Attacking other players while under the effect of Charm

I love killing random strangers for fun!

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

If teaming up makes a fight harder that's your fault for not properly communicating strategy. No NM in Abyssea really requires more than one or two lines of instruction for everyone relevant to the battle.

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It's really simple, invite, you do the work, tell them not to toutch it. This is very difficult for some people to understand, and said people end up feeding mob tp and as a result you cant proc.

Nuking people in besieged brings me much enjoyment.

Did anyone else read this and just ROFL? Cuz I sure did....

Kill. Them. All.

There seem to be some very good arguments in here as to why all NM pops should be made so that anyone holding the pop set can pop the mob regardless of if one is already up. If you attempt your mob and fail, then the mob can depop

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If you attempt your mob and fail, then the mob can depop

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This has no benefit to anyone really

Would love to see a charm ability for players to charm beastmen to attack nms with. Note not beasts like bst can.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

The act of attacking a charmed person itself isn't against ToS, but make sure you don't cross over into grief tactics. For example, if you dia a charmed person just so their pt can't sleep them and walk off, at GM discretion, it is possible to get in trouble for that.

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Most things that charm you also put a DOT on you to thwart sleep anyway.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

This has no benefit to anyone really

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It wasnt meant to >.> it was meant as get it right or dont win anything. If you have taken the time to get the pop why should others be able to steal the mob from you.

I wish all mobs in abyssea had the ability to charm, it would be like pvp revived but better since you can gear swap, would be nice after uncharming if your still alive to have the chance for revenge on whoever attacked you while you we're charmed, would add a whole new challenge to the game.

Would like to see AoE spells work on entire groups of charmed people as well.

If they we're to fix the charm aspect and being attacked by another player outside of your group, then the best way to go about it would be to have the charm effect wear off once you take damage from someone outside the group. Although if you we're attacked by someone in your group the charmed effect would stay on till it's duration was over.

If this thread is about Cirein-croin and being killed by other LS's, I'm suprised people haven't figured out how to avoid his charm move. There's a very simple solution to his move but it's not up on wiki, I doubt anyone will post how to avoid it either since it's one of the few oppurtunitys to kill other groups for sport and a good laugh amongst friends.

Don't think theres any way to avoid Raskovniks charm move but I could be wrong have only fought him once long ago for atma and his key item doesnt lead to an empyrean mob set. Hes just for eccentric eves pop set so I doubt you'll see many fighting it like at Cirein-croin so the chance of getting killed while charmed is really low. Anyways best to just gold chest farm Abyssea - Konschtat in between killing fistule, always a chance at some nice dark rings as well while doing it.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Most things that charm you also put a DOT on you to thwart sleep anyway.

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Is there a DoT that can't be Erase-d before Sleep-ing?

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Is there a DoT that can't be Erase-d before Sleep-ing?

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You can't cast erase or na spells on some one who is charmed. Also I never noticed mobs that charm have a high frequency of DoTs as well. Sure of them do, but never seemed like a disportionate amount at least in my experience.

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Originally Posted by katz

It wasnt meant to >.> it was meant as get it right or dont win anything. If you have taken the time to get the pop why should others be able to steal the mob from you.

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So it's a spite thing? We weren't good enough to kill it, so nobody else should?

Let's say a group needs [insert drop here] and we wipe at 20% to [inseret mob here], which drops that item they need one of.

I'd rather them kill it, get that drop and leave (or even if they need more than 1, be 1 drop closer to leaving and not having to fight to pop the NM), than it to simply just disappear and have to worry about them trying to pop it over us on the next attempt.

This situation) Possibility the other group gtfo's faster and leaves you alone
Your situation) 0 benefit to anyone at all.

Again, unless it's just plain out of spite, I don't see why anyone would want your scenario in comparison.

its funny as hell

Pro Tip:If you're a Warrior and see a dual wield job charmed use Retaliation and enjoy the fun. I tried this on a NIN friend once just to see how it would turn out and then went from full to 0 in like 5 seconds cause of their attack speed it was pretty amusing, but it's not something I would do to people I don't know.

