much about having it used on them though.

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2-3 minutes is the least it should be realistically it's not that impressive of a JA to warrant 5+ minutes recast.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

2-3 minutes is the least it should be realistically it's not that impressive of a JA to warrant 5+ minutes recast.

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I would settle for 3 minutes if 2 minutes isn't an option.

If the recast time of this spell were to be 3 mins or less then any buff spell not meant to be up full time such as Klimaform, Reprisal, Dread Spikes, Migawari: Ichi, ect... could easily be kept up all the time.

Not that this by itself would break the game or anything, but this in conjuction with other things added in the future, either to Red Mage itself or other non-full time buffs added to other jobs, could easily push the game into a position SE is uncomftorable with.

Regardless though, 10 mins is way too long for this JA. Even at 5 mins I can't think of any one single spell that this JA would break. I can't even think of any future spell realistically being made that this JA would break.

Honestly though, I'd almost prefer that this JA would be single target only and reduced to 3 mins as opposed to able to be cast on others and reduced to 5 mins. I mean the number of times that someone else in the party is going to need this JA are so slim that if the only thing that's added by allowing this JA, which Rdms are going to be using on themselves 99% of the time anyway, to remain useable on others is nearly doubling the recast on it then I'd rather it be changed.

Either way, a 10 minute recast is far too long, Instant casting any one spell and reducing it's recast to 0 isn't as broken as it's being made out to be.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

If the recast time of this spell were to be 3 mins or less then any buff spell not meant to be up full time such as Klimaform, Reprisal, Dread Spikes, Migawari: Ichi, ect... could easily be kept up all the time.

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This is what I was thinking, and I look at it as both the reason SE might be conservative on the recast, and also the exact reason I'd want it to be 2-3 minutes. I can't think of anything super great and broken about full timing Klimaform, Reprisal, etc., but as far as the full content of announced RDM updates go I can't see anything else SE has provided that would push the job into a more party desirable direction.

I know there was some indication that the manifesto claim of transforming others into demi-gods was a mistranslation, and that it really was supposed to mean transforming the RDM. But if they actually do intend this role for RDM, adding ways for RDM to empower other jobs' self-buffs would certainly be a much more interesting way to buff other players than simply adding more single-target cycle buffs, which would end my RDM partying days for good.

Currently on a ten minute timer, I plan to use it just before, um, Teleport-Vahzl.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

I know there was some indication that the manifesto claim of transforming others into demi-gods was a mistranslation, and that it really was supposed to mean transforming the RDM. But if they actually do intend this role for RDM, adding ways for RDM to empower other jobs' self-buffs would certainly be a much more interesting way to buff other players than simply adding more single-target cycle buffs, which would end my RDM partying days for good.

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Now this is exactly the issue in mind. How can we be able to help themselves be more enhanced if we can only use this job ability every 10 minutes? At a 10 minute recharge timer, it's just a toy- no real desired use but a situational option best used for a "spur of the moment." A 3-minute recast would put some potential toward our enhancing role that much further on a wider scale, and not just for the RDM.

Square, we need you guys to focus RDM on helping them provide a more desired party role, because at the current stage, there is little desire for us. Put a Red Mage in a spot in abyssea and outside abyssea areas and tell yourselves: "Why do we want this job here? What can this job do that others can't? Is having a Red Mage here doing too little or too much in this situation? If too little, what do we need to do to let players be able to enjoy having this job in the group? If it does too much to the point that it's not necessary to have this job here, which option should this job have that others don't to make this job worthwhile to have around?"

If this is already the process of what SE does to decide balance...well, I think we should vote for the option to demonstrate issues to SE's developers in-game on their servers.

I haven't gotten to play with spontaneity yet, however, I feel it's very limited in applications. Time spent using the JA could be time used casting the spell. Barring instant impact, I'd much rather see something along the lines of composure. A Job Ability that occasionally quickens spell casting but imposes penalties to melee. have the 2 abilities share a timer and also can make them be mutually exclusive. similar to yonin/inin, Seigan/Hasso and afflatus solace/afflatus misery. I feel it would have the same flavor and similar effect. This would also be a strategic enhancement to the class with balancing between the two modes of operation.

Never ever ever ever random Quick cast JA, I'd rather have this on a 10 minute timer than dealing with random quick casts.

Honestly, I don't see the big deal about random quick cast. If you are trying to utsusemi tank that's one thing, just turn it off. Instant casting buff spells enfeebles or cure spells isn't going to do anything but help you.

No, they're either going to hurt me or be ultimately superfluous as my spell goes off in the wrong gear and I either have to recast the spell meaning the quick cast was a waste of time, or I'm stuck with a gimped effect if it was a debuff. I already have that problem with Apoc atma.

I've never had a problem casting in the wrong gear when spells go off :/

You don't use fast cast gear then if you're not seeing a problem when using apoc atma.

Nothing more than AF hat and af2 body. However, if you're referring to spell cast, I don't use that.

You would still cast spells in AF hat and AF2 body when quick cast goes off. That is a problem and one I don't want. I shouldn't have to explain why this is bad.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Never ever ever ever random Quick cast JA, I'd rather have this on a 10 minute timer than dealing with random quick casts.

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I cannot overstate my agreement with this sentiment. Random quick cast is a terrible terrible thing for anyone who actually makes use of fast cast gear in any capacity(ie, any Red Mage worth their salt).

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

I cannot overstate my agreement with this sentiment. Random quick cast is a terrible terrible thing for anyone who actually makes use of fast cast gear in any capacity(ie, any Red Mage worth their salt).

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I agree completely. I'd quit the job forever, no joke, if I had to live with the annoyance of Apoc atma on RDM forever. You either end up with gimped spell results, or give up FC gear in pre-cast, neither of which is acceptable.

The AF3 set bonus on SCH works out OK because I can idle in only one piece, making it impossible for it to proc unless I pre-equip multiple pieces, which I do in non-FC slots only for Reraise, Raise, Teleports, and buffs that aren't affected by gear. If quick magic were implemented randomly on RDM there would HAVE to be a way to control it like this.

Apoc isn't meant to be used on mages :p

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Apoc isn't meant to be used on mages :p

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Erm.... auto-reraise is reason enough to use it, especially for a job that doesn't have reraise natively.

Also as a side note, I've used it on WHM, why you ask? Simple. If I grab hate randomly such as a hate-reset mob I'll reraise and normally need to cure again which I'll do. If I then die again before getting reraise up, I can't be raised so Apoc helps alot.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Apoc isn't meant to be used on mages :p

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Really should learn the difference between meant and should.

Because SE adding an instant cast chance oh Apoc, which isn't "meant" for mages, makes a lot of sense.

...Not that Shield Mastery on Rdm, Tactical Parry on Drk, Fencer on Brd makes a lot of sense either.