Spoilers*Test Server

Seriously? You finally add something that makes BLU a relevant source of damage on mobs above VT and you nerf it? Thanks SE.

Yeah boo on that Heavy Strike nerf, I hate it when spells miss. especially since hardly any weaponskills completely miss nowadays.

My sample size is small I realize, but it seemed pretty obvious from my testing that the accuracy cap was NOT changed whatsoever (for heavy strike). I performed 50 casts on TW mobs and the results were exactly as expected with a 95% accuracy cap. I missed 5 times, and hit 45. I'd be happy to add more data later, but I think it's pretty obvious that even if the accuracy cap was lowered, the difference is not noticeable.

Basically, this means you can always just eat sushi (or pizza) and spam heavy strike like before. I wouldn't freak out about the change much. As someone already noted, slug shot suffers from an extreme acc penalty, but it's still possible to achieve a 95% hit rate on NMs and such. I doubt heavy strike suffers from the same acc penalty as slug shot, but even if it does, it's nothing to worry about.

Edit: oops yeah, 10%. Hmm, maybe they did lower it 5%. I heard someone else do the same test and got 6 misses out of 50. Still 90% accuracy is not bad.

Yeah premature panic on my part, the ACC doesn't seem horrible (DON'T YOU NERF IT AGAIN PLEASE). ...but as an observation I've made a couple of times already, Dark Orb still costs 153 MP so... could be we haven't seen the changes yet.

Yeah a nice kick in the nuts, however the fact we have an explanation and understanding vs. a ninja nerf, I can live with and accept it. Compared to other jobs QQ I still think we have it good.

Now let's unnerf Barrier Tusk....

While you're adjusting Dark Orb, could you give it or Everyone's Grudge a different effect or added effect or something? Those two spells are virtually identical as they stand now.

Sudden lunge alone is reason enough to bring BLU to any event imo.

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Originally Posted by Mefuki

While you're adjusting Dark Orb, could you give it or Everyone's Grudge a different effect or added effect or something? Those two spells are virtually identical as they stand now.

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Perhaps, SE can take it out completely and give us a less redundant spell like Bloody Claws or a different elemental nuke.

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Originally Posted by Defiledsickness

Can we put all info found in the test server here? this will prevent those who want to discuss blu mage stuff from reading spoilers and allow the devs to see specific blu problems/testing etc. also its a lot easier to find out new stuff when i cant get on the game ^^

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Um you do know there is already a big thread on this.... Was even listed on the hot topics for a while too lol
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-on-BLU-spells

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Originally Posted by Helel

My sample size is small I realize, but it seemed pretty obvious from my testing that the accuracy cap was NOT changed whatsoever (for heavy strike). I performed 50 casts on TW mobs and the results were exactly as expected with a 95% accuracy cap. I missed 5 times, and hit 45. I'd be happy to add more data later, but I think it's pretty obvious that even if the accuracy cap was lowered, the difference is not noticeable.

Basically, this means you can always just eat sushi (or pizza) and spam heavy strike like before. I wouldn't freak out about the change much. As someone already noted, slug shot suffers from an extreme acc penalty, but it's still possible to achieve a 95% hit rate on NMs and such. I doubt heavy strike suffers from the same acc penalty as slug shot, but even if it does, it's nothing to worry about.

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Just as a note, 5/50 is not 95%.
Edit: actually I should say 45/50 is not 95%.

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Originally Posted by Mefuki

While you're adjusting Dark Orb, could you give it or Everyone's Grudge a different effect or added effect or something? Those two spells are virtually identical as they stand now.

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I'll take a Darkness damage nuke.

Dark Knight, yes please.

I can live with less Acc on Heavy Strike, since it still should be able to do good damage to HNMs and high Def and high-level mobs. It just means that I have to start buying sushi again.

I'm not happy, but if that's the only nerf it gets then I'll take it.

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Originally Posted by Sekundes

Just as a note, 5/50 is not 95%.
Edit: actually I should say 45/50 is not 95%.