The act of being charmed is for some it can be a stress relieving thing getting humor off killing your comrades, on the positive they don't lose any xp and it can be fun at times.

Though on the serious end it's not something you would wanna do in a serious situation but in one where you have everything handled and just wanna have some fun lol.

Another amusing thing about being charmed is skillup works both ways, the charmed player can actually gain skillup from the person they attack and I believe it works the other way as well. Heck what better way to show a sense of cooperation then to beat the crap out of one another in an attempt to skillup combat skills. That's something you can't do in Ballista. Granted I am being sarcastic to an extent but it's amusing during those small windows when you are charmed and attacking an ally and you see a you gain .2 skillup.

Not sure why this thought just popped in my head but it would be amusing if SE made a new PVP concept where two players order around charmed players on the battlefield, strategically commanding them to use certain moves and command to take down the foe, but in a generic command where you can't outright say sleepga II, it would be more like "slow down the enemy" and they may use sleep, or bind and such. Anyways ya I think for the most part people are pretty civil with charm I've never actually witnessed a random person killing another stranger while they are charmed out of the fear that the same may be done to them. The only time I really see people being killed are when they are familiar with one another lol and then it's just done in humor.

lol love killing charm ppl with wildfire on ppl lol

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Originally Posted by Urteil

Kill them all.

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I have to agree with this sentiment haha.

Charm being so fun shows people secretly desire PvP.

I made it a habit to Jishnu's Radiance individuals charmed back when I used to RNG Titlacauan.

So the FFXI community loves killing charmed people but not PvP?

Oh wait, that's just the retarded people.

Oh wai-

I just realized how fun it would be to hang out by cirein-croin or titlacauan after pimping out BLM and nuking everyone.

Well, i did not read all thread but this make me remember Pallas... People was killing his bat so pallas could charm the solo'er and then they was killing him and claim Pallas... We did call GM and GM said they was unable to do anything about it since is game mechanic...

I saw same happen again "Eccentric Eve", player got charmed, then they got kill by competition and NM stoled. Is that group got punished? I doubt, but was funny to watch none the less, i would probably be piss if this happen to me, but no worry, i always have a backup tank staying far....

A few years ago had a couple friends that got jailed then 3 day banned and the other was warned for killing charmed people at Tiamat. They told the GM they were doing it because they were being attacked by other players, the GM didn't buy it. But the real reason they were doing it because they didn't like the LS that was killing Tiamat and thought it was hilarious when they were killing their charmed players.

So I guess it really depends on the GM you get. A lot of these NA GMs are outsourced and hired by a 3rd party company by SE anyway and know little about FFXI.

But if your bad enough to get charmed by a corse at Tiamat then you deserve to die. But why have mobs even charm players if someone can just call a GM on you for killing the charmed players?

HNM was serious bizness dood!

I guess is not only about GM, but case by case. If is done in goal of pissing another group, GM might see it as harrasment, but if that X player involve game mechanic then i think GM would be forced to take no action... Maybe i am wrong too, but like i said i still have SS and LOG from that GM for pallas, and nothing he could do outside say how he was sorry.

Another old story, back in the time i was mana burning tiger from gigas in the past (very good exp), some random group came in and bumped us (saying they had 6 player and us only 3 so they had priority) They won, so i left and came back THF and started kill the gigas for 2h long, they all GM me, but i claimed to farm gigas item, so GM been forced to take no action, but i am pretty sure if i said to GM, i do it bc they stoled my camp and is my zone so they can deal with me now, he would have suspended my account for 3 day.

IMO SE have to fix the charm mechanic is the only real way.

