ok i didnt understand something about thief

Some trusted members of the community did some math and determined that TH+ beyond 8 probably doesn't help. They've done statistical analysis and provided confidence intervals.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/5...-14/7/#3688782

Some random person on the official forum with a chip on their shoulder did a couple tests with a much smaller sample size, without statistical analysis, without providing anything about their testing method, potentially including SA, TA, and Feint, and determined that TH+ beyond 8 probably helps.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

People did some math and determined that TH+ beyond 8 probably doesn't help.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/5...-14/7/#3688782

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so what about changing gear from tag mode like for example changing from th8 to melee with no th to fight?

Staying in TH5 gear gives a higher upgrade chance than removing it.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

People did some math and determined that TH+ beyond 8 probably doesn't help.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/5...-14/7/#3688782

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I don't see this data using Feint or Sneak attack at all, or even weapon skills for this matter.

Again, going back to "Enemies who need more damage will see THF using more optimal gear outside of TH gear" and "Enemies who are capable of being procced easier will die faster"

but.. anyone who pushes THF to the limits isn't going to be undergeared or restricted in terms of options in the first place.

So it just goes back to "are you going to just toss on TH and forget about it" or "are you going to maximize your potential as a THF"

Anyone trying to proc, say a pulse weapon from Meeble burrows, which is where this information becomes important, will be using as much feint, SA, and possibly even WS's with removed gear that is without TH on it will benefit.

I personally have gotten around 10 pulse weapons from Meeble burrows, and this is where I really utilize Feint, SA, and timed WS, with maximum TH values.

Even with Maiden of the Dusk HTMB, I like to optimize my TH-vs-survival options.

So again, this "Data" presented here is not really valuable. No well respectable THF is going to just auto attack and never use Feint, Sneak attack or any WS to proc TH, while using TH14+ total on their character.

If this is how you want to play THF, all the power to you, but the optimal way to get the most from Treasure Hunter is not to just toss on TH5 armor as THF, and just auto attack..

The optimal way to play THF, and maximize TH, is to be master THF, and perfectly balance your TH-vs-survival rate, and proc properly using bully, Feint, Sneak attack, trick attack, and Weaponskills accordingly.

I disagree that the data is not valuable. I don't think SA, TA, Feint, etc really make a difference in what the testing is trying to prove. Using Sneak Attack isn't going to make TH+ gear beyond +5 suddenly work or not work. They weren't trying to figure out the optimal playstyle, just determine if gear beyond +5 makes a difference.

Sneak attack has a much higher rate to proc Treasure Hunter, than just a melee attack.

If TH gear creates a greater rate of success to proc (which is factually does as mentioned by a Square-Enix representative) then it will be further reflected when coupled with Sneak Attack.

Add this to all the other abilities, and you will see a greater difference, and a higher value for treasure Hunter gear.

I’m really starting to believe you either extremely dislike THF, TH gear, or some other personal issue, or you just like to argue.

I find it quite odd to be playing FFXI which is a game centered around collecting equipment for specific tasks, and saying TH gear has no value, when it has been proven by Square-Enix, the developer of FFXI, that it in fact has value, and increased the rate.

I don’t even know how this is a debate, it’s already been proven.

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Originally Posted by Dihlyte

Sneak attack has a much higher rate to proc Treasure Hunter, than just a melee attack.

If TH gear creates a greater rate of success to proc (which is factually does as mentioned by a Square-Enix representative) then it will be further reflected when coupled with Sneak Attack.

Add this to all the other abilities, and you will see a greater difference, and a higher value for treasure Hunter gear.

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I never said otherwise. The data doesn't test SA/TA/Feint because that stuff is already proven to be true. Why would they re-examine it? That's not what they're trying to prove.

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I’m really starting to believe you either extremely dislike THF, TH gear, or some other personal issue, or you just like to argue.

