Can we get a different negative effect from Retaliation please(/hates moving slow ><)

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Originally Posted by kingfury

But they get a Wyvern... o.o With magic spit and so on...

They would have to share some of WARs smexy JA's to reach that spot. Warrior's Charge, Blood Rage, Mighty Strikes, etc..

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Eh, new jumps make up for damage loss of not having blood rage since they (iirc) are 100% crit. warrior's charge is pretty bad in abyssea atm, and DRG's 2hr is compartive to if not better than mighty strikes (if no brd) since it will cause jumps to reduce def (without cap iirc) by 12% EACH.

Red Curry Buns and Angon make up for no berserk/warcry.

Drakesbane is better than all WS other than Ukko's and Jishnu's atm too.

So your saying the only thing holding them back is Retaliation? Not DA, Critical hit boost, multiple ways to boost attack and dmg with JAs and such? I've actually never even seen a DRG use their 2hr... like ever. o.o

Maybe I've not had the honor of fighting along side some pimp DRGs is why I find this hard to believe. I've never seen a DRG out dmg me even when I was rockin RR only. I'd love to find a master DRG to compete with! :D

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Originally Posted by kingfury

Maybe I've not had the honor of fighting along side some pimp DRGs is why I find this hard to believe. I've never seen a DRG out dmg me even when I was rockin RR only. I'd love to find a master DRG to compete with! :D

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WAR is very overpowered currently, which is why sometimes it may seem like DRG doesn't measure up. But it does, it's an exceptional DD, from my experience the second best (arguable inside Abyssea, since Monks can do somewhat ok damage there).

Retaliation boosts a WAR's normal damage by a great amount, even with just one mob hitting them. This amount is less significant, the more haste you have, without Haste it could be up to 60% damage boost (still with only one mob). And it makes things like FC burns or skillup burns possible, when otherwise it would be very infeasible.

Personally I absolutely hate the movement speed reduction. Nothing worse than that. The moment I could toss my Dusk Gloves was one of the happiest in my FFXI career. I can definitely understand the need for a negative effect, but this has always bugged me. It's a personal thing.

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Originally Posted by kingfury

So your saying the only thing holding them back is Retaliation? Not DA, Critical hit boost, multiple ways to boost attack and dmg with JAs and such? I've actually never even seen a DRG use their 2hr... like ever. o.o

Maybe I've not had the honor of fighting along side some pimp DRGs is why I find this hard to believe. I've never seen a DRG out dmg me even when I was rockin RR only. I'd love to find a master DRG to compete with! :D

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DRG 2hr is actually stupid powerful, but unfortunately it's only that great in one of those no brd situations and when you have a DNC.

Spirit Surge= 25% Magic Haste, release cooldown on Jumps, causes jumps to reduce defense by 12% each, stacking up to 24% and stacking with angon (IIRC). This means it basically caps your attack on anything if you use both jumps and angon.

Well, since DRG gets a bit of DA in gear the new auto crit jumps make up for the last 15% WAR has over them. DRG is also more capable of a lower xhit considering they have more access to stp gear over WAR.

In the end if a DRG is using Angon it will probably match WAR's Berserk and Warcry, meaning the only thign WAR has over DRG is Blood Rage and Crit Hit bonus, which is big in abyssea, not so big outside. In some way the wyvern makes up for this, however the fact that DRG's empyrean weapon sucks makes it a far and away competition if the DRG doesn't have Ryunohige. But in that case, WAR is a far and away competition in every way anyway.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

WAR is very overpowered currently, which is why sometimes it may seem like DRG doesn't measure up. But it does, it's an exceptional DD, from my experience the second best (arguable inside Abyssea, since Monks can do somewhat ok damage there).

Retaliation boosts a WAR's normal damage by a great amount, even with just one mob hitting them. This amount is less significant, the more haste you have, without Haste it could be up to 60% damage boost (still with only one mob). And it makes things like FC burns or skillup burns possible, when otherwise it would be very infeasible.

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Yeah, I wouldn't dare say that DRG's aren't capable of dishing out some mean dmg, because I have been impressed in the past with what I've seen some LS members produce while on the job. Still, I've only seen decked out DRGs in passing, and have never got the chance to see what those career types can really do.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Personally I absolutely hate the movement speed reduction. Nothing worse than that. The moment I could toss my Dusk Gloves was one of the happiest in my FFXI career. I can definitely understand the need for a negative effect, but this has always bugged me. It's a personal thing.

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For me being a Galka, the slow movement speed is almost always ammo for my party members to crack "Fat boy" jokes lol >< But seriously, there has to be another stat that can take movement speeds place! ><

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Originally Posted by kingfury

True, but in terms of "beneficial" stuff, not getting hit from a successful parry is a good thing. Getting hit more, even if it in-directly helps Retaliation proc more, is still sorta on the bad list yeah? Most still wouldn't notice it enough to say, "Hey, I'm retaliating more all of a sudden" since parry only procs when pixy children are born... on sunny days... with Wind weather only.

At any rate, I wouldn't mind anything else, so long as it's not movement speed ><

Then again... why do we need a negative side to this JA at all?

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How about they switch the movement speed down effect with -30% crit hit rate since it doesn't matter to the op as long as its not movement speed down.

The negative is balanced. If anything they need to change it to something that gimps war a little bit as it stands warrior is completly overpowered.

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Originally Posted by Habiki

How about they switch the movement speed down effect with -30% crit hit rate since it doesn't matter to the op as long as its not movement speed down.

The negative is balanced. If anything they need to change it to something that gimps war a little bit as it stands warrior is completly overpowered.

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Ugh. Where are you from, the PUP side of things? Why are you posting in WAR threads? Never mind. Please don't respond. I don't feel like going back and forth with ya. I'm tired of post like these.

wth are you talking about "The negative is balanced." Balanced how? Based on what? Ughh ><

it's balanced in the way that it "annoy" people!

i don't mind the -30%crit rate on retalliation (because I use war for cleave)

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Then again... why do we need a negative side to this JA at all?

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agree, remove retaliate negative side.
but remove also hasso/ seigan, counterstance, yonin/inin negatives!!

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Originally Posted by kingfury

wth are you talking about "The negative is balanced." Balanced how? Based on what? Ughh ><

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There's a lot of abilities that offer certain trade-offs. Zergressor is another WAR example. And I don't really see anything wrong with it, sacrificing one thing for another. I just find movement speed reduction horribly annoying. I'd trade it for Attack Down for example.

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Originally Posted by hiko

it's balanced in the way that it "annoy" people!

i don't mind the -30%crit rate on retalliation (because I use war for cleave)


agree, remove retaliate negative side.
but remove also hasso/ seigan, counterstance, yonin/inin negatives!!

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/Kingfury gives Hiko a Highfive! Except for the -30%Crit part, ‹Yes Please!› lol