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45/50 doesn't exclude 95% accuracy from the CI though either.

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Originally Posted by Foldypaws

45/50 doesn't exclude 95% accuracy from the CI though either.

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Doesn't get my hopes up either.

Fixed my post, but either way, missing 5 hits out of 50 with capped accuracy is hardly something to complain about with the spell's mp cost and low recast time. I saw someone do a similar test and they missed 6 out of 50. The way I see it, BLU is already a solid DD, so heavy strike just provides an opportunity to perform even better.

I don't understand the Heavy Strike nerf at all. It's probably largely irrelevant outside of high-level NMs, but that's a situation we have had difficulty finding a niche in for years. Macc issues with debuffs (especially additional effects on physical spells that are further hampered by the chance to miss), low physical spell attack, and magical spells heavily dependent on the target mob's base stats are all ill suited to such monsters. Now we get a spell with 100% critrate, a wonderful property when fighting high-level content, and it's penalized in other areas. Doesn't make any sense at all.

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Originally Posted by Nightfyre

I don't understand the Heavy Strike nerf at all. It's probably largely irrelevant outside of high-level NMs, but that's a situation we have had difficulty finding a niche in for years. Macc issues with debuffs (especially additional effects on physical spells that are further hampered by the chance to miss), low physical spell attack, and magical spells heavily dependent on the target mob's base stats are all ill suited to such monsters. Now we get a spell with 100% critrate, a wonderful property when fighting high-level content, and it's penalized in other areas. Doesn't make any sense at all.

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Completely agree. I think all those issues should be addressed. Not expecting to be godlike in all areas, but at least if you're going to give us a variety of tools, make them practical and applicable to those situations.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Based on all of the feedback we have received, we will be making the below changes to SCH:

• Tabula Rasa
Effect duration will be changed from 90 seconds to 180 seconds.

• Embrava
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Changed to make it possible to be used on players outside of your party.

• Kaustra
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Increased damage slightly.

As you all have mentioned, since this is an ability/spell that can only be used once every two hours, we revamped it as much as possible.

The idea of the adjustments this time, including the reason for adding Embrava and Kaustra, is to increase the usage of Tabula Rasa. In the future we will be looking at adjustments other than effect duration, but consider this the first phase.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Morning! Sorry to make you all wait at the edges of your seats for what has been posted about Bully. Hope you all had a good labor day weekend.

Last week we added an effect to Bully that would make it easier to increase the effect of Treasure Hunter.

Based on feedback we received about this, we decided to go a different route and add an effect we felt would make you all a bit happier.

The changes to the effects are described below:

•Bully (THF lvl.93 Recast time: 3 minutes Effect Duration: 30 seconds)
Intimidates target
While under its effect: Possible to use Sneak Attack when not behind an enemy.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Since Comet is a brand-new spell as well as a dark elemental spell, we decided to increase the damage and magical accuracy a little bit.

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These are some nice adjustments and all done in the last 2 days. At least we know SE is listening to player feedback.

So SE.......about Barrier Tusk.

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Originally Posted by Nightfyre

I don't understand the Heavy Strike nerf at all. It's probably largely irrelevant outside of high-level NMs, but that's a situation we have had difficulty finding a niche in for years. Macc issues with debuffs (especially additional effects on physical spells that are further hampered by the chance to miss), low physical spell attack, and magical spells heavily dependent on the target mob's base stats are all ill suited to such monsters. Now we get a spell with 100% critrate, a wonderful property when fighting high-level content, and it's penalized in other areas. Doesn't make any sense at all.

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Because Heavy Strike has stats of

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Heavy Strike: 92BLU STR+2 2 set points 32MP "Damage varies with TP" 2 points

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2 set points and 32MP, and your wanting it to be your best damage spell? It already does more damage then spells that are twice as expensive and have higher set point costs. There has to be a down side somewhere (high MP cost, longer cast time, high set point cost, or low accuracy).

