Salvage Gear Enhancements

Morrigan's 2.0 better be beastly and scaled appropriately for lvl 99.

The gear is gonna be on par with nyzul, probably better

the gear will be hard to obtain.

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Originally Posted by Tunasushi

The gear is gonna be on par with nyzul,

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After what happened to the (now more or less outdated) Goliard set, this is precisely what I'm worried about.

Greetings!

Similar to how we added jobs that previously could not wear Homam/Nashira to the new Murzim and Shedir equipment available via the new higher-tier Limbus areas, the development team is planning to add dancer, scholar, and other jobs to the new Salvage equipment, but not to the currently existing Salvage gear.

In regards to reducing the number of required players for entry, I believe a similar response was made in the past about assault, but we do not have any plans of lowering the requirement due to concerns that instances will be filled faster causing congestion.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

Similar to how we added jobs that previously could not wear Homam/Nashira to the new Murzim and Shedir equipment available via the new higher-tier Limbus areas, the development team is planning to add dancer, scholar, and other jobs to the new Salvage equipment, but not to the currently existing Salvage gear.

In regards to reducing the number of required players for entry, I believe a similar response was made in the past about assault, but we do not have any plans of lowering the requirement due to concerns that instances will be filled faster causing congestion.

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Yeah, all that congestion in neo-nyzul isle was crrrrrazzzy!

Oh... wait...

Ha Ha Ha Ha...... sarcasm!!!

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to reducing the number of required players for entry, I believe a similar response was made in the past about assault, but we do not have any plans of lowering the requirement due to concerns that instances will be filled faster causing congestion.

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Even though I think many players will hate it I think it's fine to keep it 6 man minimum. It's infinitely better that random luck floors.

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to reducing the number of required players for entry, I believe a similar response was made in the past about assault, but we do not have any plans of lowering the requirement due to concerns that instances will be filled faster causing congestion.

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If I was afraid something bad will happen, I wouldn't leave my bed, ever. How about giving players this option and checking IF it causes significant congestion? Limbus is a great example of that. Development team was fine with solo BSTs, NINs, BLUs, DNCs, PUPs, BLMs locking out zones for up to an hour for something like 2 years by now. Did the world come to an end?
Also, as FrankReynolds mentioned, Development Team's fear of this change might have as much ground as fear for Nyzul Isle Uncharted congestion.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Even though I think many players will hate it I think it's fine to keep it 6 man minimum. It's infinitely better that random luck floors.

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http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Salvage
Required: Job Level 65, Treasures of Aht Urhgan Mission 17 Complete, Remnants Permit
Party Size: 3-18 Members
Duration: 100 Minutes (1 Hour, 40 Minutes)

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to reducing the number of required players for entry, I believe a similar response was made in the past about assault, but we do not have any plans of lowering the requirement due to concerns that instances will be filled faster causing congestion.

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This reminds me of the time I filled a neti pot with vodka in an over-aggressive attempt to prevent nasal congestion.

Okay . . . uh . . . limbus zones are not even pseudo-instanced and you can enter with one person. Please explain your reasoning here with salvage, with multiple instances of the same zone.

solo assault would be fantastic. i sincerely hope they re-think that decision.

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Originally Posted by Twille

solo assault would be fantastic. i sincerely hope they re-think that decision.

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Same here, you aren't always able to find another two people sometimes to do Assualt/Salvage, well in my case anyway, considering most NA players are asleep when i log on.

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Originally Posted by Helel

Okay . . . uh . . . limbus zones are not even pseudo-instanced and you can enter with one person. Please explain your reasoning here with salvage, with multiple instances of the same zone.

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I don't even care for Salvage, but i think the quoted question is a valid one.

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Originally Posted by Spiritreaver

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Originally Posted by Helel

Okay . . . uh . . . limbus zones are not even pseudo-instanced and you can enter with one person. Please explain your reasoning here with salvage, with multiple instances of the same zone.

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I don't even care for Salvage, but i think the quoted question is a valid one.

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Also, as many of you may remember when they added Neo-Nyzul, we had some forced 15-30 minute wait period between runs because they thought there'd be too much congestion, and then later removed it because it never happened. So if they can add features to fight congestion and later remove them because the congestion never took place... Why can't they remove the 3 person limitation, and re-implement it if the congestion really does take place? Let's not forget that there's also 4 Salvage zones in comparison to one zone for Nyzul, which helps spread people out a bit more.

I wanna say to the devs that even if they do remove the limit (As they should) and they get congestion, they should wait a month or two before deciding to do something about it because it's obviously expected that the event will die down in time.

