sadly GM's appear to have dropped the ball

Making the claim system work based on hate only opens the door for major PLD claim-stealing abuse.

Right now, the cure-bomb-claim-steal methodology only works if it moves the NM far enough away from the group with claim that the Player with claim disengages, causing the NM to go white.

If claim was simply assigned to the player with the most hate, any PLD could cure1 + Sentinel/Curecheat/Invincible and cap VE with a fair amount of CE and potentially rip claim off of groups that aren't capping their TE.

Claim being assigned based on Enmity is also very dangerous, since it would cause Charm-wielding NMs to *always* charm the player with direct Claim. It is extremely easy to have more hate than the sole WHM in a group when the melees are charmed, making it significantly easier to steal Cirein-Croin from any group at all; whether they are informed about claim mechanics or not.

Right now at least, any group that knows what they are doing can prevent loss of claim 100% of the time by taking very simple actions at the appropriate times. It is simply a matter of knowing how it works and what you need to do.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I'd argue that it shouldn't be okay. Potentially people could spend a lot of time getting pop items to find that as soon as say, their tank dies and loses claim and before somebody else manages to regain claim, somebody nicks it making prior effort a waste of time, where as the people who took claim just needed to be at the right place at the right time.

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That's called screwing up. They might not have wiped but you don't have to wipe to screw up. They've removed enough consequences for screwing up, they don't need to remove more.

All they really need to do is make the popped NM's use the confrontation status thing they have on missions/quests in other add-ons--renders the mob unclaimable by non-alliance members until it dies or despawns if I remember right. Think it also blocked non-alliance members from taking action on you as well.

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Well to the uniformed: our blm had put a DoT on it and our war provoked it, but it still went yellow and got claimed by the other group. And the fact they did this 4 times in succession and attempted a 5th IS a violation since that shows they were hovering over other groups to steal their claim. Afterwards they began harrassing us, asking us if we were going to pop it again cause they couldn't wait to steal it again. This portion we have evidence of.

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Nothing wrong with this and it has nothing to do with a GM, the mob is silly easy and the only difficulty is the charm/lose claim stage. It's very easy to not lose claim so the realy fault is your group, the others were simply farming the NM is another way and simply grabbing the NM off incompetent groups. Nothing wrong with that, it's not very nice but if it works why not?

This is no more a breach of the ToS than if they killed your charmed people and then took the mob.

Killing charmed players is hilarious. Personally, I only do it when the person who's charmed is a friend of mine. But it is still hilarious.

I've said this before in a previous thread, but for ZNMs if you pop a mob and lose it to another party the popper can actually reclaim by going within a certain range of the mob. At about 10 yalms or so if I pt stole your mob it will automatically turn red for you and purple for them. I think that would be an awesome system to put in since it's alrdy in the game. However me thinks that SE didn't want to spend the time putting this into abyssea, just because of the extra work it would have made for them, with the sheer amount of pop NMs there are.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

All they really need to do is make the popped NM's use the confrontation status thing they have on missions/quests in other add-ons--renders the mob unclaimable by non-alliance members until it dies or despawns if I remember right. Think it also blocked non-alliance members from taking action on you as well.

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I think this is probably a better solution.

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That's called screwing up. They might not have wiped but you don't have to wipe to screw up. They've removed enough consequences for screwing up, they don't need to remove more.

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There are still consequences as anybody who dies becomes weakened making the fight harder. So when people do screw up it still has a negative effect on the rest of the party, in the example, we had to work a lot harder to compensate for weakened tanks and what would have been an easy win turned into a bigger challenge. So I think it's still a douchebag move to take a mob, after all, it suddenly becomes an easy win, in that example the people who took the mob killed it in seconds because we had weakened it that much. Easy KI for them, easy seals for them.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

Should the claim system be based on hate

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It is based on hate. Unless the new person claiming already has decent hate built up (or uses a butt load of VE abilities), then even if they cast on the mob it can still stay white.

For example, Mnk and Whm are killing a NM. Whm is resting and Mnk accidentally disengages. Mob goes white. If you cast dia on it, the mob will still stay white and keep attacking the monk. If the monk does some other action against the mob to claim it again it will go purple immidiately.

i think the unclaim system in abyssea on certain mobs is broken to a extent. Having mobs go white doing a fight is rather annoying if the sole person with hate dies and there will always be the vultures that want to get an easy kill from that. But on a positive side didn't they make it if someone steals your NM you still get KI's even if their party kills it? Atleast that makes things a bit better, but personally i think which ever group pop's the NM should have sole rights to all drops so if it gets stolen and there is still some hate on the field somewhere that all drops go to the party that pop'd it instead of a group who's main purpose in this game is to be jerks.

People always say its the parties fault or your not skilled enough when they steal you mob but wasn't everyone there at one point, have some compassion to those in trouble and help them become better players for a better Vana 'diel.

While camping you for stealing the mob post charmga is a dick move i have to ask this...
SIX HOURS? WTF?