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Originally Posted by saevel

2 set points and 32MP, and your wanting it to be your best damage spell? It already does more damage then spells that are twice as expensive and have higher set point costs. There has to be a down side somewhere (high MP cost, longer cast time, high set point cost, or low accuracy).

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Personally, I would be a lot happier if all aspects of Heavy Strike, including MP cost, were increased to normal levels, with the automatic critical aspect left intact. This would make Heavy Strike a great spell for anything that has more defense than a 95 year old cancer sufferer waiting out his last two days under Hospice care. Reduced accuracy was a lame draw-back to pick for a spell which is best on really hard monsters.

Well, unless this spell just sets a precedent for the unique qualities that single-hit spells will possess for here onward. In that case, awesome work development bros. Keep them coming. Me gusta. Feels good man. Etc.

I could understand them making it a 90+MP spell with 4 set points, then it's just the natural upgrade from VC / BT type spells.

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Originally Posted by saevel

2 set points and 32MP, and your wanting it to be your best damage spell?

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No. I want it to be an efficient spell in a specific niche where we are largely lacking in utility. It's not nearly as good as you're making it out to be on lesser mobs.

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Originally Posted by Nightfyre

No. I want it to be an efficient spell in a specific niche where we are largely lacking in utility. It's not nearly as good as you're making it out to be on lesser mobs.

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Umm the SS's of 6K aren't "as good" huh?

Its 32MP and 2 set points, and you want it to beat out GR/BT/VC/QC and so forth? Cause that's all that your saying.

Not everyone has a place in every type of content.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Umm the SS's of 6K aren't "as good" huh?

Its 32MP and 2 set points, and you want it to beat out GR/BT/VC/QC and so forth? Cause that's all that your saying.

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Those 6ks are with every possible buff/JA that BLU has, numbers that can already be reached with Sneak Attack if you really cared to replicate them. Doing a 6k Heavy Strike on an Easy prey clionid in abyssea is a very far cry from doing consistent and worthwhile damage on a notorious monster that actually matters.

The people on these boards that have absolutely no idea how BLU works and go around spouting how amazing and powerful it is never fail to amaze me. Idiots, the lot.

Do go try any spell that Blue Mage currently has access to on any monster that checks above VT, especially higher level NMs. You'll be lucky to hit over 500.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Not everyone has a place in every type of content.

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This is the stupidest argument I've ever read, and that's saying a lot after considering gems like Rosina. You're justifying a poor form of game design, by no means should it be that anyone should ever have to sit out or not be included in something because of their poorly implemented job mechanics or poorly implemented battle systems.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Not everyone has a place in every type of content.

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I agree that it's totally okay for some jobs to be stronger or weaker in certain content, but Blue Mage and Voidwatch are currently mix like cat poop and a nice Cuban sandwich. Physical spells performing poorly on harder stuff is to be expected, but the way the proc system operates currently is awful for anyone playing Blue Mage during the event.

This could change a bit, since apparently the hints for procs on the test server are more detailed, but right now the proc system is awful for Blue Mage (and Summoner to a lesser extent) by design. Not awful by way of exclusion, either. Awful by way of inclusion.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Umm the SS's of 6K aren't "as good" huh?

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Ah yes, Abyssea... the one place where this spell is useful, because critical damage is inflated beyond all reason there. The problem is, by that logic it's a new spell for old content. If SE had released a retooled, slightly weaker/more expensive version of this spell in the Scars version update I doubt anyone would have complained, but Abyssea is not the focus of the game anymore.

Outside Abyssea, an older spell called Delta Thrust is far superior to Heavy Strike when fighting lower level/def mobs. It's slightly cheaper, it does about the same damage as Heavy Strike in these relatively low-def situations, and it has half the recast. The only reason you'd use Heavy Strike at all in this situation is because you'll already have it set for DA trait and can thus sneak in an extra Delta Thrust equivalent every ~30 seconds. The acc nerf will not have much impact here, and the heavy duty spells are still superior for per-cast damage if you're working with a strong refresh rate.