And besides, aren't assault tags something that fight congestion too? And you can only do Salvage once a day? And there's fact that you can't do both Salvage and Neo-Nyzul (Since you don't get Assault points) that also spreads people out too. The devs are seriously overestimating things here...

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to reducing the number of required players for entry, I believe a similar response was made in the past about assault, but we do not have any plans of lowering the requirement due to concerns that instances will be filled faster causing congestion.

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So, no Neo-Dynamis makeover for Salvage? Why do we have to reserve the zones anyway? The revamp required to make Dynamis non-reservable was exponentially more complicated than making the Salvage zones into more "normal" areas would be. Just make monsters respawn in 5 minutes, modify progression/NM spawning a little, and voila. Salvage monsters are already arranged in EXP-camp style groups, unlike in Dynamis.

And unless somehow Salvage becomes the new Abyssea or Voidwatch, or at least the new Dynamis, this update will probably increase Alexandrite prices again because it's still too ****ing inaccessible, and the people doing it will cash in on the fact that yet another possible ray of hope for alexandrite has proven false. Anyone waiting for the Salvage revamp will be screwed and there'll be nothing to hold out for, and prices will soar again.

Limbus like? So that means we'll receive slightly updated version of the current gear sets (which will be equippable by the same jobs) and 5 new sets with completely different stats and equippable by new jobs as well.
I wonder why bother with the second set.

If it were me I would have just increased the stats of the old sets and maybe added something more, and made the set effect work like the ones we've seen the last years (so incresed set bonus potency the more set pieces you have).
I see no reason not to include the new jobs in the lv99 updated versions, I still don't understand why they did that with Limbus gear.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I just hope the new Salvage is done enough to make Alex prices more reasonable with the high number needed so that they actually exist.

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You must be new to the game. Demand is going to increase and price will increase.

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Originally Posted by Edyth

So, no Neo-Dynamis makeover for Salvage? Why do we have to reserve the zones anyway? The revamp required to make Dynamis non-reservable was exponentially more complicated than making the Salvage zones into more "normal" areas would be. Just make monsters respawn in 5 minutes, modify progression/NM spawning a little, and voila. Salvage monsters are already arranged in EXP-camp style groups, unlike in Dynamis.

And unless somehow Salvage becomes the new Abyssea or Voidwatch, or at least the new Dynamis, this update will probably increase Alexandrite prices again because it's still too ****ing inaccessible, and the people doing it will cash in on the fact that yet another possible ray of hope for alexandrite has proven false. Anyone waiting for the Salvage revamp will be screwed and there'll be nothing to hold out for, and prices will soar again.

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They can't transform salvage into a farming zone because the goal is the gear. In dynamis the gear is garbage and the only thing worth doing is farming coins or marrows. From camate's post we can conclude that salvage gear is going to be good unlike limbus (free entry VS 3-man requirement, which will probably be too low as is for level 99 content). You can see it the same as voidwatch. It's impossible to solo farm your metal plates but the things are widely available in bazars. If the gear is good enough the supply will be there and there will be more balance among end game weapons. Everyone wins.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

You must be new to the game. Demand is going to increase and price will increase.

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We could always be hopeful that most people will be to lazy to do everything else leaving demand lower... its not going to happen.. but we could hope.

Well 1 way to open it would be have pop items drop off of all enemys in the area that pop the NMs which gear drop from. That way everyone can fight the NMs and get gear still like with the Arch-NMs for Dyna. Perfectly honest I have no idea though because I never really did Salvage, always seemed more annoying than it was worth to me, so this might fit nothing of what Salvage is/was and could be completely stupid nonsense.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

They can't transform salvage into a farming zone because the goal is the gear. In dynamis the gear is garbage and the only thing worth doing is farming coins or marrows. From camate's post we can conclude that salvage gear is going to be good unlike limbus (free entry VS 3-man requirement, which will probably be too low as is for level 99 content). You can see it the same as voidwatch. It's impossible to solo farm your metal plates but the things are widely available in bazars. If the gear is good enough the supply will be there and there will be more balance among end game weapons. Everyone wins.

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because that was sooo much the case with odin v2 that requires at least 6 people to enter? odin v2 gear is garbage too ¬.¬ cecxept for 1 weapon

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

Similar to how we added jobs that previously could not wear Homam/Nashira to the new Murzim and Shedir equipment available via the new higher-tier Limbus areas, the development team is planning to add dancer, scholar, and other jobs to the new Salvage equipment, but not to the currently existing Salvage gear.


In regards to reducing the number of required players for entry, I believe a similar response was made in the past about assault, but we do not have any plans of lowering the requirement due to concerns that instances will be filled faster causing congestion.

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Just think back in time when we had twice as many servers and about the same amount of endgame players to do events on... keep on not listing to us SE, you created this so called problem..

