No, a relic costs about 200000 dyna currency, which is worth about 230m. You pay that much to the goblins for a relic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureal
If you don't pay for it in Gil then it's free lol?
Dynamis Adjustments - Some Changes That Need To Be Made IMO
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08-20-2011, 05:17 AMDebbieGibson
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08-20-2011, 06:00 AMSureal
cue the "not sure if troll" pic
let me explain this slowly for you
if you farm, meaning you obtain ALL the currency on your own, and do not purchase any currency, you will only spend 50k for the KI to enter dynamis, you do not SPEND 200m+ gil when you turn in the currency, you dont pay the goblins a single cent outside of getting the KI to get into dynamis
it does not matter what the market value of the currency is if you are upgrading a relic yourself
i dont know how else to explain this -
08-20-2011, 06:05 AMDebbieGibsonOh ok I see so you can pay 50k and go pick up your relic tomorrow is what you're saying? Because that's what free means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureal
free
adverb /frē/
Without cost or payment
So relics have no cost, except for the 50k? You spend absolutely nothing but the 50k, relics are 50k now is what you're saying? -
08-20-2011, 07:01 AMSureal
/sigh
yes, basically, you are not coming out of pocket for anything but the initial KI cost
if you are upgrading a relic, it does not matter what the market value of the currency is, this does not mean you automatically get a relic for simply buying a KI, you have to put in work, BUT NO GIL OUT OF POCKET -
08-20-2011, 08:30 AMDebbieGibsonAnd how much is that work worth? Or does work have no value? Work is free too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureal
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08-20-2011, 08:46 AMSureal
are you serious? am i on candid camera or something
i swear, if ashton kutcher jumps out from behind me somewhere im going to be seriously pissed -
08-20-2011, 08:49 AMDebbieGibson
Last I recall, I think I spent something for work. But I can't remember exactly what it was. Let me think real hard. I spent...... blank....... working towards a relic. I think it starts with a T. I spent T___ working towards a relic... Damn I just have no idea what it was. I guess relics really are free after all!
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08-20-2011, 08:52 AMSureal
im done, i think i just felt my brain explode
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08-20-2011, 10:20 AMRakshaHe's being a dick about it, but he IS right. Just because something doesn't cost gil doesnt mean it is free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureal
Primeval brew doesn't cost gil, is it free too?
Opportunity cost is an important concept to understand when discussing these things. -
08-20-2011, 03:40 PMArconSome brains can't handle the truth. It's ok, yours isn't the only one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureal
Everything in this game costs money. Time is money. A very old but very true saying. So if something costs time, it effectively costs you money. If you spend six months farming your relic, you get ~200M worth of currency in that time. So instead of buying the relic you could sell that currency for loads of money. It's interchangeable. It's even interchangeable after, although not legal, by selling your account. There is no such thing as "free effort", everything you invest in costs you something. And that something is money. Even if you only invest time in, it's money.
For example, if you can farm gil faster than you can farm currency in the same amount of time, you can just farm the gil for it and then buy it. So are you saying one way is free and the other way costs you 200M, so it's better to go the long way? Do you think you've earned it more if you've farmed currency instead of farming the money for it, because you just bought it?