For higher level NMs, I've found myself turning to an old mainstay. Regurgitation is as efficient as ever, putting out ~500 damage per cast on Voidwatch NMs. Furthermore, I'm completely safe while doing this because I will never take hate and I will never be in range of any avoidable AoE. Heavy Strike, as you saw, is doing less than that on a 90 cap NM at 95, meaning it will perform worse vs 95 cap NMs whereas I'm likely to see the same results that I currently do with Regurgitation at 90 cap vs anything at 95 cap that doesn't resist water damage or has innate MDT. Regurgitation's recast is also lower.

So what I see here is a new spell with the potential to fill a niche - efficient physical spell vs high-level NMs - and it's been nerfed into the ground for those NMs because of how dire the need for acc is in that situation even without a penalty. What we have now is a new spell for old content instead of a new spell that will lead the way into new content... and really, why shouldn't we get new and effective spells? There will be more spells at 99, and some of them may replace old mainstays. I'm okay with that. But not once in this entire discussion, despite your repeated asking, have I sought for Heavy Strike to replace these old physical spells. I've sought for it to fill a niche they never had a place in to begin with.

You guys are disagreeing with Daniel_Hatcher, but what he's saying is true.

It's not neccesarily how it SHOULD be, but it is how it is.

A large part of it isn't even SE's fault. It's ours. We're always trying to be better and more efficient at what we're doing and critically analyse every last detail in this game to the point of arguement. Or we read other peoples testimonies, and just take the lazy route and copy it.

LV75 Merit Parties - No Room for Black Mages.
Pre-Easy Mode Sky - SAM SAM SAM SAM
Abyssea - Boy, sure is a long time since I've seen a Dragoon.

The only thing with Voidwatch is in the past I've always managed to find a way into completing most content with just BLU. However, it doesn't sound likely with VW.

Which tbh I'm not even sure I'm too bothered by it. I just hope upgrading Almace doesn't have to lead me towards it.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

Those 6ks are with every possible buff/JA that BLU has, numbers that can already be reached with Sneak Attack if you really cared to replicate them. Doing a 6k Heavy Strike on an Easy prey clionid in abyssea is a very far cry from doing consistent and worthwhile damage on a notorious monster that actually matters.

The people on these boards that have absolutely no idea how BLU works and go around spouting how amazing and powerful it is never fail to amaze me. Idiots, the lot.

Do go try any spell that Blue Mage currently has access to on any monster that checks above VT, especially higher level NMs. You'll be lucky to hit over 500.

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Your either using hyperbole, or you really REALLY suck. I'm betting the former.

On IT+ I can get 800~1K without using JA's on VC, Q.Cont and GR, although GR varies between 500 and 1200 while QC goes between 700~1500 depending on how many hits land. Diss still dish's out 500~1K damage depending on target.

So yeah your just crying at this point in time that your super awesome spell was given a acc reduction to balance it out, not even a damage reduction just an accuracy reduction. Something you can fix with either sushi or /THF.

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Your either using hyperbole, or you really REALLY suck. I'm betting the former.

On IT+ I can get 800~1K without using JA's on VC, Q.Cont and GR, although GR varies between 500 and 1200 while QC goes between 700~1500 depending on how many hits land. Diss still dish's out 500~1K damage depending on target.

So yeah your just crying at this point in time that your super awesome spell was given a acc reduction to balance it out, not even a damage reduction just an accuracy reduction. Something you can fix with either sushi or /THF.

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Is that within Abyssea or outside?

Either way, you're comparing High-Level NMs to Incredibly-Tough monsters.

Or End Game to a Merit Party.

...I don't get it.

Also I'd like to add that your Vertical Cleave damage is outrageously wrong.

Assuming the monster is level 97, which it would be higher if talking about a VWNM (which we are) and has 100 VIT (reasonable) and 400 DEF, you have 170ish STR, max vertical cleave is 631 damage, not 800-1000.