I find it quite odd to be playing FFXI which is a game centered around collecting equipment for specific tasks, and saying TH gear has no value, when it has been proven by Square-Enix, the developer of FFXI, that it in fact has value, and increased the rate.

I don’t even know how this is a debate, it’s already been proven.

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Maybe you need to re-read what I've said because I've been pragmatic about this the entire time. Nothing has been said with any emotion or ulterior motive around it. Someone asked a question and I'm answering it with the best information the community has at the moment.

Who said TH gear has no value? You're putting words into my mouth. Almost all stats have invisible caps that the game doesn't explicitly state(enmity+/-, cure potency, DT, etc). Treasure Hunter is no different, except that the devs have told us (outside the game) that TH beyond 8 has no effect. You aren't wrong in saying their statement is ambiguous about whether that applies only to the initial application (first hit) or to the upgrade (proc) rate. It very much IS ambiguous because, among other things, the community reps don't always understand the game, and they have to interpret from statements made in Japanese. That ambiguity is what that thread is trying to clear up, and they determined that with their limited testing, going beyond TH+5 in gear probably doesn't have any effect. If you have your own testing data, aside from your chart that you admit isn't actually accurate, please share it, I'm sure the mathemagicians would love to see it.

And you know what? This still means that you need two pieces of TH+ gear equipped to hit that cap, which leaves a bunch of different gear slots to theorycraft around to figure out the optimal way to play THF. THF being one of my favorite jobs btw.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

I never said otherwise.

Who said TH gear has no value?

except that the devs have told us (outside the game) that TH beyond 8 has no effect.

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You did say otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

It's 3+5. Anything more than TH8 in traits/gear combined is pointless.

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You said TH gear has no value above TH5 on gear, which is not 14, and factually per the FFXI developer, anything below TH11 on gear has a reduced rate to proc.

And I already quoted, and will quote again, the devs have said anything below TH 14 has a reduced rate of procing.

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Originally Posted by Camate

…when the value of Treasure Hunter placed on a monster and the value of the Treasure Hunter on your character are different, this will cause the growth rate to vary.

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This conversation is proving entirely unfruitful.

If you personally do not want to use TH11 then that is fine, but to keep insisting that anything below TH11 does not have a reduced rate is not compliant with the facts made public knowledge by a SE representative, and clearly implied by the development team who has released a significant amount of equipment to properly reach this TH11 value.

So you're still putting words into my mouth, got it. Stop with the personal attacks then.

What part of that statement references TH14, TH8, TH+5 or anything about the cap? It doesn't. You are making up information that isn't there. Camate's quote does not say that the upgrade rate bypasses the cap or even mention the cap.

You are almost certainly wrong. I can't tell you to stop lying to people until you have some kind of testing data, but I can provide links to the data that likely proves you wrong. You want me to stop saying that TH+5 is the most you need? Give me some data and I'll edit every post about the topic to remove anything that's proven or strongly suggests that it's wrong. A quote from a community rep is not data. Show me numbers. You're trying to assert something, the burden of proof is on you, especially when there's data to prove you otherwise and you're the only person who claims the data is wrong.

If you want to TP in TH+26 (why stop at 14? nothing says that's the cap) or whatever, go for it, but if I see people asking this question, I'm always going to link to the actual, factual data.

I will admit that I was wrong about one thing. I said that equipping TH+5 requires at least 2 pieces of gear. That was wrong, TH+5 can be obtained in a single piece, Skulker's poulaines +3.

ok this is not a perfect test but i did try th14 in dynamis 1x and i didnt get but like 5 drops in 10 minutes it might have been because its random, might have been the day but with th8 i got like 90. so its possible that the th14 gets rarer drops or less drop in total or maybe it was the randomness of the day. you guys dont have to fight over this its all random so theres no proof of anything other than what devs said 15 years ago. also it could have changed since that. i have noticed before when i had th11 total i was getting more 100 pieces and less stones but it could have been a random day as well.