I have no problem nuking friends when we fight charmed mobs. Usually I keep a killcount and pray to god I don't end up in the charmed group so people don't get their revenge on me. This is why I like going mages or THF on things like C-C (I could attack if I wanted to on THF, but usually we kill so fast I don't really give a damn about putting full effort and just TH tag and stand back), because that way I see a person charmed, go after them and boom, one more point to chalk up to my killcount. :D

Charged Whisker worked AoE on charmed people from C-C, took out a WAR, THF, and DRK (first two unintentional because Convergence didn't go off but funny nonetheless!) with one CW for ~2.5k each. It was hilarious.

That aside, when it comes to random people? I don't like to invite hate when it comes to randomly MPKing them, so I avoid doing it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it and I'd prolly laugh my head off if I went around doing it. It's more satisfying to KO your friends though. Moral-wise, I don't care; it's a legal game mechanic and thus I have no problem with it. Socially, on the other hand, I see it as a big no-no unless it's friends because then it invites hate I don't like to deal with. Drama's a headache when it's actually mine.

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

Moral-wise, I don't care; it's a legal game mechanic and thus I have no problem with it. Socially, on the other hand, I see it as a big no-no unless it's friends because then it invites hate I don't like to deal with. Drama's a headache when it's actually mine.

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See that was my old politic in FFXI, stuff changed lately, i steal NM every day now, i pop in front of a group careless, and i surly probably MPK someone if he was charmed just to steal his NM. OMG why i am i so mean? Ask that to those linkshell that been camping me on glavoid ( i lost 7 glavoid total when i did Ukon, and i am at 3 otrhtus stoled) but i am catching up big time now, i stoled 6 Orthrus, 5 hedjedjet, i give back same deal to everyone, you have no idea of the satisfaction it give me. Now when i loose agains NM and someone steal i just pop the next one, but be careful when i am around, your NM is not anymore safe if you wipe.

There less and less ethic in abyssea, and i am not planing changing my way since i would be the only stupid one doing so. For sure SE need change some mechanic in the game.

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

That aside, when it comes to random people? I don't like to invite hate when it comes to randomly MPKing them, so I avoid doing it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it and I'd prolly laugh my head off if I went around doing it. It's more satisfying to KO your friends though. Moral-wise, I don't care; it's a legal game mechanic and thus I have no problem with it. Socially, on the other hand, I see it as a big no-no unless it's friends because then it invites hate I don't like to deal with. Drama's a headache when it's actually mine.

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I agree with your stance completely. I love love love killing charmed friends when it won't seriously compromise our current objective, but I absolutely refuse to kill random charmed people who generally behave in a civil manner and go about their business. My friends and I will sometimes take Abyssea NMs, but only if the other group fully wiped and cannot continue the fight without the aid of unlimited Apoc reraises.

@Ilax: You're an ass. Other people followed your group because it sounds like your group wiped on a fairly regular basis. Your failures are not good excuses, in my opinion, to run about facilitating wipes by killing random charmed people. I don't see any issue with stumbling upon a wiped group and claiming/killing 'their' NM. I do have a real problem with people who facilitate such wipes by killing charmed folks whose sin was being charmed around MMO sociopaths.

You cannot bemoan the supposed decline in ethical behavior in Abyssea while actively and proudly behaving in an unethical manner. That's hypocrisy. It's one thing to kill RMT and those with whom you have a legitimate grudge, but it's an entirely different matter to go about disturbing people who are otherwise going about their business and generally not wiping to NMs (it is different if they wipe to almost everything they pop/claim).

What if you just have a grudge with poopie-talking, doo-doo heads.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

See that was my old politic in FFXI, stuff changed lately, i steal NM every day now, i pop in front of a group careless, and i surly probably MPK someone if he was charmed just to steal his NM. OMG why i am i so mean? Ask that to those linkshell that been camping me on glavoid ( i lost 7 glavoid total when i did Ukon, and i am at 3 otrhtus stoled) but i am catching up big time now, i stoled 6 Orthrus, 5 hedjedjet, i give back same deal to everyone, you have no idea of the satisfaction it give me. Now when i loose agains NM and someone steal i just pop the next one, but be careful when i am around, your NM is not anymore safe if you wipe.