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In regards to reducing the number of required players for entry, I believe a similar response was made in the past about assault, but we do not have any plans of lowering the requirement due to concerns that instances will be filled faster causing congestion.

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I could have misread something, but I'm pretty sure they just posted something in the JP thread saying they would lower the requirements.

Greetings!

The higher tier Salvage expansion is currently under-development as we speak and I’d like to share the basic concept of what we will be adding.

Higher Tier Expansion

• High tier expansions will be added for each of the four areas (Arrapago Remnants, Silver Sea Remnants, Zhayolm Remnants, Bhaflau Remnants)
• Fundamental concept is the same as the original Salvage, but will be targeting level 99 characters
• Will contain strategy elements such as route selection and NM spawning conditions

Changes to the Pathos of Alzadaal

After considering that these imbued items clutter inventory, and the time spent lotting and distributing them made it difficult to focus on strategy, we will be changing the system so that instead of using items to unlock limitations, they will randomly be removed when defeating monsters.

While it will no longer be possible to select the player you wish to unlock, we are planning to make adjustments so that the effects removed by defeating monsters will be more than enough to go around.

Up to 18 players can participate, but we are envisioning a difficulty level that can be cleared with around 6 players. Additionally, due to the change in the system, the higher tier focus will be on relieving the entry-level difficulty associated with doing Salvage, while providing content and rewards for level 99 characters.

Reward wise we will be preparing two kinds of equipment: revamped versions of the previously existing Salvage gear and new equipment.

Finally, as shown on the road map we will be adding this to the Test Server around September and plan on spending time for balancing/adjustments. With that said, actual implementation is still a bit off, but we are working our best so you can all try it out on the Test Server.

We will be releasing more specific information around the timing of Test Server implementation, so hang in there a bit and look forward to it!

There anyway to make it so this will skip over individuals the either won't benefit from the pathos or already has it removed? While it will free up inventory I can see this as being a bit more of a strategy killer as you'd have to have the mages engage and kill a mob to get a pathos unlocked (unless I'm misreading this). You're talking about jobs that have absolutely no h2h skill and only means of being profecient in a type of damage is already locked (their magic) where as with cells you'd have the melee do kills for you to get the cells passed to these individuals.

If possible, can you clarify how this pathos unlock system is working? Is it randomly unlocking anyone in the zone or is it randomly unlocking only those who perform a killing blow? By "skipping over individuals who won't benifit" I mean melee jobs that have no main/sub use of magic skill at all (thus this shouldn't be locked in the first place or be required to be unlocked).

This also worries me. Not having to worry about distributing cells will be great but not being able to decide who gets what and when could be a huge pain. If my mage doesn't get magic and my non-mnk DD doesn't get weapons or abilities out of the gate problems will arise. I would suggest leaving the initial chest as it is. With cells that can be distributed.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Changes to the Pathos of Alzadaal

After considering that these imbued items clutter inventory, and the time spent lotting and distributing them made it difficult to focus on strategy, we will be changing the system so that instead of using items to unlock limitations, they will randomly be removed when defeating monsters.

While it will no longer be possible to select the player you wish to unlock, we are planning to make adjustments so that the effects removed by defeating monsters will be more than enough to go around.

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Could this be further explained?

Because as it stands it sounds more hurtful then helpful... Especially as, stated by others already, it means mages may not get magic/MP and DD's weapons/HP when they should. This also sounds like it'll make Salvage harder, and make making Mythics even harder in the long run.

Also, will this new system of not needing items to unlock pathos effect just the new Salvage areas or both of them?

If both of them... I weep for the future of Salvage.

Anybody want to do some some full unlock frogs when you can't get 3 people unlocked?

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Originally Posted by Muse

Could this be further explained?

Because as it stands it sounds more hurtful then helpful... Especially as, stated by others already, it means mages may not get magic/MP and DD's weapons/HP when they should. This also sounds like it'll make Salvage harder, and make making Mythics even harder in the long run.

Also, will this new system of not needing items to unlock pathos effect just the new Salvage areas or both of them?

If both of them... I weep for the future of Salvage.

Anybody want to do some some full unlock frogs when you can't get 3 people unlocked?

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Have to agree with this, especially considering the old system worked this way requiring that people strategize to unlock specific pathos on specific players only because the zone required it. So saying that cells hurts strategy but somehow a randomly pathos unlock system doesn't is kinda double standard given the past of Salvage requirements don't you think?

Imagine that the system would not require mages to be meleeing to unlock, sounds to me like kill x mob and random person in alli gets pathos unlocked.

Perhaps they will set up a method to prioritize pathos ex: mp and magic to mages, JA and Weapons to melee. That said as explained it does seem rather half baked.