Relics aren't free, they're very expensive, no matter how you go about it. If you've farmed every coin and then bought it, you have a potential loss of ~200M. Just because you don't see the gil disappear from your screen, doesn't mean you didn't lose it. -
08-21-2011, 02:30 AMAramachushmm why not make them free? to be honest when I heard first about dynamis maps my first impulse was we just get them when entering the area so I was a bit confused when seeing you think about a price. selling them for a low amount of ancient currency would give the currency more uses than only upgrading relics but still, maps are a one time purchase and once everyone got, currency is only for relics again. how I got the idea maps can be for free? well Ive done a lot of assault and nyzul isle back then and the maps for that you get for free when entering the area. would be nice to have maps for dynamis and limbus too just by entering the area. I dont think it would affect the game balance in any wayQuote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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08-23-2011, 12:48 AMTwilleThe price should be cheap, very very cheap. They're maps we technically have already. It's not like they're different zones really...Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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08-23-2011, 12:26 PMKavikwhere have you been doing Nyzule Isle? There is no map for nyzule, i entered the day before yesterday and hit map instinctively. "There is no map for this area" i wish there were maps for nyzule isle, i don't really see why there isn't, you could buy it with tokens, running around looking for your partners is silly, especially in a heavily time compressed area, while this is not a particularly large difficulty for veteran players, i dare someone to take in 5 people that have never been in nyzule isle before and try to have them win with no instruction, guidance, or a map. The rest of the assault maps are not free either, they are parts of other maps you have to obtain, such as caedarva mire, arrapago reef, etc.Quote:
well Ive done a lot of assault and nyzul isle back then and the maps for that you get for free when entering the area. would be nice to have maps for dynamis and limbus too just by entering the area. I dont think it would affect the game balance in any way
This being said i don't know why we had to rebuy abyssea maps they're the same maps. We didn't have to buy any of the wings of the goddess maps (except for the ones which zones no longer exist ie Grauberg, which we had to quest).
I agree they should be free or like 1 gil, if you muse make them 'buyable' 500 gil is plenty. -
08-23-2011, 09:55 PMMirage
A relic costs 50k if your time is worth nothing. I don't know about your life, Sureal, but my time isn't worth nothing. My time is worth whatever I can get in forms of other valuables in the same amount of time. For relic farming, this is about 200 million gil.
Feels like high school economics in here! -
08-24-2011, 10:43 AMAramachus
@kavik
youre totally right, I dont know where I had my mind, sure nyzul doesnt have a map, finding the way back to the runic lamp wouldnt be half as annoying in some cases :S
but yeah while assault areas may be parts of other areas, the dynamis areas are exact copies of maps we already have. the comparison with past areas is even better, we have the map so we know our way around there. Its even a case of common sense that if you go into say bastok and you have the map of that city, now you go into a parallel dimension that looks exact the same, you can still look at the same map to find your way around. -
08-27-2011, 08:20 AMKavikWithout the text, but yes i totally agree. Also i would like to point out that there are maps of Salvage areas, so why don't we have a map of Nyzul Isle?Quote:
the dynamis areas are exact copies of maps we already have. the comparison with past areas is even better, we have the map so we know our way around there. Its even a case of common sense that if you go into say bastok and you have the map of that city, now you go into a parallel dimension that looks exact the same, you can still look at the same map to find your way around.
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08-28-2011, 10:07 AMSelzakYou don't understand economics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureal
If the currency would cost you 230,000,000 gil, but you farm it instead of buying it, then you're still using 230,000,000 gil worth of currency to make your relic. The only difference is that you never exchange the gil; the cost stays the same.
Let's say an apple costs $1.50.
You want an apple, but you don't feel like it's worth $1.50.
Your solution is to go and procure your own apple.
You now have an apple(which is worth $1.50).
Therefore, if you eat the apple, then you've lost $1.50.
The only real decision to make is one based on value. Is $1.50 a fair price? If not, then you should not buy the apple and you should sell your own. If it is a fair price, then you should just buy the apple- because you stand nothing to gain (specifically, you lose) by doing $1.50 worth of work to obtain it instead of doing something else within that same period of time that would have resulted in more than $1.50.
A 100-piece of dynamis currency sells for about 1.2mil from what I've seen.
It's pretty easy to make 200k cruor/hour in Abyssea- which translates to roughly 600k gil/hour.
So in two hours I can do the work required to obtain a 100-piece of dynamis currency.
If I go out and farm the currency instead, and spend 1-2 hours for a (apparently small) chance, then I am losing gil (about (100 - %chance of drop)/100 x 1.2mil is how I'd calculate that) with that poor decision.