There less and less ethic in abyssea, and i am not planing changing my way since i would be the only stupid one doing so. For sure SE need change some mechanic in the game.

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Eeek hit this on the head; you're being an utter hypocrite. If you fail, your NM is free game. Apoc-zombieing is not "recovering" in my eyes, and as a result if I see a group that has to do that to win, I'll either sit and wait for a full group wipe and then take it, or get annoyed watching it go white again and again and take it before someone else does. However, you sound like you're just stalking a group (which is funny, since they "did it to you first", yet you're doing the same...) because you're a little butthurt that someone took some of your failures. If you messed up, then rethink your strategy and do better so that people don't take it. If someone else fails, and you see a monster free game? Feel free to take it, it's a legal game strategy.

However, stalking a linkshell just because you have a grudge is both socially and morally deplorable. Is it against the game's rules? Technically, since your intent as stated here (on the official forums no less!) is both purposely aiming to steal as "retaliation" for their "misdeeds" before, you could prolly be GM'd for griefing. If you're just taking the ones they wipe on, fine, but if you're stealing when a mob goes white for a second or anything like that, then yeah, you're just makin' an ass out of yourself. Doing this hurts both your social and your moral reputation.

Kill them, they're going to attack you so might as well be them and not you.

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I love love love killing charmed friends when it won't seriously compromise our current objective, but I absolutely refuse to kill random charmed people who generally behave in a civil manner and go about their business. My friends and I will sometimes take Abyssea NMs, but only if the other group fully wiped and cannot continue the fight without the aid of unlimited Apoc reraises.

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This, although I admit sometimes I really, really want to CW charmed groups. Not because I hate them or hold a grudge or anything, purely for the lulz (I main BLM, so I enjoy things blowing up; if it's other players, all the better). I don't do it though, because it would be really, really rude of me.

I remember being in Sea with the Linkshell and waiting for our tanks to get charmed so we could unleash WS and nukes on them just for shits and giggles. It's was fun time to time as long as the fights weren't getting chaotic. Then we'd only aspir the tanks <.<

"Stop stealing my MP!!" :D

However, I never attacked charmed players outside of our Linkshell/party. And imo doing so is really a NPH move. The only place I guess it would be mildly acceptable would be Besieged; and even there I'm betting people would still be upset.

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Originally Posted by Bulrogg

I remember being in Sea with the Linkshell and waiting for our tanks to get charmed so we could unleash WS and nukes on them just for shits and giggles. It's was fun time to time as long as the fights weren't getting chaotic. Then we'd only aspir the tanks <.<

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Haha! I remember in Dynamis - San d'Oria one time a year or two ago, everyone got charmed and I didn't have MP, so I Aspir'd one of the tanks and used the MP to blow up a DRK. It was pretty fun.

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Originally Posted by Eeek

@Ilax: You're an ass. Other people followed your group because it sounds like your group wiped on a fairly regular basis. Your failures are not good excuses, in my opinion, to run about facilitating wipes by killing random charmed people. I don't see any issue with stumbling upon a wiped group and claiming/killing 'their' NM. I do have a real problem with people who facilitate such wipes by killing charmed folks whose sin was being charmed around MMO sociopaths.

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You can call me an ass if you wan, as i said, i do it as revenge. I "TRIO BOX" my empy weapon. i have 3 now and working on 3 more, of course trio glavoid mean trouble at some point specially when he do disgorge, i think i would not care if someone take NM when they see is "game over" for me, but that is not what they did 7x time, they was camping me, and by that, i speak of a FULL LINKSHELL standing next to me watiing if i gonna die and when i say DIE is not wipe, and as soon he go unclaim BAAM they spam stun on it to steal.

Call me an ass as you wan, i just return the favor to all those people that think is right to steal NM, i am over it now, and as i stated i don't care anymore if people steal my NM, since is what i do myself now everyday. You know is funny to see how many noob wipe on everything (by that i mean a group of 15 people wiping on orthrus when i trio it in they face (after i stole it of course) is a major joy after the treatment i got from glavoid.