Even more reasonable for a VWNM: lv110, 460DEF, 100VIT, you with 170 STR, max V.cleave would be 297. Goblin Rush is 301, QC 470.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

This is the stupidest argument I've ever read, and that's saying a lot after considering gems like Rosina. You're justifying a poor form of game design, by no means should it be that anyone should ever have to sit out or not be included in something because of their poorly implemented job mechanics or poorly implemented battle systems.

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What BLU is suffering in Voidwatch has existed in most content for jobs such as PUP, DRK, PLD and so on.

Of course it's poor design, I don't deny that not even a little, but this isn't something exclusive to BLU.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

What BLU is suffering in Voidwatch has existed in most content for jobs such as PUP, DRK, PLD and so on.

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That does not make it acceptable, merely the newest symptom of an ongoing problem.

I'm certainly not saying it's exclusive to BLU, but that does not excuse SE for not fixing the issue. They need to start looking at the problems that we're telling them to fix rather than creating useless JAs and spells that no one wants.

It's true it does need to be addressed.

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Originally Posted by Nightfyre

So what I see here is a new spell with the potential to fill a niche - efficient physical spell vs high-level NMs - and it's been nerfed into the ground for those NMs because of how dire the need for acc is in that situation even without a penalty. What we have now is a new spell for old content instead of a new spell that will lead the way into new content... and really, why shouldn't we get new and effective spells? There will be more spells at 99, and some of them may replace old mainstays. I'm okay with that. But not once in this entire discussion, despite your repeated asking, have I sought for Heavy Strike to replace these old physical spells. I've sought for it to fill a niche they never had a place in to begin with.

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Exactly. This is a design phliosophy that I adhere to in regards to Blue Mage and I'd hope the develepers would have the same one. There's no point in wasting time adding redundant (Dark Orb), penelty-heavy (Barrier Tusk, Mortal Ray) and downright useless spells due to lack of a niche to fill (post acc mod Heavy Strike).

The central points when designing these spells should be: Where would this spell be used? Does the mp cost/casting time/recast time etc warrant their use? Keeping in mind that Blue Mage is a hybrid job and can do many things but cannot fufill all the roles at one time, what spells can we add that are still lacking from it's repertoire, things that need to be added to round out their various roles.

It's like Nightfyre said, when going after lower level/defense monsters, most just use Delta Thrust. In fact, we have a nice set of spells to use on these kinds of monsters. That's not the problem. That aspect of our job is fine. But, we still have niches that need filling. What purpose does it serve to add yet another good on lower level/defense spell but bad on high level NM's? Why would I even bother with Heavy Strike, acc penelty and all, on these weaker monsters when I already have spells that fill that role?

Heavy Strike has a chance to fill in a missing space in one of our roles and all of our spells should follow suit. They need reasons to be used and SE can make it happen if they're clever about their effects, gives them reasonable opportunity costs and allows them to fill niches that have been empty for a long time.

So uh, what am I looking forward to this update?
- Thunderbolt I hear is crap
- Hardenshell is good, but only for 1or3min/5?
- Barrier Tusk stinks
- Heavy Strike gimped
- Dark Orb? Maybe
- Sudden Lunge I get mixed reviews on; the cast+recast time stinks, but the duration rocks
- White Wind I hear is ok, but it's expensive for outside fights
- Ray is crap
- Water bomb looks like the new Enmity generating Regurgitation? Not much on this.

This is a stupid and pointless and probably already answered question in addition to deviating from the current line of discussion, but gear that enhances breath spells has no effect on White Wind, right?

That sounds like a very accurate description of Water Bomb given what I remember of the modifiers while high on painkillers at 5 AM, Yugl.

As for Dark Orb, I am excited about finally having two strong spells of the same element (Everyone's Grudge, Dark Orb) for nuking in Abyssea. Not that I or anyone else does that particularly often anymore, but the animations look neat and I like to justify the horrific amount of inventory space that a nuking set takes up by using mine sometimes.