I know my level of pessimism concerning the dev bros getting it right has gotten pretty high but I'm not willing to bet they will release the neo pathos system that incomplete... (oh dear god must find real wood to knock on now...)

Well, When its announced on the Test server, Someone hit me up, I'll go do a Run or two. If we get through 6-7 Mobs and our mage doesn't have magic yet, We can tell them they're dumb and they should feel bad.

Until then, PESSIMISTS, ASSEMBLE

My hope for the system:

• Mobs that dropped specific cells in the past, will now unlock pathos upon defeat instead.

• The pathos will unlock for all party/ally members.

My expectation:

• All mobs will have a ~10% chance at unlocking any random pathos for any random party/ally member.

• The system won't be smart enough to understand that you already have a particular pathos unlocked and will instead try to give DD their MP 20 times in a row before giving them weapons.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Changes to the Pathos of Alzadaal

After considering that these imbued items clutter inventory, and the time spent lotting and distributing them made it difficult to focus on strategy, we will be changing the system so that instead of using items to unlock limitations, they will randomly be removed when defeating monsters.

While it will no longer be possible to select the player you wish to unlock, we are planning to make adjustments so that the effects removed by defeating monsters will be more than enough to go around.

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You, good sir have made my day! Thank you!

Time to level monk again gimplets >_>. If they don't leave an initial chest with ruseful pathos it's going to be a pain without H2H.

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While it will no longer be possible to select the player you wish to unlock, we are planning to make adjustments so that the effects removed by defeating monsters will be more than enough to go around.

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hmm....then why even keep it? I imagine we will clear a type of mob on a certain floor and get a specific type of pathos unlocked..but like mentioned previously, random unlocks would force us to kill until we get the right player the right unlocks. But how much time will we lose with unlucky random unlocks. HP and weapon locked DDs while mages have no magic but full gear? As lame as the old "use-cell-item-to-unlock" method was...random in FFXI is almost always a step back.

The more random FFXI gets, the less strategy matters. We all had Salvage down. You go after the cells you need, you get the number of drops you need and you move on. Now we really have to /pray to the Random Gods to not give the SCH HP unlock before the MNK and before we run outta mobs?

Here's my 2 cents. Just put the Pathos unlocks into a perma treasure box in a few rooms of the floor. As we kill mobs you "fill" the box with that mobs specific unlock. For example, After you kill 10 lizards or w/e, 3-4 magic pathos unlocks pop into the box and the people who need can grab and go. We could know that the unlocks have landed with a simple message in the chat stating a temp item dropped. If you need more, go kill more, or move to the next mob type and unlock something else. No inventory clogging items, no need to bazaar, no one needs to pass or lot...and no random.

Will people that want the higher lvl gear need the old sets is all im worried about. Is this going to be like Neo Limbus or Neo Nyzul. Are you going to be rewarding people that spent time to get all their pieces and made the old sets, or you just giving new gear to everyone even if they never went before.

I was alittle upset when I found out I wasted time when I went out of my way to get the old sets before Nyzul got updated.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Time to level monk again gimplets everyone >_>. If they don't leave an initial chest with ruseful pathos it's going to be a pain without H2H.

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Agreed, until we know more cant say for certain but this already seems like its going badly.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

PESSIMISTS, ASSEMBLE

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The pathos-unlocking system will be so bitterly random that some people will have to put together mage-melee sets complete with satchels full of hi-potions and varied elixirs just to be useful for the first half-hour of each Salvage run.

Also, you have cancer. I have cancer. We all have cancer.

This is good, but you need to do it the main jobs priority is high on the list of options, otherwise this could go badly.

How it should work (similar to anyway):

WAR - Weapon > JA > Armour
WHM - Magic > JA
RDM - Magic > Weapon

How we don't want it:

WAR - Magic > MP > HP
WHM - Weapon > HP > Weaponskills
RDM - HP > JA > Armour

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

This also worries me. Not having to worry about distributing cells will be great but not being able to decide who gets what and when could be a huge pain. If my mage doesn't get magic and my non-mnk DD doesn't get weapons or abilities out of the gate problems will arise. I would suggest leaving the initial chest as it is. With cells that can be distributed.

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First floor mobs would be squishy, and if each one drops multiple unlocks, it shouldn't take long to unlock key unlocks on all members. If unlocks are automatic but random, they can check for existing unlocks and skip that person.

I'm more worried about the old salvage. Completing those armor pieces was a biatch, took ages and expensive to boot. Unlike nyzul, which dropped ready-to-go armor so you just had to get lucky. And unlike nyzul, salvage doesn't have mythic weapons that require reentry. So I'm hoping that neosalvage requires the old armor, perhaps as an upgrade.