Like you said, i am not a solid group by "trio box" my empy weapon, so people can take avantage of me, but good news for you, i am solid enough to return favor and steal your stuff too. You see where all this go now, you really think i would just sit back, take my juice and take no action? must be kidding me.

Again, i'm an ass? I guess, ty everyone for turning me that way.

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Eeek hit this on the head; you're being an utter hypocrite. If you fail, your NM is free game. Apoc-zombieing is not "recovering" in my eyes, and as a result if I see a group that has to do that to win, I'll either sit and wait for a full group wipe and then take it, or get annoyed watching it go white again and again and take it before someone else does. However, you sound like you're just stalking a group

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You can think w/e you wan about me, i am over it now, i never complain anymore for NM steal, i do camp other group to see if they gonna wipe, and i do steal everytime i have a chance, full wipe or not, i don't give anymore a heck.

My politic wont change till everyone politic change, chance that happen is 0, so yes deal with it.

The thing is, if someone is doing it to you then yeah, its fine to do it back to them but it sounds like you are butthurt your NMs got stolen so instead of paying it back to the group that did it to you, you do it to other people that did you no wrong at all.

If you are camping people and doing it over and over again, you are griefing. Not really wise to admit that on the official forum, lol.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

wat

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You sound like the type of person who would go home and beat their wife because you stubbed your toe at work.

Read: You're taking out all your pent up anger over losing a mob on random people who have done nothing wrong to you. This is the signs of anger problems. You should seek professional help if your means of out-letting your anger is going out of your way to harass/target/kill people in FFXI because some linkshell took your Glavoids.

Two wrongs don't make a right. You make people as miserable as you were when you got your Glavoids stolen simply out of hatred for those people who stole your mob?

It sucks to have vultures take your mob but purposefully going out of your way to do that to other people just because it happened to you is far worse than the what that Linkshell did. You have become worse than the people you hated so much.

@Karbuncle: not really, i sound more like a guy that would beat wife bc she beat me and steal/cheat me, that sound more correct.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

The thing is, if someone is doing it to you then yeah, its fine to do it back to them but it sounds like you are butthurt your NMs got stolen so instead of paying it back to the group that did it to you, you do it to other people that did you no wrong at all.

If you are camping people and doing it over and over again, you are griefing. Not really wise to admit that on the official forum, lol.

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If it was just 1 linkshell, but huh no, it been different linkshell acting the same way, and let be serious, if your LS see a "trio box" doing glavoid, wont you start camping him too? to me now it seem like is general (everyone do that and they all think is Ok, is now time for those Trio box [like me] give some revenge. Every time someone think is "ok" to steal, you just creating your own evil, and of course i know i am not going to fix anything by acting like an ASS, but for now it give to myself a satisfaction instead make me wan to quit the game, and by satisfaction, i mean OMG i take pleasure of it now... [i look more like an ass now right? is my goal too, and hope more trio box take same reaction about it or HOPEFULLY SE take real action and make the one who pop NM get drop in his PT, no matter who kill it, same system as Key Item. [Easy fix right?] till then well, keep stealing NM thinking you have more right then them, and deal with the "griefing" because they just wan revenge.

It still doesnt make it right to go around and camp other people when they did NOTHING to you. Shockingly, not everyone playing this game is a jerk. Why would you go around and do it to other people that didnt do anything to you, when you don't like it when its done to you? Maybe you should "suck less" when you 3 box.

And no, I have better things to do than camp people killing NMs.

Not sure if someone actually answered the OP's original question (to tired to read through all 8 pages right now), however killing someone who is charmed is not against the ToS. I probably still have the SS from around 6 years ago when we had some LS members camping Xolotl. There was a group that would also camp against us and when ever we got claim they would nuke us every time it charmed us ended up stealing a fair number of Xolotl from us and GM told us right out that killing a charmed character is not a violation of the ToS, it is a risk we take fighting a mob with that move at its disposal.